Ireland Captain in the face of injuries

tolosenc

Given that we could be playing international matches without Best, POC or BOD in the coming weeks, I wanted to gauge the general opinion on the forum as to who should be captain.

I would have thought Heaslip was the obvious choice, but posters in the Ireland thread seem to have doubts about his ability in that role.

.ak

Poll?

tolosenc

Gimme a second, jeez.

.ak

Fine, just make sure you include Tony Buckley.

durkadurka

Heaslip is the outstanding choice among available candidates.

Tox56

I think a lot of those people still think Heaslip should get it, but only because there simply is nobody else. I think he has the characteristics of a future captain, but for now he's the only real option (with no POC obviously).

rrpc

Although Sexton has obvious leadership qualities, I never believe that a 10 should be captain. Too close to the execution of decisions to really have the capability of taking cool reasoned decisions.

Heaslip has captained Leinster many times and impressed.

phog

.ak wrote: »

Fine, just make sure you include Tony Buckley.

why?

Fireball07

It has to be Heaslip, but I think pretty much everyone said that anyway.


Of the players left, Heaslip and POM are the two standout candidates, they have both captained their province on a good few occasions. Heaslip is older, more experienced and is likely to be the pack leader (and POM mightn't start) so he's the obvious choice.


But I still say he doesn't have the same inspirational aura that players like POC, BOD, Martin Johnson, Mick Galwey had/have.

danthefan

Are we confirmed to be missing POC? If he's fit I'd pick him obviously. If he's out then Heaslip.

Fireball07

danthefan wrote: »

Are we confirmed to be missing POC? If he's fit I'd pick him obviously. If he's out then Heaslip.

No, nothing confirmed yet, just increased fears, I think.


I think everyone would pick POC if he is fit (just like everyone is picking Heaslip if he's not)

Swiwi

durkadurka wrote: »

Heaslip is the outstanding choice among available candidates.

But he is immediately disqualified by the fact that he doesn't have a 3 letter acronym, like BOD or POC or SOB. So looking at that list it has to be DOC or POM.

durkadurka

Swiwi wrote: »

But he is immediately disqualified by the fact that he doesn't have a 3 letter acronym, like BOD or POC or SOB. So looking at that list it has to be DOC or POM.

This contribution easily exceeds 60% of contributions to this argument on the Ireland thread.

jacothelad

Chris Henry.

Fireball07

Swiwi wrote: »

But he is immediately disqualified by the fact that he doesn't have a 3 letter acronym, like BOD or POC or SOB. So looking at that list it has to be DOC or POM.

Maybe we could get Dave O'Callaghan in to be captain?

He's got a letter acronym and a number!

Foxtrol

Fireball07 wrote: »

Of the players left, Heaslip and POM are the two standout candidates, they have both captained their province on a good few occasions. Heaslip is older, more experienced and is likely to be the pack leader (and POM mightn't start) so he's the obvious choice.

I'm sorry POM is not a stand out candidate. He like Ruddock are/were getting starts with their provinces with a long term focus. POM is no where near ready to be classed as a stand out candidate for Ireland in the short/medium term.

Fireball07

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm sorry POM is not a stand out candidate. He like Ruddock are/were getting starts with their provinces with a long term focus. POM is no where near ready to be classed as a stand out candidate for Ireland in the short/medium term.

He's the only other player in the squad who's captained his side on a somewhat regular basis. And he was chosen again last weekend, he's obviously got some leadership qualities.


(That is unless Henry has been captain of Ulster, I'm not actually sure)

thomond2006

No ROG or Neil Francis poll option?

Foxtrol

Fireball07 wrote: »

He's the only other player in the squad who's captained his side on a somewhat regular basis. And he was chosen again last weekend, he's obviously got some leadership qualities.


(That is unless Henry has been captain of Ulster, I'm not actually sure)

So if Ruddock was fully fit and competing for a spot in the side you'd have him marked down ahead in the running for captain, infront of the other vastly more experienced players?

POM has started 3 games for Ireland (and there is still debate on whether it was right for him to be parachuted in) and has in no way shown he is ready for international captaincy. In my opinion making him captain is akin to starting Bent against SA, DK would be throwing a player in at the deep end when he hasn't done anything to deserve the spot.

wicklowwonder

Bent I reckon could do a job as captain... Sure why not!

Fireball07

Foxtrol wrote: »

So if Ruddock was fully fit and competing for a spot in the side you'd have him marked down ahead in the running for captain, infront of the other vastly more experienced players?

POM has started 3 games for Ireland (and there is still debate on whether it was right for him to be parachuted in) and has in no way shown he is ready for international captaincy. In my opinion making him captain is akin to starting Bent against SA, DK would be throwing a player in at the deep end when he hasn't done anything to deserve the spot.

Well it would depend on who those players were. I look at the team now and I see a lack of real captain contenders. Ruddock hasn't captained Leinster for a good while now, but if he had captained Leinster in a few games in the recent past and was playing well enough to be picked, I don't see why not if there is no other candidate.

(Obviously it would take BOD, POC, Best, Heaslip all to be missing which isn't going to happen that often)

CIARAN_BOYLE

Fireball07 wrote: »

(That is unless Henry has been captain of Ulster, I'm not actually sure)

As recently as last friday ahead of Best

Fireball07

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

As recently as last friday ahead of Best

Fair enough, I wasn't certain about that. Henry does strike me as at least okay captain material. Still behind Heaslip, but he'd be another candidate.

RoundBox11

I'm a believer that if at all possible the captain should be a forward or scrum half. Needs to be close to the ref and the action as much as possible. It's crazy to have your fullback as captain (similar to having a centre forward as captain in soccer).

I think Heaslip and Henry are the best candidates. POM shouldn't even be starting let alone be captain.
One of my standout memories of Heaslip in a green jersey is before the Australia match in the world cup in the huddle. It wasn't BOD, POC or Best doing the talking it was Heaslip. He puts his body on the line in every match and leads from the front. I think he'd make a great captain.

On saying that i think people are completely jumping the gun in saying that O'Connell will be out. As far as ive seen theres been no significant evidence to back it up. My understanding was that he's just being rested to ensure he's fully fit.

bilston

Fireball07 wrote: »

Fair enough, I wasn't certain about that. Henry does strike me as at least okay captain material. Still behind Heaslip, but he'd be another candidate.

Henry has captained Ulster loads. I don't think he should captain Ireland though!

Heaslip is the obvious call. Even if POC is fit I'd go with Heaslip.

Fireball07

bilston wrote: »

Henry has captained Ulster loads. I don't think he should captain Ireland though!

Heaslip is the obvious call. Even if POC is fit I'd go with Heaslip.

Really? Interesting... could you say why? Because I rate POC extremely highly as a captain.


(And hypothetically if both POC and Heaslip were injured, would you pick Henry ahead of the rest?)

Grimebox

I think its difficult for fans to speculate who could be a possible captain. You would have to be very close to the team to properly gauge. Heaslip is the obvious choice since he has captained Leinster on a few occasions already.

tolosenc

thomond2006 wrote: »

No ROG or Neil Francis poll option?

I'm desperately trying to finish a college assignment a the moment. Maybe my serious attitude to that carried over to here. Where I was also hard at work...

Yamanoto

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Bent I reckon could do a job as captain... Sure why not!

There is actually precedent - Rob Saunders captained Ireland on his debut iirc

Dietsquirt

Mike Ross?

irishbucsfan

Harrison Brewer

jacothelad

Fireball07 wrote: »

He's the only other player in the squad who's captained his side on a somewhat regular basis. And he was chosen again last weekend, he's obviously got some leadership qualities.


(That is unless Henry has been captain of Ulster, I'm not actually sure)

Henry has also captained the Wolfhounds i think.

Quint2010

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Harrison Brewer

He might declare for The All Blacks! Revenge for Michael Bent...:D

Timothy Bryce

Isn't Heaslip still unbeaten as a captain?

Hersheys

Am I remembering wrong or did Heaslip already captain Ireland? I'm thinking against one of the Pacific nations in the RDS, Sexton kicked 6/6 on his debut. I could be wrong.

Fishooks12

bilston wrote: »

Henry has captained Ulster loads. I don't think he should captain Ireland though!

Heaslip is the obvious call. Even if POC is fit I'd go with Heaslip.

Rationale behind this? Not saying Heaslip is a bad captain but POC is a superb leader. I think it was a huge mistake making Dougie captain at Munster

Swiwi

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Rationale behind this? Not saying Heaslip is a bad captain but POC is a superb leader. I think it was a huge mistake making Dougie captain at Munster

I agree. I don't ever recall Doug being touted as leadership material in NZ (although ?he captained Auckland grammar - certainly he was Head Prefect) - and he plays wing, which is never a great position from which to captain.

Fireball07

Swiwi wrote: »

I agree. I don't ever recall Doug being touted as leadership material in NZ (although ?he captained Auckland grammar - certainly he was Head Prefect) - and he plays wing, which is never a great position from which to captain.

Dougie's always been a decent leader for us, along with ROG he tends to organise the backs... but he's no Paulie. And you're right about a wing not being a great captain.

He could have been captain in the absence of POC, like MOD used to be.

bilston

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Rationale behind this? Not saying Heaslip is a bad captain but POC is a superb leader. I think it was a huge mistake making Dougie captain at Munster

The rationale is what Kidney said himself this week. POC has his fitness issues that he has to deal with, maybe the captaincy is the last thing he needs. Will POC be fit to play both tests?

CatFromHue

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I think it was a huge mistake making Dougie captain at Munster

Who else is there though? POC has only played a few games for Munster so far this season and is now with the Irish set up. Some of the other candidates for the job will also be with the Irish set up.

Doug will be there for the whole season and is a Senior player who's opinion will be listened to.

Fishooks12

CatFromHue wrote: »

Who else is there though? POC has only played a few games for Munster so far this season and is now with the Irish set up. Some of the other candidates for the job will also be with the Irish set up.

Doug will be there for the whole season and is a Senior player who's opinion will be listened to.

Although the lack of other options is probably the reason he got it. I've been less than impresses with some of his decision making as captain in games. Plus I generally don't like the idea of a winger captain

.ak

Yep, back 3 players shouldn't be captains imo.

decisions

Heaslip is the best option. Who can argue with a 100% record?

Other than Dekki. I would not be that surprised if it was POM.

Fishooks12

decisions wrote: »

Heaslip is the best option. Who can argue with a 100% record?

Other than Dekki. I would not be that surprised if it was POM.

Me. It's a team game. I don't read into Heaslip's 100% record as captain. He's playing for a club that is basically favorites to win every game they play anyway.

His on-field leadership is far more important than his record as captain which isn't very relevant at all once you peel back the layers

irishbucsfan

I'm not convinced by Heaslip as a captain just yet. It's not like we have a huge pool of leaders to select from though.

The truth is it'll be a pretty natural selection. Whoever is the strongest candidate is generally very evident to those in the squad. I think it'll be Heaslip or DOC.

Quint2010

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm not convinced by Heaslip as a captain just yet. It's not like we have a huge pool of leaders to select from though.

The truth is it'll be a pretty natural selection. Whoever is the strongest candidate is generally very evident to those in the squad. I think it'll be Heaslip or DOC.

DOC isn't even guaranteed his place in the team whereas Heaslip is.

molloyjh

Are we still doing this?

Heaslip is probably our 4th choice captain behind Best, POC and Drico. That, by definition, means he's not as good as these guys. What it does mean is that he is a better option than the remaining squad members. He may not be fantastic - one thing that annoys me a bit about him as captain is that he doesn't talk to and question the ref enough - but he is a good leader.

I wouldn't have him over the other 3 lads, but similarly there's nobody else outside of those 3 that I'd have ahead of him right now.

Quint2010 wrote: »

DOC isn't even guaranteed his place in the team whereas Heaslip is.

If POC was out he probably would be starting.

irishbucsfan

Quint2010 wrote: »

DOC isn't even guaranteed his place in the team whereas Heaslip is.

Well obviously DOC would have to start against South Arica to be made captain. And I'd say he'll start if POC is absent.

danthefan

How can you pick a captain who'll just be dropped when everyone is fit? It's the same argument for POM. He shouldn't be in the team as it stands and he should be lucky to make the bench when SOB gets back.

irishbucsfan

danthefan wrote: »

How can you pick a captain who'll just be dropped when everyone is fit? It's the same argument for POM. He shouldn't be in the team as it stands and he should be lucky to make the bench when SOB gets back.

It's just a temporary captain. Whoever it is would lose it as soon as BOD, POC or Best returned. It just needs to be someone starting against South Africa.

P_1

Heaslip for me, don't think he's lost a match yet as captain for Leinster