Bill Cullen

Peterdalkey

I, for one, am saddened to see Bill Cullen's financial woes. Love him or hate him and I know he generates strong emotions in many people, he along with the likes of Harry Crosbie certainly boosted the profile of Irish entrepreneurial endeavour into the mainstream of Irish life.

Did he spread his business interests too wide, with garages, hotel and the Europa Academy and then add in a pretty hectic media engagement? Was he just unlucky that his business sectors were all hit by the perfect economic storm of recent years?

I think his story is a great credit to him as a just-get-out-and-do-it kind of guy and just because things have turned against him now, that does not negate his past achievements. I sincerely hope he will pick himself up and come back with a new business in the future. Guys like him don't quit.

ted1

Well said, just hope all the small supliers are looked after.

kerryted

Ya i agree with that love him or hate him he tried hard ( The man that never made a mistake never made anything ) although i am not a big fan of bill, for me i don't like to see men in there 70s with dyed jet black hair there is something very false about it, but that's just me maybe i am old fashioned.

lucky john

I would really like to see him put this behind him and start again. He was to the forefront in promoting getting off your arse and making money by using your own smarts.
If he want to prove his own advice right he has to start again. Ok age is not on his side but he could have 15 good years left yet. I cant see him sitting back and waiting for the guy with the scythe anyway.

I think this is an example of the madness of the old bankruptcy laws here. I dont know where he is financially but if the worst happens he could get back to business a lot quicker now. When your over 70 thats important. Same goes for Sean Quinn. No matter what you think of these men, they are risk takers and wealth builders. Not just for themselves but for the hundereds that they employ.

Another question arises here as well. How do you build a business (no matter what size) over the years without risking losing it all in a downturn? And everyone can be sure to run in to a downturn at some stage in the cycle. A black swan can appear at any time.

Sean Gallagher had an artical in the Sunday Indo about Dubarry. They have survived by not borrowing any money. Profits fund expansion. Is this the way to do it?

Patcho

I see the Auctionhouse.ie website is taken down,is this still part of Bill's empire?

leonidas83

I dont think anyone disputes the work ethic or success that Bill Cullen stood for but I do think people found his self righteous & patronizing tone a little hard to take & for this reason are not overly saddened by his ultimate failure & bankruptcy.

He is a credit to someone who had nothing when he started out but unfortunately let his ego go to his head & started believing his own hype especially with regard to his role in the public eye. Doing shows like the frontline, apprentice & the late late didnt always cast him in the best light & although it garnered more attention for his business, it turned quite a few people off him & the Renault Franchise also. I cant imagine Renault being overly impressed either with the joke that was the apprentice & his role in it (show me Liathroidi, dont be spoofing me, etc.).

Mellio

No I cant say I am a big fan of his persona on the Apprentice, I find it repulsive a long with his side kick Jackie makes me cringe.

He has however created a good few jobs I am sure from the businesses he has set up and built up but infortuntaley a recession hits even the biggest of players like mentioned above in Sean Quinn.

Sean Quinn took on too much and gambled and lost his Insurance business and for Bill I just think he put his Eggs into the wrong Industries especially in recession where luxuries of New Cars and Hotels dwindle rapidly as people have less and spend less on both of these things.

HellFireClub

Personally I think he has been completely found out as a businessman, I know people in the motor industry in Ireland who were every bit as successful as him but who didn't lose the run of themselves. If he stuck to his core business operations instead of getting involved in all sorts of other shíte, like hotels and TV productions, etc, then he might still be in business.

I don't know what it is about the Sean Quinns, the Sean Gallaghers and the Bill Cullen's of this country but they all seem to have the same problem, no amount of money seems to be enough for any of them and they all seem to have big massive ego's that end up being their downfall.

I'd have more respect for the man running the corner shop who has been around the last 30 years and still running his small business, than for any of these big mouthy loo-laa's who seem to me to be obsessed with money.

kerryted

HellFireClub wrote: »

Personally I think he has been completely found out as a businessman, I know people in the motor industry in Ireland who were every bit as successful as him but who didn't lose the run of themselves. If he stuck to his core business operations instead of getting involved in all sorts of other shíte, like hotels and TV productions, etc, then he might still be in business.

I don't know what it is about the Sean Quinns, the Sean Gallaghers and the Bill Cullen's of this country but they all seem to have the same problem, no amount of money seems to be enough for any of them and they all seem to have big massive ego's that end up being their downfall.

I'd have more respect for the man running the corner shop who has been around the last 30 years and still running his small business, than for any of these big mouthy loo-laa's who seem to me to be obsessed with money.

I don't think Sean Quinn senior had a big ego all he wanted to do was own a bank when you were making a million a day like Sean Quinn was you would think the sky is the limit

galwayjohn89

I wouldn't be a fan of Bill at all. He came across as a bit of a stuck up prick on the apprentice. Not sure if it was just for the cameras but didnt like his attitude. It's funny because I like O'Learys attitude. I suppose its the reasons they act that way are different. O'Leary is purely for publicity.

RATM

I wouldn't be Bill's biggest fan either and that is not to take away from his many achievements.

