Teletext on RTE 1 AND 2 ?

threein99

Can anyone reccommend a digital box that will receive teletext ? got one today in Halfords but it doesnt support teletext

bodyguard1

threein99 wrote: »

Can anyone reccommend a digital box that will receive teletext ? got one today in Halfords but it doesnt support teletext

Don't mean to hijack your thread but just wanted to add to it I have the Irish Saorview Channels through Sky but since the Digital Changeover can no longer receive Teletext either, anyone have any solutions to the problem ?

MarkK

threein99 wrote: »

Can anyone reccommend a digital box that will receive teletext ? got one today in Halfords but it doesnt support teletext

Any Saorview approved box will give you the new Digital Aertel service.

The 'old fashioned' type of teletext is no longer carried by RTE on Saorview.

MarkK

bodyguard1 wrote: »

Don't mean to hijack your thread but just wanted to add to it I have the Irish Saorview Channels through Sky but since the Digital Changeover can no longer receive Teletext either, anyone have any solutions to the problem ?

Do you have a Sky box and a Sky subscription?
That's the only way to get the Irish channels though Sky.

If you are getting them via Saorview though an aerial, the answer is the same as above. You need a Saorview approved box.

threein99

MarkK wrote: »

Any Saorview approved box will give you the new Digital Aertel service.

The 'old fashioned' type of teletext is no longer carried by RTE on Saorview.

Looking for the non saorview route if possible

MarkK

threein99 wrote: »

Looking for the non saorview route if possible

There only alternatives are the web:
http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/100-1.html

Or get a UPC or Sky subscription.

bodyguard1

MarkK wrote: »

Do you have a Sky box and a Sky subscription?
That's the only way to get the Irish channels though Sky.

If you are getting them via Saorview though an aerial, the answer is the same as above. You need a Saorview approved box.

Yes I do have a Sky + Box and a Sky subscription

MarkK

bodyguard1 wrote: »

Yes I do have a Sky + Box and a Sky subscription

Are you connecting the Sky box to the TV using HDMI?

HDMI does not carry the teletext signal.

As a workaround the Sky box also broadcasts the signal in analogue, you could tune that in on your TV. Then change to that channel when you want to use teletext.
Or use a SCART.

bodyguard1

MarkK wrote: »

Are you connecting the Sky box to the TV using HDMI?

HDMI does not carry the teletext signal.

As a workaround the Sky box also broadcasts the signal in analogue, you could tune that in on your TV. Then change to that channel when you want to use teletext.
Or use a SCART.[/QUOTE
Thanks Markk, I'll try that !

eddiem10

RTE2 HD on Sky does not carry any Aertel.

snaps

MarkK wrote: »

Are you connecting the Sky box to the TV using HDMI?

HDMI does not carry the teletext signal.

As a workaround the Sky box also broadcasts the signal in analogue, you could tune that in on your TV. Then change to that channel when you want to use teletext.
Or use a SCART.

Interesting, even if you press text on the sky remote?

STB

MarkK wrote: »

Any Saorview approved box will give you the new Digital Aertel service.

The 'old fashioned' type of teletext is no longer carried by RTE on Saorview.

Combo boxes also display aertel text. The RTE1 channel on Sky/28.2 whilst encrypted displays the text. The text is not encrypted and does not require the box to be connected by scart. It works perfectly over HDMI.

RTE2HD on Sky does not broadcast Aertel Text no matter what type box is connected to it.

MarkK

STB wrote: »

Combo boxes also display aertel text. The RTE1 channel on Sky/28.2 whilst encrypted displays the text. The text is not encrypted and does not require the box to be connected by scart. It works perfectly over HDMI.

I expect it works on your Combo as the Combo box has a teletext decoder built into it.
A Sky box doesn't.

STB

MarkK wrote: »

I expect it works on your Combo as the Combo box has a teletext decoder built into it.
A Sky box doesn't.

Most boxes support EBU text, by default.

Are you telling me that Sky boxes do not support EBU text ?

Why is it being broadcast by Sky and provided by RTE then.

Antenna

STB wrote: »

RTE2HD on Sky does not broadcast Aertel Text no matter what type box is connected to it.

Could it not just point to the same teletext stream as RTE2 SD, as they are both on the same transponder?
Obviously one would still have to switch to a non-HDMI output from the Skybox to use the teletext with it via the TV.

STB

Antenna wrote: »

Could it not just point to the same teletext stream as RTE2 SD, as they are both on the same transponder?
Obviously one would still have to switch to a non-HDMI output from the Skybox to use the teletext with it via the TV.

