Kildare GAA in Dire Financial Straits?

cormac halpin

What with the high profile cases of Clubs in trouble around the county, its very worrying to see County Boards also in trouble, and none more so than Kildare. How long are the GAA going to continue to bail counties like Kildare out?

Two special case loans in the one year, even if they did call one of them an "advance". This unique loan now, the first of its kind, to the tune of 400,000, how long can this be allowed go on? Kildare burning good money while all the other Counties attempt to live within in their means, why is one county allowed do its business like this? Their county grounds are woefully inadequate, to the extent that they may not be allowed host NFL games there this year. We have to ask, where is the money in Kildare GAA going?

Is there something to be said for suspending them from intercounty action for 12 months perhaps? How else will they learn, because they don't seem to be learning, do they?

Kildare to clear debts with unique Croker loan

The GAA and Kildare are preparing to finalise another unique loan facility to help alleviate the county board's ongoing financial troubles.

Following on from the €300,000 'advance' last April, a new tranche of money, thought to be between €300,000 and €400,000, is to be forwarded to the board to help clear off historical debts that have built up and allow them to begin 2013 with a clean slate.

In exchange for the facility, the finer details of which have yet to be thrashed out between the county, Leinster Council and Croke Park -- who met last week -- they will be subjected to the strictest possible financial controls which will be overseen by both provincial and Central Councils.

Former Munster Council secretary Simon Moroney has been working with the county on finances since the April advance but input will now come directly from Croke Park and Leinster Council's finance department. It is understood that the new agreement will be arranged as a term loan.

Different

This is different from the previous facility agreed in April, where Kildare got in excess of €300,000 in advance money that would have been payable to them anyway at the end of the year through commercial and competition revenues, team expenses and games development and administration grants. Most of that money would have been transferred by now.

At the time Kildare were adamant that such a facility was not tantamount to a bailout, but it was a unique arrangement between Croke Park and a county board.

A term loan to clear off debts that have accrued from day-to-day running of a board is thought to be unprecedented.

Kildare have railed against the focus on their finances when so many other counties are dealing with heavy debts but GAA sources are adamant that their case is different because it involves debts built up from day-to-day spending.

In an interview last weekend the county's commercial director Marty McEvoy, who is also their Central Council delegate, painted an upbeat picture and said they were "fighting back" but acknowledged that 2012 had been tough.

Kildare have got their spending under control but McEvoy acknowledged the need to generate much greater revenue in 2013 and pointed to a figure of €190,000 which is projected to be generated by the end of the year.

Kildare's deficit has built up gradually over the last number of years to in excess of €700,000.

On the year-end balance sheet, team expenses were among the biggest costs and even though these have fallen dramatically over the last two years they amounted to €525,000 this year.

Prior to confirmation of Kieran McGeeney's continuation as Lilywhites manager for a sixth season, chairman John McMahon revealed that the board only had to pay €270,109 towards the running of the senior team.

The county are also seeking new sponsorship after Tegral ended a 20-year association but given their profile as a Division 1 team who have reached five successive All-Ireland quarter-finals, they remain a strong commercial entity.

They are also determined to play all four home league matches in St Conleth's Park despite the restriction on capacity, with attractive ties against Donegal, Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone.

The GAA's health and safety committee will play a key role in deciding if the Newbridge venue, where Kildare hope to increase capacity to 8,000, can host those ties.

- Colm Keys

nice_guy80

I know that they owe a lot of physios and other local businesses money for services provided to the senior footballers

DARK-KNIGHT

Can I ask cormac as a Laois man why have you chosen to single Kildare out? Many counties are horsing cash into the game!!! Hawk field has a lot to do with Kildare owing the money they do.

But sure the Kildare county board will deal with this don't worry!!!

How are Laois finances doing cormac??

DiH

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Can I ask cormac as a Laois man why have you chosen to single Kildare out?

Maybe because Kildare has now received two advances/loans from Central Council??

DARK-KNIGHT

DiH wrote: »

Maybe because Kildare has now received two advances/loans from Central Council??

But there is no suggestion that those loans won't be paid back Kildare are doing the right thing and being open with hq on the financial situation in the county, it's not like the panel are dining out eating steak dinners an d drinking 5 pints each llke nothing wrong being said or done!! As I said before the financial problems are stemming from the money that was thrown into hawkfield which is a training and development centre just outside newbridge.

The situation is that because of a training centre Kildare are in red financially won't be forever thanks to hq helping county board out. The gaa are all for developing the game which is exactly what Kildare are doing so in a way the gaa can work with Kildare on debt due to the fact that a huge amount of money being spent on developing the game..

cormac halpin

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Can I ask cormac as a Laois man why have you chosen to single Kildare out? Many counties are horsing cash into the game!!! Hawk field has a lot to do with Kildare owing the money they do.

But sure the Kildare county board will deal with this don't worry!!!

How are Laois finances doing cormac??

I'm not sure why you think I am from Laois my friend, for I am not. I am a concerned fíorghael and Kildare GAA is a mess right now and it should not be swept under the carpet any longer.

As for the Laois County Board, I am unaware of their financial straits, but I'm confident they, nor any other County Board are over 700,000 in debt, and if and when it comes to light that they are, we will discuss them then, agreed?

I find your last line quite amusing, the Kildare County Board will deal with this. It would appear they are incapable of dealing with it, and like an errant child have been taken to task not once, but twice by daddy this year alone. You shouldn't act so defensive, it does little for your argument.

DiH wrote: »

Maybe because Kildare has now received two advances/loans from Central Council??

What he said.

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

But there is no suggestion that those loans won't be paid back Kildare are doing the right thing and being open with hq on the financial situation in the county, it's not like the panel are dining out eating steak dinners an d drinking 5 pints each llke nothing wrong being said or done!! As I said before the financial problems are stemming from the money that was thrown into hawkfield which is a training and development centre just outside newbridge.

The situation is that because of a training centre Kildare are in red financially won't be forever thanks to hq helping county board out. The gaa are all for developing the game which is exactly what Kildare are doing so in a way the gaa can work with Kildare on debt due to the fact that a huge amount of money being spent on developing the game..

Many other County Boards have gone about developing training centres and grounds without going nearly 1 million euro in debt, why are Kildare to be patted on the back for coming running to Croke Park with a begging bowl. And to come running not once, but twice beggars belief. You commend them for begging for loans rather than hide it, but the debt has been let run up so high up to now.

You can feel free to hide your head in the sand, but it will not make this problem go away. The Kildare Footballers went on a warm weather training camp last year, not exactly austerity given the financial situation!

DARK-KNIGHT

cormac halpin wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think I am from Laois my friend, for I am not. I am a concerned fíorghael and Kildare GAA is a mess right now and it should not be swept under the carpet any longer.

As for the Laois County Board, I am unaware of their financial straits, but I'm confident they, nor any other County Board are over 700,000 in debt, and if and when it comes to light that they are, we will discuss them then, agreed?

