"Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them"

Ososlo

HelenAnne wrote: »

Do come to RR's club! We are not scary! (RR will confirm that). We are also possibly a bit less structured at the non-elite levels than would suit some people, but everyone is v friendly and encouraging, and you do find your group / level.

You should come to a race some Tuesday night (8pm start, 7 euro, 2 miles, tea & biscuits after) - you could race, or if you didn't want to you could just watch, but the tea and biccies after is a great way to meet people and you could chat to people about coming down to run. Every Tuesday night from now till about 12 Sep. You'd be v welcome.

what's the race HelenAnne? I'm due a 5k pace session early next week so might consider replacing it with a race if it's a 5k or shorter.
I know it's all in my head about clubs and you guys seem really welcoming, it's just my own issues about being the slowest runner of all time EVER... Reminds me of primary school when i always came last Bitter bitter memories:(
Better let you back to your log RedRunner! you get out tonight?

Ososlo

Ososlo wrote: »

what's the race HelenAnne? I'm due a 5k pace session early next week so might consider replacing it with a race if it's a 5k or shorter.
I know it's all in my head about clubs and you guys seem really welcoming, it's just my own issues about being the slowest runner of all time EVER... Reminds me of primary school when i always came last Bitter bitter memories:(
Better let you back to your log RedRunner! you get out tonight?

doh... just saw that you said it's a 2 mile race.

RedRunner

Thursday 8th August

A few more very easy miles tonight without any major issues. Not going to get too excited yet but I'm very happy today:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D. Won't be running tomorrow due to heavy work day and going out for a few pints tomorrow night. Probably no harm. If I can get another 5 in on saturday and a half decent LSR on Sunday I will be very happy.

5.62mi easy @9:13

Avg HR: 132
Max HR: 155


WTD|11.5
MTD|17.67
YTD|739.44

RedRunner

HelenAnne wrote: »

Do come to RR's club! We are not scary! (RR will confirm that). We are also possibly a bit less structured at the non-elite levels than would suit some people, but everyone is v friendly and encouraging, and you do find your group / level.

You should come to a race some Tuesday night (8pm start, 7 euro, 2 miles, tea & biscuits after) - you could race, or if you didn't want to you could just watch, but the tea and biccies after is a great way to meet people and you could chat to people about coming down to run. Every Tuesday night from now till about 12 Sep. You'd be v welcome.

+1 to that and Helen's muffins are legendary;)
Those races are great sessions alright. I won't be doing any for a while yet I'd say.
You could join us for a long run on the Sunday morning some time too if you'd like that either.

Ososlo

RedRunner wrote: »

+1 to that and Helen's muffins are legendary;)
Those races are great sessions alright. I won't be doing any for a while yet I'd say.
You could join us for a long run on the Sunday morning some time too if you'd like that either.

thanks, very kind. Problem with my lsrs is that i'm running to my heart rate so it doesn't work running with other people for the moment. I'd be interested in giving the Tuesday session a go. I'm really considering joining properly after DCM though. When hopefully I'll be a little bit faster:D

Delighted to see you had a nice easy pain free run tonight. Really hope you're back on track by weekend for the long run.

RedRunner

^^^ Thanks a lot. Really appreciate the kind words. All helps in the recovery process. Be sure to give us notice if you are heading down to one of the races so i can head down and say hello.

HelenAnne

Ososlo wrote: »

what's the race HelenAnne? I'm due a 5k pace session early next week so might consider replacing it with a race if it's a 5k or shorter.
I know it's all in my head about clubs and you guys seem really welcoming, it's just my own issues about being the slowest runner of all time EVER... Reminds me of primary school when i always came last Bitter bitter memories:(
Better let you back to your log RedRunner! you get out tonight?

It's the Lord mayor series mentioned here:

http://rahenyshamrock.ie

you can look at results under the results tab and see that there's a huge range of speeds. Register in club house from 7.15 (location is on website I think!) and race starts at 8. It's two laps of a housing estate.

I only made muffins once, which is why they've passed into legend, but sometimes other more reliable people do bake!

HelenAnne

Ososlo wrote: »

Delighted to see you had a nice easy pain free run tonight. Really hope you're back on track by weekend for the long run.

Yes, glad you're back running, hop you stay injury free. You were v sensible to rest when it started to niggle and hopefully that's nipped it in the bud. Sorry for all the off-thread chat - you can have your log back now! How far are you going on Sunday? I'm hoping for 17 but may be too tired by then.

RedRunner

HelenAnne wrote: »

Yes, glad you're back running, hop you stay injury free. You were v sensible to rest when it started to niggle and hopefully that's nipped it in the bud. Sorry for all the off-thread chat - you can have your log back now! How far are you going on Sunday? I'm hoping for 17 but may be too tired by then.

Not at all. Enjoyed reading it.

My plan says 18 for Sunday but doubt that I'll go that far. I'll play it by ear and see how I feel. I may set off a bit earlier and do the first few miles really really slow and let you guys catch up with me.

HelenAnne

I'd say I will be quite slow. I thought I'd race on Tuesday after the half on Monday but my legs had a different opinion on that - especially after having to walk to & from work because of the bus strike.

RedRunner

HelenAnne wrote: »

I'd say I will be quite slow. I thought I'd race on Tuesday after the half on Monday but my legs had a different opinion on that - especially after having to walk to & from work because of the bus strike.

I mean really slow, like close to 10 min miles:)
I wouldnt have even contemplated racing the day after a HM. Great time btw in the HM.Was that a PB for you?

The walk to work and home, even though it probably didnt seem like it at the time, I'd say will have helped your legs recover from the HM. Almost like a recovery run:)

Ososlo

RedRunner wrote: »

I mean really slow, like close to 10 min miles
I wouldnt have even contemplated racing the day after a HM. Great time btw in the HM.Was that a PB for you?

The walk to work and home, even though it probably didnt seem like it at the time, I'd say will have helped your legs recover from the HM. Almost like a recovery run:)

Canova states that some Kenyan top runners regularly run their recovery and easy pace runs at 8/9 min/mile pace. I think that allows you run a few lsrs at 10 min/mile pace RedRunner! don't knock it!

RedRunner

^^Most definitely:D;)

HelenAnne

Ososlo wrote: »

Canova states that some Kenyan top runners regularly run their recovery and easy pace runs at 8/9 min/mile pace. I think that allows you run a few lsrs at 10 min/mile pace RedRunner! don't knock it!

I am constantly quoting Catherina McKiernan now that I've done my Chi Running course, but she was telling us that when the African runners first started doing cross country races that she was at, that the Europeans couldn't believe how slowly they warmed up, but that it was a different story once the gun went. So definitely don't knock slow!

Thanks, RR, yes it was a biggish PB for me, down from 1.44xx to 1.37.xx, so i was pretty happy. Felt quite comfortable until about 11 miles as well, and then just had to grit my teeth and sing inspirational rock songs in my head for the last 2!

Ososlo

Well done on the race HelenAnn! Am in awe!!!
R R i hope you don't mind me infiltrating your log again but maybe one of you could tell me how many people generally do those Tuesday races and what would slowest times be? I'd be really lucky to go sub 15:40 for two miles and don't wanna be last thanks guys.

HelenAnne

Ososlo wrote: »

Well done on the race HelenAnn! Am in awe!!!
R R i hope you don't mind me infiltrating your log again but maybe one of you could tell me how many people generally do those Tuesday races and what would slowest times be? I'd be really lucky to go sub 15:40 for two miles and don't wanna be last thanks guys.

You can see them here for the last 6 or so:

http://www.rahenyshamrock.ie/results

There's a really big range of times, and anyway, in smaller races coming last is no problem (you won't, but it isn't a big problem anyway!) - I've come last & 2nd last in club races in the past. And it'a not like a half marathon where there could be HOURS between first and last, it will only be about a ten minute wait between first and last, and that's nothing!

RedRunner

Saturday 10th August

Easy Run. Hammy a bit niggly. Probably just my body's way of warning me to take it easy. Very dehydrated after last night's pints. Not sure how far I'll go in morning now. Will decide on the run itself I think.

5.41mi easy @9:07

Avg HR: 134
Max HR: 156


WTD|16.91
MTD|23.08
YTD|744.85

RedRunner

Ososlo wrote: »

Well done on the race HelenAnn! Am in awe!!!
R R i hope you don't mind me infiltrating your log again but maybe one of you could tell me how many people generally do those Tuesday races and what would slowest times be? I'd be really lucky to go sub 15:40 for two miles and don't wanna be last thanks guys.

No problemo!;)

+1 to what Helen says and as you can see from results, no danger of you finishing last anyway.:)

RedRunner

Hamstring not feeling good.:-(. its like this problem just wont feckin go away! So frustrated.
May have to give LSR a miss tmw. :-(:-(:-(
Will see how it feels in morning.

HelenAnne

Really sorry to hear that. Get well soon.

menoscemo

Red, I am going to play devils advocate here. I see you ran a few runs really slow this week which I think is good. In future I suggest that you do your easy runs at 9:30+ pace and your recovery runs even slower. I see you often do your easy runs at MP or just a bit slower ( not much). I think if you learn to slow things down you won't get injured so much. Remember: easy runs easy and hard runs hard. It's hard at first but I think if you concentrate on holding good form while running slowly you won't get injured as much in the future....

RedRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

Red, I am going to play devils advocate here. I see you ran a few runs really slow this week which I think is good. In future I suggest that you do your easy runs at 9:30+ pace and your recovery runs even slower. I see you often do your easy runs at MP or just a bit slower ( not much). I think if you learn to slow things down you won't get injured so much. Remember: easy runs easy and hard runs hard. It's hard at first but I think if you concentrate on holding good form while running slowly you won't get injured as much in the future....

Thanks for the advice Meno. I will do my best to heed it over the next while. I feel like my 3:45 target is quickly slipping away with facing a third low mileage week in a row now.

Abandoned my LSR today as felt it was too risky even to attempt it.

I'm going to skip running for next few days and go full on on the stretching ,rolling and core work and try ease back into it again wednesday/thursday. I might try and get a sprts massage organised too as found that when I was getting these regularly in the past I was avoiding injury. Ah well there are worse things in life that could be happening to me so will just have to grin and bear with it for now.

Serious question though Meno, assuming I could get back to 100% next week after only a couple of easy runs this week and with 10 weeks to go to DCM what should my realistic expectations be? (Assuming 10 injury free weeks)

menoscemo

RedRunner wrote: »

Serious question though Meno, assuming I could get back to 100% next week after only a couple of easy runs this week and with 10 weeks to go to DCM what should my realistic expectations be? (Assuming 10 injury free weeks)

I think your target is very achievable. Without any injuries I do believe you would have been capable of faster.
Just think of where you are this year compared to where you were this time last year: times much improved, more miles covered for the year and I assume you have already done more long runs? You are in a much better position to run a much better marathon than last year. 8-10 weeks solid training will just be the icing on the cake; don't rush back next week: ease into it.

RedRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

I think your target is very achievable. Without any injuries I do believe you would have been capable of faster.
Just think of where you are this year compared to where you were this time last year: times much improved, more miles covered for the year and I assume you have already done more long runs? You are in a much better position to run a much better marathon than last year. 8-10 weeks solid training will just be the icing on the cake; don't rush back next week: ease into it.

Thanks. I just did a quick analysis of Jan1-Aug11 for 2012 and 2013 and this is how they compare:

Miles run:

2012- 392
2013- 741

Long Runs 10+ Miles

2012- 3 incl Clontarf HM (12,13,12)

2013 - 15 ( 1x 10, 6 x 12, 5x 13, 2x 14 and 1x 16)

This makes me feel slightly better:)

RunningKing

Ok - I've wrote a post 3 times and deleted it as it was too harsh - but I cant say it without being harsh.

Do you think the stats above are a reason why you are injured more?
In 2013, upto end May - I had 1 run over 11m and only 3 over 10.

Part of me thinks that since you joined the club, the extra exuberance of running with others causes you to run faster & longer than you should. ?????

Maybe I'm wrong - but I'd love to help you get to the bottom of the injuries!!

Ososlo

Like RunningKing, I also would love to see you getting to the bottom of your injuries as I love your enthusiasm and can identify with so much of what you post.
I know people will say, what would she know she's only a novice (some people in particular:rolleyes:) but I personally don't think your mileage increase is the issue at all but I do think your effort levels are probably too hard despite what your heart rate readings seem to be telling you. They confuse me a bit at times. As a matter of interest, how did you find out your max heart rate?
Just speaking personally, last year was my first full year running and i was running everything at what I would now consider "medium pace". Not too hard or not too easy but I'd feel I had a good workout after each session. This year most of what I run is easy aerobic miles but when I do have a session, I'm killing myself, like at 5k pace reps or whatever. I haven't had any injuries this year. I had loads last year. Any tiny niggles can be sorted with a foam roller. Just my 2 cents and I know by most people's standards I'm not well placed to be giving anyone running advice but I personally feel that everyone has something important they can impart to another runner whatever their level. I'd look at effort levels more than mileage increase as a root to your problems as i think you did increase quite gradually? Maybe I'm wrong.

RedRunner

RunningKing wrote: »

Ok - I've wrote a post 3 times and deleted it as it was too harsh - but I cant say it without being harsh.

Do you think the stats above are a reason why you are injured more?
In 2013, upto end May - I had 1 run over 11m and only 3 over 10.

Part of me thinks that since you joined the club, the extra exuberance of running with others causes you to run faster & longer than you should. ?????

Maybe I'm wrong - but I'd love to help you get to the bottom of the injuries!!

Thanks for caring A !

I don't think you are being harsh though. I made a conscious decision after DCM12 to do more mileage this year even before I joined the club. I don't think that in itself is why I've had these injuries as I feel I was fairly controlled in the early part of the year and increased gradually.

In Dec & Jan I had back problems due to bulging disc . In Feb I injured hamstring during a Park Run so that was all before the high mileage. However you could be right about maybe running faster than I should be with the club runs perhaps. Part of it though is that this year I am simply more comfortable at the slightly faster pace for the easy runs. I mean at what point in your progression do you say "Ok I can now run easy runs at x pace rather than y pace that I used to do?"

In recent weeks the mileage had definitely peaked and maybe the hamstrings were weakened and gave up on me and thats where I am at now. I'm also a bit sore now in my right hip flexor which is the injury I got last August.

So I've got tight hamstrings,regular lower back pain(which is manageable and rarely causes me any problems while running)and hip flexor issue. I think there is a connection between all three perhaps? I have stretches I think for all of these so am going to try and get plenty of these in this week. Can't really afford a spate of physio visits at the moment, too many other expenses so this will have to be a DIY approach for the most part.

RunningKing

Good points.
Maybe you're just a crock?

RunningKing

Ososlo wrote: »

Like RunningKing, I also would love to see you getting to the bottom of your injuries as I love your enthusiasm and can identify with so much of what you post.
I know people will say, what would she know she's only a novice (some people in particular:rolleyes:) but I personally don't think your mileage increase is the issue at all but I do think your effort levels are probably too hard despite what your heart rate readings seem to be telling you. They confuse me a bit at times. As a matter of interest, how did you find out your max heart rate?
Just speaking personally, last year was my first full year running and i was running everything at what I would now consider "medium pace". Not too hard or not too easy but I'd feel I had a good workout after each session. This year most of what I run is easy aerobic miles but when I do have a session, I'm killing myself, like at 5k pace reps or whatever. I haven't had any injuries this year. I had loads last year. Any tiny niggles can be sorted with a foam roller. Just my 2 cents and I know by most people's standards I'm not well placed to be giving anyone running advice but I personally feel that everyone has something important they can impart to another runner whatever their level. I'd look at effort levels more than mileage increase as a root to your problems as i think you did increase quite gradually? Maybe I'm wrong.

Very well put.

menoscemo

RedRunner wrote: »

So I've got tight hamstrings,regular lower back pain(which is manageable and rarely causes me any problems while running)and hip flexor issue. I think there is a connection between all three perhaps? I have stretches I think for all of these so am going to try and get plenty of these in this week. Can't really afford a spate of physio visits at the moment, too many other expenses so this will have to be a DIY approach for the most part.

These are pretty much the same issues that have been plaguing me for the last year. I spent literally hundreds on Physio visits to no avail before a few visits to ECOLI cured everything... I have had a reoccurance again recently but he has miraculously made it disappear once more.He has given me a few stretched to do and any day I feel a pull in the hip/back I do a set of those stretches and it eases off. I recommend you PM him to see if he can have a look at you (he isn't too dear as he is only an apprentice )