2 Killed In Birr Crash

cson

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1111/offaly-light-aircraft.html

RIP.

They've a great set up in Ormond there so condolences to the families and the members of that club.

bluecode

Knew both of them. Chatted to them only a short time ago. Terrible news.

DoMyBooks

bluecode wrote: »

Knew both of them. Chatted to them only a short time ago. Terrible news.

I used to fly out of Birr a few years ago. Horrible news. Condolences.

eastmayo

Just heard...very sad news

EI-DOR

Awful news. Condolences!!

Stheno

Jesus. Condolences to their families

youi

Very sad news. Any idea what type of aircraft was this?

bluecode

C150, EI-AST, the 'crow'.

pilot1087

Very sad news. Condolences to their families.

RustyNut

Rip

Su Campu

Sad news indeed. Is the RTE piece right when they say it happened just before 5 pm? Was it a night VFR flight then?

bluecode

No it wasn't. It was the last circuit of the day just before sundown. It was only when they didn't come back that people began to worry.

DoMyBooks

Su Campu wrote: »

Sad news indeed. Is the RTE piece right when they say it happened just before 5 pm? Was it a night VFR flight then?

Reported missing at 16:50 which would be just after end VFR

phonypony

Su Campu wrote: »

Sad news indeed. Is the RTE piece right when they say it happened just before 5 pm? Was it a night VFR flight then?

I had read earlier it was reported at 16.50, rather than occurred at that time. RIP both.

Crey86

Very sad news my thoughts are with the family, friends and the club.

Run_to_da_hills

RIP to the two and condolences to families and friends.

Xpro

RIP.

Tinytony

If someone knows the names can they please pm me. Very worried.

Cork boy 55

RIP condolences to families.

BigGrayKettle

RIP to the two men and condolences to all concerned.

Flew my first solo in EI-AST in Birr, they are all great people in the club there. Very sad news.

Lapin

Very sad news.

RIP to the deceased and condolences to family, friends and all at Ormond Flying Club.

Topper7

RIP lads.

globemaster1986

RIP.

Thoughts with the families, friends and those at the club.

EchoIndia

The two men involved have been named:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/pair-killed-in-offaly-plane-crash-named-573858.html

Oscar Bravo

RIP lads. Very sad.

jackofalltrades

RIP. Thoughts go out to their families.

Nforce

RIP. The Irish Aviation community is a small one and the loss of these guys will be a devastating blow.

peter1892

R.I.P.

MidlandsM

RIP, poor lads.

Stovepipe

I didn't know them but i have been to Birr quite a few times and they are a grand bunch there.RIP and condolences to family and friends.
Stovepipe

Bummer1234

Very sad news, RIP.

Veloce

bluecode wrote: »

C150, EI-AST, the 'crow'.

Had done a few training hours in that aircraft myself. RIP to them both.

DieselPowered

sad news.

Any idea what happened? engine failure on finals?

bluecode

No it was just after take off in the circuit. Looks like loss of power at a critical moment. But other than that it's speculation right now.

lomb

Terrible news , RIP.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Very sad, RIP to both men. The instructor was from a very respected business family here in Roscrea. The massive turnout at his wake this evening shows how highly people regarded him.

Nforce

My son got to fly with Niall last year. My condolences to the men's families and to the Ormand Flying Club on their loss.

smurfjed

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/Preliminary%20Report%202012-022.pdf

The AAIU has issued the preliminary report.

smurfjed

bluecode

Thanks for the link. Confirms what I was told shortly after the accident. Very unfortunate.

lomb

Looks like were on the departure leg with an total engine failure/partial power loss and attempted to turn back for some reason to land on 18 in the opposite direction on 36 and never made it and stalled. Is it even possible to make a successful 180 turn below 500 AGL with a power failure.
What is the terrain like in front of 18 in Birr?

FWVT

Very sad indeed, but tough questions must be asked.

- Why did they continue another circuit after sunset, which for Birr that day was 16:42, two minutes before the accident? Conditions at nearby Gurteen were reported 22 km visibility and overcast, so light levels would have been diminishing quickly.

- How much fuel was remaining? 60 litres at 14:10, then three subsequent flights, including the accident flight. Depending on the total flight time, the question of fuel starvation must be a strong consideration.