I find your last line quite amusing, the Kildare County Board will deal with this. It would appear they are incapable of dealing with it, and like an errant child have been taken to task not once, but twice by daddy this year alone. You shouldn't act so defensive, it does little for your argument.



What he said.


Many other County Boards have gone about developing training centres and grounds without going nearly 1 million euro in debt, why are Kildare to be patted on the back for coming running to Croke Park with a begging bowl. And to come running not once, but twice beggars belief. You commend them for begging for loans rather than hide it, but the debt has been let run up so high up to now.

You can feel free to hide your head in the sand, but it will not make this problem go away. The Kildare Footballers went on a warm weather training camp last year, not exactly austerity given the financial situation!

to be honest the way you have been posting saying Kildare were like an errant child with a begging bowl?? All I have to say is you have a cheek being completely honest. And yes your from Laois and from your point of view I call rivalry and bitterness sweeping into your posts! You are not addressing point politically without throwing begging bowl insults into the pot. For that reason I see this as trolling.

What has happened has happened the county board are paying the price now by having to be partially regulated budget wise from croke park. Thanks for bringing an issue we have been aware of for past few years to light and insulting Kildare with begging bowl comments.

To be honest if you had been more straight forward without throwing digs I and I'm sure many others would take this thread more seriously and discussed it but your insults are uncalled for!

cormac halpin

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

to be honest the way you have been posting saying Kildare were like an errant child with a begging bowl?? All I have to say is you have a cheek being completely honest. And yes your from Laois and from your point of view I call rivalry and bitterness sweeping into your posts! You are not addressing point politically without throwing begging bowl insults into the pot. For that reason I see this as trolling.

What has happened has happened the county board are paying the price now by having to be partially regulated budget wise from croke park. Thanks for bringing an issue we have been aware of for past few years to light and insulting Kildare with begging bowl comments.

To be honest if you had been more straight forward without throwing digs I and I'm sure many others would take this thread more seriously and discussed it but your insults are uncalled for!

There are no digs, there are no insults, you are perceiving there to be insults and digs that aren't there. You are incredibly offensive with me for some time now and I honestly can't understand it. If you are unwilling to debate the thread, then please leave it for fíorghaels who wish to do so.

I will try not to address you any further until you have something worthwhile to say as it will do me or the thread any good.

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I know that they owe a lot of physios and other local businesses money for services provided to the senior footballers

This sounds quite serious, in these difficult financial times you'd hate to see any local business left short of cash. Is this definitely true nice_guy? How long has it been going on for?


I wonder is it possible the Kidare footballers would do something to help their county board out going forward perhaps forego any future holidays as a gesture of goodwill to getting things back on track in their county?

Pride Fighter

Dark Knight, there is no secret anti-Kildare agenda at work here. Leave things as they are.

To both Cormac and Dark Knight, you's have been bickering on this and other threads on the forum the past few days. If you's dont both stop doing this, I'll ban you's both for 2 weeks.

Regards,

Pride Fighter

DARK-KNIGHT

The simple fact of matter is Kildare have seeked two advances from HQ to try to get ahead of game and to make sure the county set up runs as normal, although it isn't ideal that they are in the red it has been very much to do with developing hawkfield a few years ago.

I am completely aware that it shouldn't have gotten to this point but it has and I commend the board by being proactive in going to HQ and trying to address the issues at hand. Remember this is a term loan apparently not a handout! So begging bowl comment is unnecessary IMO!

Also I am unaware of business's in Kildare being left unpaid and unless evidence can prove otherwise is a random Internet statement.

Maybe it's just me but if another county were in the same place money wise I wouldn't be criticising them for going to seek help from HQ. the irresponsible thing would be to bury heads and not seeking assistance. Surely the fact that they are trying to address the problem says it all really.

hardybuck

My own county, Waterford, are €700,000 in debt. Similar to Kildare we had a succession of outside managers who bled us dry, which was overseen by a succession of County Board Chairmen who were happy to give it over to them.

Another similarity we have with Kildare is that we don't have a stadium good enough to hold Munster Championship games, denying us further income. This is particularly galling as we traditionally brought very large crowds to games, but all this ticket revenue ended up lining the pockets of the Cork and Tipp County Boards.

However, one key difference to Waterford's approach thus far is their determination to handle the problem in-house. We will have local county managers for the hurlers and footballers for the forseeable future, and our Chairman confirmed in an interview this morning that they are determined not to request assistance from central powers.

Should the County Boards be trusted with their own funds? I'd like to think so, but it appears that they cannot be. Counties should be forced to produce business cases and budgets at the start of the year, and reviewed every quarter like any other business. The GAA need to take the bull by the horns here.

DARK-KNIGHT

hardybuck wrote: »

My own county, Waterford, are €700,000 in debt. Similar to Kildare we had a succession of outside managers who bled us dry, which was overseen by a succession of County Board Chairmen who were happy to give it over to them.

Another similarity we have with Kildare is that we don't have a stadium good enough to hold Munster Championship games, denying us further income. This is particularly galling as we traditionally brought very large crowds to games, but all this ticket revenue ended up lining the pockets of the Cork and Tipp County Boards.

However, one key difference to Waterford's approach thus far is their determination to handle the problem in-house. We will have local county managers for the hurlers and footballers for the forseeable future, and our Chairman confirmed in an interview this morning that they are determined not to request assistance from central powers.

Should the County Boards be trusted with their own funds? I'd like to think so, but it appears that they cannot be. Counties should be forced to produce business cases and budgets at the start of the year, and reviewed every quarter like any other business. The GAA need to take the bull by the horns here.

i couldn't agree more the GAA needs to be more proactive to see where money is being spent to be honest! My issue was that Kildare were pointed out whilst other counties are in similar situations!! So this isn't solely a Kildare issue more an issue for all counties to be looking at!! Hardy buck great post btw!!

County ground for Kildare is a big problem as while it is ok for smaller games but any crowds and saint conleths just can't cope

hardybuck

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

i couldn't agree more the GAA needs to be more proactive to see where money is being spent to be honest! My issue was that Kildare were pointed out whilst other counties are in similar situations!! So this isn't solely a Kildare issue more an issue for all counties to be looking at!! Hardy buck great post btw!!

County ground for Kildare is a big problem as while it is ok for smaller games but any crowds and saint conleths just can't cope

I think you've got to take a step back and look at the people who are put forward for management roles at Board level. While nobody can criticise their commitment as voluntary officials giving up their time, how competent are they and is it appropriate for some of them to be responsible for the running of a business?

While I can't speak for Kildare, I wouldn't be confident of the officials in Waterford. If I was considering investing in a business and found out that some of those guys were in management roles I'd run a mile.

County grounds - big issue for us is geography. While we aren't a massive county, we're split into East and West divisional boards. As a result we have Walsh Park in Waterford City which can take a crowd of about 8-9000 and Fraher Field in Dungarvan which can hold a crowd of about 6,000. Instead of having one good stadium, we have two mediocre ones. At board level both sides of the county couldn't agree as each side felt the main stadium should have been in their locality.

