prevent burst pipes

seefin

Am in horrors of being without water if pipes freeze or worse a pipe bursting. Know there are measures to help prevent but am totally impractical and wouldn't know where to start to insulate pipes, even fit a stopcock cosy(been doing my research!! ). don't suppose there's inservice in cork that would do basis insulation. anything I've found online seems to be lining cavity walls whereas I just want a hangman type service from someone who's experienced and knows cheap ways of insulating. anyone know of any many offering this service in city area?

seanhalpin

For a "hangman service" there was a guy knocking around by the name of Albert Pierpoint who did it but he died in 1992. Not sure if anyone else is doing it.

mikom

seanhalpin wrote: »

For a "hangman service" there was a guy knocking around by the name of Albert Pierpoint who did it but he died in 1992.

That's "noose" to me......

seefin

mikom wrote: »

That's "noose" to me......

I was wondering what the hell ye were on about until went back and read what id written. Doh! Worse, stupid thing is posted 3 times too,have to go back and edit although am loath to as yer comments won't make any sense to others and by god,they're good and deserve to be read and appreciated!

Dob74

seefin wrote: »

Am in horrors of being without water if pipes freeze or worse a pipe bursting. Know there are measures to help prevent but am totally impractical and wouldn't know where to start to insulate pipes, even fit a stopcock cosy(been doing my research!! ). don't suppose there's inservice in cork that would do basis insulation. anything I've found online seems to be lining cavity walls whereas I just want a hangman type service from someone who's experienced and knows cheap ways of insulating. anyone know of any many offering this service in city area?

Get a plumber. Buyvthe material yourself, it shouldn't cost more the 100 for labour 50 for material

Dob74

seefin wrote: »

Am in horrors of being without water if pipes freeze or worse a pipe bursting. Know there are measures to help prevent but am totally impractical and wouldn't know where to start to insulate pipes, even fit a stopcock cosy(been doing my research!! ). don't suppose there's inservice in cork that would do basis insulation. anything I've found online seems to be lining cavity walls whereas I just want a hangman type service from someone who's experienced and knows cheap ways of insulating. anyone know of any many offering this service in city area?

Get a plumber. Buyvthe material yourself, it shouldn't cost more the 100 for labour 50 for material

corkgsxr

pm sent.

Fighting Irish

leave your water running

Spindle

Fighting Irish wrote: »

leave your water running

Please don't or everybody else will be without water or worse low pressure.

Spindle

Did you have an issue with pipes freezing before in your house?

A simple tip if pipes in your attic froze before and you have a power source up there, stick in a plug in light on a timer, the heat from the blub in all but the coldest weather should keep the pipes free.

Also even a simple solution is to place a few mats over your stopcock just to keep it a bit insulated.

If your supply froze in your pipes outside the house, it would be a bigger job of digging up the pipes and laying them deeper and placing insulation on or around them.

seefin

Spindle wrote: »

Did you have an issue with pipes freezing before in your house?

A simple tip if pipes in your attic froze before and you have a power source up there, stick in a plug in light on a timer, the heat from the blub in all but the coldest weather should keep the pipes free.

Also even a simple solution is to place a few mats over your stopcock just to keep it a bit insulated.

If your supply froze in your pipes outside the house, it would be a bigger job of digging up the pipes and laying them deeper and placing insulation on or around them.

Have light in attic and luckily hasn't frozen there to date.I need to put extra insulation there anyway so said might be good time to protect tank etc(someone said that the more insulation in attic,the more chance of attic freezing cos less heat coming up from house? )
any idea how much might cost to put pipes lower from stopcock to house? That's where has previously frozen. Again would general plumber do this?

Fighting Irish

Spindle wrote: »

Please don't or everybody else will be without water or worse low pressure.

lol

Ludo

Spindle wrote: »

Please don't or everybody else will be without water or worse low pressure.

Yes coz low pressure is soooo much worse than no water. :rolleyes:

ABajaninCork

seefin wrote: »

Have light in attic and luckily hasn't frozen there to date.I need to put extra insulation there anyway so said might be good time to protect tank etc(someone said that the more insulation in attic,the more chance of attic freezing cos less heat coming up from house? )
any idea how much might cost to put pipes lower from stopcock to house? That's where has previously frozen. Again would general plumber do this?

