Remove speed limit from Motorways:

Neewbie_noob

Sorry mods if this has been done before:

As a driver, I find it very frustrating to drive behind slow drivers, even on a regional or national road, when the speed limit is 60 or 80 and the person is doing 10 or 15 below the limit. I think that slow driving causes more accidents than fast driving. It should be a rule that if someone is going 10 kph below the limit (and conditions don't call for that) and there are 5 or more cars behind, then it should warrant a 2-penalty point offence.

Don't get me started on motorways though. People doing < speed limit really grinds my gears (pun intended), especially when they do it in the passing lane, and remain completely oblivious to this even when they are flashed from behind. This should be a 4-point offence, or a driving-ban.

Speeds of 120 are too restrictive on motorways, the speed limit should be a tonne (160 kph) in the left hand lane and none in the right hand lane. This is all well and good in an ideal world, but even if there was no speed limit on the motorway * you'd still have the usual drivers, that you get on Irish roads, ie, hogging a good lane with a mile of cars behind them

Discuss

*German style Autobahns, digital speed limits, constantly updated depending on traffic and weather etc.

dgt

What would be the point, sure the M1 is Ireland's autobahn as it is, modern day Naas dual carraige way...

Neewbie_noob

dgt wrote: »

sure the M1 is Ireland's autobahn as it is

Do people ignore speed limit on that ???

For those of you who advocate keeping the speed limit, do you think 120 is OK, too lenient or too strict ??? If you are in favour of keeping the speed limit, do you at least think it should be raised. Would I get more responses if this was moved to AH?

Iwannahurl

Neewbie_noob wrote: »

I think that slow driving causes more accidents than fast driving.

Before I cast my vote can you provide any solid authoritative evidence for that claim?

That might point me in the right direction, voting-wise.

catchup

Why are you in such a hurry?

I don't see any reason to change things. You might get to your destination 15 minutes early. Is it the end of the world if you don't? Speed limits around the world are there for a reason. Changing the speed limit doesn't make for better drivers. What is what is needed is better driver education, not allowing idiots to drive faster.

msg11

Are you mad ! I'm not joking, removing the limit on any motorway is going to end up with people killed, from people thinking they are rally drivers to the people who cannot hold 80 in a 120 zone are just dangourous. We don't need drivers who do so in an unrestricted zone with drivers doing 180-200 then little Betty in her Micra going 80 in the fast lane.

When people learn to drive properly then consider removing the limits or even when laws are enforced driving wise.

glic71rods46t0

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Before I cast my vote can you provide any solid authoritative evidence for that claim?

That might point me in the right direction, voting-wise.

Re-read his post - he stated his opinion, not a fact.
I'm not sure solid authoritative evidence would be of much use to you if you don't read things very well:rolleyes:

Chuck Stone

We need the speed limits precisely because of the fuck-wits who waft along the Motorways at 65KPH and have no realisation that reality continues to exist behind their forward facing field of vision.

Supergurrier

If 120km/ph isn't fast enough leave 10-15 minutes earlier

awec

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TestTransmission

Neewbie_noob wrote: »

the speed limit should be a tonne (160 kph) in the left hand lane and none in the right hand lane.

Discuss

Carnage, that's what.

corktina

we need speed limits as so many of our drivers are so bad at it and also because the faster you go, the more fuel is wasted and the more pollution created.
Also if you put the limit at 160km/h, then you'll find a number of people doing 200. No, i think he limit is about right.

awec

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Lantus

catchup wrote: »

Why are you in such a hurry?

I don't see any reason to change things. You might get to your destination 15 minutes early. Is it the end of the world if you don't? Speed limits around the world are there for a reason. Changing the speed limit doesn't make for better drivers. What is what is needed is better driver education, not allowing idiots to drive faster.

Agreed, most of the problems are drivers who see the road as some sort of right they have to get to A to B and be dammed those who get in the way.

even if you were to tank it down the M1 at 160 you hit traffic and lights and junction at some point and your overall journey time is little better for all the angst and frustration and fuel used not to mention the increased blood pressure of screaming at cars.