DARK-KNIGHT

hardybuck wrote: »

I think you've got to take a step back and look at the people who are put forward for management roles at Board level. While nobody can criticise their commitment as voluntary officials giving up their time, how competent are they and is it appropriate for some of them to be responsible for the running of a business?

While I can't speak for Kildare, I wouldn't be confident of the officials in Waterford. If I was considering investing in a business and found out that some of those guys were in management roles I'd run a mile.

County grounds - big issue for us is geography. While we aren't a massive county, we're split into East and West divisional boards. As a result we have Walsh Park in Waterford City which can take a crowd of about 8-9000 and Fraher Field in Dungarvan which can hold a crowd of about 6,000. Instead of having one good stadium, we have two mediocre ones. At board level both sides of the county couldn't agree as each side felt the main stadium should have been in their locality.

i do know mcgeeneys back room team are expensive and his expenses are meant to be very high!! I hope Glenn Ryan and Anthony rainbow have aspirations of the Kildare post in years to come as I would imagine expenses for either or would be a hell of a lot less than geezer!! Plus either of them would be ideal managers to work in the county!!

Don't get me wrong geezer has done wonders fitness wise etc but it has been expensive apparently to have him in charge!!

But Kildare desperately need to redevelop saint conleths!!!

Waterford set up is crazy two small county grounds?? Ridiculous tbh

Tom Joad

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

But Kildare desperately need to redevelop saint conleths!!!

Is this really a runner though - While I like saint conleths as a ground and have attended many games there over the years - its a real pain in the end to get into and out off and parking at big games in Newbridge is a nightmare. Would Kildare not be better spending money developing another ground in a better location or is hawkfield an option for a county ground location - seems daft to me looking in from outside the county to be spending money redeveloping a ground that is not really practical..

cormac halpin

Tom Joad wrote: »

Is this really a runner though - While I like saint conleths as a ground and have attended many games there over the years - its a real pain in the end to get into and out off and parking at big games in Newbridge is a nightmare. Would Kildare not be better spending money developing another ground in a better location or is hawkfield an option for a county ground location - seems daft to me looking in from outside the county to be spending money redeveloping a ground that is not really practical..

The problem is Kildare don't have the finances to spend money developing another ground.

DARK-KNIGHT

Tom Joad wrote: »

Is this really a runner though - While I like saint conleths as a ground and have attended many games there over the years - its a real pain in the end to get into and out off and parking at big games in Newbridge is a nightmare. Would Kildare not be better spending money developing another ground in a better location or is hawkfield an option for a county ground location - seems daft to me looking in from outside the county to be spending money redeveloping a ground that is not really practical..

If it was up to me Tom I would have had a plan drawn up to build a new stadium outside of newbridge town centre and I think saint conleths could have been used as a development or training facility there is ample room around the pitch to build or extend the clubhouse and put gym facilities etc in place!!

But I know what you mean newbridge is in a terrible place for getting to a game or getting out away from a game especially since the whitewater shopping centre was built. But the romantic part of me loves saint conleths the memories as a boy with my dad ( a dub) lol and myself roaring to see my county his adoptive county play!!

Many a happy and a sad day in that grounds for me but all wonderful memories!!! If only Kildare had a grounds like breffni or Parnell 2 grounds I really like btw!!!

With a league opener against AI champs first up in saint conleths I cannot wait

Tom Joad

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

If it was up to me Tom I would have had a plan drawn up to build a new stadium outside of newbridge town centre and I think saint conleths could have been used as a development or training facility there is ample room around the pitch to build or extend the clubhouse and put gym facilities etc in place!!

But I know what you mean newbridge is in a terrible place for getting to a game or getting out away from a game especially since the whitewater shopping centre was built. But the romantic part of me loves saint conleths the memories as a boy with my dad ( a dub) lol and myself roaring to see my county his adoptive county play!!

Many a happy and a sad day in that grounds for me but all wonderful memories!!! If only Kildare had a grounds like breffni or Parnell 2 grounds I really like btw!!!

With a league opener against AI champs first up in saint conleths I cannot wait

I can understand the attachment to conleths and its a ground I like and have attended many a game there. The Whitewater has made access 100 times worse and I have also noticed less tolerance from residence about parking (legally of course) in estates on match days and can't say i'd blame them.

It would seem a shame to throw hard cash at St Conleths when its never going to be suitable in this day and age. Breffni is a good contrast as they could build a new pitch beside the current ground and it has loads of room around it for development and it can be a hub for gaa in the county plus it is on the edge of town so parking is never a huge issue.

Greenngold

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

If it was up to me Tom I would have had a plan drawn up to build a new stadium outside of newbridge town centre and I think saint conleths could have been used as a development or training facility there is ample room around the pitch to build or extend the clubhouse and put gym facilities etc in place!!

But I know what you mean newbridge is in a terrible place for getting to a game or getting out away from a game especially since the whitewater shopping centre was built. But the romantic part of me loves saint conleths the memories as a boy with my dad ( a dub) lol and myself roaring to see my county his adoptive county play!!

Many a happy and a sad day in that grounds for me but all wonderful memories!!! If only Kildare had a grounds like breffni or Parnell 2 grounds I really like btw!!!

With a league opener against AI champs first up in saint conleths I cannot wait

With all due respect, Parnell Park isn't much better than St Conleths. It only holds 10,000 but sure the Dubs rarely have to play there anyways:)

DARK-KNIGHT

Greenngold wrote: »

With all due respect, Parnell Park isn't much better than St Conleths. It only holds 10,000 but sure the Dubs rarely have to play there anyways:)

It may indeed only hold 10,000 but I would have thought that would be sufficient for league games. But apart from numbers it has great facilities, saint conleths toilet facilities etc are very poor!

DiH

Greenngold wrote: »

With all due respect, Parnell Park isn't much better than St Conleths. It only holds 10,000 but sure the Dubs rarely have to play there anyways:)

It has seats and a stand that wasn't made from an old barn sawn in half

DARK-KNIGHT

DiH wrote: »

It has seats and a stand that wasn't made from an old barn sawn in half

Hey don't diss our barn

68Murph68

Some more details in the article below.

The bit about Kerry Group sponsoring them seems massively pie-in-the-sky to me. Really find it hard to see Kerry Group wanting to get involved with Kildare when they already are sponsoring Kerry GAA. With 02 ending its sponsorship deal with Cork I think they might need to reassess what levels of money companies would be willing to pay to be involved in being the main sponsor. The suggestion that being involved in Division One as opposed to Division Two is going to be a critical factor in helping to attract a sponsor is pretty laughable. Obviously it wont hurt, but ask yourself how much, if any, a company would be willing to pay for Division One versus Division Two?

There also seems to be an assumption that they simply stopped fundraising as opposed to the fact that the economy is in the toilet and likely to get a lot worse before it gets any better. "The truth is we simply stopped raising sufficient funds -- it wasn't that we were spending a whole pile more. But we have to accept what has happened and work harder to help the supporters' club."

On a related note I believe is should be a condition that all GAA clubs/counties and other entities should have to publish their financial accounts on their websites. Much more open and accessable than simply having them available at an AGM.

