Yoga - The work of Satan.

GRMA

Yoga anyone?


When it comes to deliverance ministry, as far I can see, there is very little grey. As the Church tries to live with various pastoral difficulties and reach out and tolerate, when it comes to the spirit world, the demons tend not to be so pastoral in their approach and use every opportunity, regardless of intention, cause or situation, in order to take up residence. Many exorcists tend to be very black and white, certainly the ones I know, and I suppose this comes from having to work at the coal face knowing that pastoral niceties and subtleties don’t actually work when it comes to expelling a demon, only tough love and Christian integrity.

That is why, when a person is being exorcised, or in the process of deliverance, they will be urged to live a sound Christian life, adhering to the Commandments – in particular the moral teachings of the Church, and have to attend the sacraments regularly – Mass every Sunday (at least – daily Mass is often recommended) and frequent confession. Like a physical ailment, neglect to take the medicine and the condition will not only not heal, but in fact will probably get worse. In terms of deliverance ministry, if one refuses to begin living a virtuous life then the demon will borrow himself (or themselves if there is more than one) in even deeper. Hard things to hear, but experience has shown them to be true.

Why this reflection on deliverance? Well I am prompted by a recent news story about a priest in Southampton, Fr John Chandler, who has banned yoga classes from the parish hall. It goes without saying that the priest was absolutely correct: in charge of the property he has to ensure that no practices which are contrary to Catholic teaching go on there, and that is what yoga is.

Now I may have a load of apologists on to me telling me that yoga is perfectly okay, it is purely exercise and many people benefit from it. Well, people might like it, but does not mean it is sound. As for it being just an exercise, well we need to remember that posture in prayer and meditation is important: yogic exercises have significance for a particular occult practice and they cannot be divorced from it. Besides, when people practice yogic exercise there is a form of meditation and ritualistic breathing that goes with it and experience has taught that that opens people up to forces. As one of its apologists said in response to the priest’s actions: “yoga is spiritual, not religious”: there it is: can you hear the warning bells?

Yoga means “union” and it is orientated towards union with a force which some consider divine, and in that way achieve enlightenment. The exercises are not just there to keep you fit and make your muscles supple, or help you relax, they are a means of attaining this union. What we do with our bodies is significant – if I give someone the two fingers that sends a message – I might intend it to mean something different, but those who see the two fingers draw on the general understanding of the gesture and interpret it accordingly and correctly; I am the one who, in trying to reinvent the gesture, is mistaken, not them. So too with yoga – the exercises and positions send a message and the force they are designed to invite in interprets them as they are to be interpreted.

“But surely, Father, if we approach it intending it to be open to God, then it’s alright?” Well, no, you can approach a Ouija board intending to contact God and the angels, but that will not redeem it and the ones who contact you through it will not be God or the angels. There are some things which channel forces not of God and regardless of good intentions they cannot be transformed into instruments of God. Yoga is one of these, as is Reiki, Tarot Cards, fortune telling, “Psychics Live” and other New Age practices. And if anyone should doubt me, talk to an exorcist or someone involved in deliverance ministry and they will put you straight. Working at the coal face they deal with people who thought these practices were innocent, good, and they even benefited from them – for a while; but they opened a door and the forces they were dabbling with entered in, and soon enough they discovered that these forces were not as friendly as they first thought.

Dabbling in the occult is contrary to God’s law and Church teaching, not only can they not be redeemed, but in engaging in them one is in rebellion against God whether one realises it or not. The Lord will never bless such a rebellion, and so these instruments of the occult can never be used to come closer to God no more than one can say adultery can bring someone closer to their spouse.

So, if you are doing yoga, stop it and go to confession. If you are engaged in Reiki or other New Age practices, stop it! Well done to Fr Chandler; he had the courage to take on what is becoming a serious trend, even among Catholics, one which is producing disastrous results. Speaking just of Ireland, the few that are involved in deliverance ministry here are run off their feet dealing with cases, some of them pretty difficult, and many of them are the result of people practicing yoga, Reiki, fortune telling and other New Age practices. They do not have enough priests to deal with them (there only a few priests in Ireland working in this area). So pray for these dedicated people who work in silence at a hidden ministry which is demanding and dangerous.

http://www.fatherdirector.blogspot.ie/2012/10/yoga-anyone.html#comment-form

A Raw Nerve


It seems my post on yoga a week or so ago hit a raw nerve with some people - as expected. Some comments were left which were deeply insinuating, some from people who claim to be parishioners, questioning whether I should have contact with children. So far none of those claiming to be parishioners have come to me personally, but some identified themselves as practitioners of yoga. Indeed the tone of some of the comments seems to suggest a certain spirit is at work. I deleted the comments as is my right on my blog.