There should be some better education especially on motorways but 10kmh below the speed limit? The better drivers will typically run their engines at reduced speeds for better efficiency.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

TestTransmission wrote: »

Carnage, that's what.

exactly.

lads in their poxy suped up civics and micras trying to reach top speed only to be throwing off by a cross wind and straight into another car or barrier

or going aroind a bend too fast and meeting a slower moving vehicle.

if I might add I do believe in a minimium speed limit for m'ways. if you can't do a decent speed because of your car or your afraid to then you shouldn't be on it in the first place.

again it's all down to proper motorway training that we don't have

Victor

Neewbie_noob wrote: »

the speed limit should be a tonne (160 kph) in the left hand lane and none in the right hand lane.

And trucks that are limited to 80km/h?

Iwannahurl

hwsei40r5g7lab wrote: »

Re-read his post - he stated his opinion, not a fact.

Exactly. And it's a bullsh:t opinion.

Lawless2k12

If they raise the limit then they should raise it to 130kmh at the most! Anything further is a hazard. No limits= idiots testing out their high powered machines doing 200+kmh then they suddenly lose control, tyre pops, smash into some dope doing 60 in the fast lane. Some other ape ends up bombing it along at 200kmh, can't stop for the crash in time and ends up smashing into both cars and before too long we have a massive pile up with a dozen lying dead on the road. In reality we cannot handle high speeds as much as we like to think we can. Especially if a fault occurs and a wheel pops off or tyre explodes and the your up sh*t creek without a paddle.

Tbh 120 is fine in my opinion. I just think that if everyone gave themselves time to get to where ever they are going we'd all be grand, and if everyone started doing the full speed limit then that'd be great! No need for overtaking at all then!

I also believe a threshold of 30kmh above the limit on all limits from 80kmh upwards should be imposed where the driver should lose his licence for 3 months should he exceed the limit by 31kmh or more. And for every 10kmh above that, an extra 2 months should be added on. Eg: Your caught doing 181kmh down the motorway, you're slapped with a nice fine and 9 months off the road. 2nd offences carry double penalties, 3rd offence warrants a minimum 3 years of the road because you're just an accident waiting to happen!

awec

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Iwannahurl

awec wrote: »

I also don't get the obsession with the autobahn. Only some of the Autobahn network has no speed limit. It's not the free-for-all that people think.

Just as a matter of interest, are there any data regarding the average/85th Percentile/top speeds on the non speed limited sections of Autobahn?

awec

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challengemaster

awec wrote: »

I also don't get the obsession with the autobahn. Only some of the Autobahn network has no speed limit. It's not the free-for-all that people think.

Same obsession there used to predominantly be with the legality of weed in the netherlands. When something is illegal in most places, the exception becomes to go-to for arguments/discussion.

I think where the general autobahn side of the argument falls down, is you never hear WHY it's good, or even using it as a proof of concept - (it's been shown to work fine in X under certain circumstances), rather it's just used as a "But they have it why can't we" excuse.

I haven't yet been to germany / driven on the autobahn, but from what I've heard (even on here), Irish motorways are probably of better standards than some of the unrestricted parts of the autobahn.

And there's plenty of drivers more than capable of driving safely at 160kph on back roads, never mind motorways. It's the ones that aren't capable of even driving at current limits safely that are the issue.

I think the option of a driving lane with limit, and outermost overtaking lane being unrestricted or having a higher limit makes the most sense. It would just need proper enforcement to work right. And better education.

glic71rods46t0

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Exactly. And it's a bullsh:t opinion.

So you already had your own opinion made up then but you don't think that others are allowed to have an opinion you dont believe in???? (rhetorical question btw - just in case you're still having trouble reading!)

awec

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Iwannahurl

hwsei40r5g7lab wrote: »

So you already had your own opinion made up then but you don't think that others are allowed to have an opinion you dont believe in???? (rhetorical question btw - just in case you're still having trouble reading!)

Nope. Not opinion, evidence.

Here's a thread linking to a bunch of studies showing why the slow = dangerous notion is a fallacy: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056754101

RobAMerc

until Irish people learn to drive correctly I'm afraid I'm going to go with speed limits on both. the standard of driving here is far to low to allow for higher.
I've driven abroad extensively and the standards are far higher than here ( although the mentality seems to be insane in some ) and ability is also on a level we'll never achieve.

bazz26

These threads are gas and there seems to lots of them here recently. The new obsession seems to be with speed, the need to get places as quickly as possible and sod everyone else because my busy life is more important than everyone elses, makes for some sad reading.