Lilies see light at end of financial tunnel

By DAMIAN LAWLOR
Sunday October 28 2012
KILDARE GAA officials are confident that they will attract a new sponsor in the coming weeks and are adamant they will play four high-profile league games at St Conleth's Park next season.

Despite facing the prospect of their financial independence being threatened -- and the suggestion that they would have to switch their 2013 home league campaign to a neutral venue -- the Lilywhites' executive are optimistic about next season.

After being forced to move a home qualifier with Limerick to Portlaoise because of capacity issues -- the Newbridge venue can only hold 8,000 people -- doubt was also cast on the ground's potential to host box-office clashes with Donegal, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone next spring.

But speaking to the Sunday Independent, commercial director Marty McEvoy alleviated those concerns and said they are planning to hold all home league fixtures at the Newbridge venue. "We will play four games at home in St Conleth's Park, that is definite, even if it means those games will be all ticket," he confirmed. "We have massive support and we have to look after them. It will be a considerable financial boost to us too."

McEvoy says the board's immediate priority, however, is to have a new backer in place by Christmas following Tegral's move to step down following 20 years of unbroken support.

"We have had a very tough year, we know that better than anyone," he acknowledged.

"It has led to plenty of media coverage, and we've had a run of headlines, but we've also worked extremely hard to improve our finances and we're fighting back. We've cut expenditure and the bottom line is we now need to raise more funds. That's an area we need to improve in -- and something that we have to help our supporters' club with but we're committed. The first target is to have a new sponsor in place.

"People know the situation that many county boards are in but Kildare GAA has a massive profile and a lot going for us -- we've been All-Ireland quarter-finalists in each of the last five years and now we're back in Division 1 next season with the other big boys."

Undeterred by having their financial affairs plastered across the national media, and the constant wave of publicity the Seánie Johnston transfer saga attracted, McEvoy has started the process of unearthing a new backer and will hold a second series of meetings with three interested parties this week. There is a public assumption that Kerry Group, who recently announced up to 900 jobs for Naas over the coming years, should step into the role of sponsors but market sources said that the consumer foods company might not want to dilute its existing deal with the Kerry footballers.

"The market is difficult at the moment but I wouldn't be too worried," the commercial director added. "We are an attractive proposition -- we're one of only two counties with shop selling activity -- the WhiteWater Shopping Centre in Newbridge has a footfall of over 100,000 people per week and we sold over 4,000 replica jerseys in 2012 as well as in excess of 10,000 leisure wear garments with the sponsor's name. We have a lot to offer."

The board is currently preparing its accounts for December's annual convention with a running deficit that has risen to over €700,000.

But former Munster Council secretary Simon Moroney has been working with the county since April as part of the deal for a €300,000 cash advance required to buy them time and they have made severe budgetary cuts since then.

In addition, over €190,000 is projected to be generated by the end of this year, which will help improve their situation.

This year's expenditure on county teams was reduced from €750,000 to €525,000, with just €270,109 of that spent on the senior footballers, which diminishes the theory that their preparations were chiefly responsible for compounding their financial woes.

"There was just no truth to the thinking that all the money was going on the senior footballers, that was a myth," McEvoy insisted.

"The truth is we simply stopped raising sufficient funds -- it wasn't that we were spending a whole pile more. But we have to accept what has happened and work harder to help the supporters' club. The perception is that Kildare is a very wealthy county with the horse racing industry and other figures residing here but we have had to examine every possible way of raising funds."

McEvoy rejected the suggestion that they had over-stretched in building the centre of excellence at Hawkfield which cost around €3.5m.

"Absolutely not -- that facility is used every single night," he said. "If it's not the senior footballers it's the hurlers and there are three to four development squads and ladies football and camogie teams that use it too. It has been one of the great investments in Kildare GAA and will continue to be. It was money well spent."

- DAMIAN LAWLOR

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/lilies-see-light-at-end-of-financial-tunnel-3276698.html

bruschi

I'm not sure why Kildare shouldnt be singled out like they are here, and I'm not sure why Darkknight you are getting so upset over that. Plenty of counties are in debt, but I dont see loans being handed out to them for it.

I'll give you a small example. Wexford are in debt, due to a shambolic attempt of buying grounds for development, selling them at a loss, and buying more expensive ones in a worse area. so the whole development is behind schedule. This year the majority of funds were stripped everywhere, none more so than at development squads and underage level, where our underage players couldnt get gear for their sides. yet they play Kildare who are still togged out in their full tracksuit and gear bags at their newly developed grounds.

You may call it jealousy, thats fair enough, but I dont see why a county in huge debt and is being effectivly bailed can still afford to spend so much on essentially one sport, where a county like ours is stripped to the bone on a much less serious debt with no handout.

To put it in relative economic terms, it'd be like if Greece was taking all the Germans money and spending it on big shiny new buildings and roads, while we are still penny pinching and being taxed under the same terms.

68Murph68

Was wondering what other counties are in problems and came across the following article from last February. Hard to see how things would have improved all that much in the last few months given the economic situation.

Seems that this is an area where Croke Park should be constantly monitoring the situation rather than just relying on annual accounts. The fact that the different county boards use different methodologies in completing their accounts is just madness. They should use a standard approach to facilitate comparison.

Also it seems that a lot of the problems seem to stem from debt for capital projects. Personally I think that borrowing should only have a very limited role for clubs and county boards. Bring in a rule that only minimal borrowing for day-to-day expenses and that borrowing for capital infrastructure should only be a last resort and limited to a maximum of 50% of any project. This would mean that instead of spending money and then trying to figure out a way to pay for it, a sensible approach is taken.

Also worth remembering that there are also supposedly a number of clubs with significant financial issues.

Third of counties deeper in the red

A growing number of county boards are failing to balance their books on an annual basis, as an analysis of the audits of the 32 counties reveals.

With warning shots being fired from senior administrators as late as last Monday when Leinster chief executive Michael Delaney highlighted the issue in some counties in his province, it has emerged that over a third of all county boards ran deficits for 2011.

It's a worrying development for the GAA, whose units have, by and large, always had the ability to balance their books effectively.

But with sponsors unable to meet obligations and revenue streams falling faster than costs in many cases, on top of greater depreciation estimates, the number of counties in the red on a year-to-year basis appears to be growing.

The largest annual deficit was recorded in Westmeath, which came in with a loss of close to €250,000.

SERIOUS

They had to write off sponsorship money owed and a loan to a subsidiary board, and with a one-off medals bill to address as well, these exceptional items contributed significantly to their loss. For a county of its size it was a serious deficit to have to deal with.

The problems in Kildare, Tipperary and Waterford have been well documented as they too recorded six-figure deficits.

Tipperary have gone through an extensive cost-cutting programme and their team expenses fell considerably. Overall expenditure fell by 13pc but that still wasn't sufficient to stem the outward flow. Another 7.5pc cut in expenditure has been pencilled in for 2012 but local gate receipts took the biggest hit last year.