Being offended by what I said will not diminish the effects of yoga and other occult/New Age practices. It is a fact that exorcists working today, and in past, have to deal with people who have come under the influence of the evil one thanks to these practices. Throwing personal insults at me is not going to sanitise reality. Possession is a reality, and the suffering people endure when their lives are under the influence of the devil is real. To deny this, and to deny yoga and other occult practices can lead people into such situations is to wear rose-tinted glasses.

A couple of the objectors have said that they are going to report me to my bishop; well they can do so if they wish, the bishops need to know how serious this issue is and appoint more exorcists in Ireland to deal with what is a growing problem. And to let people know: if those who have practiced yoga and other occult practices, now need help, I can put them in touch with experienced exorcists who can assist them.

And to those who are no longer reading my blog because they did not like what I said: goodbye!

http://fatherdirector.blogspot.ie/2012/10/a-raw-nerve.html#comment-form


The above is from a catholic priests blog - I know him actually, he used to be my music teacher in school years ago - a very nice man.


But I have to say I was very taken aback by the above, reaction was that it was utter nonsense. Anyone have any views on what he says?

Sin City

Playing cards come from the occult too, but is the priest going to stop Benny playing a bit of soloitare or poker? I think not

Doc Farrell

If Satan is running the classes, he's a very flexible, centered Satan. Probably the same Satan that features in South Park.

homer911

There are lots of worldly distractions which can come between us and God - many of them much more subtle than Yoga

The fact, as I would see it, is that the church, as God's institution should be above reproach in all its activities. Clearly the church (in the broadest terms) in recent times has let itself down very badly, but that doesn't mean that putting it's house in order shouldn't start somewhere.

One could also view this as removing the splinter out of your neighbour's eye before removing the log from your own eye...

Great! Now boards is showing me ads for Chakra healing between the posts!

JimiTime

homer911 wrote: »

Great! Now boards Satan is showing me ads for Chakra healing between the posts!

FYP

JimiTime

Yoga means “union” and it is orientated towards union with a force which some consider divine, and in that way achieve enlightenment. The exercises are not just there to keep you fit and make your muscles supple, or help you relax, they are a means of attaining this union. What we do with our bodies is significant – if I give someone the two fingers that sends a message – I might intend it to mean something different, but those who see the two fingers draw on the general understanding of the gesture and interpret it accordingly and correctly; I am the one who, in trying to reinvent the gesture, is mistaken, not them.

*cough* Christmas *cough
*cough* Easter *cough*
*cough* Halloween *cough*

Must get me a packet of lockets

georgieporgy

I think most christians realise that yoga has its roots in hinduism and it would be wise not to get into it too much.http://www.relationalconcepts.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zaW-ry1zM9c%3D&tabid=73

JimiTime

georgieporgy wrote: »

I think most christians realise that yoga has its roots in hinduism and it would be wise not to get into it too much.http://www.relationalconcepts.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zaW-ry1zM9c%3D&tabid=73

Seriously, with that line of thinking, whats the difference between yoga and say, Christmas and its pagan origins and rituals?

Onesimus

JimiTime wrote: »

Seriously, with that line of thinking, whats the difference between yoga and say, Christmas and its pagan origins and rituals?

I don't know any Christians who practice paganism do you?

JimiTime

Onesimus wrote: »

I don't know any Christians who practice paganism do you?

Well if Saturnalia and all its paraphernalia and ritual can be 'Christianised' into Christmas by a simple rebranding of the rituals, why not Yoga?

reznov

Yoga is the devil's temptation.

STEER CLEAR IF YOU WANT SALVATION.

Onesimus

JimiTime wrote: »

Well if Saturnalia and all its paraphernalia and ritual can be 'Christianised' into Christmas by a simple rebranding of the rituals, why not Yoga?

What part of the catholic ritual is pagan?

lmaopml

I think it depends on who is teaching the 'Yoga'.

Taking part in physical stretching is fine - but that's 'physical stretching'.

If an instructor is essentially teaching Eastern Spirituality as part and parcel of the Yoga (which many do) and which is kind of centred on 'self' and oneness with the universe and all that.... or perhaps pan theistic tones alongside the stretching and motion, well obviously that's not so good for a Christian? Idolatory?

