BIM Deep Sea Salmon Farm Aquaculture and Foreshore Licence Applications (T9/489A & B)

Sfinn

I'm amazed at the lack of discussion on this topic? Any views?

Note that as part of the Irish Fly Fair Galway the topic will be highlighted as part of talks

b.w.ollie

I'm amazed there has been no discussion about the minsters little pet project too. there has been a lot of stuff on (ahem) another angling forum and I gather that Don Staniford (the canadian anti-fish farm activist) is coming to Ireland at the end of this month to help the Bantry anti-fish farm group and also the Galway group. But where are the anglers???? also there is a petition on http:/stopsalmonfarming.blogspot.com/ thanks for highlighting this issue Sfinn

Snowc

Mods please lock and delete this thread.

Zzippy

Sfinn wrote: »

I'm amazed at the lack of discussion on this topic? Any views?

Note that as part of the Irish Fly Fair Galway the topic will be highlighted as part of talks

Dead against it. Am writing a submission of my own, and my club has made a submission too. Would encourage everyone to do likewise. Great post on another forum outlining some of the reasons BIM should be told to f*ck off with themselves - post no. 12 on this topic: http://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/thread51867-2.html#post497692

Snowc wrote: »

Mods please lock and delete this thread.

Why? Do you work for BIM?

Sfinn

Zzippy wrote: »

Dead against it. Am writing a submission of my own, and my club has made a submission too. Would encourage everyone to do likewise. Great post on another forum outlining some of the reasons BIM should be told to f*ck off with themselves - post no. 12 on this topic: http://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/thread51867-2.html#post497692


Yes, But will your bosses, boss and his boss listen:rolleyes:

Zzippy

Sfinn wrote: »

Zzippy wrote: »

Dead against it. Am writing a submission of my own, and my club has made a submission too. Would encourage everyone to do likewise. Great post on another forum outlining some of the reasons BIM should be told to f*ck off with themselves - post no. 12 on this topic: http://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/thread51867-2.html#post497692


Yes, But will your bosses, boss and his boss listen:rolleyes:

If you mean Coveney, then no, probably not... :rolleyes:

ironbluedun

http://www.facebook.com/groups/101079726650098/

please sign this petition.

somefeen

b.w.ollie wrote: »

I'm amazed there has been no discussion about the minsters little pet project too. there has been a lot of stuff on (ahem) another angling forum and I gather that Don Staniford (the canadian anti-fish farm activist) is coming to Ireland at the end of this month to help the Bantry anti-fish farm group and also the Galway group. But where are the anglers???? also there is a petition on http:/stopsalmonfarming.blogspot.com/ thanks for highlighting this issue Sfinn

Don Staniford?
Guys a moron, sensationalist drivel. Why he keeps getting invited to these things is completely beyond me.
He's not neutral by any means, makes a great living out of selling bull****.

stevie_b

somefeen wrote: »

Don Staniford?
Guys a moron, sensationalist drivel. Why he keeps getting invited to these things is completely beyond me.
He's not neutral by any means, makes a great living out of selling bull****.

You wouldn't happen to be a fish farmer by any chance?

Zzippy

somefeen wrote: »

Don Staniford?
Guys a moron, sensationalist drivel. Why he keeps getting invited to these things is completely beyond me.
He's not neutral by any means, makes a great living out of selling bull****.

And BIM are?

Forget about Don Staniford, there are hundreds of anglers in this area who are very angry about what is being done by a State agency, with taxpayers money, to create an opportunity for a big (probably foreign) company to ruin our local environment, and destroy our local fish stocks. We don't need Don Staniford to tell us its a bad idea.

I'm all for job creation (even completely overhyped job creation), but not at the expense of so much. This proposal is for a fish farm that would be 5 times larger than what is considered large anywhere else in the world. For very good reasons, once you go over 2,000 tonnes or thereabouts it becomes much more difficult to control disease and pests. This is a 15,000 tonne farm!

Salmon smolts will have to migrate past this farm, with 3.5 million farmed fish hosting sea lice, and billions of lice larvae being released all the time.What do you think that's going to do to our salmon stocks here???

The environmental impact statement written by BIM (the applicant) is a tissue of lies, mistruths and false claims. A secondary school student could pick holes in it. And we're supposed to take BIM's word for it that there won't be any negative impact?

somefeen

stevie_b wrote: »

You wouldn't happen to be a fish farmer by any chance?

How'd ya guess :P
I know I'm hardly neutral either but there's people out there with far better arguments against it than himself.
I might be a fish farmer but certain aspects of the industry do piss me off.
There's alot of misinformation which doesn't help anyone for a start and thats coming from both sides.
"Salmon farming is solving the world food crisis" my bollocks it is.
"Salmon farming is destroying wild fisheries" my bollocks it is.

And thats just two off the top of my head.

Personally my only real opposition to the Bantry bay farm is that its Marine Harvest. After the **** up they made of Chile I would trust them as far as I could throw them.
Don't know enough about the sea bed and the ecology there to offer anymore than that.
As for the BIM site, whoever takes it on needs to meet alot of conditions. I reckon it won't be economically sustainable once they've all been met.

somefeen

Zzippy wrote: »

And BIM are?


