Mega Winter Tyres thread, all questions here!! Winter 2012

Rojomur

Well its time again to consider putting them on again. havnt posted here before but last year i noticed something about runflats that might interest some people. on the eiretyres website i found that if you do not click on runflat icon Kumho KW27 XRP comes up eventhough they are runflat. i bought two and have two non runflats on front and these Kumho on the back. in short i bought two cheaper non runflats first as a cheapy experiment and was so happy with them, ie the grip, i decided to go all out and buy the Kumho at €215 each delivered. very happy all round. my size is 245/40/18 and funnily enough when you click on runflat for this size they dont come up. next cheapest are Bridgestone Blizzack at €264 so it might be difference for someone to buy or not to buy them. hope this helps.

Mod Note:
New thread made for this year and stickied! Please keep all winter tyre advice/chat in here.

Stallingrad

I have 2 Nankang SV2 winters used for three weeks so as new:

205/50R17

Have just replaced the car and have 16's on the new one, does anyone know if any tyre places will part ex them against 16 winter tires or where to sell them?

opinion guy

So I'm thinking may be time to stick the old winters on ? Other people making the swap yet ?

CiniO

I'll make a swap when I see the first snow.
So most likely when I'll drive to the Continent

beazee

Swapped them last weekend. With the clocks changed to winter time.

7 deg C being considered boarder temperature below which winter tires benefit.
So far only at the lunch time temperature reach up to 8-9 deg C. Each morning it says between 1-3 deg C

gooner99

fitted today

RandomAccess

CiniO wrote: »

I'll make a swap when I see the first snow.
So most likely when I'll drive to the Continent

Boards weather forum has news for you!

Didn't happen in Dublin though so its probably not going to make the news.

CiniO

RandomAccess wrote: »

Boards weather forum has news for you!

Didn't happen in Dublin though so its probably not going to make the news.

Anyway - Limerick is closer to me than Dublin.

Hoping to have some snow soon then;)

CJhaughey

Temps didn't get above 9 deg here yesterday, I got my set of Nokian All Season + fitted, just in time it would seem.
Snow on the hills around here, not a lot but enough to make you think....

Idleater

Swapped mine this week too. It makes the car feel different, but that is probably just differences between two sets of tyres.
I remember from last winter the grip on wet roads was superb when the tyres were in operating temperature range (<9°)

nudger

The conti 830's are going on this weekend.

Blazer

Looking to put mine on soon but I've a wedding on 23rd and want to keep the MV2s on it as they look a lot nicer than the stock alloys (17" fitted with dunlop sport winters).
Stupid wedding...temps are down around 2c in the mornings down here so perfect for them.

Stallingrad

Any reputable suppliers of part worn winters in Dublin?

CJhaughey

Blazer wrote: »

Looking to put mine on soon but I've a wedding on 23rd and want to keep the MV2s on it as they look a lot nicer than the stock alloys (17" fitted with dunlop sport winters).
Stupid wedding...temps are down around 2c in the mornings down here so perfect for them.

You'd risk mashing your car because the wheels don't look as good?
You need to rethink your strategy.

paddydriver

So any new general opinions on whether to put a single pair of winter's on back or front; of a front wheel drive car?

Have read some that say your more likely to lose the rear and hence put them on back, and then many who say you need them on the driving wheels - which would seem most obvious to me?

Any thoughts?

Stallingrad

For sedate driving in winter on a 122bhp front wheel drive car? Even if they are not great they have to be better than all season, don't they.....?

Linglong Radial 650 Winter Hero
215/55 R16 93H

What do you think?



http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=66590347.124.3503&typ=D-113804&ranzahl=4&Breite=215&Quer=55&Felge=16&Speed=H&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=20&Transport=P&dsco=124&sowigan=Wi

b318isp

All round is the best option, however IMO given the front's handle most of the braking, steering and acceleration (FWD) that's where I would put a pair - but be mindful that the rears will have significantly less grip in very poor conditions.

colm_mcm

Not a hope.