I see it everyday on the roads. Seems lots of people are taking their own life's frustrations out on other road users when they get behind the wheel through tailgating, bullying and attempted intimidation.

If someone isn't going fast enough for you then go around them when it is safe to do so but I bet there will be someone else out there who thinks the same about you.

OldmanMondeo

Picture this, Subura Impreza WRX, belting along a motorway at top speed 180+ kph(?), way out in front is little Nissan Micra nipping along at 120kph and decides to over take a car in front and BANG!

I vote no..

Chris_Heilong

I think the driving lane should remain the same but the over taking lane should have no limit, it makes sense to over take as fast as possible and return to the driving lane as this would be the safest manner, I already use this system.

awec

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Wexfordian

Neewbie_noob wrote: »

...It should be a rule that if someone is going 10 kph below the limit.....

Of course it will need to be taken into account that speedometers are always calibrated slightly high and therefore a certain tolerance built into the rules, plus the fact that speed cameras are never accurate so that needs to be taken into account.Probably good for maybe 20kph or so to be sure no-one is getting unfairly punished (after all, these are penalty points and the driver might be an innocent plumber with 12 kids to look after).

And of course the lower limit shouldn't really apply if there is no-one about and after all I'm a grand safe driver at 50kph, so the Gardai would be better off chasing people on phones, or doing their make up or anyone that isn't me basically.

It must be noted though that if you are going to put in a lower limit someone will have to monitor it, probably some busybody outsourced bunch looking for a profit. To be fair these busybodies would need to drive HUGE vans, be painted florescent pink and have a large neon sign on the roof saying "Yoo-hoo, we are here" and only be allowed to exist between flashing signs saying either vacant or engaged. Also the sites need to be published daily in every national paper. And by preference be in Canada.

And woe betide them if they pick a spot where there hasn't been at least 12 deaths that week from excessively slow speed. Because everyone know that slow speed doesn't kill anyone, its the sudden acceleration. Or something.

Otherwise I'm all for it.

Big Nasty

Are you nuts OP? In this country?

The Autobhan is one thing in a country with an excellent transport network where people are properly trained how to drive but in this country where the most difficult thing in a drivers test is a three point turn and our first motorway is only open 15 years it's is a complete no-no.

Unfortunately a strong percentage of people in this country have no idea of proper lane discipline so any rise in speed limits would only add to the disaster of driving on motorways in Ireland.

Markcheese

And there's plenty of drivers more than capable of driving safely at 160kph on back roads, never mind motorways. It's the ones that aren't capable of even driving at current limits safely that are the issue.


There's plenty of lads think that .... Plenty ended up in ditches... If they were the only cars on that road (no pedestrians, animals,tractors ect) grand but they're not... And same on our two lane motorways, trucks going 80 kph, cars doing 100 , me doing 120/125 , and some spanner trying to do 160 /180 ... na...

I honestly think half of the back roads with a limit of 80 kph should be dropped to 60 ... And tend to drive them at 60

Eric Cartman

its a lovely concept , but most irish drivers cant even handle the 100km target they get on the m50.

If we had decent driver education then id be all for it, until then its a torrent of people driving slowly in poorly maintained cars on dirt cheap tyres going slowly and thats how it should stay.

Colonel Sanders

All things being equal I'd be in favour of a rise to 140. However all things aren't equal. No way would I raise speed limits when standards are so poor

As an aside I remember someone from the NRA on the radio not long ago saying legislation was there already to raise motorway limits to 130 if the powers that be decided to. Is that true?

GE90

Any body can drive at 160km/h + on the motor way in a decent car its easy. But if someting goes wrong you need split second reactions in order to avoid a serious crash. The average irish driver just isnt up to the standard to drive at these speeds.

Also the condition of some peoples cars are just terriable. Can you imagine the typical irish driver driving along a wet motorway doing 160 Km/h with bald tyres !:-o

I remember reading that the irish motorways where build to take cars traveling at 160 km/h. If this is so then whoever designed these so called compact junctions with a sharp 90 degree bend straight after leaving lane 1 and less then 100m to build up speed to merge should be shot. They are dangerous at 120km/h never mind 160km/h.

pred racer

Id like to see the limit on the outside lane increased. For 2 reasons.

1i could call it the fast lane without pedantic cnuts getting their panties in a wad:D

2. No more "im doing the speed limit, so I can drive in this lane and sure why would I move i'm policing your speed" I doubt these **** would drive at 160

I reckon 150 -160 would be about right.

Not gonna happen though, dont people know that speed kills:eek::pac:

Btw I have driven on the autobahn, and I would agree that 140km seemed about average on the unrestricted sections.

awec

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Big Nasty

GE90 wrote: »

I remember reading that the irish motorways where build to take cars traveling at 160 km/h. If this is so then whoever designed these so called compact junctions with a sharp 90 degree bend straight after leaving lane 1 and less then 100m to build up speed to merge should be shot. They are dangerous at 120km/h never mind 160km/h.

The condition of Irish motorways is very good if not excellent seeing as most of them have only been constructed in the last ten years. I have driven all over Europe and the US and you would want to see some of the tight curves on exits, especially in Belgium and Germany if you think Irish exits are sharp.

Spiritual

Thank Goodness I have nothing in my life that is that important that I need to drive at 160kmh.
I am sure the important people in my life would also prefer I didn't drive at that speed.

Blazer

I often travel at 160kph on the motorway but it's extremely rare now.
Even have done 200kph once or twice but only to push the car now and then.
Nowadays I just put the cc on for about 125kph and settle in.
As much as I speed it would be ridiculous to introduce no speed limits on the motorways.
I was talking to a mate from Germany and he was saying the autobahn is all well and good...but when there's a crash..you're talking multiple cars and a lot of fatalies at those speeds.
There's an average of 850 people killed each year on the autobahn...remember that.

catchup

challengemaster wrote: »

I haven't yet been to germany / driven on the autobahn, but from what I've heard (even on here), Irish motorways are probably of better standards than some of the unrestricted parts of the autobahn.

And there's plenty of drivers more than capable of driving safely at 160kph on back roads, never mind motorways. It's the ones that aren't capable of even driving at current limits safely that are the issue.

I think the option of a driving lane with limit, and outermost overtaking lane being unrestricted or having a higher limit makes the most sense. It would just need proper enforcement to work right. And better education.

I drive on the autobahns regularly and believe me when I say that Irish motorway habits if replicated in Germany would result in carnage. German drivers obey the basic rules of motorway driving. You can be doing 100kph or 200 kph and feel perfectly safe because you know what every other driver on the motorway in front of you will do as you approach them. They keep to the inside except when overtaking and when a faster car approached they move over. Simple.

GE90

awec wrote: »

I don't think that's true.

In any decent car it is easy. Their isnt much difference in driving at 160km/h than 120km/h in the fathers 2.0 diesel mondeo and thats not exactly the best car in the world.
I said it was easy i never said it was safe.

carefull now!

I don't think the roads are good enough to raise the limit, too many loose surfaces, pot holes, bad drainage.... Even without driver error a car could still veer off or burst a tyre. Has any1 seen the video of a ford focus crash at 100mph, its not pretty

Stheno

GE90 wrote: »

In any decent car it is easy. Their isnt much difference in driving at 160km/h than 120km/h in the fathers 2.0 diesel mondeo and thats not exactly the best car in the world.
I said it was easy i never said it was safe.

In terms of concentration though I find it takes a lot more effort to drive at 150/160 than it does at 120.

Your reaction time is reduced, so you really need to be focused on the road and everything going on around, more so than at 120. You are driving a third faster.

It's not so bad if the motorway is quiet but if you hit any sort of traffic you really need to concentrate.

I think going up to 130 would be ok to be honest, wouldn't want to see no speed limits.

bijapos

awec wrote: »

I also don't get the obsession with the autobahn. Only some of the Autobahn network has no speed limit. It's not the free-for-all that people think.

I've driven well over 150,000 km on German Autobahns having worked there for a good few years and IMO they are totally overrated. You rarely hit top speed, and even doing 160 km/h for a sustained time is possible on a couple of sections of 3 lane AB. Most of the AB network is two lanes or else so clogged up that you'll be happy to be doing an average speed of 120 km/h. To boot the road surface on AB's is generally poor and it's full of little green men (Polizei) who do actually give a sh1t that you are breaking the law and will fine you heavily accordingly.

Germans can be clueless drivers too, or else at the other end of the spectrum extraordinarily aggressive. Oh yeah, they are notorious for clogging up the overtaking lanes on two laned AB's as well.

Unlimited speeds on the AB are dangerous, more than once I've been doing over 220 km/h and 500m ahead a truck doing 88km/h decides to overtake another, which is a bit hairy to say the least.

I would support a move to 140 km/h here but only after a sustained campaign to improve motorway manners, in conjunction with proper policing of motorway driving, something which I don't see hapening anytime in the near future.

By the way, if you have an accident on a German AB and it can be proven that you were travelling in excess of 130 km/h when the incident started you are legally liable to an extent that a court will set out, even if you are not responsible yourself for the acccident.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, are there any data regarding the average/85th Percentile/top speeds on the non speed limited sections of Autobahn?

Long distances of 300 km plus, you will be doing well to average 140 km/h during the day. Best I ever did was Hamburg-Munich (800 km) in 4 hrs 40 mins at night. 10 km traffic jams on the motorway are common enough, 3-5 km jams are very common, average speed in a jam is about 10 km/h. Every major intersection and near every large town/city is limited to 120 km/h, they also have "smog prevention" days when it's reduced in some states to 90 or 100 km/h.

From working in France the average speed on a long distance journey there was a lot higher in my experience as the cops there tend to turn a blind eye up to 160 km/h.

Chris_Heilong

awec wrote: »

Why is that the safest manner to overtake?

Its safer because you are putting distance between yourself and the car on the left before moving left, common sense really. Imagine driving alone side a car doing 110 and you could only move at 120, then you would be side by side for far too long which is a dangerous situation to be in.

GE90

Stheno wrote: »

In terms of concentration though I find it takes a lot more effort to drive at 150/160 than it does at 120.

Your reaction time is reduced, so you really need to be focused on the road and everything going on around, more so than at 120. You are driving a third faster.

It's not so bad if the motorway is quiet but if you hit any sort of traffic you really need to concentrate.

I think going up to 130 would be ok to be honest, wouldn't want to see no speed limits.

i agree with every thing above.
What i ment was any decent car can easly do 160 km/h.

650Ginge

I am sick of these threads. 'I wanna drive as fast as I like and I have no concern if that isn't what you want to do'

Grow up!

Stheno

GE90 wrote: »

i agree with every thing above.
What i ment was any decent car can easly do 160 km/h.

define a decent car though? I know plenty of cars that are shaky enough at 120, can't imagine them hitting 160

Matt Simis

Id probably be happy with 140kph on at national level (and maybe some roads with higher limits), like the UK and Poland are bringing in. Realistically people do need targets, but I think the majority of people will continue to drive 100 to 110kph for fuel efficiency and general laziness reasons no matter the limit.

Its pretty clear that many drivers on our underused motorways are doing over 80mph anyhow, if so many people break the limit (with no negatives, statistically) then the limit should be revised. This was one of the reasons behind the UKs move (the other was slowness of travel has a national cost on business).


I think some of the posters in this thread are visualise the M50 or Naas national road route which have heavy traffic nearly always... the M3, the Galway interconnecting motorway and the M1 are virtually skeleton motorways. Freakishly quiet, you could easily do 160kph there no issues at all. And people do. The M3 is a toll road and if enough people dont use it then the government has to pay to make up the difference. Increasing the limit to 160 there off peak might make it more attractive over the 24hr period. Which would save everyone time and money.

Stheno wrote: »

define a decent car though? I know plenty of cars that are shaky enough at 120, can't imagine them hitting 160

Why ask him to define, just post a list of these rubbish at 120kph cars and you do one better! Any German car is spec'ed for Autobahn speeds and comes with Autobahn capable brakes. This is the major difference between "Euro" and US/ROW spec BMWs and Audi's, Euro brakes and lights are common upgrades in the US. The cars that can do these speeds safely have existed for 20years.

The 560SEC has a cool sticker on the fuel cap, it shows the PSI for the tyres at approx 120kph and it shows another PSI figure for above 160Kph travel. This is a 1987 car.