What they are doing is replicating the Saorview setup pre switch off of analogue.

RTE1 only ever broadcast the EBU Old Analogue Aertel teletext. RTE2HD took the MHEG5 text from the MHEG data carousel by default.

To answer your question, yes it would be simple for Sky to replicate RTE1 text on RTE2HD. The feeds are being provided to them exclusively!

MarkK

STB wrote: »

Are you telling me that Sky boxes do not support EBU text ?

I'm saying Sky boxes do not have an EBU teletext decoder built in.

STB wrote: »

Why is it being broadcast by Sky and provided by RTE then.

Because most TVs do have EBU teletext decoders built in, so Sky customers can us the Teletext decoder in their TV to access Aertel.

STB

MarkK.

I understand exactly how EBU text is decoded and how it can be passed.

I just wanted to hear someone confirm my suspicions that RTE are maintaining and providing an EBU service for a pay service provider who doesn't offer EBU presentation through their proprietary box on a stand alone basis.

MarkK

STB wrote: »

I just wanted to hear someone confirm my suspicions that RTE are maintaining and providing an EBU service for a pay service provider who doesn't offer EBU presentation through their proprietary box on a stand alone basis.

It's also on analogue cable, it's not maintained just for Sky.

STB

MarkK wrote: »

It's also on analogue cable, it's not maintained just for Sky.

yeah right Mark. It IS being maintained for Sky, not a handful of analogue only UPC customers.

MarkK

STB wrote: »

yeah right Mark. It IS being maintained for Sky, not a handful of analogue only UPC customers.

:rolleyes:

It's being maintained for the Aertel advertisers and TV license fee payers.

STB

MarkK wrote: »

:rolleyes:

It's being maintained for the Aertel advertisers and TV license fee payers.

:rolleyes: Yourself Mark. You do not have to subscribe to Sky in order to receive the PSB channels that the TV licence fee semi fund.

It would seem that you do have to subscribe to Sky to receive the old style Aertel service which is being maintained by RTE for an exclusive pay only TV subscription company.

I wonder have the BAI/DCENR received any complaints.

icdg

STB cut it with the personal jibes please.

Its also still on digital UPC, if that helps any bit. (And unlike Sky digital boxes, UPC digital boxes DO have an in-built EBU teletext decoder). In fact the only people who can't receive it are houses solely reliant on Saorview/Saorsat.

We were promised that UPC would get the digital Aertel service last month. It never materialized, but then again RTÉ News Now was four months late.

You could make the same argument that RTÉ should not have a website because only people that pay a subscription to an ISP can access it. (Lest that seem a bit extreme, the NNI have in fact been arguing for some time that RTÉ should not have a website...)

STB

icdg wrote: »

STB cut it with the personal jibes please.

?? What personal jibes ?

icdg wrote: »

Its also still on digital UPC, if that helps any bit. (And unlike Sky digital boxes, UPC digital boxes DO have an in-built EBU teletext decoder). In fact the only people who can't receive it are houses solely reliant on Saorview/Saorsat.

We were promised that UPC would get the digital Aertel service last month. It never materialized, but then again RTÉ News Now was four months late.

Well if it is on UPC digital boxes at the moment it is not by design or agreement. "Original version will remain available to Sky users".

Unfortunately it would seem that the primary and statutory obligation of providing all services free to air have taken a back seat to pandering to pay only subscription television companies.

If I am honest i really couldn't give a fiddlers what service subscription companies are providing. That is a private agreement between the pay only subscription company and the end user who has entered into such an agreement. I am concerned about a service being maintained by the state broadcaster for Sky/UPC/Any other private subscription company on an exclusive basis despite the fact that said PSB is funded by joe public, but said service is not being offered to joe public without a subscription to said companies.

icdg wrote: »

You could make the same argument that RTÉ should not have a website because only people that pay a subscription to an ISP can access it. (Lest that seem a bit extreme, the NNI have in fact been arguing for some time that RTÉ should not have a website...)

You could, and that might be a clever analogy if we were not discussing broadcasting and RTE's support of a broadcast service on pay only platforms on an exclusive basis.

MarkK

STB wrote: »

Well if it is on UPC digital boxes at the moment it is not by design or agreement.

What do you mean "if it is on UPC Digital", of course it's still on UPC digital as explained by ICDG

STB wrote: »

Unfortunately it would seem that the primary and statutory obligation of providing all services free to air have taken a back seat to pandering to pay only subscription television companies.