JJJJNR

I wouldn't put a pair of winters on either front or back, its been tried before and is very dangerous, pick up a set of part worns from the other axel, but put the best ones on the rear.

langdang

EEEEEEEEEEk

In fairness, tyres have labels now to confirm our suspicions.
Would you buy an E rated car? (slightly bad example)
Would you buy an E rated house?
Would you buy an E rate washing machine?
Not unless you really had no other choice - right?

Welll - slight retraction - shocked that even the premium brands can't achieve better than C on wet grip/braking tests (You expect efficiency/noise to be worse on winter tyres)

colm_mcm

The E rating for rolling resistance is normal for winter tyres as is the noise.
Grip doesn't seem great though!

Stallingrad

langdang wrote: »

EEEEEEEEEEk

In fairness, tyres have labels now to confirm our suspicions.
Would you buy an E rated car? (slightly bad example)
Would you buy an E rated house?
Would you buy an E rate washing machine?
Not unless you really had no other choice - right?

Welll - slight retraction - shocked that even the premium brands can't achieve better than C on wet grip/braking tests (You expect efficiency/noise to be worse on winter tyres)

Tyres like Continental WinterContact at €235 are only C rated...Linglongs D rated at €60. Kind of tempting if not such a variance.

TestTransmission

New thread made for this year as the other one had become a mess, enjoy.

langdang

Yeah, edited my reply as you were typing your's Colm - you expect that trade off in noise efficiency but I had expected that would come with the benefit of extra wet grip. Reinforced by several users comments here about wet grip.

I'll be sticking with bangernomics 4wd on one set of tyres all year I think, a set of winters would be nearly half the price of the car


Stalingrad, as you say, the fact that a tyre for 100 euro more and upwards can't achieve better than C does put a different spin on it. I'd still be inclined to go with Falken or Vredestein or something but let us know how you get on if you get the LingLongs!

LingLong and Prosper!

CiniO

paddydriver wrote: »

So any new general opinions on whether to put a single pair of winter's on back or front; of a front wheel drive car?

Have read some that say your more likely to lose the rear and hence put them on back, and then many who say you need them on the driving wheels - which would seem most obvious to me?

Any thoughts?

It's exactly as you say.
If you are driving on snow, winter tyres will provide you with better grip.
Therefore in FWD car if you have them on the front, they will make your car better accelerating, better braking, and better turning force. Unfortunately this will become very tricky due to less grip tyres on the back, and your car will be extremally likely to side skid.
If you put your winter tyres on the rear though, you should be safe of side-skidding, but your braking, accelerating and handling won't really improve.

In short - if you have got great skills and feel confident to control the car in any random skid - go for the winter-tyres-in-the-front setup.

If you aren't - buy 4.

Bit pointless to put the on the rear tbh.

Cuddlesworth

langdang wrote: »

Yeah, edited my reply as you were typing your's Colm - you expect that trade off in noise efficiency but I had expected that would come with the benefit of extra wet grip. Reinforced by several users comments here about wet grip.

As far as I can see, the current EU tire rating system apply's the same working temperature to winters when testing as other tires. So the ratings are bound to be bad on any good winter tire, as its not at correct operating temperature.

b318isp

@op: Also consider getting 205/60/16s, you may have options there too.

Stallingrad

b318isp wrote: »

@op: Also consider getting 205/60/16s, you may have options there too.

Can you elaborate on this, the car has 215/55/R16, is it not best to stick with the same?

b318isp

You could go for a slightly narrower tyre. It will help in snow and standing water. Often these are cheaper too.

I've done this for my winters and it works very well (and the size is an option from the manufacturer too).

Stallingrad

b318isp wrote: »

You could go for a slightly narrower tyre. It will help in snow and standing water. Often these are cheaper too.

I've done this for my winters and it works very well (and the size is an option from the manufacturer too).

Is the rim not designed specifically for the 215 though? If not how do I know how far I can safely deviate from that? I don't want the tyre to overtake me on the M50!

b318isp

I doubt it, 10mm will not make a difference over stock. Do you know what width the wheel is?

