The Wire vs The Sopranos vs Breaking Bad

trashcan

Troyaferd wrote: »

no Season 4.

Agree 100%. Best Season of any TV show ever. Stunning.

RodgersLFC

trashcan wrote: »

Agree 100%. Best Season of any TV show ever. Stunning.

Seasons 1 - 4 are pretty much the pinnacle of any TV show that I've seen.. Season 5 is great too but the serial killer plot lets it down slightly. Season 2 is an amazing piece of television. Its unpopular with a lot of people it seems, but its an essential part of the overall show. Frank Sobotka is a fantastic character.

Jimmy Iovine

Cienciano wrote: »

I think the Sopranos episode Pine Barrens is the best single episode between all 3. Paulie and Chris head off to the snowy forest to kill some russian guy

Up in my top 5 list of favourite ever episodes. Paulie and Chris are perfect in it.

Along with "Cathedrals" from The West Wing". The last 5 minutes are incredible.

They both come behind "The Son" from Friday Night Lights. The acting from Zach Gilford (as Matt Saracen) was crazy good. I'm strugging to think of any other actor that dominated a whole episode like he did.

Sorry to go off topic.

I can't decide. They all have their positives and negatives. Bullet to my head, Sopranos.

Father Damo

Why, if one does not rate The Wire, do people say you cant get the pace or other such nonsense?

I am well with the pace. It is the far fetchedness and appalling dialogue/ writing/ acting that annoyed me. As said, the whole chicken nuggets scene....FFS like, this is good writing? Or how about stock, cliche characters. Troy McClure could have been cast

"Hi, Im McNulty. You might remember womanising alcoholic cops with a sh1t personal life from tv shows and films such as....."

I am nearly tempted to give this a third attempt, but that would be taking the piss. How anyone can rate it above The Sopranos is baffling.

the_monkey

Breaking Bad ...

trashcan

Father Damo wrote: »

Why, if one does not rate The Wire, do people say you cant get the pace or other such nonsense?
How anyone can rate it above The Sopranos is baffling.

1) Cos it's true :P
2) Not really.

Seriously, I don't think I've ever read an opinion I've disagreed with so much. Bad writing and acting ? You must be watching a different show.

RodgersLFC

Father Damo wrote: »

Why, if one does not rate The Wire, do people say you cant get the pace or other such nonsense?

I am well with the pace. It is the far fetchedness and appalling dialogue/ writing/ acting that annoyed me. As said, the whole chicken nuggets scene....FFS like, this is good writing? Or how about stock, cliche characters. Troy McClure could have been cast

"Hi, Im McNulty. You might remember womanising alcoholic cops with a sh1t personal life from tv shows and films such as....."

I am nearly tempted to give this a third attempt, but that would be taking the piss. How anyone can rate it above The Sopranos is baffling.

Not as baffling as your opinion on the show, to be honest. I've no problem with people disagreeing with my opinions, but someone that accuses The Wire of bad acting, bad plots and cliched characters either hasnt watched the show at all, or is more into the likes of Judge Judy or Jeremy Kyle.

Da Shins Kelly

RodgersLFC wrote: »

Not as baffling as your opinion on the show, to be honest. I've no problem with people disagreeing with my opinions, but someone that accuses The Wire of bad acting, bad plots and cliched characters either hasnt watched the show at all, or is more into the likes of Judge Judy or Jeremy Kyle.

In fairness, McNulty is a little bit of a cliche, and Brother Mouzone is a bit far-fetched.

RodgersLFC

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

In fairness, McNulty is a little bit of a cliche, and Brother Mouzone is a bit far-fetched.

McNulty is a cliche drunken Irish cop but they do exist in the States and elsewhere. I dont think theres any characters in the Wire that are written just for the sake of being there - David Simon worked for the Baltimore Sun for years and Ed Burns was a homicide cop in the BCPD so the casting and writing is pretty authentic, for me. Brother Mouzone is a great character. Fair doos if you dont like the show like, but I wouldnt accept that the show is poorly written or suffers from cliched characters are bad acting. But each to their own as they say.

ancapailldorcha

Always felt McNulty dragged the Wire down. You've got an excellent set of characters and this stereotypical Irish(/American), alcoholic, workaholic cop in the middle of it. Season 5 was good but the ridiculous serial killer arc really dragged it down. I know why the writers wanted to do it, just seemed a bit ridiculous to me.

Da Shins Kelly

RodgersLFC wrote: »

McNulty is a cliche drunken Irish cop but they do exist in the States and elsewhere. I dont think theres any characters in the Wire that are written just for the sake of being there - David Simon worked for the Baltimore Sun for years and Ed Burns was a homicide cop in the BCPD so the casting and writing is pretty authentic, for me. Brother Mouzone is a great character. Fair doos if you dont like the show like, but I wouldnt accept that the show is poorly written or suffers from cliched characters are bad acting. But each to their own as they say.

Brother Mouzone is a good character, but he is far-fetched. It's possible to be both.

I do like the show, but there really is this big problem among people who like the show who won't accept any criticism of it or can't see some of its problems. McNulty is one of them. He gets better as the show goes on, but he's a complete cliche at the beginning of the series.

Mardy Bum

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

In fairness, McNulty is a little bit of a cliche, and Brother Mouzone is a bit far-fetched.