I did it once and found it very useful for toning up - but the instructor put me off when he started talking about connecting with the Earth etc.

There is such a thing as Christian meditation too though - We should 'Baptise' yoga methinks - stretching and meditating on Christ ? Hmmmm

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

I think it depends on who is teaching the 'Yoga'.

Taking part in physical stretching is fine - but that's 'physical stretching'.

If an instructor is essentially teaching Eastern Spirituality as part and parcel of the Yoga (which many do) and which is kind of centred on 'self' and oneness with the universe and all that.... or perhaps pan theistic tones alongside the stretching and motion, well obviously that's not so good for a Christian? Idolatory?

I did it once and found it very useful for toning up - but the instructor put me off when he started talking about connecting with the Earth etc.

There is such a thing as Christian meditation too though - We should 'Baptise' yoga methinks - stretching and meditating on Christ ? Hmmmm

Each stretch/motion in yoga is a stretch to a ''god'' of that religion. Thats like a Muslim coming to Church and doing prostrations before the Blessed Sacrament and saying ''I don't believe in the true presence, I just come here to tone up and get some exercise''.

JimiTime

Onesimus wrote: »

What part of the catholic ritual is pagan?

I said nothing about catholic ritual. I said the rituals around Christmas. The pagan origin of the the day selected, the giving of gifts on that day, decorating fir tree's, mistleto, yule log etc are things that immediately pop into my head. All these things are originated with dedications and festivities to other gods. So whats the difference between this and Yoga?

lmaopml

Plenty of sports teach stretching and balance. I cycle a lot, I sometimes pray while I'm at it. I run and pray too....Can 'Yoga' be separated from the spirituality connected with it's origin and merely be practiced as a form of keeping flexible and fit? I think some instructors already do this in the West? - mind you some really don't!

I did Tai Chi once too and Wado Ryu - the Tai Chi had a lot of Eastern spirituality in the sense of 'Chi' and that energy around the body..lol...it didn't really suit me in that sense - because I couldn't find mine The Wado didn't though.

Onesimus

JimiTime wrote: »

I said nothing about catholic ritual. I said the rituals around Christmas. The pagan origin of the the day selected, the giving of gifts on that day, decorating fir tree's, mistleto, yule log etc are things that immediately pop into my head. All these things are originated with dedications and festivities to other gods. So whats the difference between this and Yoga?

The day in it was done to Christianize the pagans, not the other way around. The giving of gifts symbolizes the gifts Jesus received from the three wise men. As for fir trees, I've yet to meet a Christian who worships a fir tree.

You have proposed a good question though, but for me Yoga is incompatible with the faith.

Zombrex

Onesimus wrote: »

As for fir trees, I've yet to meet a Christian who worships a fir tree.

How many Christians who go to Yoga class have turned Hindu?

JimiTime

Onesimus wrote: »

The day in it was done to Christianize the pagans, not the other way around. The giving of gifts symbolizes the gifts Jesus received from the three wise men. As for fir trees, I've yet to meet a Christian who worships a fir tree.

I understand the belief that pagan rituals were 'Christianised', but the reasoning is that while you are doing basically the same things that were dedicated to other gods, you are re-focussing on The Living God, at least thats how Its been explained to me. Now, if Yoga says that stretching up towards the sky is stretching up to Vishnu, but I simply believe I'm just stretching, or stretching to God or whatever, how is that different from taking a pagan ritual and just saying, 'I'm going to make it mean this instead of that'

You have proposed a good question though.

I concur of course

lmaopml

In fairness to the Father in question, he will be hammered for his comment - and he's actually quite a nice guy if it's the guy I'm thinking of on TV. Probably an unfortunate way of explaining himself? Having a bad day? Who doesn't?

I'm quite sure that there are some very 'Spiritual' elements that have got pagan undertones to them that Christians may do unwittingly when they take part, or get drawn into the physicality of Mind, Body, Spirit to the exclusion of God?... and in fairness very many New Age beliefs are based on perhaps an older and much wiser 'way' of being healthy all round, like Yoga -

Movements in and of themselves do very little, except keep you healthy - but it's the 'intent' behind them that I think counts in this sense.

However, Christians worship the one Trinitarian God, not a God in the Universe, or 'of' the universe. So I think the 'Satan' comment may be a little unfair as regards this much older than Hindu practice - Perhaps a healthy 'warning' would have sufficed?