Stallingrad

Afraid not.

b318isp

If you have stock wheels, the driver's manual may give the sizes of tyres suitable - or try google.

The lips

Linglong Radial 650 Winter Hero
215/55 R16 93H

What do you think?



Last months autocar had a winter tyre test for about 6 brands, the linglongs were said to be dangerous in everything bar snow.

joujoujou

Both cars on winter setup from now on. Both on GY UltraGrip 7+.

beazee wrote: »

[...]

7 deg C being considered boarder temperature below which winter tires benefit.
[...]

Precisely.

Snow is not a factor. Temperature is.

paddydriver wrote: »

So any new general opinions on whether to put a single pair of winter's on back or front; of a front wheel drive car?

Have read some that say your more likely to lose the rear and hence put them on back, and then many who say you need them on the driving wheels - which would seem most obvious to me?

Any thoughts?

As been mentioned before, significantly different grip between axles is more than dangerous. Even if you have set of 4 same tyres, people usually used to put better pair on front axle, what is WRONG. Front axle is steerable, so in case of some trouble you can (at least) try to fix it. If you lose grip on rear axle (which obviously is not steerable) you're more than likely out of the road.

Above is subject to change if a car is very understeer. :cool:

b318isp wrote: »

You could go for a slightly narrower tyre. It will help in snow and standing water. Often these are cheaper too.

[...]

It's by the way recommended for winters. 10mm less width and slightly higher profile to keep the same wheel circumference.

Widely available online tyre size calculators will help.

Like voxwheels.com, for example.

The lips wrote: »

Linglong Radial 650 Winter Hero
215/55 R16 93H

What do you think? [...]

I think very good tyre for farmer's trailor (no offence to farmers ).

Bigus

This weeks autocar latest michelin winter tyre

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/sports-car-winter-tyre-test

CJhaughey

Bigus wrote: »

This weeks autocar latest michelin winter tyre

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/sports-car-winter-tyre-test

I wonder how many 20" and 21" winter tyres will be sold here?

hadepsx

thoughts on these lads, they look good value have 'c' in both catagories
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=17627711.124.26928&typ=R-203520&ranzahl=4&Breite=195&Quer=65&Felge=15&Speed=S&weiter=30&kategorie=2&Ang_pro_Seite=10&Transport=P&dsco=124&sowigan=Wi

corkgsxr

jaysus people have mad ideas.

deviating 10mm is no problem. just go up or down profile to compensiate total diameter so your speedo is right.

choice between front or back id put them on the front. even if its rear wheel drive. turning and braking is more important.

if your front goes and youv no grip your in trouble.

if your rear goes its easy to catch with a bit of steering

eg pointless having a solid rear end if your just slid into the back of a car.

beware of good brand eco tires. there **** in cold weather.

im wary of chinese tires i havent heard of. grand in summer but its when the low temps come they are brutal.

herself needs new tires but might not keep the car past summer so doesnt want to spend alot on tires so im sticking on 4 good brand part worn winter tires. theyll do far better than cheap new tires.

proper testing needs to be done on tires. with a proper report you can look up

corkgsxr

hadepsx wrote: »

thoughts on these lads, they look good value have 'c' in both catagories
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=17627711.124.26928&typ=R-203520&ranzahl=4&Breite=195&Quer=65&Felge=15&Speed=S&weiter=30&kategorie=2&Ang_pro_Seite=10&Transport=P&dsco=124&sowigan=Wi

great tire.

nudger

Bikers fall off on cheap tyres and hit walls,they tend to have a higher value on the quality of their tyres.

A good tyre for a motorbike costs more than a good tyre for a car.

You want quality, go for the top brands.

As I drive both I'd spend more on the bike but as herself drives the car more than me she get's what I think is the best.

In my experience the difference between the best and the rest tends to be huge .

repsol

nudger wrote: »

Bikers fall off on cheap tyres and hit walls,they tend to have a higher value on the quality of their tyres.

A good tyre for a motorbike costs more than a good tyre for a car.