McNulty's character is examined meticulously throughout the five seasons and through this examination the actual stereotype is demythologised. In season 1-3 he is a man who fights tirelessly to save Baltimore without ever seeing the bigger picture. He is arrogant and pig headed because he believes he can save Baltimore alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBqyOj39rEo

McNulty is essentially the Wire's main police hero but like all heroes he has flaws; he cannot sustain such a tireless lifestyle and he ends up drinking. We all have to balance the scales some way in life. He believes he will find redemption in his job and therefore be cleansed of his bad habits but there is no redemption in a post (post) modern world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b54EEpdv9q8

He thinks finding the king pins (Stringer & Avon) and stopping them will lead to his great redemption and save the city. Yet it does not, evidenced by his scene after Stringer's death where he has a bit of a dawning realisation. You can also see the subtle differences between him and Bunk (who also is fond of the ladies and the beer) in the scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toZsLQZDDME

He realises once he goes to Stringer's apartment just how wrong he was about Stringer and begins a re-evaluation of his life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVJScIAdGNo

In season 4 you see a different man once he has left the homicide unit. He maintains a relationship and quits the booze however he blames himself for Bodie's death at the end of season 4 and goes back to the homicide unit in order to rid himself of the guilt and a faint hope of redemption.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP5T63MWGow

He tries to convince himself things will be different but "things never ****ing change" as he later says. Jimmy suffers the same fate as Oedipus as he fails to take Tiresias's advice "know thyself".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXHaA0Qeibs

Jimmy McNulty in Season 5 bears a striking resemblance to Oedipus Rex. He tries to save Baltimore again through the creation of the serial killer. His old vices rear their ugly head as the anger returns and he drinks and cheats (hamartia). Instead of working on his own however as the maverick stereotype would he works with Lester.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glQMDdXR1FM

Marlo is eventually caught because of Jimmy's illegal channeling of money to Lester and the city is momentarily spared similar to Thebes. Like Oedipus though, he catches himself out and must pay the ultimate price.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2-NkZ8lGsA

The wake scene where he is laid on the pool table in season 5 is the character's metaphorical death. There is no redemption in the job as the city is beyond repair and the only way he can save himself from destruction is by leaving the job (or being forced to leave).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVEwpYt0EwE

Lester enters in this scene as he is the other hero of the season, he does not have the same failings as Jimmy but he also is missing some of his key qualities. However both are expelled from the police force because both are capable of quality work and in this tragedy there is no hope. "America is dying" as Simon put it and so is the American hero.

The Wire is complex and that is only a very brief reading of what ultimately is only one character. To say, like some have, that is badly written is wrong- regardless of the merits of subjectivity.

Seve OB

Troyaferd wrote: »

no Season 4.

trashcan wrote: »

Agree 100%. Best Season of any TV show ever. Stunning.

No, season 5 was the winner for me by a long shot, what a genius plot.

tipptom

Whoa,the product placement for Jameson is pretty full on there,guess the Pouges was freebie.

ancapailldorcha

tipptom wrote: »

Whoa,the product placement for Jameson is pretty full on there,guess the Pouges was freebie.

I think it was there to enhance the "Irishness" or McNulty. My problem with him is that, in a show where the police are corrupt or treat their job as no more than a job he just doesn't fit in.

trashcan

tipptom wrote: »

Whoa,the product placement for Jameson is pretty full on there,guess the Pouges was freebie.

Loved McNultys comment in Season 3 when he's offered Bushmills "That's Protestant whiskey".

tipptom

trashcan wrote: »

Loved McNultys comment in Season 3 when he's offered Bushmills "That's Protestant whiskey".

Well Dominick West went to Trinity,it might have given him an insight to the great divide traditions and suggested it to the director.Liked the Mcnulty character even though he was a walking cliche but likeable.The Americans always like an Irish hard drinking rouge thrown in.
Wasnt there two drunken Irish/American cops in it that was near retirment was caught pulling some sort of insurance scam,think there was some sort of play that Mcnulty could end up like that.

Da Shins Kelly

I've just recently started watching Six Feet Under, and I'm really, really enjoying it. It never seems to get a mention in these kinds of debates, but a season in, it's as good as anything I've watched before.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I loved the Sopranos because it painted an accurate picture of the modern day Mafia. Unlike movies such as the Godfather it doesn't glorify the gangster lifestyle. It shows that many of the people involved are troubled souls, being a made man in the mob is like having a target on your back.

It's interesting to note that the Sopranos is based off the real life DeCavalcante Mafia family in New Jersey, they continue to operate to this day in alliance with the five families in New York City.

trashcan

tipptom wrote: »

Wasnt there two drunken Irish/American cops in it that was near retirment was caught pulling some sort of insurance scam,think there was some sort of play that Mcnulty could end up like that.

Polk and Mahone if I remember rightly. Wondered if it was a play on Póg mo thoin.

sink

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I've just recently started watching Six Feet Under, and I'm really, really enjoying it. It never seems to get a mention in these kinds of debates, but a season in, it's as good as anything I've watched before.

It definitely deserves to be mentioned but unlike the three, imo it doesn't maintain that level throughout, going off piste for one particularly il-thought storyline, however it finishes very strong. It probably would make my top 5.