Kildare's problems have also been well flagged but significant steps have been taken to address them. They are currently seeking up to 1,000 supporters to contribute €1,000 each to help alleviate the debt. Still, over the last four years, their deficit, according to their auditors, has rolled up to €570,000.

Some of the deficits are small -- the likes of Carlow were just €5,787 off breaking even and if depreciation costs were excluded, it would probably take them back into profit.

Sligo estimate that more than half of their €78,000 deficit was down to the county team's early exit from the championship, while Fermanagh suffered badly as Club Eirne's help dried up, with a split in the dressing-room affecting their season.

Wexford's deficit doesn't seem too problematic but it masks the greater losses that have been accrued in some development deals that went badly and were aired at a recent meeting by new chairman Diarmuid Devereaux.

Not surprisingly, Cork head the list of counties who have turned massive profit on their operations in 2011.

When their members' draw and ground revenue account is taken on board they come in with a surplus of almost €500,000.

Tyrone County Board have also turned an impressive profit. They operated at a £45,284 profit but with a contribution from Club Tyrone of £354,006 -- specifically ringfenced for their development at Garvaghy -- the actual surplus is £399,290 which, when converted is is excess of €470,000.

Cavan have shown prudence in their affairs with cost-cutting across the board helping to turn out a €152,000 profit.

Not every county audits the same way, so income and expenditure figures can differ because of contra items and ticket sales.

Kilkenny, Kerry and Galway all recorded tidy profits, while Mayo also came in almost €109,000 in surplus.

But that figure doesn't conceal the broader challenges they face, with some €11.6m debts on McHale Park hanging over them.

Some counties in Leinster have managed to turn their financial fortunes around impressively and are bucking the wider trend.

Five years ago, Louth had reported losses for 2007 of €119,000 but for 2011 their profit was €91,719.

Laois have also turned their situation around in just 12 months by over €300,000, as a €216,417 deficit in 2010 was replaced by a €97,919 surplus.

Offaly and Wicklow managed to reverse their fortunes too, with both back in profit.

Dublin feature just outside the top 10 in surplus, with €92,594 of income over expenditure after a year that saw them spend some €1.7m on their teams.

The overall picture, however, is one of concern for counties, and on Monday Delaney was not slow about attributing blame -- in some cases to excess spending on team administration.

He also called for greater control to be exerted by boards and for the alarm bells to be sounded much earlier than they are now.

DARK-KNIGHT

bruschi wrote: »

I'm not sure why Kildare shouldnt be singled out like they are here, and I'm not sure why Darkknight you are getting so upset over that. Plenty of counties are in debt, but I dont see loans being handed out to them for it.

I'll give you a small example. Wexford are in debt, due to a shambolic attempt of buying grounds for development, selling them at a loss, and buying more expensive ones in a worse area. so the whole development is behind schedule. This year the majority of funds were stripped everywhere, none more so than at development squads and underage level, where our underage players couldnt get gear for their sides. yet they play Kildare who are still togged out in their full tracksuit and gear bags at their newly developed grounds.

You may call it jealousy, thats fair enough, but I dont see why a county in huge debt and is being effectivly bailed can still afford to spend so much on essentially one sport, where a county like ours is stripped to the bone on a much less serious debt with no handout.

To put it in relative economic terms, it'd be like if Greece was taking all the Germans money and spending it on big shiny new buildings and roads, while we are still penny pinching and being taxed under the same terms.

shiny new tracksuits?? Ah bruschi come on now. Kildare don't replace kit at a massive rate more than anyone else.

Geezer carries huge financial burden on the county, a homegrown manager would cost the county a fraction of his "expenses" ****ing wages lets be honest.

Between badly managed funds re hawkfield and huge overheads with managerial team. It delivers huge weight for the county to handle.

Was told by one of Kildare lads playing with a newbridge club today the warm climate training camp (holiday) was more like a reward following promotion to division 1.

I know it wasn't exactly necessary but I'm sure Kildare are not the first county to hold a training camp abroad.

I see what your saying bruschi honestly I do and it is now clear Kildare have to grind the spending to a halt and cop on big style.

I don't think Kildare are above gaa law but what happened with the county funding appears to have been bad management not ridiculously extravagant spending on unnecessary things.

One thing I criticise Kildare for is not putting enough money into hurling. Most of budget is football which is really wrong

Bizzum

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Geezer carries huge financial burden on the county

Any idea how much?

DARK-KNIGHT

Bizzum wrote: »

Any idea how much?

Not gonna try bluff you but I honestly don't know but have heard from insiders into county scene that it is massive.

cormac halpin

68Murph68 wrote: »

Some more details in the article below.

The bit about Kerry Group sponsoring them seems massively pie-in-the-sky to me. Really find it hard to see Kerry Group wanting to get involved with Kildare when they already are sponsoring Kerry GAA. With 02 ending its sponsorship deal with Cork I think they might need to reassess what levels of money companies would be willing to pay to be involved in being the main sponsor. The suggestion that being involved in Division One as opposed to Division Two is going to be a critical factor in helping to attract a sponsor is pretty laughable. Obviously it wont hurt, but ask yourself how much, if any, a company would be willing to pay for Division One versus Division Two?

There also seems to be an assumption that they simply stopped fundraising as opposed to the fact that the economy is in the toilet and likely to get a lot worse before it gets any better. "The truth is we simply stopped raising sufficient funds -- it wasn't that we were spending a whole pile more. But we have to accept what has happened and work harder to help the supporters' club."

On a related note I believe is should be a condition that all GAA clubs/counties and other entities should have to publish their financial accounts on their websites. Much more open and accessable than simply having them available at an AGM.



http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/lilies-see-light-at-end-of-financial-tunnel-3276698.html

The Kerry Group thing is bullshiit, a case of putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with this story. Kerry won't sponsor Kildare GAA, I'm willing to bet on that.

As for fundraising, what about all the fundraising going through the players fund, fair to say we all know where thats going.

I agree with the Wexford poster, its tough to see some county boards bailed out repeatedly, while others struggle to make ends meet. I commend Wexford for their committment to the dual codes and we all know the cost associated with carrying development squads in both codes. Some other counties would do well to catch themselves on.

DARK-KNIGHT

Most counties are lumping money on one or the other sport.

bruschi

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

shiny new tracksuits?? Ah bruschi come on now. Kildare don't replace kit at a massive rate more than anyone else.

I'm not talking about replacing kits. I'm talking about other counties development squads suffering the consequences of the main board actions and funding being cut to try save money, yet a county in worse financial strain and is being bailed out by the GAA are fulling kitting out underage squads to a level other counties would only love to achieve. How can this be fair?

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Geezer carries huge financial burden on the county, a homegrown manager would cost the county a fraction of his "expenses" ****ing wages lets be honest.

Between badly managed funds re hawkfield and huge overheads with managerial team. It delivers huge weight for the county to handle.

and again, with only a comparison to my own county, we have got rid of the outside manager and the financial burden and got in a homegrown manager and postponed out ground development. Why do we have to suffer financial cutbacks, yet Kildare dont and are being bailed out?