The environmental impact statement written by BIM (the applicant) is a tissue of lies, mistruths and false claims. A secondary school student could pick holes in it. And we're supposed to take BIM's word for it that there won't be any negative impact?

I'm hoping to have a look over that at some point when I get the chance.
The problem with EIA's is, there's nothing that actually stipulates exactly what has to be included or how much evidence is required to say whether there'll be an impact or not.
There's not much enforcement, its down to the public so ye're quiet right to kick up a fuss if you think there's an inadequecy.
Burden of proof and all that

Zzippy

Just to update on this: Our club has made repeated requests to Donal Maguire over the last couple of weeks for the background material that he says supports the claims he makes in the EIS. They have refused to provide it. We believe it doesn't exist, and they have made untrue claims in the EIS, or at least made claims they can't prove, in order to get their proposal past the minister.

If they had this information, and it says what they say it does, then why not produce it?

More to follow next week hopefully. In the meantime, anyone who wants to make a submission on this has until the 12th December to do so, and I would ask you to do it. This is only the first mega-farm they have planned, once they get this one they are moving on to Mayo, Donegal and Kerry. Anglers all over the country need to make their voices heard!

ironbluedun

Please make a submission to the department of agriculture and marine on this. The scale of these fish farms is frightening.

Park Royal

With fish feed being distributed for months into the pens, the amount of feed matter that will reach the sea floor will be significant. What this will do by way of attracting local indigenousness fish is unknown.

Like rubbydubby, fish will be attracted to the non eaten feed. They will then be available to any chemicals that will be applied to the Salmon. What this can do is unknown.

As for the sea lice , the numbers are possibly staggering, unfortunately, free swimming fish and those attracted to the free feed can be host for the parasites and carry the parasites to any fishery, Sea Trout are particularly vulnerable, as will flounder , dabs, etc etc

Theres a lot of unknowns .

Jobs yes, but not in a tainted dirty industry, with a tainted end product.

I understand angler protests are being arranged , keep a ear to the ground on these.

Snowc

Zzippy wrote: »

Dead against it. Am writing a submission of my own, and my club has made a submission too. Would encourage everyone to do likewise. Great post on another forum outlining some of the reasons BIM should be told to f*ck off with themselves - post no. 12 on this topic: http://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/thread51867-2.html#post497692






Why? Do you work for BIM?

Not sure why you think this?

Zzippy

Snowc wrote: »

Not sure why you think this?

Why would you want the thread locked and deleted?

redzerologhlen

Petition here lads and lassies, only takes a minute to sign.

http://www.nosalmonfarmsatsea.com/how-you-can-help/petition/

_Puma_

Any update on this lads, just read the IFI response letter to the EIS carried out by BIM. How on earth can this still be pushed through the way its currently planned?

Zzippy

_Puma_ wrote: »

Any update on this lads, just read the IFI response letter to the EIS carried out by BIM. How on earth can this still be pushed through the way its currently planned?

Public consultation only closed last night, they are supposed to go through submissions now, then the minister decides on the application. Under the regulations, he can either approve it, send it back with a request for more information, or reject it. I know a LOT of submissions have been made, some really excellent ones that tear the application and environmental impact statement to shreds, so if the minister goes ahead and approves it he is going to open a massive can of worms.
The department have refused to publish the submissions received, even though the government's own guidelines on public consultation state that publishing submissions is good practice. Salmon Watch Ireland have a page on their website (http://www.salmon.ie/GBFF_Files/galwaybay.htm) where they are posting submissions that people have made - their own one is very good and sets out the legal situation very well.

The whole process is a farce - Minister Coveney listens to BIM, comes out and says this is a great idea, gives BIM €2 million to progress the application, then the Minister himself is the adjudicator of the application. No independence at all!

_Puma_

Zzippy wrote: »

The department have refused to publish the submissions received, even though the government's own guidelines on public consultation state that publishing submissions is good practice. Salmon Watch Ireland have a page on their website (http://www.salmon.ie/GBFF_Files/galwaybay.htm) where they are posting submissions that people have made - their own one is very good and sets out the legal situation very well.

The whole process is a farce - Minister Coveney listens to BIM, comes out and says this is a great idea, gives BIM €2 million to progress the application, then the Minister himself is the adjudicator of the application. No independence at all!

Hmm that does not bode well. Had a read through a few of those submissions and in theory they have a serious leg to stand on. The EIS from the quango BIM sounds like it is complete rubbish so if the minister pushes it through I assume he is opening the state to legal challenges. Does the EU Habitat and water quality directives come into this?

Had a look at the BIM site and had a good chuckle to myself when I saw the directors involved there. Gombeenism at its finest.

Signed the petition, unfortunately wont be able to make it to the protest in Cork on Saturday but will be keeping a keen eye on this.