Think Homeopathy, Reiki, the 'Secret' etc. some good things, some not so good! It's about discerning I guess.

philologos

Onesimus wrote: »

You have proposed a good question though, but for me Yoga is incompatible with the faith.

If you explain why it could be very helpful and some more might agree. It isn't enough to say you just do. Your posts could be more helpful to more people if you go the extra mile and explain why you think what you do more often.

Autonomous Cowherd

JimiTime wrote: »

Well if Saturnalia and all its paraphernalia and ritual can be 'Christianised' into Christmas by a simple rebranding of the rituals, why not Yoga?

I like what you are doing here, JimiTime, comparing and contrasting the work of Santa with that of Satan.....:)

As a yoga practitioner for nigh on 30 years and a teacher for the best part of 20, I will say that one does not have to adjust one's spiritual practice - eg. Christianity - if one practices Yoga. In essence by becoming still inwardly, by relaxing the mind, the deeper truths of ones own religion will become more illuminated and relevant. In the field of Yoga, however, as it has been imported to the west, there is a lot of New Age Psycho-babble out there, bull**** basically that muddies the water, and I do advise discretion when choosing classes. BS detector on full blast. The Sanatam Dharma (the perennial philosophy) does not demand adherence to any particular dogma. It is a path of self study. No bells, or crystals, or sunshine and lollipops psycho-pomp required...
Having said that Yoga practised sincerely - not just the leotard stuff- does lead to an opening of the mind to questioning many aspects of existence, and that includes the fairytales we have been fed since birth under the guise of religion. It is not that one has to reject any of the stories, but certainly to lift the veil and go behind the metaphors and seriously consider the important questions like Who Am I/Who is God/What is the meaning of life?

Sure...that does give some priests the heebie-jeebies.

Juza1973

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Having said that Yoga practised sincerely - not just the leotard stuff- does lead to an opening of the mind to questioning many aspects of existence, and that includes the fairytales we have been fed since birth under the guise of religion. It is not that one has to reject any of the stories, but certainly to lift the veil and go behind the metaphors and seriously consider the important questions like Who Am I/Who is God/What is the meaning of life?

Sure...that does give some priests the heebie-jeebies.

I'll take as a "stay out of Yoga if you want to stay a Christian". You might find it too much but salvation of the soul is of the outmost importance to me.

Gumbi

Juza1973 wrote: »

salvation of the soul is of the outmost importance to me.

Why???

Zombrex

Are those opposed to yoga sure it isn't this



rather than this



that they are really opposed to? You do get awful bendy doing yoga, and those clothes are awful tight...

Onesimus

Gumbi wrote: »

Why???

Only an Athiest could ask such a question.

Gumbi

Onesimus wrote: »

Only an Athiest could ask such a question.

It's an honest question. What's the motivation for such an action to be taken?

Autonomous Cowherd

Juza1973 wrote: »

I'll take as a "stay out of Yoga if you want to stay a Christian". You might find it too much but salvation of the soul is of the outmost importance to me.

''You might find it too much'' ? How do you know anything about what I might find? Don't presume.

But since you bring it up, my point was that by stilling the mind (through authentic practice of yoga, or whatever is your inclination) one may possibly lift the veils to decipher the meanings behind such (perhaps indescribable) concepts as 'salvation' and 'soul'.........what could be wrong with that? Why could deeper enquiry possibly threaten the salvation of ones soul? Is God not sophisticated enough to withstand diversity and enquiry? After all, God (however you name and understand that concept) created both the diverse subjects/objects and the analytical tools.

I apologise for such terms as I have used that may have previously infringed this forums charter. I will go easy if I stay, although I am accustomed to robust forums and may be too much of a bull in a china shop for here.
Best Wishes.

horsemaster

I teach Yoga on the side when I have time and have been teaching it for about 20 years or so. I am Hindu/Buddhist. In my class, I have had priests. I have been asked the same question and I tell them the same answer. Yoga is not about conversion. Hinduism is a way of life. It doesn't matter what religion you are from. There are manu universal principles in Yoga that is practiced by other religions. That doesn't mean other religions have Hinduism as a basis.

You can do Yoga thinking about your "God'. You don't even have to think when you do Yoga (I can see the atheists smiling now). Take Yoga as a physical exercise. There is nothing occult in practicing it. If it bothers you, don't indulge in the spiritual side of Yoga.