You want quality, go for the top brands.

As I drive both I'd spend more on the bike but as herself drives the car more than me she get's what I think is the best.

In my experience the difference between the best and the rest tends to be huge .

The higher price of bike tyres has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of the sportsbike tyres have a dual compound,soft on the sides for extra grip and hard in the centre for longevity.There are also fewer players in the market so less competition

CJhaughey

corkgsxr wrote: »

proper testing needs to be done on tires. with a proper report you can look up

Try this site, http://www.tyretest.com/
Based on consumer reviews which is a pretty good real world sort of test.

peasant

corkgsxr wrote: »

proper testing needs to be done on tires. with a proper report you can look up

In German ...but you get the gist:

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2012_winterreifen_Test_205_55_R16.aspx (205/55/16)

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2012_winterreifen_Test_165_70_R14.aspx?ComponentId=147044&SourcePageId=31821 (165/70/14)

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2012_winterreifen_Test_215_65_R16.aspx?ComponentId=147083&SourcePageId=31821 (215/65/16)

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2011_Winterreifen_Test_195_65_R15.aspx (195/65/15)

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2010_Winterreifen_Test_185_65_R15.aspx?ComponentId=40327&SourcePageId=31821 (185/65/15 from 2010)

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2011_Ganzjahresreifen_Test_175_65_R14.aspx?ComponentId=87236&SourcePageId=31821 (175/65/14 all season tyres)

corkgsxr

You get my meaning wrong, I mean walk into a tire place he says ya iv super tire 60 a tire, on the tire is a comprehensive test results.

CJhaughey

corkgsxr wrote: »

You get my meaning wrong, I mean walk into a tire place he says ya iv super tire 60 a tire, on the tire is a comprehensive test results.

Who is going to test them? To what parameters?
It was a big enough battle getting the 3 pieces of information on them now and how relevant they are to winter tyres is debatable.
Like anything its a case of buyer doing the research as to what the tyres are to their intended purpose.
Ask most tyre places and they will tell you >95% of tyres are bought on price.
Keen punters will either buy a big name brand tyre or do research into names that aren't widely known.
Same with Bike tyres, Heidenau for instance make really good trailbike tyres but most guys with big trailies may never have heard of them except the guys that frequent forums or read up on them.

corkgsxr

One problem I find is Alot of tires that you would recognise the name most of the info is reviews and that's subjective, what one person thinks is fine another think is crap.

Eg I use lassa tires, never heard of them before but came recommended. Turns out brilliant tire, lasts ages with great grip wet dry or snow.

Then cheap Dunlop commercial tires are crap, but the sport sp are great.

corkgsxr

But I see your point about testing

CJhaughey

corkgsxr wrote: »

One problem I find is Alot of tires that you would recognise the name most of the info is reviews and that's subjective, what one person thinks is fine another think is crap.

But in a sample of 500 people using the tyres you would quickly find patterns in the reviews. Thats why the site I linked to is so good.

jeltz

Hes right it is a good site.

A problem that is not obvious is that so many people are not using a full set of tyres. Few cars have a full set of tyres most have a mix. The majority of drivers dont know that having a mix of tyres affects handling vs having a full set where the tyres work together as the engineers intended and is safer than a mix. That might affect the reviews.

Tyre manufacturers and sellers will do anything to make their tyres look good and they would try to influence the tests if they could or what info came with the tyre.

CiniO

jeltz wrote: »

Hes right it is a good site.

A problem that is not obvious is that so many people are not using a full set of tyres. Few cars have a full set of tyres most have a mix. The majority of drivers dont know that having a mix of tyres affects handling vs having a full set where the tyres work together as the engineers intended and is safer than a mix. That might affect the reviews.

Tyre manufacturers and sellers will do anything to make their tyres look good and they would try to influence the tests if they could or what info came with the tyre.

I might be wrong, but I think that in most countries on the continent it's illegal to drive with 2 different tyres within the same axle.
So you must have exact the same make and model of tyre on the left and right.
It is allowed however to have different model on the front and rear.