British Shelled the Four Courts

Dr.Nightdub

The whole point of the pre-election pact between the pro- and anti-Treaty wings of SF in May 1922 was to ensure that the June election COULDN'T be a referendum on the Treaty.

jonniebgood1

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I couldn't agree with you more. Along with An Gorta Mor the Civil War was one of the most tragic episodes in Irish history, not just for the physical death and destruction but the damage it did to the Iris psyche and the bitter divisions it left among Irish people that exist to this day.
In fact I would say (An Gorta Mor aside) the only greater tragedy to happen to Ireland was partition.

The famine of course it seems may well have been more of a crime than a tragedy.

Crooked Jack

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

The famine of course it seems may well have been more of a crime than a tragedy.

I did an article on it recently based on The Atlas of the Great Irish Famine that was just released and it really gives that impression. havent read tim pat coogans book on it yet though.

johnny_doyle

For some info on the loading and firing of 18 pounders, the different types of ammunition, direct versus indirect fire, field gun versus howitzer etc, there's an easy to follow video on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di5svup9BkY

johnny_doyle

how difficult is is to stay on topic or vaguely in the same year? Why not start a separate thread re the famine or the merits of TPC etc?


National Army recruiting office

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/5859530374/in/set-72157627671536178/lightbox/

Photo of the Four Courts after the bombardment by National Army troops

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6298688212/in/set-72157627671536178/lightbox/

johnny_doyle

Thomas_I wrote: »

It´s more likely possible that the British helped the Free State Army in this incident. When the Free State Army took over from the British in January 1921 it´d be interesting to know how many former Irish soldiers, serving in the British Army were integrated into the Irish Free State Army.

January 1921?

Some photos from January 1921
http://comeheretome.com/2012/09/11/sent-to-rescue-ireland-illustrated-london-news-january-1921/

Thomas_I

johnny_doyle wrote: »

January 1921?

Some photos from January 1921
http://comeheretome.com/2012/09/11/sent-to-rescue-ireland-illustrated-london-news-january-1921/

Of course, it was January 1922.

Jawgap

I think the headline is somewhat misleading (worthy of TPC but not the Paper of Record;)).

The bombardment took place over 2 days and the article references Creek saying....

".......how his unit of howitzer artillery was sent to Fermanagh, but later told to march by night to Dublin and “told not to speak to anyone and to keep as quiet as possible”.

Up to then, the Irish National Army had fired less-effective shrapnel rounds into the Four Courts, then held by Rory O’Connor, who opposed the 1921 Treaty with Britain......"

So they arrived in the middle of the action - they were not the initiators of it.

Also they fired two of the two hundred shells fired at the buildings - The National Army artillerists had been banging away over open sights with shrapnel rounds designed to injure personnel and destroy brabed wire rather than penetrate stonework. Macready didn't (or maybe wouldn't) issue them high explosive rounds.

The two shells fired from the howitzers were probably significant as they'll have come in at a higher trajectory, through the roof

Victor

Jawgap wrote: »

artillerists

Gunners.

johnny_doyle

Thomas_I wrote: »

Of course, it was January 1922.

I figured you knew and that it was a typo but surprised no one else commented.

There are a few pics of the Four Courts fighting and barrack handovers appearing on the Irish Volunteers page on Facebook at the moment. No mention of the famine thankfully.

Thomas_I

johnny_doyle wrote: »

I figured you knew and that it was a typo but surprised no one else commented.

There are a few pics of the Four Courts fighting and barrack handovers appearing on the Irish Volunteers page on Facebook at the moment. No mention of the famine thankfully.

I´ve once visited the website of the Irish Volunteers via a link to them, set up in another thread on these boards. It was quite interesting to browse through their pages and more over interesting to know what purpose that organisation has. It looks like a club maintaining the remembrance of the Easter Rising 1916, more traditional than political it seems to me. I´ll have a look there.

Thank you for pointing out my mistake in the date mentioned.

johnny_doyle

one of the Irish Volunteer members/contributors has a book out "Sleep Soldier Sleep" that is worth a read. Outlines the life and career of Paddy O'Connor who led one of the Four Court assault parties.

GRMA

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I did an article on it recently based on The Atlas of the Great Irish Famine that was just released and it really gives that impression. havent read tim pat coogans book on it yet though.

It's very much worth a read.

carl3684

Excellent, Johnny, this is of great interest to me!