All speculation on my part, but from the statement about the fueling in the preliminary report it must be one line of investigation they are taking.

RIP

bluecode

The terrain off the end of 18 in Birr is flat initially but then begins to climb slightly about a mile out. But it's not the worst and is certainly better than 36. I don't think the time of day was a factor. The light was still good at the time. It did hamper search efforts though. Something perhaps to bear in mind.

The lack of fuel was known from early on. Now confirmed officially.

But like every accident there will be chain of events leading to disaster. No doubt that will be main focus of the full investigation.

aerhead

FWVT wrote: »

Very sad indeed, but tough questions must be asked.

- Why did they continue another circuit after sunset, which for Birr that day was 16:42, two minutes before the accident? Conditions at nearby Gurteen were reported 22 km visibility and overcast, so light levels would have been diminishing quickly.

- How much fuel was remaining? 60 litres at 14:10, then three subsequent flights, including the accident flight. Depending on the total flight time, the question of fuel starvation must be a strong consideration.

All speculation on my part, but from the statement about the fueling in the preliminary report it must be one line of investigation they are taking.

RIP

I was thinking about the fuel. If it were 60L at 14.10 and assuming no breaks in between then and 16.44 they would have had 3 hours endurance, probably more, taking them on past 16.44. The only issue would be what was in the tanks before refuelling. Given there was minimal fuel leakage the investigators will be able to rule that in or out.

Speculation is unfair in my opinion. Leave it until the final report.

FWVT

aerhead wrote: »

I was thinking about the fuel. If it were 60L at 14.10 and assuming no breaks in between then and 16.44 they would have had 3 hours endurance, probably more, taking them on past 16.44. The only issue would be what was in the tanks before refuelling. Given there was minimal fuel leakage the investigators will be able to rule that in or out.

Speculation is unfair in my opinion. Leave it until the final report.

The report says they put in 48 l to bring it up to 60 l total. Not sure what planes you fly but I would not be planning less than 30 l/hrs, so saying that they'd be ok flying 3 hours on 60 l is crazy if you ask me.

Also, regarding sunset times, end of VFR is sunset so flying past that is against the rules.

smurfjed

In or over the State, “night” shall be deemed to be, during the period beginning on the 1st day of April, and ending on the 30th day of September, the time between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise, and during the remainder of the year, the time between sunset and sunrise, and for the purpose of this definition sunset shall be determined at surface level;

I assume that this still applies, taken from SI 72/2004.

smurfjed

Peregrine

Well the report is out. They concluded that the loss of engine power was due to fuel starvation and no technical defect was found in the aircraft.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/plane-short-of-fuel-in-fatal-birr-crash-report-finds-1.1576889

Report: http://www.aaiu.ie/node/605

keith16

I met Damiens' mother recently and she spoke openly about the whole thing. She said that they shouldn't have went up again but that was easy for us to say, and she said she didn't really blame anyone. Really lovely woman. God love her.

John_Mc

It's amazing that the fuel gauge in Cessnas cannot be trusted. Why is this? Surely if it can fly then it can give a reasonably accurate indication of the fuel in the tanks, like any car.

DieselPowered

John_Mc wrote: »

It's amazing that the fuel gauge in Cessnas cannot be trusted. Why is this? Surely if it can fly then it can give a reasonably accurate indication of the fuel in the tanks, like any car.

They have never been a trusted in source in older Cessna 150/152/172's ,Its just the way things are.
Physically dipping the tanks on these are the only way fuel qty can be guaged.

John_Mc

DieselPowered wrote: »

They have never been a trusted in source in older Cessna 150/152/172's ,Its just the way things are.
Physically dipping the tanks on these are the only way fuel qty can be guaged.

Yeah I know that's part of the preflight checks, and then you have the FREDA mental check every 15 minutes or so.

Still doesn't explain why the gauges can't be reasonably accurate given that every provides it.

DieselPowered

John_Mc wrote: »

Yeah I know that's part of the preflight checks, and then you have the FREDA mental check every 15 minutes or so.

Still doesn't explain why the gauges can't be reasonably accurate given that every provides it.

They may have been accurate when the aircraft was new and degraded over time. I don't know either why they can't be installed as accurate, just like the airspeed or altimeter.