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Was told by one of Kildare lads playing with a newbridge club today the warm climate training camp (holiday) was more like a reward following promotion to division 1.

I know it wasn't exactly necessary but I'm sure Kildare are not the first county to hold a training camp abroad.

they wont be the first, no. But they would be the first for a county in massive debt who couldnt afford to do so, and was effectively paid for by the GAA. Why cant other counties act so blaise like this?

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I see what your saying bruschi honestly I do and it is now clear Kildare have to grind the spending to a halt and cop on big style.

I don't think Kildare are above gaa law but what happened with the county funding appears to have been bad management not ridiculously extravagant spending on unnecessary things.

One thing I criticise Kildare for is not putting enough money into hurling. Most of budget is football which is really wrong

fair enough. But I just dont feel like the excuses merit the actions of the Kildare board and how they are currently spending money when they dont have it so spend. Other counties are cutting back hugely, but here are Kildare still flashing the cash, and the GAA just giving them more.

As I said, its pretty much jealousy from my point of view. I have seen the cutbacks affect things terribly here, yet you wouldnt imagine it is that way for Kildare at all. Money is still being spent all around them on their squads and all the benefits they can find for them, whilst most other counties are after stopping all this and are penny pinching to recover debts.

your last point is a fair one too. Kildare are in this much debt carrying one sport, yet we are financially stung carrying both football and hurling.

68Murph68

cormac halpin wrote: »

As for fundraising, what about all the fundraising going through the players fund, fair to say we all know where thats going.

If the GAA were serious about the whole payments to managers issue, they should bring in regulations about the publicly publishing the financial activities of all 3rd party linked entities such as supporters clubs/players funds etc.

Its pretty much common knowledge that these are partly vehicles for paying managers rather having any payments coming from the county board (apart from some amount of generous/over-inflated expenses)

However this wouldn't suit a lot of people in the GAA so don't expect it to happen any time soon.

cormac halpin

The financial situation in Kildare GAA has gone from bad to worse, despite assurances from county board chairman John McMahon that the second bail-out will allow the county to operate with a "clean slate" next year.

On local radio last week, McMahon said: "The budgets we've presented are based on realistic figures on our current situation and what we can raise in 2013 and beyond. There's a certain amount of ambition, yes -- but ambition based on practicality."

The county board has been spending far more than it is earning and this is why it has now required a €700,000 bail-out from the GAA to tackle its debts.

Clubs in Kildare, if they are not already, need to become more engaged in this mess because the consequences for football and hurling in the county are far-reaching if there is not a radical overhaul of expenditure. The fact that the county's day-to-day spending appears to have been out of control for several years is cause for concern and tough questions need to be asked at this year's convention.

jgreene@independent.ie

howiya

Nothing new in that article. Bit of newspaper filler of a Monday morning

68Murph68

howiya wrote: »

Nothing new in that article. Bit of newspaper filler of a Monday morning

Does seem very short of concrete detail. However I cant help but think there is something else going on here.

With the club championships games on yesterday I doubt the paper would be just printing GAA filler on a Monday morning if there wasnt something more behind this.

Clubs in Kildare, if they are not already, need to become more engaged in this mess because the consequences for football and hurling in the county are far-reaching if there is not a radical overhaul of expenditure. The fact that the county's day-to-day spending appears to have been out of control for several years is cause for concern and tough questions need to be asked at this year's convention.

Reading that, if I were involved in a Kildare GAA I'd be looking for detailed records of this day to day spending for the past few years.

I'd also be getting in touch with the author of the piece looking for details of the stuff he couldnt publish. The way the libel laws work in this county mean that in 90% of stories a journalist will know more than is published in a an article but cant print it for fear of a legal action.

The fact that the author directly suggests that the problem with spending isn't related to the development at Hawkfield but has to do with day-to-day spending would have alarm bells going off in my head. Straight away I'd be looking very closely at 1) wages to county board staff 2) expenses claims by staff 3) expenses claims by county board members.

Given the community and volunteer nature of the GAA, its not enough that the right thing is done with regard to money but that also the right thing is seen to be done. I'm basically of the opinion that its impossible to have too much openness and publicity in this area.

I remember talking to someone who was involved with a running a rugby club and he was lamenting the fact that as a result of professionalism and the money that became available, that he felt it was much harder to get parents of players to volunteer/get involved with the running of the club. I'd really hate to see anything similar happen in the GAA.

munchkin_utd

a previous article in the paper last week also mentioned that the case was different from other counties and clubs in that its a day to day expenditure problem rather than spending too much on big ticket infrastructure (which is whats crippling other counties).

whatever the day to day expenditure might be was never mentioned and I couldnt hazzard a guess as to whether the costs are for teams of physios/doctors/psychologists at training or player travel or county officials expenses or anything else for that matter.

There's simply no info out there or even hint on what is going on.

Squidgy Black

I think the Kildare County Board really need to step up and release the accounts. Or make some drastic cuts, and if it has to be in selectors/managers wages then so be it, but it just can't go on the way it is. I understand with the tracksuits and gear bags etc that they give them to players as if it's a reward for the hard work they put in and for volunteering to play and skipping club commitments, you should see the amount of gear the Dublin minors were given this year.

As someone who's club is in financial turmoil themselves, it's hard times and all for clubs and counties alike, but belts need to be tightened.

cormac halpin

howiya wrote: »

Nothing new in that article. Bit of newspaper filler of a Monday morning

The worrying issue from a gaels point of view is that there is no good news coming out of it, and if they're saying that, you can be sure its ten times worse, they've hidden their accounts up this point and are still fobbing the issue.

stetyrrell wrote: »

I think the Kildare County Board really need to step up and release the accounts. Or make some drastic cuts, and if it has to be in selectors/managers wages then so be it, but it just can't go on the way it is. I understand with the tracksuits and gear bags etc that they give them to players as if it's a reward for the hard work they put in and for volunteering to play and skipping club commitments, you should see the amount of gear the Dublin minors were given this year.

As someone who's club is in financial turmoil themselves, it's hard times and all for clubs and counties alike, but belts need to be tightened.

Apples and oranges with regards that bolded part. Also that Dublin side won the Championship.

cormac halpin

Published on Wednesday 7 November 2012 10:02

JOHN McMahon, Chairman of Kildare County Board, has said that a loan of some E500,000 has been agreed between the board, Croke Park and Leinster Council, writes TOMMY CALLAGHAN.

The loan, over a number of years, yet to be determined, will, according to Mr McMahon allow the Kildare County Board to begin 2013 with a ‘clean slate.’

Kildare GAA have been struggling for a number of years to clear its debts and major cut-backs have been implemented over the last twelve months or so to get their finances under control.

It is understood that Croke Park will be keeping a close eye on the Kildare budget to ensure that it’s recommendations are being adhered to and a special internal budget committe has also been set up to monitor its finances on a monthly basis.

DARK-KNIGHT

Well that seals it Kildare have been given a LOAN not a handout. They are moving to cut back on spending and gaa will be monitoring the board to a point..