I can't say anything negative about the Father in question here as it is his opinion. He is entitled to it. I do wish him well as I think he is looking out for the well being of his church. That is an admirable quality. He may know something that I don't so I cannot say he is a bad or wrong. But I can say I am not a satanist.

Juza1973

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

''You might find it too much'' ? How do you know anything about what I might find? Don't presume.

I use my brain and I make assumptions. I have the full right and interest to presume until I find my assumption wrong. Maybe it's against the rules of Yoga but I am not bound by them.

But since you bring it up, my point was that by stilling the mind (through authentic practice of yoga, or whatever is your inclination) one may possibly lift the veils to decipher the meanings behind such (perhaps indescribable) concepts as 'salvation' and 'soul'.........what could be wrong with that? Why could deeper enquiry possibly threaten the salvation of ones soul? Is God not sophisticated enough to withstand diversity and enquiry? After all, God (however you name and understand that concept) created both the diverse subjects/objects and the analytical tools.

Because God has shown us the path to him and there is no assurance that He can be found through other ways, which are not as adeguate to find him. God is almighty and onniscent and can not be lead in error, we surely can and this is why we must use extreme caution. The sacrifice of Yoga is surely not the greatest sacrifice that I could do in my life so I have no regret in cutting it out. I can always stretch.

And by the way I have relatives who are extremely serious in the Yoga and I have some idea. Outstanding citizens, extremely nice people, but nothing to do with Christ and his word.

Juza1973

Gumbi wrote: »

It's an honest question. What's the motivation for such an action to be taken?

To be with God in eternal joy for all eternity as opposed to be without God from all eternity and hate forever yourself and all that existed. The quote is from a book called "of Eternal Salvation" by Saint Alphonsus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonsus_Maria_de_Liguori)

TheFlyingPig

Lmaopml is right - this is a matter for discernment on behalf of the yoga enthusiast themselves. I'm sure it would be possible for me to undertake yoga without it coming between my relationship with God. I'm confident enough in my faith to know that. Following Jesus for me is not about this kind of nitpicking.

If you are one who wants to combat the "work of Satan" might I respectfully suggest you roll up your sleeves and help with relieving the poverty and suffering rampant in our society (some of it contributed by my own Church). Seriously, if some of you feel this strongly about putting the world to right about something as simple as yoga, I can only imagine you wont sleep knowing that there are children going to bed hungry tonight. WWJD? He'd be out with the Simon Community, Vincent De Paul or manning a Soup kitchen not combatting the great Yoga Heresy.

I know the object of the forum is discussion btw but a little perspective seems appropriate here.

Juza1973

TheFlyingPig wrote: »

Seriously, if some of you feel this strongly about putting the world to right about something as simple as yoga, I can only imagine you wont sleep knowing that there are children going to bed hungry tonight. WWJD? He'd be out with the Simon Community, Vincent De Paul or manning a Soup kitchen not combatting the great Yoga Heresy.

I know the object of the forum is discussion btw but a little perspective seems appropriate here.

NOT doing Yoga takes very little effort, and does not prevent anyone from doing other saint things. Just not do it.

Gumbi

Juza1973 wrote: »

To be with God in eternal joy for all eternity as opposed to be without God from all eternity and hate forever yourself and all that existed. The quote is from a book called "of Eternal Salvation" by Saint Alphonsus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonsus_Maria_de_Liguori)

So salvation is desirable because it's...joyous? What if I don't find it to be joyous? I am automatically committed to hell? That doesn't sound very fair, does it now?

FoxT

I never post in this forum , but I feel compelled to....this, this, is the funniest thread title I have ever seen.


Well done, OP, Thank you!

FoxT

" As the Church tries to live with various pastoral difficulties"


riiight.

Autonomous Cowherd

FoxT wrote: »

I never post in this forum , because ye are all demented..but this, this, is the funniest thread title I have ever seen.


Well done, OP, Thank you!

Funnily enough, I chose to post in this forum because of the title. It had been 20 years since i was publicly denounced from the altar in my local village for teaching yoga in my community - an incitement to hatred if ever there was one, in my opinion, and I guess i was incredulous that such small-mindedness still existed. But then, even funnier, I was ticked off because I used language inappropriate to the sensitivities of Christian believers. But my philosophical path - that of Yoga - is permitted to be referred to in the title as ''The Work of Satan''..... (go figure!)...and another poster is allowed to freely refer to their supposition of my limitations when it comes to the possibility of my comprehending spiritual matters. In fact, defends their right to make assumptions about me! :-D

Oh Well.

georgieporgy

It's beginning to look like the catholic church is the only outfit interested in warning people about spiritual dangers to their souls.