I would say that Aertel is FTA on 28.2e, but why should I bother to make that point when you can make it for me (from another thread)

STB wrote: »

Yes this works on RTE1 and RTE2 encrypted channels on Astra 28.2. Whilst your box will say the channel is encrypted, the text service is not encrypted and works fine.

The Cush

icdg wrote: »

We were promised that UPC would get the digital Aertel service last month. It never materialized, but then again RTÉ News Now was four months late.

Coming this month according to a recent Dáil reply - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81482734

STB

MarkK wrote: »

What do you mean "if it is on UPC Digital", of course it's still on UPC digital as explained by ICDG

By design ?

RTÉ Aertel will be available on Saorview, online – in a new digital format and on UPC. MHEG5 driven text is what UPC digital will be using. Just in case you missed it the first time, I will repost the article.

MarkK wrote: »

I would say that Aertel is FTA on 28.2e, but why should I bother to make that point when you can make it for me (from another thread)

? I posted a workaround as you cannot actually encrypt a text service. Only people who have read the post (and hang around technical fora) will be aware of the workaround.

That is just that, a workaround, and is certainly no justification for RTE providing and maintaining a service exclusively to a pay only subscriber that isn't provided FTA on its own FTA platform.

MarkK

STB wrote: »

By design ?

Yes "by design" as the new Digital Aertel has not been rolled out to UPC yet so it still has the old one on both analogue and digital.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81428996&postcount=7

STB wrote: »

? I posted a workaround as you cannot actually encrypt a text service. Only people who have read the post (and hang around technical fora) will be aware of the workaround.

Aertel is available FTA on 28.2e, so why say "said service is not being offered to joe public without a subscription to said companies."?

STB wrote: »

That is just that, a workaround, and is certainly no justification for RTE providing and maintaining a service exclusively to a pay only subscriber that isn't provided FTA on its own FTA platform.

Aertel is provided FTA on 28.2e on the same transponder as FTA RTE radio channels. You don't need a Sky subscription or even a Sky box to pick them up.

STB

MarkK wrote: »

Yes "by design" as the new Digital Aertel has not been rolled out to UPC yet so it still has the old one on both analogue and digital.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81428996&postcount=7

Aertel is available FTA on 28.2e, so why say "said service is not being offered to joe public without a subscription to said companies."?

Aertel is provided FTA on 28.2e on the same transponder as FTA RTE radio channels. You don't need a Sky subscription or even a Sky box to pick them up.

Aertel is only available because $ky cannot encrypt it. Nobody goes to a channel that displays a message saying channel encrypted. Most people with FTA equipment only scan the FTA stuff!

Radio channels have nothing to do with this discussion which is to do with the upkeep of a dropped broadcast service no longer carried on RTE's broadcast network but provided and updated by RTE (a semi state and exchequer funded body) for Sky so that Sky's paying customers with their proprietary non mheg boxes from being upset. You can try and muddy the waters but thats what it is.

Antenna

Its surely more accurate to say it is being maintained for both Sky and UPC, rather than just SKy ??

STB wrote: »

MHEG5 driven text is what UPC digital will be using.

The upc mmds STBs in most of the country (ex Chorus areas) will only work with the EBU/WST teletext. Some town cable services are fed directly off MMDS so would be using the same STBs rather than the boxes used by Dublin cable.

STB wrote: »

yeah right Mark. It IS being maintained for Sky, not a handful of analogue only UPC customers.

most digital cable subscribers in Dublin are still using analogue cable on at least one other TV in the house.

Capt'n Midnight

threein99 wrote: »

Can anyone reccommend a digital box that will receive teletext ? got one today in Halfords but it doesnt support teletext

If bought in the ROI take it back, and they didn't have a notice saying it could not receive teletext then not fit for purpose

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland.html Goods must be fit for their purpose – they must do what they are reasonably expected to do

Teletext is a reasonable expectation as it's been available on almost every TV for ages.

If you can find it in stock Tesco do an approved receiver for €50. (I've only seen one once in my local) It's virtually identical to their €89 one :mad:

icdg

STB wrote: »

You could, and that might be a clever analogy if we were not discussing broadcasting and RTE's support of a broadcast service on pay only platforms on an exclusive basis.

Well okay, what about the RTÉ VOD service that is provided only on UPC? That will never be provided via Saorview, its not capable of it. Should that mean that RTÉ should be barred from providing such a service to UPC customers?

MHEG5 driven text is what UPC digital will be using. Just in case you missed it the first time

More likely OpenTV driven, since that's what UPC's boxes support. But right at this moment in time it is EBU/WST teletext that is being provided.