Alls well that ends well IMO

I will bet anything that geezers contract won't be renewed after this. Glenn Ryan or maybe Anthony rainbow for the job? Or possibly Davy dalton or dare I say it dermot Earley to try get his coaching badges?

Although I love what geezer has done for the county something needs to change drastically while fitness is kildares go to point I feel they need to practice basics and drills more. Too many handling mistakes last year IMO. But no matter what year in year out the jersey is donned and saint conleths awaits for the faithful!!!!

CILL DARA ABÚ

cormac halpin

When Croke Park say they will be closely monitoring this situation I presume they are putting someone on the ground in Kildare to monitor matters? Will cheques need to be co-signed or run by Croke Park? There's a lot of questions here still to be answered. How will this loan of half a million to one county baord affect grants to other counties in the province? I presume we'll be told in due course.

DARK-KNIGHT

cormac halpin wrote: »

When Croke Park say they will be closely monitoring this situation I presume they are putting someone on the ground in Kildare to monitor matters? Will cheques need to be co-signed or run by Croke Park? There's a lot of questions here still to be answered. How will this loan of half a million to one county baord affect grants to other counties in the province? I presume we'll be told in due course.

I think you know croke park won't be putting someone into kildares face to monitor budget. They wouldn't have passed a 500,000 euro LOAN without being 100% confident in Kildare board.

It won't affect any other county as its a loan that Kildare will repay not a handout where gaa will be taking resources from anyone else.

Do you think the gaa would pump a 500,000 loan out without being confident that Kildare will adhere to cutting back on spending?

cormac halpin

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I think you know croke park won't be putting someone into kildares face to monitor budget. They wouldn't have passed a 500,000 euro LOAN without being 100% confident in Kildare board.

How do I know? Do you know?

It won't affect any other county as its a loan that Kildare will repay not a handout where gaa will be taking resources from anyone else.

In a time of financial austerity, how can you say this for sure?

Do you think the gaa would pump a 500,000 loan out without being confident that Kildare will adhere to cutting back on spending?

Kildare's current regieme inspire no confidence, they are €700000 in debt, how in God's name could anyone have confidence in a regieme that allows itself go nearly one million euro in debt and still have infrastructure that is not fit for purpose. If Croke Park had complete confidence in Kildare, then they wouldn't have felt the need to mention how they will keep keeping a "close eye on the Kildare budget".

Kildare are Ireland, the GAA are the EU, and Liam O'Neill is Angela Merkel. I just hope Kildare have someone like Enda Kenny to ensure things are run correctly.

bruschi

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I think you know croke park won't be putting someone into kildares face to monitor budget. They wouldn't have passed a 500,000 euro LOAN without being 100% confident in Kildare board.

It won't affect any other county as its a loan that Kildare will repay not a handout where gaa will be taking resources from anyone else.

Do you think the gaa would pump a 500,000 loan out without being confident that Kildare will adhere to cutting back on spending?

sorry Dark knight, I pretty much disagree with all of that.

The GAA should have someone monitoring Kildares finances. In a year where they already gave them hundreds of thousands of money, they proceded to gleefully spend it on things that should have been cut. Training trip abroad being one for certain. You mentioned other counties do it, maybe so, but other counties in debt after being given a handout should not be doing it.

It does affect other counties. Why doesnt Wexford GAA get a loan and clear our debts? Why cant Roscommon/Mayo every other county get a loan to clear their debts? All of these counties have stringently cut back on their spending to the detriment of development squads, senior squads, training funds etc to try claw back their debts. What makes Kildare so special that they can get a handout they can pay back with no set regulation on the time? and regardless of what you say that it wont take away from money going elsewhere, of course it will. The GAA are now down €800,000 that could have been spent throughout the country this year. Yes, they may well get it back, but over a time period that at the moment is limitless.

And I dont know how they can be confident of getting it back. They gave a handout already, and the debt worsened. Straight away to me that would set alarm bells that these people are not capable of financing their county properly, and it has been said its the day to day spending, which means its an ongoing problem that has not yet been rectified. You say that McGeeney wont be back after this, but they knew of the debts before they re appointed him. As I mentioned before, Ryan is gone from Wexford, and he was costing a lot. I would hazard a guess that had we not been in financial difficulties that he would still be manager.

So again, what gives Kildare such a special priority that they can be given over 3/4 of a million when other counties who are in debt by less than 25% of that are struggling and cutting back severely on their costs?

DARK-KNIGHT

bruschi wrote: »

sorry Dark knight, I pretty much disagree with all of that.

The GAA should have someone monitoring Kildares finances. In a year where they already gave them hundreds of thousands of money, they proceded to gleefully spend it on things that should have been cut. Training trip abroad being one for certain. You mentioned other counties do it, maybe so, but other counties in debt after being given a handout should not be doing it.

It does affect other counties. Why doesnt Wexford GAA get a loan and clear our debts? Why cant Roscommon/Mayo every other county get a loan to clear their debts? All of these counties have stringently cut back on their spending to the detriment of development squads, senior squads, training funds etc to try claw back their debts. What makes Kildare so special that they can get a handout they can pay back with no set regulation on the time? and regardless of what you say that it wont take away from money going elsewhere, of course it will. The GAA are now down €800,000 that could have been spent throughout the country this year. Yes, they may well get it back, but over a time period that at the moment is limitless.

And I dont know how they can be confident of getting it back. They gave a handout already, and the debt worsened. Straight away to me that would set alarm bells that these people are not capable of financing their county properly, and it has been said its the day to day spending, which means its an ongoing problem that has not yet been rectified. You say that McGeeney wont be back after this, but they knew of the debts before they re appointed him. As I mentioned before, Ryan is gone from Wexford, and he was costing a lot. I would hazard a guess that had we not been in financial difficulties that he would still be manager.

So again, what gives Kildare such a special priority that they can be given over 3/4 of a million when other counties who are in debt by less than 25% of that are struggling and cutting back severely on their costs?

Am I right in saying wexfords debt is from chopping and changing development areas outside the town and they were losing money on each site they bought and sold?

I don't think kildares spending is way Ott. I know few county players and they don't get a lot from senior football scene.

Hawkfield caused issues as we couldn't really afford it to be honest, apart from funds given to clubs around the county geezer is getting a fortune for managing the county which is stupid.

Look at saint conleths never really got the attention it needed as board knew they couldn't afford to redevelop.

I'm not saying kildares finances shouldn't be looked at to be honest all counties should be overlooked. But if gaa put someone in to watch over kildares finances they will need paying like an official accountant and maybe a hq official.

I would be interested in seeing a breakdown of costs for past few years to see exactly where that 700,000 went. If it was spent on developing hawkfield that's not too bad as its an investment in the sport for future generations but I'm worried incase all that money hasn't been accounted for.

Also yes county board ran us into debt which is unforgivable maybe a change of board members is needed to freshen things up!!!

bruschi

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Am I right in saying wexfords debt is from chopping and changing development areas outside the town and they were losing money on each site they bought and sold?

I don't think kildares spending is way Ott. I know few county players and they don't get a lot from senior football scene.