And the funny thing (unfunny perhaps?) is, most people don't seem to comprehend what spiritual danger to your soul means.

Benny_Cake

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Funnily enough, I chose to post in this forum because of the title. It had been 20 years since i was publicly denounced from the altar in my local village for teaching yoga in my community - an incitement to hatred if ever there was one, in my opinion, and I guess i was incredulous that such small-mindedness still existed. But then, even funnier, I was ticked off because I used language inappropriate to the sensitivities of Christian believers. But my philosophical path - that of Yoga - is permitted to be referred to in the title as ''The Work of Satan''..... (go figure!)...and another poster is allowed to freely refer to their supposition of my limitations when it comes to the possibility of my comprehending spiritual matters. In fact, defends their right to make assumptions about me! :-D

Oh Well.

As regards the thread title, the OP was quoting a blog, one with which they disagreed. To call yoga "the work of Satan" is so ridiculous that it barely warrants discussion. Yoga classes are held in parish centres up and down the country so it would seem that the majority have absolutely no problem with it. For those that do, it seems pretty simple - just don't do it.

Autonomous Cowherd

Benny_Cake wrote: »

As regards the thread title, the OP was quoting a blog, one with which they disagreed. To call yoga "the work of Satan" is so ridiculous that it barely warrants discussion. Yoga classes are held in parish centres up and down the country so it would seem that the majority have absolutely no problem with it. For those that do, it seems pretty simple - just don't do it.

I agree with you Benny Cake (not simply because you hail from my home county ), that to call Yoga the work of Satan is ridiculous. And yet, people do. Regularly enough, in fact. As per example the blog post under discussion. Decriers of Yoga claim (and again regularly enough, surprisingly) that practitioners ''manipulate'' ''energies'' that allow satan (whoever or whatever that is!) to ''enter'' the body. And so on and so forth. It's funny, because in 30 years of intensive study of Yoga, including sojourns in India and ashrams all over the world, I have NEVER once heard in these places of any religion referred to in anything other than fond and admiring terms. Yogis seem to regard the practice of any sincere spiritual path as being wonderfully beneficial to the being as a whole, an admirable pursuit that will lead to the harmonious unfolding of human potential. My Guru (Oh! Do I dare to eat a peach!) said first and foremost in Yoga one aught to discover one's relationship with God, and then, after that, to LIVE it.
Why is it that Christians - well, more specifically Catholics, because I have very cordial relations with Protestant ministers of all ilk wrt Yoga - feel so threatened? Yoga does not threaten you.

Simple.

maguffin

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Why is it that Christians - well, more specifically Catholics, because I have very cordial relations with Protestant ministers of all ilk wrt Yoga - feel so threatened? Yoga does not threaten you.

Simple.

I too wonder about this. It seems to me that the 'Faith' of these people is not as strong as they often purport it to be. They seem terrified at anything that appears to be different from their (archaic) way of thinking, believing it will lead the 'faithful' to their doom! Their attitude is anything but welcoming and compassionate when it comes to interacting with cultures that have differing belief systems, instead they use terms like 'work of the devil', 'satan's work', etc.
In truth, I am truly saddened by the attitude of the church and christians in general that they should be so 'un-christian' in their outlook on life, and it astounds me, that in this 21st century, they still live in such fear-ridden ways of thinking.

Yoga a threat?, I mean, get real, get a life and start living!!

georgieporgy

What was it Satan said to Eve?

"it's just an apple. What harm can it do? one little bite. full of vitamin C. Go on! and be sure to give some to yer mate while your at it." :rolleyes:

newmug

lmaopml wrote: »

Plenty of sports teach stretching and balance. I cycle a lot, I sometimes pray while I'm at it. I run and pray too....Can 'Yoga' be separated from the spirituality connected with it's origin and merely be practiced as a form of keeping flexible and fit? I think some instructors already do this in the West? - mind you some really don't!

I did Tai Chi once too and Wado Ryu - the Tai Chi had a lot of Eastern spirituality in the sense of 'Chi' and that energy around the body..lol...it didn't really suit me in that sense - because I couldn't find mine The Wado didn't though.