I think he came from modest beginnings but he lost touch with his roots. His rant on the Frontline shouting down unemployed graduates and telling them to work for free showed many of us that he had long lost any sense of empathy with other peoples situation. A multi-millionaire telling those desperate for gainful employment over emigration that they should work for free doesn't sit well with me and I'm sure plenty others.

In many ways when you look back on it during all the times post 2008 that Bill was making TV appearances professing to be some sort of guru he was actually in financial trouble himself. He lobbied FF hard in its last year of rudderless leadership and got a reprieve with the scrappage scheme, a kind of bailout for the motor industry. It was only a temporary fix in the end and his business went under.

It is sad to see all the same. But there is a part of me that feels Bill believed his own hype, publicity went to his head and in many ways he was the architect of his own downfall.

micromary

Totally agree with other views. Yes it is great to see somebody start from nothing and do what he did. Full respect for the man in that way. However as in the last comment, he made a mistake losing touch with his roots, giving it loads on the Apprentice when he was in trouble himself and acting the prick on Frontline shouting down other people less fortunate to himself. That scene really angered me because it showed someone who was obviously out of touch with reality and was living in "bubble land".Therefore I don't feel sorry for what is happening to him at the moment to be honest. If and when he gets back he shud show a bit of humility. It will go a long way.

Peterdalkey

The responses so far have been very interesting in that the majority seem to accept and even admire his business acumen and hard work ethic, along with his amazing journey from inner city poverty to great prosperity.

It appears to me that his personal image portrayal/marketing are what have dominated people's views of him, even those who quite like him and what he has done/achieved. It does seem rather an odd trait for a guy who trades on being the super-salesman.

I threw in Harry Crosbie's name in the original post as it strikes me that they are similar in many ways and yet Harry draws little odium, more the opposite. He has a high public profile, loans in NAMA, and a somewhat similar background and great business achievements. Yet the difference seems to be that Harry is loveable in a way that people do not see Bill. I suppose it is only normal to be attracted to the nice guy personality, but could have such a profound effect on one's business career? Or is it just the curse of moving to guru status being a step too far?

It seems to me that when anyone goes passed the point where they swop their wish to be liked to espousing their own perceived correct path wisdom pronouncements and even intolerance, then they are on their own and seen as fair game. I expect Simon Cowell is a member of this club for similar reasons. The old adage thay you should be nice to people on the way up, as you may need them on the way down! is still as valid as ever.

I don't know Bill or Harry but I do wish them both a brighter future.

Chevy RV

RATM wrote: »

I wouldn't be Bill's biggest fan either and that is not to take away from his many achievements.

I think he came from modest beginnings but he lost touch with his roots. His rant on the Frontline shouting down unemployed graduates and telling them to work for free showed many of us that he had long lost any sense of empathy with other peoples situation. A multi-millionaire telling those desperate for gainful employment over emigration that they should work for free doesn't sit well with me and I'm sure plenty others.

In many ways when you look back on it during all the times post 2008 that Bill was making TV appearances professing to be some sort of guru he was actually in financial trouble himself. He lobbied FF hard in its last year of rudderless leadership and got a reprieve with the scrappage scheme, a kind of bailout for the motor industry. It was only a temporary fix in the end and his business went under.

It is sad to see all the same. But there is a part of me that feels Bill believed his own hype, publicity went to his head and in many ways he was the architect of his own downfall.

I read a recent article in the Independent that Bill owed €12m to 1 bank; €8m to a 2nd bank and claimed to be owed €20 odd million himself! He had also put €10m into his lossmaking hotel in Killarney. In the end he had 2 main garages in Dublin left plus a lossmaking hotel and owed over €20m to banks. What king of genius does that make him?

His problems on those scale as mentioned above didn't happen overnight - he must have been in trouble when he was lecturing the rest of us.

tipptom

I think the difference between Harry and Bill is Harry did not turn up on shows lecturing the rest of us and telling people that was put in impossible in impossible siuations to get up of their lazy behinds basically.I always equate Bill in those interviews with Seanie Fitzpatrick on Marian Finnucane lecturing the goverment on hitting social welfare while he had turned his bank in to s*it and had massive personal debts himself.
Admired Bills career up to when he got the nationwide franchise for renault which was a licience to print money,think he frittered it all away after that on his egotistical puchases and publicity.

kerryted

you could well see bill back again if he lives long enough, but at 70 he might just ride off in to the sun set and hopefully take Jackie with him I am sure they have a nice villa somewhere and wish them well . All this makes me respect Michael O Leary more and what he has achieved he stuck to what he knew and what he is good at and rarely gets involved in anything outside of his business. So Michael if by chance you ever read this take a bow.

Hanley

I'm enjoying some of these "what makes him such a genius" comments with relation to his debt.

Here's a funny one... He wouldn't have got to that level of debt without being a pretty f*cking good businessman. Yah, he made some atrocious decisions, but so did a large percentage of Ireland's richest men.

Read any successful entrepreneur's book - by and large, no one's ever got truly rich without having to risk losing a very substantial portion of it at some stage.