Hawkfield caused issues as we couldn't really afford it to be honest, apart from funds given to clubs around the county geezer is getting a fortune for managing the county which is stupid.

Look at saint conleths never really got the attention it needed as board knew they couldn't afford to redevelop.

I'm not saying kildares finances shouldn't be looked at to be honest all counties should be overlooked. But if gaa put someone in to watch over kildares finances they will need paying like an official accountant and maybe a hq official.

I would be interested in seeing a breakdown of costs for past few years to see exactly where that 700,000 went. If it was spent on developing hawkfield that's not too bad as its an investment in the sport for future generations but I'm worried incase all that money hasn't been accounted for.

Also yes county board ran us into debt which is unforgivable maybe a change of board members is needed to freshen things up!!!

Wexford have an ongoing debt from that, but their expendature on finances was more than their income, so the running debt, which seems to be what is indicated to be what Kildare are reporting too, is what is crippling them. It has been mentioned in a few reports that it is not Hawkfield that is causing the debt to Kildare. As you say, if it was just that, then you may have some sort of an excuse, but it doesnt seem to be the case.

As I mentioned previously, our development squads took a massive hit due to debt, whereby most squads got no gear, and couldnt afford to travel to some tournaments. Yet a double Kildare squad through the age groups can still be financed to accomodate full gear for all, which doesnt come cheap. Its hard enough to compete with some counties as it is, but to be stripped to the bone and the rich getting richer, makes it all the more harder.

As I say, its very much jealousy on my side, how can a county afford to spend so much in their teams when in debt, at the same time other counties in less debt cant afford to do anything. I just dont understand the logic in why the GAA can do this for Kildare, but not other counties, or why it is being done for them.

DARK-KNIGHT

bruschi wrote: »

Wexford have an ongoing debt from that, but their expendature on finances was more than their income, so the running debt, which seems to be what is indicated to be what Kildare are reporting too, is what is crippling them. It has been mentioned in a few reports that it is not Hawkfield that is causing the debt to Kildare. As you say, if it was just that, then you may have some sort of an excuse, but it doesnt seem to be the case.

As I mentioned previously, our development squads took a massive hit due to debt, whereby most squads got no gear, and couldnt afford to travel to some tournaments. Yet a double Kildare squad through the age groups can still be financed to accomodate full gear for all, which doesnt come cheap. Its hard enough to compete with some counties as it is, but to be stripped to the bone and the rich getting richer, makes it all the more harder.

As I say, its very much jealousy on my side, how can a county afford to spend so much in their teams when in debt, at the same time other counties in less debt cant afford to do anything. I just dont understand the logic in why the GAA can do this for Kildare, but not other counties, or why it is being done for them.

I can see your point bruschi it would be annoying to be in your position..

I just hope our county board address this properly and sort out the debt..

I have no idea why gaa are doing this for Kildare maybe Kildare have approached them with a good plan to sort out debts etc??

68Murph68

cormac halpin wrote: »

When Croke Park say they will be closely monitoring this situation I presume they are putting someone on the ground in Kildare to monitor matters? Will cheques need to be co-signed or run by Croke Park? There's a lot of questions here still to be answered. How will this loan of half a million to one county baord affect grants to other counties in the province? I presume we'll be told in due course.

From the original article.

In exchange for the facility, the finer details of which have yet to be thrashed out between the county, Leinster Council and Croke Park -- who met last week -- they will be subjected to the strictest possible financial controls which will be overseen by both provincial and Central Councils.

Former Munster Council secretary Simon Moroney has been working with the county on finances since the April advance but input will now come directly from Croke Park and Leinster Council's finance department. It is understood that the new agreement will be arranged as a term loan.

On the basis of that I would presume that any sort of financial decision Kildare GAA make will have to be signed off by someone from Croke Park/Leinster Council.

You're not going to give the same people who've run up a debt of €700k a loan of €500k and not monitor every decision they make.

Basically have a system whereby Kildare GAA have to report on a weekly basis what they spend and what they received in and how this compares to their budget. Doing this you can see very quickly whether Kildare have cut back spending enough. If they are not matching the budget, spending stops straight away and further cuts made. This would be something the Finance Department in Croke Park could monitor very easily and probably wouldnt cost much if anything. Have it subject to spot checks/informal audit every so often so that Croke Park/Leinster Council can be 100% certain the reporting is accurate. It would be blatant stupidity and irresponsible of Croke Park/Leinster Council not to have someone constantly monitoring Kildare's spending until the loan is repaid.

When you look at the situation with Morgan Fuels and O2 cancelling their sponsorship in other counties, I'd be very concerned about the fact that Tegral have ended their sponsorship and how much a new sponsor would be willing to contribute. In the current economic climate any new sponsor who comes on board will only be willing to pay far less than the kind of sponsorship deals that were achieved in the Celtic Tiger days.

When you combine this with the comments from Kildare about attracting a sponsor - (Kildare being a very attractive propostion/being in Division 1 as opposed to Division 2 is something a sponsor will care about/suggesting Kerry Group would be intersted in sponsoring Kildare) I'd be concerned.

As I said before if I were involved with a club in Kildare I'd be demanding that Kildare publish all records of their spending over the past five years along with their budget. If I heard guff about confidentiality/commercially sensitive/privacy I'd be kicking in doors as it would be a massive red flag. The money went somewhere and the board has a moral responsibility to be able to account for this money. If it was legitimate spending that got out of control thats one thing; if it was case of certain individuals or companies lining their pockets at the GAA's expense that is a whole different kettle of fish and the people responsible should be named and shamed.

cormac halpin

Oh yea, Kildare GAA is cutting costs alright, this is a real example of it isnt it?

Jason Ryan is being strongly linked with a role in Kildare manager Kieran McGeeney's backroom team.

The 36-year-old, who greatly raised the Wexford footballers' profile during his five seasons in charge of the Model County, is being tipped to replace Armagh native John Rafferty as coach. McGeeney is also on the lookout for a new selector following Niall Carew's surprise decision to step down last month.

Regarded as one of the top managers in the game, Ryan has already turned down an opportunity to take charge of his native Waterford. He was recently succeeded as Wexford manager by Westmeath native Aidan O'Brien.

And people will say that its ok, some big business man will provide the cash, of course they neglect to point out that where is this big business man when they are looking to clear off a debt of 700,000 or help overhaul their shiitheap of a stadium?

J Cheever Loophole

cormac halpin wrote: »

Oh yea, Kildare GAA is cutting costs alright, this is a real example of it isnt it?

I see no mention of expenditure in what you have quoted!?!

cormac halpin wrote: »

.........their shiitheap of a stadium

I assume your language here is deliberately provocative, hence the number of spats you get into?

cormac halpin

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

I see no mention of expenditure in what you have quoted!?!

Flesh that out a bit there.

I assume your language here is deliberately provocative, hence the number of spats you get into?

Spats? Kildare fans themselves have called their stadium thus, its even part carpark, its a commonly held believe chief. Even the GAA have taken to refusing them the rights to hold games there due to its poor quality.