Really? I used to do it too, that was part of why I gave it up! At the start and end of every class, we had to "sit" on our calves, and bow to this picture of an old man. When I questioned this, the instructor said it was just Japanese tradition, and nothing spiritual. I wasn't convinced. The more I did it, the more I came to the conclusion that there was indeed spiritual roots behind a lot of the paraphenalia around this sport. eg. The names of some of the moves, I forget a lot of them, but I think one was "magic wind". Stuff like that.

I'll tell you something though - ThatSpongebob Squarepants cartoon? Now THAT is the work of the devil!

Autonomous Cowherd

Aaaahhhh. If we are going to be reminiscing about rituals where ''spiritual'' respect is offered to earthly beings .....I do seem to remember a spot of Bishop's ring kissing in my youth.

Juza1973

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Why is it that Christians - well, more specifically Catholics, because I have very cordial relations with Protestant ministers of all ilk wrt Yoga - feel so threatened? Yoga does not threaten you.

Simple.

Maybe this is for us to judge? Threaten in the sense of "we want to burn your Churches with you inside" surely not but I think that it can be summed up as "I don't care for your religion and I will introduce you to some concepts and practices that might or might not cause damage to it. It is not my concern anyway." For me this is enough. It is not about having proofs that Satan is behind it, it is about asking myself "can this damage me?". If you feel that it could you don't do it.

Juza1973

Gumbi wrote: »

So salvation is desirable because it's...joyous? What if I don't find it to be joyous? I am automatically committed to hell? That doesn't sound very fair, does it now?

If you don't find joyous you are committed to hell by definition, but the Church also teaches us that joy cannot be found outside of God so if you reject God you reject joy - it cannot be found nowhere else. It wouldn't be fair if you were OBLIGED to accept God, which is not. Your "no" means "no".

Autonomous Cowherd

Juza1973 wrote: »

If you don't find joyous you are committed to hell by definition, but the Church also teaches us that joy cannot be found outside of God so if you reject God you reject joy - it cannot be found nowhere else. It wouldn't be fair if you were OBLIGED to accept God, which is not. Your "no" means "no".

''Committed to hell by definition''..See, there ya go! I just don't know how any God-loving being could possibly rest easy on their heavenly laurels knowing that their fellow-kind writhed in the fires of eternal damnation.

I will quote you a Buddhist vow......don't take offense...I do so because it conveys quite well (i think) the views of other spiritual paths about their fellow beings of all and no creeds. In Buddhism for example a person will sacrifice his or her own salvation (enlightenment) until such times as all beings are saved (liberated)....

''With a wish to free all beings
I shall always go for refuge
To the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha,
Until I reach full enlightenment.
Enthused by wisdom and compassion,
today in the Buddhas' presence I generate
the Mind for Full Awakening
For the benefit of all sentient beings.
As long as space remains,
As long as sentient beings remain,
Until then, may I too remain
And dispel the miseries of the world.''

(Buddha in this case refers to the divine reality behind all things as one personally understands it, dharma to spiritual teachings/scripture and duties, and sangha to the spiritual community)


I like to think of a world where we could all become so genuinely selfless.

Doc Farrell

Juza1973 wrote: »

If you don't find joyous you are committed to hell by definition, but the Church also teaches us that joy cannot be found outside of God so if you reject God you reject joy - it cannot be found nowhere else. It wouldn't be fair if you were OBLIGED to accept God, which is not. Your "no" means "no".

Interesting theology but I'm not familiar with it, which church teaches this?

Sonics2k

georgieporgy wrote: »

What was it Satan said to Eve?

"it's just an apple. What harm can it do? one little bite. full of vitamin C. Go on! and be sure to give some to yer mate while your at it." :rolleyes:

No, that was the serpent.
Not once does it say the serpent is Satan, it's a foolish misinterpretation that later came about.

Gumbi

Juza1973 wrote: »

If you don't find joyous you are committed to hell by definition, but the Church also teaches us that joy cannot be found outside of God so if you reject God you reject joy - it cannot be found nowhere else. It wouldn't be fair if you were OBLIGED to accept God, which is not. Your "no" means "no".

Joy is subjective.

georgieporgy

Sonics2k wrote: »

No, that was the serpent.
Not once does it say the serpent is Satan, it's a foolish misinterpretation that later came about.

Sometimes satan takes the form of a serpent, other times, er... a yogi :eek: