Is the student grant funding fair?

steddyeddy

Watching the frontline last night the issue was brought up about student funding. One of the points brought up is that some students might be getting the grant who dont really need it. One of the cases brought up by one of the local authorities was a student who had to be given the grant because "on paper" his parent's income was < 30,000 per annum, yet their parents had 250,000 plus in their back account.

As required of my personal input into this; I know students who're getting the grant yet should'nt be. It definatly happens. My personal view is that students who really need the grant shoul get and those and assests of the individuals should be looked at aswell.

With the students planning another (smaller than last years) protest on Monday this issue is going to increasingly featured in the media. What do people think about funding students in general. My view again would be reducing access to third level for lower socio economic groups potentially reduces overall quality of graduates (reducing the gene pool reduces the gene pool potential).

So guys what does everyone else think?

1ZRed

I know students who get the grant but have so much support from their parents they mostly piss and smoke it away, and I know a fair few student who really struggle to get through college and keep themselves going yet aren't entitled to any grant.

For the majority it really helps out and means they can get into 3rd level education, but I'm sick of people getting refused on the bases that 'on paper' you should be grand and don't need a grant, while never looking at other expenses or circumstances.

Fact of the matter is, it should be assessed and calls should be made for those who are deserving of them to get them, not some students that get it, don't work in college and drink and fuck it away. That doesn't help anyone out, and I think it's selfish when it means some people miss out.

steddyeddy

1ZRed wrote: »

I know students who get the grant but have so much support from their parents they mostly piss and smoke it away, and I know a fair few student who really struggle to get through college and keep themselves going yet aren't entitled to any grant.

For the majority it really helps out and means they can get into 3rd level education, but I'm sick of people getting refused on the bases that 'on paper' you should be grand and don't need a grant, while never looking at other expenses or circumstances.

Fact of the matter is, it should be assessed and calls should be made for those who are deserving of them to get them, not some students that get it, don't work in college and drink and fuck it away. That doesn't help anyone out, and I think it's selfish when it means some people miss out.

Indeed on paper my cousins were'nt entitled to the grant. They went to private school. Their father and aunt very hard and got a second mortage to send their kids through education (I think the stress contributed to my uncle's cancer and death) and their kids didnt get the grant. They had very little savings because all their income went towards their kid's education. Yet people who have large amounts of savings got the grant because they were income poor "on paper".

1ZRed

steddyeddy wrote: »

Indeed on paper my cousin's were'nt entitled to the grant. They went to private school. Their father and aunt very hard and got a second mortage to send their kids through education (I think the stress contributed to my uncle's cancer and death) and their kids didnt get the grant. They had very little savings because all their income went towards their kid's education. Yet people who have large amounts of savings got the grant because they were income poor "on paper".

It doesn't seem to make sense, and sad thing is it's worse it's getting in terms of grants offered and the competitiveness of them, and I'd say it'll be years before they even factor in other circumstances.

Sure why would they? That'd be too much effort and bother and wouldn't be "efficient" enough for who ever makes that call of who gets the grant, I'm sure.

J_E

I didn't get the grant last year despite my family not being in good circumstances and my parents ended up pouring all their savings into my first year of college and I lived a very meagre lifestyle. Couldn't afford to go back this year. Meanwhile I see people who I know can afford the full tuition fees, let alone living costs, and still get the grant. The system is definitely flawed.

Max Power

Maybe if students spent as much time looking for a part time job as they do whinging about the grant they would be better off.

LoonyLovegood

There's some people who don't deserve the grant, and there's some who do. I did go to private school, but my grandfather stayed working so that I could go. I'm sitting typing this on my lunch break in college. I'm not sure if I'll be able to afford to come back after Christmas unless I get this. I'm living off savings at the moment.

Then I see people who get ****loads of money off their parents and are on the grant and I want to punch them.

steddyeddy

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Maybe if students spent as much time looking for a part time job as they do whinging about the grant they would be better off.

A lot of them who dont get the grant (and a lot who do) do look for jobs. It's also important to balance working and study.

steddyeddy

CTYIgirl wrote: »

There's some people who don't deserve the grant, and there's some who do. I did go to private school, but my grandfather stayed working so that I could go. I'm sitting typing this on my lunch break in college. I'm not sure if I'll be able to afford to come back after Christmas unless I get this. I'm living off savings at the moment.

Then I see people who get ****loads of money off their parents and are on the grant and I want to punch them.

Those are the ones I'm talking about. They get rent paid for and drinking money yet get the grant. One student proudly proclaims she's "living off mammy and daddy's money" which would be grand if she wasnt getting the grant!

1ZRed

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Maybe if students spent as much time looking for a part time job as they do whinging about the grant they would be better off.

Yeah that's so true and easy to do if you're a student in a 35+ hours a week with a lot of work to get done as well as trying to have some sort of down time and a life of your own.

And even if you're not in college the job front is desperate, and you have to account for your area and the work available there.

I found it desperate to get work and nobody wanted me because I hadn't enough experience but how do you think I could ever get it?

My sister used to have that same "just get a job" attitude with me until her work became so stressful and the working conditions became so bad she tried to find herself another one. Even with a 1.1 degree and about 5 years experience she realised its much easier said then done and ate her words. She's still in the same job because she couldn't find another one.

That bullshit idea that students are whiny wasters is an unfounded joke.

Casillas

When in University I saw people really struggle to survive, whilst waiting for the grant.

Others just drank it all..

The system isn't fair and grants don't always go to those who need them.

Myself - student loan and part-time job, got me through. Try getting either of those these days.

I don't think savings or investment should be taken into account. These are long term things and not something parents should be expected to dip into. If their regular income falls under a certain threshold then their children should be entitled to the grant.

steddyeddy

1ZRed wrote: »

Yeah that's so true and easy to do if you're a student in a 35+ hours a week with a lot of work to get done as well as trying to have some sort of down time and a life of your own.

And even if you're not in college the job front is desperate, and you have to account for your area and the work available there.

I found it desperate to get work and nobody wanted me because I hadn't enough experience but how do you think I could ever get it?

My sister used to have that same "just get a job" attitude with me until her work became so stressful and the working conditions became so bad she tried to find herself another one. Even with a 1.1 degree and about 5 years experience she realised its much easier said then done and ate her words. She's still in the same job because she couldn't find another one.

That bullshit idea that students are whiny wasters is an unfounded joke.

Plus a thousand. My studies are far far tougher than and job I ever had.

Death and Taxes

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Maybe if students spent as much time looking for a part time job as they do whinging about the grant they would be better off.

Says one who clearly either didn't attend collge or didn't need the grant!:mad:

AnonoBoy

It would seem a lot of students take the student grant for granted.

gutenberg

The grant is definitely in need of reform, and I definitely wouldn't want to see it taken away from people who really need it.

I also think that postgraduate funding from the student grant system should be scrapped. I know it has been substantially reduced already, but I don't see how it's fair that people continue to be supported into postgraduate study, where everyone is liable for fees; a person may do ok without a grant for their undergraduate course, but be completely unable to undertake postgraduate studies because this is when tuition fees kick in. Supporting people at bachelors degree level should take absolute priority, as getting people into college is the first crucial step, and then a system of postgraduate funding should be put in place based on merit.

LoonyLovegood

steddyeddy wrote: »

Those are the ones I'm talking about. They get rent paid for and drinking money yet get the grant. One student proudly proclaims she's "living off mammy and daddy's money" which would be grand if she wasnt getting the grant!

I know a fair few like that and it's so annoying. I was hoping to go out for a friends birthday tonight. My laptop needed a repair so that's not going to happen. I hate people saying students should get a job, it's gotten to the stage where I walked into a shop yesterday and the woman just said "I'm really sorry, we've no work going." Didn't even need to open my mouth.

sfwcork

WhenI was in college I couldnt get a grant.Both partents were working,nothing special but my mother is a public sector nurse

I lived with a mate.His father was a farmer nd had machinery.He had just arned 20k from a film he done and was given a full grant of over 350 quid .And that was years ago when 350 quid got you alot further

Pigwidgeon

I'm paying full fees this year in college, I'm entitled to the grant, my family is well within the limit, I'm actually under the threshold for the special rate but as my mum is not receiving any social welfare payments, we're automatically disqualified from getting the special rate. I worked all summer, saving every cent I earned to try and pay my fees so that I wouldn't be a burden on my parents. I've continued working part time throughout college, working on average 30 hours a week to try and fund myself. If I end up getting the grant it would make an unbelievable difference to me, it would mean I could cut back my hours in work and be able to focus on college more.

I know so many people who just blow their grant money, and even brag about spending their cheques within a number of days/weeks, when I use mine to last me throughout the year. I was talking to a girl in my course yesterday who said she didn't want to get a job, she was happy doing work experience because if she had a job she'd have to start paying for things herself and giving money up at home. I couldn't believe her attitude. My response was I've been working since I was 16, and haven't taken a cent off my parents, I'd much prefer my independence and not to put the strain on my mum, I'm old enough now to contribute. She needs to get a serious reality check.

sfwcork

I think a big issue is that the grant goes straight into the students bank account

theyre is zero control of it. I think they should pay the accomdation direct to ensure its spent on wht it should be.

The government will complain that its 1 too many transaction though

sfwcork

Nice attitude Pigwidgeon

Its a pity that around 10-20% of student have your attitude

steddyeddy

Sloan Proud Mourner wrote: »

I don't think savings or investment should be taken into account. These are long term things and not something parents should be expected to dip into. If their regular income falls under a certain threshold then their children should be entitled to the grant.

I dont see how thats fair. I made sacrifices to get into college and so should parents. The fact issue parents with high savings are getting the grant for their children and on top of that some parents dip into their savings anyway to pay for their kid's rent, food and education. Some students are using their grant as a top up to use for drinking ect.

So students are availing of their parent's saving and still getting a grant so I see no reason that the savings shouldnt be taken into account.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

I dont see how thats fair. I made sacrifices to get into college and so should parents. The fact issue parents with high savings are getting the grant for their children and on top of that some parents dip into their savings anyway to pay for their kid's rent, food and education. Some students are using their grant as a top up to use for drinking ect.

So students are availing of their parent's saving and still getting a grant so I see no reason that the savings shouldnt be taken into account.

I disagree, they can chose to dip into them if they want to make life that bit more comfortable for their children but getting the grant means they don't have to dip in as much or at all possibly. Just because someone has savings doesn't make it fair they have to use them all up and then maybe not have them down the line when they need them.

By the way myself or my sisters never got a cent of a grant during our undergrad degrees. Our money came from a combination of summer jobs and money from parents so I'm not a person who got a grant.

steddyeddy

Sloan Proud Mourner wrote: »

I disagree, they can chose to dip into them if they want to make life that bit more comfortable for their children but getting the grant means they don't have to dip in as much or at all possibly. Just because someone has savings doesn't make it fair they have to use them all up and then maybe not have them down the line when they need them.

By the way myself or my sisters never got a cent of a grant during our undergrad degrees. Our money came from a combination of summer jobs and money from parents so I'm not a person who got a grant.

I'm not talking about people who's savings are in danger of running out. Rather those with savings of over 200,000 say.

awec

What's the grant supposed to be for?

Louthdrog

Was at a 21st Saturday night and a friend arrived to the table with €170 worth of shots. I later found out that his new found wealth was due the student grant coming through for him the day before.
Made me fairly angry. My family lies just above the line for the grant "on paper" but it has taken an almighty effort from my parents, my granny and myself to get me into my final year of college. A grant would go a seriously long way.
Also remember a girl in my class proudly boasting that her grant in first year was used to pay off the remainder of the loan on her brand new volkswagon golf. Something really needs to change about it all.

Boombastic

Sloan Proud Mourner wrote: »

I don't think savings or investment should be taken into account. These are long term things and not something parents should be expected to dip into. If their regular income falls under a certain threshold then their children should be entitled to the grant.

What are these parent saving for that's more important than ensuring their child gets a good education and can complete third level?


Another house??

robman60

I'm not in college yet, but from my brother's experience I know it's not fair.

Some students on grants had about €110 per week for "living" (drinking) expenses between mammy and the grant, while my brother was scraping by on about €35 a week. Not a chance we're grant applicable due to parent's income, nor do I believe we should be, but I also feel the majority of others on grants shouldn't be getting them.

It also sickens me to see people getting the grant and then boasting "I'd say I was in about 5 hours this week, too hungover" or whatever. I genuinely did hear this from a lad who went on to fail his first year exams unsurprisingly.

woodchuck

Having a student grant system is fair. OUR student grant system is not fair. Like everything else in this country it needs a complete overhaul.

GAAman

Cydoniac wrote: »

I didn't get the grant last year despite my family not being in good circumstances and my parents ended up pouring all their savings into my first year of college and I lived a very meagre lifestyle. Couldn't afford to go back this year. Meanwhile I see people who I know can afford the full tuition fees, let alone living costs, and still get the grant. The system is definitely flawed.

Very similar situation myself a few years ago, I had to get a local TD's help along with threats of legal action and going to the papers to get a paltry half award while people in far better circumstances handed the full amount :mad:

Lyaiera

Boombastic wrote: »

What are these parent saving for that's more important than ensuring their child gets a good education and can complete third level?

Their retirement? Or should people work until they're dead?

Anyway, why should parents be expected to pay for another adult's education? Society should pay for it, it's a benefit to us all. I don't see why someone's parents should be expected to pay for a college education. And a college education (or further education) is pretty much expected these days. Once you're 18 you're owed nothing by your parents (unless you're still in secondary school, I think.) Anything between a person and their parents at that stage is an agreement between adults, not between a carer and their responsibility.