...and I REALLY don't like his TV persona or general attitude, but I at least respect what he's done.

Peterdalkey

kerryted wrote: »

you could well see bill back again if he lives long enough, but at 70 he might just ride off in to the sun set and hopefully take Jackie with him I am sure they have a nice villa somewhere and wish them well . All this makes me respect Michael O Leary more and what he has achieved he stuck to what he knew and what he is good at and rarely gets involved in anything outside of his business. So Michael if by chance you ever read this take a bow.

I agree Michael O'Leary is one of Ireland's greatest businessmen, but he is not by definition a entrepreneur in the classic sense. He is an employee of a company from which he made his money on richly deserved share option schemes. He did not start it up with his own or borrowed money but he certainly saved it and made a fabulous success of it.
He is also the perfect enigma that breaks all the rules, he could not give a toss what anyone thinks, his product is generally despised by his customers and they queue up for it in their tens of millions! Some Dude! I am a huge fan but I doubt I would fancy being an employee and avoid using it's services if at all possible. I have dipped in and out of it as a shareholder on occasion over the years and generally made a few bob. It is very well managed in many ways and they are one tough bunch to have as a customer. But hey when it comes to the down and dirty of business especially in this climate, the only measure is the bottom line numbers.
To compare Michael O'Leary and Bill Cullen is to compare apples and oranges! And bill knows his fruih!

Cheers

Peter

Dynacord

micromary wrote: »

Totally agree with other views. Yes it is great to see somebody start from nothing and do what he did. Full respect for the man in that way. However as in the last comment, he made a mistake losing touch with his roots, giving it loads on the Apprentice when he was in trouble himself and acting the prick on Frontline shouting down other people less fortunate to himself. That scene really angered me because it showed someone who was obviously out of touch with reality and was living in "bubble land".Therefore I don't feel sorry for what is happening to him at the moment to be honest. If and when he gets back he shud show a bit of humility. It will go a long way.

And so the real reason The Apprentice was discontinued emerges. Wasn't the lack of entrepreneurial talent in the country, it was the fall from grace of Lord Cullen.

gbee

Peterdalkey wrote: »

. Guys like him don't quit.

For all that, guys like him cannot exist today. Ben Dunne snr can't exist toady. Core values have changed by law, for that matter, Lord Sugar can't exist either, copywrite laws, intellectual property rights, street trading etc.

Don't quite, christ sake, [that's just a phrase] how old is he now, he made it, great, he won't make if any further, nearest thing is a retiring to being a chipper van owner. Don't mention ice cream coke vans.

lucky john

gbee wrote: »

For all that, guys like him cannot exist today. Ben Dunne snr can't exist toady. Core values have changed by law, for that matter, Lord Sugar can't exist either, copywrite laws, intellectual property rights, street trading etc.

Don't quite, christ sake, [that's just a phrase] how old is he now, he made it, great, he won't make if any further, nearest thing is a retiring to being a chipper van owner. Don't mention ice cream coke vans.

I think guys like the ones mentioned above will always exist. Ok maybe some routes to making it are closed off but others exist that were never thought of when Bill started up. Whats to stop him selling "apples and oranges" on line or through an App.

I know a guy here that lost his services business in the 80's. Aged 60+ he set up a little manufacturing business in his back yard. He did very well over the years but is struggling now again. He is well into his 80's now but I see him out around his place all the time doing a bit of work. Not a sign of him giving up.
I'll bet the country is full of guys like this. You won't see them on TV but they have reinvented themselves a few times over the years and carry on quietly.

smash

RATM wrote: »

I think he came from modest beginnings but he lost touch with his roots.

I'd be of the opposite opinion myself. Just look at him on the apprentice, he never moved with the times.

Conor was one lad that Bill thought was great, said he was a role model for young people.... The guy's 'business' was selling Christmas wreaths ffs. and there was another girl a few years back that Bill thought was great because she was "an inner city girl". Like that makes a difference to anything!

Last year he invested in Auctionhouse.ie just so he could offload stock that wasn't selling without going through established auction houses. That would never last considering the established auction houses were struggling too.

MidlandsM

Peterdalkey wrote: »

I agree Michael O'Leary is one of Ireland's greatest businessmen, but he is not by definition a entrepreneur in the classic sense. He is an employee of a company from which he made his money on richly deserved share option schemes.

hardly an employee in fairness, he's a major shareholder and ceo.

Peterdalkey

MidlandsM wrote: »

hardly an employee in fairness, he's a major shareholder and ceo.

I am afraid the facts are rather different. He is an employee, he is employed as CEO and is even entitled to a PAYE allowance as he is not a proprietory director, unlike most owners of SME companies. He has a very small overall shareholding in Ryanair in percentage terms <4%, (though worth a large sum). He has consistently sold down shares over the years and then gets new ones each year under the performance related share option scheme. And worth every penny in my view.


Cheers

Peter

PS: I think you can take it for certain that he has no personal guarantees on any Ryanair borrowings either!

Jawgap

I think the word missing from this discussion is 'hubris' - in Bill Cullen's case I think he started to believe his own publicity and forgot where he ended and the media image began.

I don't think it's fair to place him in the same class as Fitzpatrick.

Finally, I think you make money by sticking to the knitting - by sticking with what you're good at and don't make the mistake of thinking because you've succeeded in one business you've got some kind of midas touch that you can transfer in to any other venture.

Maybe it was a case that Cullen thought that just him being involved was enough to make a success of anything - you've yet to see Martin Naughton or Michael O'Leary make a similar mistake (on the scale of Cullen!)

DubTony

kerryted wrote: »

you could well see bill back again if he lives long enough, but at 70 he might just ride off in to the sun set and hopefully take Jackie with him I am sure they have a nice villa somewhere and wish them well . All this makes me respect Michael O Leary more and what he has achieved he stuck to what he knew and what he is good at and rarely gets involved in anything outside of his business. So Michael if by chance you ever read this take a bow.

O'Leary's getting too much credit. It should be noted that he's an employee of Ryanair. He didn't start it or buy it. He just works there.

Edit: Apologies, posted this before reading Peter's post.

More on O'Leary (sort of) Just saw this on Facebook.

The EURO PINT!

Michael O’Leary goes into a pub in Cork and asks for a pint of Guinness.
The barman nods and says: “That will be one euro”.
A pleased O’Leary hands over the money and comments: “That’s very cheap”.
“Yes sir, it is” replies the barman, “however, if you want
to drink the Guinness in a glass, you’ll have to pay an extra
€3”.
The Chief Executive scowls but pays up. He takes his drink goes towards a seat.
“Ah, sir, if you want to sit down, you’ll first have to sit in
this frame,” observes the barman.
Unfortunately O’Leary can’t squeeze into the frame. “Nobody
could fit in that little thing,” he complains.
“Then you’ll have to pay a surcharge of €5 for your seat,
sir”, cautions the barman.
“This is ridiculous,” cries O’Leary. “I want to see the manager”.
“Certainly sir”, responds the barman. “Here is his email
address or, if you wish, you can contact him between 9 and
9.10 any Monday morning. Calls are free until they are answered.
Then there is a talking charge of only 10 cents per
second.”
A furious O’Leary swears he’ll never come into this pub
again, to which the barman answers: “That’s perfectly O.K
sir, but remember we’re the only pub in Ireland selling pints
for one euro!”

rockbeast

smash wrote: »

Conor was one lad that Bill thought was great said he was a role model for young people.... The guy's 'business' was selling Christmas wreaths ffs. and there was another girl a few years back that Bill thought was great because she was "an inner city girl". Like that makes a difference to anything!

In all fairness Bill was investing/complimenting the person, not the product. It's gumption that Bill and his ilk are looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I have no time for the man as a result of how I have interpreted certain statements he's made over the last decade, but I do have a lot of time for has work ethic. Whatever you do in life; it's a people business. If Bill sought/seeks out certain types of people to work with it's because it's in his own interest.

If you read his AUTObiography you may notice the meetings/dealings with influential members of Fianna Fail throughout the years. I am of the opinion that these relationships were beneficial to Bill's business. If this is the case then I don't personally agree with said methods BUT...morals and integrity should have have no place in business if you adhere to the neoclassical view of capitalism - profit maximisation. Bill did what he did, dealt with who he had to deal with and let no one judge him for that.

Bill Cullen may or may not come back. It doesn't bother me either way. I ran my own business for 4 years, made a decent wedge. Employed 3 people. It came to an end. No money now but it was great while it lasted. Fail again, fail better. (BTW I left no creditors short...) Kudos to Mr Cullen for keeping it going so long.

As I type now I'm sure Bill is cultivating his next idea. We should probably all be doing the same...


RB (who should have gone to the FF tent at the Galway Races- D'oh!)

BTW If there was a thread dedicated to a certain MR. Crosbie I would have some very interesting things to say/post...

flutered

dan dooley from knocklong is in his 80s, still doing what he has all ways done, sell cars, also rent them at airports, no publicity, no tv appearence, he is at his desk before 9am, also he is not the first out the door at 6, with the garage closed on saturdays, he is still at his desk on saturday mornings, dan take a bow, or even two.

kerryted

Peterdalkey wrote: »

I agree Michael O'Leary is one of Ireland's greatest businessmen, but he is not by definition a entrepreneur in the classic sense. He is an employee of a company from which he made his money on richly deserved share option schemes. He did not start it up with his own or borrowed money but he certainly saved it and made a fabulous success of it.
He is also the perfect enigma that breaks all the rules, he could not give a toss what anyone thinks, his product is generally despised by his customers and they queue up for it in their tens of millions! Some Dude! I am a huge fan but I doubt I would fancy being an employee and avoid using it's services if at all possible. I have dipped in and out of it as a shareholder on occasion over the years and generally made a few bob. It is very well managed in many ways and they are one tough bunch to have as a customer. But hey when it comes to the down and dirty of business especially in this climate, the only measure is the bottom line numbers.
To compare Michael O'Leary and Bill Cullen is to compare apples and oranges! And bill knows his fruih!


Cheers

Peter

Ya point taken but he certainly has the money to become an entrepreneur over the last number of years and get involved in all the madness that got the rest of them in to trouble,AFAIK he likes his farming and pedigree cattle . I know a lad that done some work for him on the farm and he said he was a very sound and great to do work for.

DubTony

I've always been confused about the Bill Cullen "phenomenon". From what I can gather he was a guy who sold 2nd hand cars from a site in Tallaght, got a Ford franchise, and was in a position to take over the Renault franchise when Smiths went bang. He bought it for £1, and took on the debt.
The Renault franchise had been badly managed if I remember correctly, so it was really a no brainer. But it would have been hard to make a mess of it just as Renault improved their range and sales took off (this has more to do with the product than the marketing - look at the sales of Hyundai and Kia vehicles since their new ranges were introduced).
So realistically, Cullen didn't do any more than most of the entrepreneurs on this site have done. In my opinion the accomplishments of many current and past contributors to this forum outweigh anything Bill Cullen has done (I mean that in terms of volume of businesses started and run as opposed to the monetary gains we've heard about Cullen's business).
That's not to take away from his accomplishments. The lad done well. But I think his ability to promote himself was a bigger factor than his business acumen.
Compare his car sales business to that of MSL or even Windsor. It pales into insignificance. His other ventures, the hotel and the Europa Academy are hardly stratosphere reaching endeavours. Simply put, the man was a shopkeeper who became a wholesaler, and diversified into a couple of vanity projects. Hardly heroic.

I've come across two people in the last few years who knew him very well. One was a family member, the other a very senior employee. By all accounts Bill Cullen is not a man most of us would want to have anything to do with. Obviously I can't go into detail, but I believe that taking a job with him was akin to giving up your life and handing it over to The Glencullen Group.

I know he's big on personal development, and credits his success with his tough mental attitude. But he doesn't suffer fools and I got the impression that if you weren't "on his level" he didn't want to have a whole lot to do with you. Based on that, I feel even his self help ethos isn't quite where one would expect.

All in all, the only great thing I can see about him was he is good at getting his face out there and presenting the persona he's happy for everyone to see.

When I heard the news, my only thought was " another one bites the dust", which for me, put him in the same place as every other poor bastard who has to struggle these days. As a businessman? Meh! No better than average, really.

smash

rockbeast wrote: »

In all fairness Bill was investing/complimenting the person, not the product. It's gumption that Bill and his ilk are looking for.

No the last series. He was investing in a business.

Hanley

flutered wrote: »

dan dooley from knocklong is in his 80s, still doing what he has all ways done, sell cars, also rent them at airports, no publicity, no tv appearence, he is at his desk before 9am, also he is not the first out the door at 6, with the garage closed on saturdays, he is still at his desk on saturday mornings, dan take a bow, or even two.

Not to pick at hairs... but I wouldn't call that "successful". He works 6 days a week, 10+ hours a day. I'm sure he's making a fortune, but do that year around and you have to question ones quality of life.

rockbeast

smash wrote: »

No the last series. He was investing in a business.

Not at all. Bill liked the kid's attitude and was prepared to invest time/money in that. Spot before it's hot. That's how you make money. You should never invest in "a business". You invest in the people running said business.

RB

PS Said "christmas wreaths" will probably be more profitable that The Glencullen Group this year!

smash

rockbeast wrote: »

Not at all. Bill liked the kid's attitude and was prepared to invest time/money in that. Spot before it's hot. That's how you make money. You should never invest in "a business". You invest in the people running said business.

RB

PS Said "christmas wreaths" will probably be more profitable that The Glencullen Group this year!

Alan Sugar invested in a business where the guy was pretty poor at all tasks set to him, but the bottom line was that he had invented a product that was selling and his business was making money. The kid selling wreaths was noting special at all.

Scrag

It all comes back to one word GREED. Unfortunately it is a short way back to penny apples.

rockbeast

smash wrote: »

Alan Sugar invested in a business where the guy was pretty poor at all tasks set to him, but the bottom line was that he had invented a product that was selling and his business was making money. The kid selling wreaths was noting special at all.

The kid selling wreaths was a goldmine as far as sales are concerned. He was/is amiable, with a happy-go-lucky personality that will endear him to prospective buyers in most industries. As care sales or (most likely) used car sales go he would be perfect.

It's the get-out-of-bed-in-the-morning attitude that Bill wants. Not everyone. Bill. Bill was looking down the line and thinking what that kid could be like if he had a decent product/service(no renault jokes!) to sell.

Don't know the Alan Sugar reference so if you can link I'm happy to discuss.


But on face value of Alan Sugar's endeavour I'm sure his reasoning was that he would take the product and do the refinement/sales/marketing himself. Alan Sugar was investing in the idea and taking it to market in a way that would maximise exposure and potential revenue.Synergy.

Just to clarify for Smash; I quite certain that Alan Sugar invested in said business to the point of becoming a partner/major shareholder.

smash

rockbeast wrote: »

The kid selling wreaths was a goldmine as far as sales are concerned. He was/is amiable, with a happy-go-lucky personality that will endear him to prospective buyers in most industries. As care sales or (most likely) used car sales go he would be perfect.

It's the get-out-of-bed-in-the-morning attitude that Bill wants. Not everyone. Bill. Bill was looking down the line and thinking what that kid could be like if he had a decent product/service(no renault jokes!) to sell.

I found him quite jittery when communicating with people to be honest.

rockbeast wrote: »

Don't know the Alan Sugar reference so if you can link I'm happy to discuss.

But on face value of Alan Sugar's endeavour I'm sure his reasoning was that he would take the product and do the refinement/sales/marketing himself. Alan Sugar was investing in the idea and taking it to market in a way that would maximise exposure and potential revenue.Synergy.

The Alan Sugar one was quite interesting actually. The guy had a product that was selling well. He came on board the show with a different product and Sugar invested on him based on the original product and scrapped the new idea completely.

rockbeast wrote: »

ust to clarify for Smash; I quite certain that Alan Sugar invested in said business to the point of becoming a partner/major shareholder.

Of course he did. That's what Bill did with acutionhouse.ie too.

rockbeast

smash wrote: »

I found him quite jittery when communicating with people to be honest.

I think it would happen most of us with a camera in our face! The kid had a good aptitude for sales. I remember a good few years ago hiring for a sales team and the best two people that I took on were a 39 year old girl, Janice Dickinson lookalike, who was still awaiting her big modelling break and certain it was coming soon and a 61 year old man who dressed, spoke and acted like he was Roy Rodgers. They both had great (sales)personalities though. My boss was underwhelmed when I said I wanted them but very happy the next month and for many months after when he saw their sales figures.

I guess that Bill and I both have Sales-dar!

smash wrote: »

The Alan Sugar one was quite interesting actually. The guy had a product that was selling well. He came on board the show with a different product and Sugar invested on him based on the original product and scrapped the new idea completely.

That's the thing about "ideas" people. 99% of their ideas are cr4p. You have to encourage them to have 100 ideas and then have the ability to spot the good one.

smash wrote: »

Of course he did. That's what Bill did with acutionhouse.ie too.

Okay.? Will look into auctionhouse.ie. Is this though now defunct as a result of Bill's issues or something unrelated to Bill?

Just had a look at Eugene Heary's website. He's a go-getter. (There's no easy way of saying this but;)That's what Bill wanted to tap into.

daRobot

DubTony wrote: »

I've come across two people in the last few years who knew him very well. One was a family member, the other a very senior employee. By all accounts Bill Cullen is not a man most of us would want to have anything to do with.

Great assessment of him there Tony.

I also know people who know him a long long time, and to say he's not that nice a chap, would be quite the understatement.

S.Coltons2

I have the greatest respect for Bill and his legacy. I see him as a role model to the joe soap and I like his work ethic. HOWEVER, I have of recent years come to slightly see through the gaps of his-what was empire and his high glossy jobs to what really where a mundane culmination of businesses ran by people who had good business manners but where not necessarily recession proof and have the answers to everything.

I do believe he would not be in his position or as bad a situation if he had a different car franchise. Sadly the direction Renault in Ireland seems to be going is 'stack em high sell em cheap' which isn't sustainable. In doing so, Bill would've had alot of money tied up in purchasing cars and selling them on, often at a loss or with miniscule margin just to turn over stock, meet targets ect. The strategy of Renault was to make profit on aftersales and parts, not a strategy that suits someone who is cash strapped and needs funds now. When he lost the franchise, it was even quoted that his company was looking to explore different brands. I believe the large quantities he stocked up solely Renault would mean a transition to another brand very difficult.

It is only common sense to realise that there was likely a contentious relationship between Bill and Renault. He once owned it and got bought out of it to be left run his own dealerships, which effectively acted as an 'importer within an importer'. All of a sudden Renault themselves set up their own garage in Belgard which stopped Bill being the sole Dublin dealer of Renault. Bills ego and passion might of russled many feathers within the Renault Head boys I would say and they prob finally got sick of it and cut him of the franchise.He even used Ford in one of his episodes of the show.

Back to my point of him having money tied up in purchasing high volume cars. This was worsened by having the hotel and some property, all of which are capital intensive and require a constant flow of funds. Once one tap stops, it effects the whole ship greatly. Its sad to think that Joe Soap with a clean bank balance could now buy one of his remaining dealerships and turn it right around as there is brilliant potential and location ect. However credit and banks ect have Cullens name blacklisted and I personally can't see him turning his career around, although I'd love to see him do so.

His other Apprentice winners all went on to have successful careers so its nothing to be said against his staff. Afterall Steve Rayner has a main management position now in the Joe Duffy group which is a great progression. However, I imagine the reality of their 100k jobs was alot more mundane and alot more time consuming than all the glitz and glamour the media portrayed it as.

Anyway, despite my own personal views above, I still think Bill made the best decisions he could considering what he had and his circumstances. I have met the man and yes he is down to earth and sound to talk to and have a yarn. Like the show, we all have a demon in us when someone does something stupid that pisses us off. I have the height of respect for his positive attitude and work ethic.

gbee

S.Coltons2 wrote: »

I have the greatest respect for Bill

Bill was asleep then, by your own explanation, in some ways I'd prefer to hear he was a Ben Dunne, I hate that bastard drug and arms runner, but he had no apologies and sued the family for millions.

Bill, his rotten apples, really seem to be, really rotten apples, as in the apples as one sells on Morse Street

stepbar

Hanley wrote: »

I'm enjoying some of these "what makes him such a genius" comments with relation to his debt.

Here's a funny one... He wouldn't have got to that level of debt without being a pretty f*cking good businessman. Yah, he made some atrocious decisions, but so did a large percentage of Ireland's richest men.

I disagree. I wouldn't measure a businessman by the level of debt in his companies / personally... In all fairness, the banks were throwing out money back in the good days based on half baked business plans mainly secured by property... property... property. Some were lucky, others like Cullen weren't. Because he was able to convince some banker to part with cash doesn't make him a good businessman.

RainyDay

I wonder if Bill's beloved Jackie looked surprised when she heard the news that he had gone bust?

EIREHotspur

Why didn't anyone ever ask him why he needed a 43-room mansion when all he talked about were the Hard Days?

He was lucky with a Franchise for so long and thats where he made a lot of money.

Why do people with a lot of money and things going well have to overstretch and get involved in risky Business elsewhere.....it almost always ends in tears.

I have met very few successfull people in life that I could actually like.
They seemed to be "on" all the time and their whole personality was geared around their status.
They only seem to suit people who are like themselves.....plugged into their success need all the time.

smash

RainyDay wrote: »

I wonder if Bill's beloved Jackie looked surprised when she heard the news that he had gone bust?

She always looks surprised. Then again, botox does that to you.

Peterdalkey

Many of the posts focus variously on greed, arrogance, egotistical characteristics and even megalomania in relation to BC and other fallen high profile business people, and they may well be right.

I wonder sometimes if there is a parallel here with elite sportsmen and entrepreneurs, they win, then just need to keep winning, way past the point required for a nice comfortable life, it is their ultimate adrenaline rush. They are both by definition extremely competitive and dogged in their pursuit of winning, it is the only source of satisfaction. Perhaps too many have the same failure of not quitting while they are at the top, seen far too often in top flight sport. The wiser ones seem to step back from the fray with their dignity and security in place and often become the elder statesmen of their sports. Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer in golf, Jackie Stewart and Alain Prost in F1, the list goes on and on and yet they all still have profile and involvement in their beloved sports. Less examples spring to mind in Irish business other than Fergal Quinn moved to politics and TV shows, and Patrick Campbell of Bewleys who became an artist. Some of the US philanthropists like Andrew Carnegie and latterly guys like Chuck Feeney came to recognise the futility of chasing more, for the sake of more.


We should all be able to learn from the mistakes of others, even the Great and the Good!!


cheers


Peter

EIREHotspur

Those are great points Peter and I agree 100%.

Carnagie is a great study...also from my GFs home city.

The thing is if they put their obvious Talents into helping others once past the point of being comfortable they would be happier people.

Take what the experience of the Secret Millionaire did to John Fitzpatrick.
He seemed to gain a lot from stepping back from the affluent lifestyle in the US and doing something more Grass Roots.

I know it is too naieve to think that without them moving in Richer Circles they wouldn't be able to help or find the people willing to dip into their pockets.

When you reach a certain stage in life the real trappings of wealth means little anyway.

strandsman

Whenever you see these guys getting involved in TV or Radio shows it means they are on a slippery slope, They consider it free publicity for their business as well as a few extra bob. I'm thinking of Aer Arrann (cant think of his name) Dragons Den lads and Lassies. Certain developers who frequented the air ways with their wisdom, O' Brien's sandwich chain etc etc. If they were that successful then they would just concentrate on their business and not bother with a 30k a year media program or pop up in every show. There are numerous entrepreneurs in this country who would leave these guys in the dust and they don't crave the publicity

RATM

strandsman wrote: »

Whenever you see these guys getting involved in TV or Radio shows it means they are on a slippery slope, They consider it free publicity for their business as well as a few extra bob. I'm thinking of Aer Arrann (cant think of his name) Dragons Den lads and Lassies. Certain developers who frequented the air ways with their wisdom, O' Brien's sandwich chain etc etc. If they were that successful then they would just concentrate on their business and not bother with a 30k a year media program or pop up in every show. There are numerous entrepreneurs in this country who would leave these guys in the dust and they don't crave the publicity

I couldn't agree more. There are Irish entrepreneurs who have actually invented products & services that never before existed but they never get anywhere near as much publicity as someone like Bill or Harry Crosbie and other property developers. I'm not slagging Bill for selling cars or anything but I personally have more admiration for an entrepreneur who is an innovator and visionary and goes about re-inventing the wheel.

Take Jerry Kennelly for instance- he had the vision to set up a website for stock images that could be sold to media organisations around the world. He was one of the first to invent this concept and eventually got bought out by Getty Images for some €200 odd million.

Or Ray Nolan, founder of Hostelworld.com and Hostels.com. He cornered the market for hostel bookings with the site taking 10% of millions of hostel bookings. Again it is a global product with a truly global reach. He sold out of that for somewhere in the region of €500m and then went on to get involved with Skyscanner.net , probably the web's most used flight comparison site. again taking a commission from any flights books from links on their results pages- a huge moneyspinner.

In both instances the two mentioned above thought about the big picture and aimed for the stars with businesses that were targeted at a global audience. What Bill achieved is great and everything but I would have far more respect for the two above because of the way they set out by innovating a product. In doing so they became the market maker which meant that they had first mover advantage and were therefore more likely than others to dominate their space, which they duly did, generating billions in revenue along the way. In terms of revenue and profit the aforementioned duo out done Bill by a huge factor.

But if you ask the average Joe on the street who Jerry Kennelly and Ray Nolan are they most likely wouldn't have a clue. They just aren't/weren't celebrated anywhere near as much as Bill Cullen and others in the property game. I don't think it is because the two lads are media shy- Kennelly has popped up on the Late Late and Nolan has done the odd interview here and there. I think it is more to do with the Irish journalists having a bias towards things that they understand like bricks and mortar or cars. There are a lot of indigenous Irish companies in the technology and bio-pharma space who are punching well above their weight on a global stage but they only get a fraction of the coverage that someone like Bill Cullen does.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

It amazes me how many people take great pleasure watching people fall from grace from the comfort of their arm chair. Business is about risk and uncertainty at times. Yes sometimes people make the right calls and make money, sometimes they make the wrong calls and loose it all, sometimes an economy goes belly up and there is a knock on effect that the customers no longer have the money to pay for their products. While unsuccessful entrepreneurs might have debts - I would guess that if you took the total VAT, PRSI, Income and other taxes they have paid to the government over the good years the debts would be a fractional amount of the value they brought to this country (obviously banks and property guys excluded).

Pádraig Ó Céidigh (Aer Arann guy strandsman mentioned) is one of the top business men in Ireland. He's not on TV to try to make a few quid or his profile, he's a very modest guy and is only there because he believes in entrepreneurs and that by encouraging entrepreneurs to create jobs is the only way to get the country back on track.

From when I was a teenager through to this day, I studied these successful entrepreneurs and learn from their successes and their failures. I probably learn more from their failures if im honest and therefore even in failure society does benefit.

I've had the privledge of meeting Pádraig and many of the other high profile business people and nearly all of them are keen to give back. People like Pádraig are very generously sharing their advice and offering suggestions because often they have experienced the same problems in their careers.

Take Liam Casey, one of Ireland's few ultrapreneurs, in his first business he lost 75Million of investors funds when it went bust. The very next day, the largest investor of that consortium gave him a job. Now he has 3000+ employees worldwide and runs an epic business. I wish Ireland could have the same vision of entrepreneurs as in Silicon Valley where they truly understand that taking risk means there is a chance of failure and if that happens, it's a lesson - dust your self off and try to create some value again. Infact when he was successful, the investors made a lot more back than they lost on the first project.

I really believe the Irish attitude puts off people taking the leap to start businesses and to create jobs. It's ironic for people to blame people who fail due to the unprecedented recession and then make it as difficult for them to get back onto their feet again and create the jobs needed for a recovery, with the court of public opinion. Call them greedy if you like, maybe its true, but if they are willing to aim high and create as many jobs as necessary to realise that "greed", I'd rather they utilised their abilities rather than make just enough to be happy and become a tax exile.

MotteDai

Here here, I often enjoy reading the threads on here. Most of the time I don't reply as there are many more suitable commenters with more knowledge than I. However in this instance I must, I agree with the last reply, there's an attitude in general in this thread and in Ireland at the moment a'good enough for them' attitude. To be honest it's disappointing. these entrepreneurs took risks and kept taking them to succeed and grow their businesses. Along the way they earned money (sometimes a lot), but they created jobs, careers and avenues for others to develop and take home a wage.
Ill hold my hand up here and say I'm a business owner and have created tens of jobs in the past two years. I make an above average wage but very very modest. I work over 90-100 hours per week and yes I'm always 'on'. Sometimes the only thing that can protect you when you enter a room of people with loaded guns is your 'ego' which is the confidence within yourself that you can succeed. Remember those jobs depend on you. Also when many of them are asleep at night the entrepreneur maybe staring at the ceiling wondering how they can pull in the cash to cover the monthly salary bill. Also you get no relief from creditors, banks and the government are the most agressive, any delay on their money and the sheriff is on your back. Meanwhile if it all goes belly up, we owe redundancy and most of the people are still employable! However who wants to hire a failed entrepreneur? Oh and by the way there's no social welfare for me... So there's no safety net. There's a littiany I could go on with of other landmines, including HR, Legal, etc.. But I won't.
So why do it? Well because I can and because life's not all about money, creating jobs and succeeding because you seem to have a talent for it is worth it also you get to meet some great people and do cool projects.
I read BC's book and it was fun, full,of ego and well common since really. I'm sad it's gone south for him and I take my hat off to him for having created it in the first place. I can stay I know him but I bet it wasn't easy.
We need to care people. We're all in the same boat. I'd ather no one take a hit.