Eh?? Heat RISES. If the tank/loft is well insulated, why would it freeze?
I find the best thing to do is simply open the loft hatch for that reason. (If the loft is insulated in the first place!)

I don't understand why people would leave the water running. What on earth for?? It doesn't stop the pipes from freezing. It wastes water. What would happen when the water meters come in? Would you be running the water in the same way?

rebelden

I don't understand why people would leave the water running. What on earth for?? It doesn't stop the pipes from freezing. It wastes water. What would happen when the water meters come in? Would you be running the water in the same way?[/QUOTE]

Keeps the system running thus stops the pipes freezing.

ABajaninCork

rebelden wrote: »

I don't understand why people would leave the water running. What on earth for?? It doesn't stop the pipes from freezing. It wastes water. What would happen when the water meters come in? Would you be running the water in the same way?

Keeps the system running thus stops the pipes freezing.[/QUOTE]

Like I say. It doesn't. People tried that a couple of winters ago. Guess what? It didn't work.

corkgsxr

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Keeps the system running thus stops the pipes freezing.

Like I say. It doesn't. People tried that a couple of winters ago. Guess what? It didn't work.[/QUOTE]

It does work. Running water won't freeze. Only needs to be a small flow.

Max_Charger

corkgsxr wrote: »

It does work. Running water won't freeze. Only needs to be a small flow.

Running water can, and will freeze. It's the fact the tap is on so there is no build up of pressure in the pipe between where the water freezes and the tap. The ice doesn't burst the pipe, it's the build up of pressure from the water from the expanding ice in the pipe that bursts it.

ABajaninCork

Max_Charger wrote: »

Running water can, and will freeze. It's the fact the tap is on so there is no build up of pressure in the pipe between where the water freezes and the tap. The ice doesn't burst the pipe, it's the build up of pressure from the water from the expanding ice in the pipe that bursts it.

Thank you!! I've never come across this before, being English. NOBODY I know has the idiotic idea of running water in a bid to keep the pipes clear. For a start, like I've said it doesn't work.

Secondly, the pipes tend to be buried deep enough and are properly lagged. Something that doesn't always happen here especially with newer build properties, as I've learned to our cost.

Thirdly, we have water rates with some houses already metered, so people tend not to do this as we have to pay for the water! Like I've said, what will happen when you have to start paying for it?

OP - Just make sure you have adequate insulation for the loft and tank. Make sure your pipes are properly lagged. If you can, make sure the outside pipes are buried deep enough to minimise the risk of freezing (and bursting).

Ludo

Funny how the three houses with water on our road a couple of years ago were the ones who had left the water running. Some coincidence.

joydivision

Moving water freezes just the same as stagnant water does . Iv fixed countless pipes burst by ice . Its always houses with bad or no insulation .
Insulate the ceiling/roof of the attic and pipes in shafts and floor . Insulate tanks in attic .
Think about it its costing you a fortune heating the house uninsulated but you are paying to do that and then constantly wasting water by running it which has absolutely no benefit .
What if the waste pipe trap freezes and you leave your sink overflowing all day ?

Cian92

Moving water freezes at a temperature alot lower than 0C. Why do lakes freeze before rivers etc. It makes sense to keep you water running if your pipes aren't properly insulated. You aren't charged for water now so don't worry about it (it isn't like we have a shortage of it in this country).

Obviously it is better if you have your own pump and you will never have to pay for water.

corkgsxr

Max_Charger wrote: »

Running water can, and will freeze. It's the fact the tap is on so there is no build up of pressure in the pipe between where the water freezes and the tap. The ice doesn't burst the pipe, it's the build up of pressure from the water from the expanding ice in the pipe that bursts it.

In the 2 bad winters only froze once, the night herself turned off the cold tap

joydivision

Holy jaysus . The top of the lake freezes not the whole lake . But go for it run tap all day .

mordeith

Cian92 wrote: »

(it isn't like we have a shortage of it in this country).

This kind of comment is what's wrong with this country. Lots of rain doesn't equal lots of drinking water. People seem to have no idea of the processing that goes into providing clean drinking water. Hopefully water meters will put an end to the shocking waste of water that goes on. Of course the relevant councils also need to step up and repair the leaks in the system.

ABajaninCork

joydivision wrote: »

Holy jaysus . The top of the lake freezes not the whole lake . But go for it run tap all day .

I know, I know. I've never seen anything like it until I moved here. I've found a lot of the newer properties are a triumph of style over substance. Hardly any have damp proofing which I would've thought would be a must, given the climate. Inadequate insulation (if there was any at all), inadequate ventilation, so you have problems with mold. Outside pipes too shallow, hence the problems of freezing and bursting. Then we have the bright idea of running the taps!!

Unbelievable.

Cian92

mordeith wrote: »

This kind of comment is what's wrong with this country. Lots of rain doesn't equal lots of drinking water. People seem to have no idea of the processing that goes into providing clean drinking water. Hopefully water meters will put an end to the shocking waste of water that goes on. Of course the relevant councils also need to step up and repair the leaks in the system.

Simply put if you have your own well there isn't much processing at all that goes into providing drinking water. It is installed once and works for years on end.

I can't see how people can argue that running water freezes at the same temperature as still water (just google it if you don't believe me).

It is up to people how they maintain their water supply during the cold spell, I can tell you though that in my house we will continue to leave the tap running.

corkgsxr

mordeith wrote: »

This kind of comment is what's wrong with this country. Lots of rain doesn't equal lots of drinking water. People seem to have no idea of the processing that goes into providing clean drinking water. Hopefully water meters will put an end to the shocking waste of water that goes on. Of course the relevant councils also need to step up and repair the leaks in the system.

A grow up ffs, Ireland's problem is min 50% is gone before it reaches houses. But it's cheaper to charge you for it than fix the pipes

pwurple

Cian92 wrote: »

Moving water freezes at a temperature alot lower than 0C. Why do lakes freeze before rivers etc. It makes sense to keep you water running if your pipes aren't properly insulated. You aren't charged for water now so don't worry about it (it isn't like we have a shortage of it in this country).

Obviously it is better if you have your own pump and you will never have to pay for water.

What a stupid thing to say. It falls from the sky into your taps and toilet cistern does it? Cleaned, filtered and pumped? I cannot WAIT for water meters to be installed to slap some sense into morons like this.

People take so much for granted, but this one takes the piss altogether. What do you think they do at all those water treatment plants, sit around eating biscuits all day?

mordeith

corkgsxr wrote: »

A grow up ffs, Ireland's problem is min 50% is gone before it reaches houses. But it's cheaper to charge you for it than fix the pipes

As I said in my post the councils should address this problem . . . ffs.
And how does charging for it solve the problem? They still need to fix the infrastructure. Charging will prevent people wasting it on crap like sprinkling their lawns and washing their cars by standing there with a running hose.

Spindle

Cian92 wrote: »

Moving water freezes at a temperature alot lower than 0C. Why do lakes freeze before rivers etc. It makes sense to keep you water running if your pipes aren't properly insulated. You aren't charged for water now so don't worry about it (it isn't like we have a shortage of it in this country).

Obviously it is better if you have your own pump and you will never have to pay for water.

What about the people who then suffer low water pressure, due to the massive drain on the whole system, by leaving water running. When that happens I can no longer have showers, I suppose I can call over to your house to use the shower then.

Just to correct the science (fresh) water freezes at 0c, it doesn't matter if that is in a lake or river. Water has a unique property that at 4c it reaches maximum density. At this point the water sinks to the bottom causing warmer less dense water to rise. Once the body of water reaches 4c throughout this process stops and the top layer can be cooled to below 4c and will stay on top as it is less dense. Eventually it will be cooled to freezing point.

So a body of moving water that is all at 4c or below can still freeze no matter if it is moving or not. It is just with moving water there are more factors like the energy(causes slight heating) created from it moving etc that make it slightly harder for this process to complete.

The short answer if you have a problem with freezing pipes lay them deeper and insulate them, then you won't have any problems.

Ludo

Surely it is nothing to do with the freezing point of stagnant v flowing water, but that slightly warmer water is coming into the system and therefore preventing freezing. I don't usually advocate leaving the water flowing but as for low pressure preventing you having a shower...boo hoo. Wash other ways. At least you have water to wash with, flush the toilets etc etc.

After being without water for christmas eve, christmas day and stephens say a couple of years ago I will be letting the water trickle in the main tap in the house if it goes below about -7/-8 again. Trying to cook christmas dinner that day was not fun...lack of a shower was the least of the problems in fairness. Tough choice...dig up the drive way and lay pipes deeper or let the tap trickle away...I know which I will do.

Spindle

Ludo wrote: »

Surely it is nothing to do with the freezing point of stagnant v flowing water, but that slightly warmer water is coming into the system and therefore preventing freezing. I don't usually advocate leaving the water flowing but as for low pressure preventing you having a shower...boo hoo. Wash other ways. At least you have water to wash with, flush the toilets etc etc.

After being without water for christmas eve, christmas day and stephens say a couple of years ago I will be letting the water trickle in the main tap in the house if it goes below about -7/-8 again. Trying to cook christmas dinner that day was not fun...lack of a shower was the least of the problems in fairness. Tough choice...dig up the drive way and lay pipes deeper or let the tap trickle away...I know which I will do.

I suppose this is what is to be expected in Ireland today, look out for yourself and screw everyone else as long as you are okay doesn't matter.

I was without water for 2 weeks after the floods broke the pumping station. So don't get me started on not being without water, after they "fixed" the situation so we had a trickle of water, it took another few weeks of me hounding the council before they finally admitted there was an issue in our area with pressure which they then fixed.

That was a horrible experience let me tell you and as we only have a shower, it is very hard to was in a basin. Then to top it all off after getting it back we had the cold spell, idiots leaving on taps reducing pressure in the system and what do you know, no showers on Christmas day, until the cold spell was over.

The sooner they start charging for water in this country the better, because people don't know how to share resources until you hit them where it hurts in the pocket.

Ludo

You needing a full pressure shower while others have nothing is not sharing. You are taking the same attitude as myself from the other side. Ideally I none of us would suffer but im not gonna leave my family without water when leaving it trickle may prevent it.

Maybe they will sort the infrastructure when they start charging. Ha ha.

rebelden

Tis getting cold, better turn on the tap.

Ludo

Gotta be at least minus 8...probably closer to minus ten before it even becomes an issue. Probably wont happen all winter.

yenom

Put anti Freeze in the pipes?

Outkast_IRE

yenom wrote: »

Put anti Freeze in the pipes?

Yum anti freeze in my tea, tasty

Ludo

yenom wrote: »

Put anti Freeze in the pipes?

Hmmm...someone suggesting putting anti-freeze in water pipes...this thread has just been flagged for possible terrorist activity by the FBI and Dept of Homeland Security in the States :eek:

yenom

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Yum anti freeze in my tea, tasty

Boil the water like, it's better than having burst pipes and surley you can go a few weeks without drinking it like.

joydivision

This thread is a strong case against the republic of cork happening . Anti freeze in the constantly running water pipes sure yer in rebel county now boys .
I think its best we leave it to the boys in the pale to come up with the ideas from now on .

yenom

joydivision wrote: »

This thread is a strong case against the republic of cork happening . Anti freeze in the constantly running water pipes sure yer in rebel county now boys .
I think its best we leave it to the boys in the pale to come up with the ideas from now on .

No, seriously it will work, I've done it last year, it's was fine, it didn't even stain the clothes in the washing machine. We didn't risk having a shower though, went to our cousins but it was worth it because the pipes didn't break.

Outkast_IRE

yenom wrote: »

No, seriously it will work, I've done it last year, it's was fine, it didn't even stain the clothes in the washing machine. We didn't risk having a shower though, went to our cousins but it was worth it because the pipes didn't break.

Couldnt you of just timed the heating to come on a few times while you were away ? or put some insualtion on your pipes ?

Rather than risking posioning yourselves ?

Max_Charger

yenom wrote: »

No, seriously it will work, I've done it last year, it's was fine, it didn't even stain the clothes in the washing machine. We didn't risk having a shower though, went to our cousins but it was worth it because the pipes didn't break.

I honestly thought you were taking the piss, why did you anti freeze when alcohol would of done the same thing, with a lot less chance of dying.

yenom

Max_Charger wrote: »

I honestly thought you were taking the piss, why did you anti freeze when alcohol would of done the same thing, with a lot less chance of dying.

We didn't know alcohol would of worked, that said it was around Christmas so it likely would of been drank anyway. What type of alcohol? Out of Wine or Lager? I might try that as I was just on the internet looking for anti freeze again but the price seems to of gone up.

el Bastardo

Ludo wrote: »

You needing a full pressure shower while others have nothing is not sharing. You are taking the same attitude as myself from the other side.

I wasn't without water at all, but I got no showers during the cold snap because of the low mains pressure.

Power showers need a minimum pressure to work. t's all or nothing with a power shower, so not a question of not sharing.

Spindle

Ludo wrote: »

You needing a full pressure shower while others have nothing is not sharing. You are taking the same attitude as myself from the other side. Ideally I none of us would suffer but im not gonna leave my family without water when leaving it trickle may prevent it.

Maybe they will sort the infrastructure when they start charging. Ha ha.

el Bastardo wrote: »

I wasn't without water at all, but I got no showers during the cold snap because of the low mains pressure.

Power showers need a minimum pressure to work. t's all or nothing with a power shower, so not a question of not sharing.

As Bastardo said without pressure it was the case of no shower at all.

If you really want to be sure your family has water anyway, why don't you just bury the pipes. Makes a lot more sense, believe me you don't want to be without water for 2 weeks. At least the ball is in your court, trying to deal with the council with regards water issues, is like talking to a brick wall.

corkgsxr

remember when they turned off the mains to stop people running water and the main lines froze. cost them alot more in the end.

personally i couldnt care what water i use. im not wasteful with it but untill they make a reasonable attempt to fix the mains. dont take to me about waste.


if they really cared they could put in block metering. much faster to do. another month and they would be done already.

very easy to detect big leaks. if a area spikes, theres a leak. if one area seems to use a abnormal amount of water. hey maybe theres a leak.

but no they couldnt bill ye for that so go for the more expensive option that tells them nothing about the mains pipes

Ludo

Spindle wrote: »

As Bastardo said without pressure it was the case of no shower at all.

If you really want to be sure your family has water anyway, why don't you just bury the pipes. Makes a lot more sense, believe me you don't want to be without water for 2 weeks. At least the ball is in your court, trying to deal with the council with regards water issues, is like talking to a brick wall.

As I said ...tough choice :

Let tap connected to mains on very low for the one or two nights every 4 or 5 years (one in my lifetime that I can remember) where the temps hit -10.

OR

Pay someone thousands to dig up the patio, driveway and public footpath as far as the stopcock, rework all the pipes to be buried deeper and then repave the whole thing properly again....with no guarantee that it would actually work.

I am usually careful about wasting water. I don't leave it running while washing up,brushing teeth, washing car, etc, etc so it isn't like I am someone who thinks nothing about the value of water but this is a no brainer really no matter how wrong it is.
Paying for water won't have any affect on this by the way as I would still do it for the very vary rare time it might be needed.

joydivision

corkgsxr wrote: »

remember when they turned off the mains to stop people running water and the main lines froze. cost them alot more in the end.

personally i couldnt care what water i use. im not wasteful with it but untill they make a reasonable attempt to fix the mains. dont take to me about waste.


if they really cared they could put in block metering. much faster to do. another month and they would be done already.

very easy to detect big leaks. if a area spikes, theres a leak. if one area seems to use a abnormal amount of water. hey maybe theres a leak.

but no they couldnt bill ye for that so go for the more expensive option that tells them nothing about the mains pipes

Right think about what you said . There is huge leaks in the mains . The council turned the water off . The pipes froze . Wouldnt the huge leaks be the same as having a tap on ? I think somebody is doing a bit of makey uppy here.

Ludo

That isn't what he said. He said they turned off the water to stop people wasting water. Not over a leak.