Zzippy

_Puma_ wrote: »

Hmm that does not bode well. Had a read through a few of those submissions and in theory they have a serious leg to stand on. The EIS from the quango BIM sounds like it is complete rubbish so if the minister pushes it through I assume he is opening the state to legal challenges. Does the EU Habitat and water quality directives come into this?

Had a look at the BIM site and had a good chuckle to myself when I saw the directors involved there. Gombeenism at its finest.

Signed the petition, unfortunately wont be able to make it to the protest in Cork on Saturday but will be keeping a keen eye on this.

Yup, the Habitats Directive is definitely an issue. Salmon are an Annex II species, and one of the main species protected in both the Corrib SAC and Connemara Bog SAC - both stocks could be severely impacted by the proposal. If the minister pushes it through regardless it will be challenged in Europe without a doubt - would cost the State a lot of money. BIM by pushing this application through without the rigorous scientific analysis required under European law are leaving the State open to serious liability.

As for BIM directors - Donal Maguire, the aquaculture development manager, is running his mouth off all over the place denigrating opponents of the scheme, he really should look closer to home and admit that the misinformation and pseudo-science he's peddling is not good enough to get past serious scrutiny from scientists and lawyers. He will end up costing the State a lot of money.

danbrosnan

i dont know lads.. i think this one could go ahead, i really do cause the government need this story, jobs they need...

Caribs

Would be incredible to think this could go ahead in the face of what looks like such overwhelming scientific evidence. BIM appear to have cherry picked elements of the report to suit their own needs ignoring anything contrary to their desired end.

Having said that as danbrosnan said the headline of job creation could drive this through.

Heard rumours that a disused hatchery somewhere out in Connemara has been purchased already where the eggs will be hatched etc before being brought out to sea. The effluent from the hatchery I think would run into the Ballinahinch system so it would be ruined on the way out as well as preventing anything wild from migrating. Only a rumour of course so can stand corrected.

danbrosnan

Lads it will completely destroy your fishing up there, thats a fact, i'm down here in kerry and i know that if a fish farm was proposed for say in Waterville, there would be world war 3... The sea trout saga is well documented, i am currently studying environmental science but it doesn't take a scientist to realise why sea trout were so badly effected by the farms...

Obviously salmon migrate but sea trout stay in around the bays and disease and sea lice was rampant...

I am 26 years of age and every day i am getting quietly confident to the fact we live in one of the most corrupt, gombean, ignorant and politicly malnourished countries in the world...

_Puma_

Came across this on the public Information evening held last week. A lot of people are starting to realise the dangers to the Environment and standing up against this.

Interesting to see what happens next. When is the minister scheduled to make a decision on this?

Zzippy

_Puma_ wrote: »

Came across this on the public Information evening held last week. A lot of people are starting to realise the dangers to the Environment and standing up against this.

Interesting to see what happens next. When is the minister scheduled to make a decision on this?

I was at the debate myself. To say that people are disgusted with BIM is an understatement. There is a lot of angler and frustration out there. The lead guy from BIM on this, Donal Maguire, was extremely arrogant and dismissive of everyone's concerns at the meeting - rolling his eyes, laughing, etc. Typical of their whole attitude since this project started.

According to BIM, they have responded to all submissions made so the whole thing has now gone to the minister for approval - he could do it any time in the next 6 months.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Lads it will completely destroy your fishing up there, thats a fact, i'm down here in kerry and i know that if a fish farm was proposed for say in Waterville, there would be world war 3... The sea trout saga is well documented, i am currently studying environmental science but it doesn't take a scientist to realise why sea trout were so badly effected by the farms... .

Not just up here Dan. Where do you think your salmon smolts go? That's right, north, right past Galway Bay, and who's to say they don't swim inside the Aran Islands, as that's where the currents would bring them. In fact, most of the rivers south of Galway could be affected...

Zzippy

Bump, just to remind people that there is a protest march taking part in Galway this Saturday, the 2nd of March. The march departs from Eyre Square at 12pm, heading to the Spanish Arch. Anyone within driving distance of Galway, please do your best to come out and show your support. There are buses coming from all over the country, and the forecast is for dry weather, so hopefully we get a big turnout.

Park Royal

I take it you guys have seen this presentation from Canada......?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIPcgfJocRo

_Puma_

Hopefully there is a big turnout for this tomorrow, noticed there was a insert in the Galway advertiser this week from BIM with their usual nonsense. They may be starting to feel the heat from the opposition that is growing to this. From reading up a bit it, seems that IFI, Failte Ireland and numerous groups are actively opposed to this. I've also read that numerous Councillors and the city Mayor are now calling for it's suspension.

On the other hand, good old Fidelma is all for it!

*I know it's unfair to single out a Senator, but the fact that her constituency could be effected with pollution and algae blooms in the bay. Shellfish harvesting in her constituency could be significantly damaged, I think its relevant.

Zzippy

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0302/371734-2-000-protest-planned-galway-fish-farm/

CJhaughey

_Puma_ wrote: »

On the other hand, good old Fidelma is all for it!

*I know it's unfair to single out a Senator, but the fact that her constituency could be effected with pollution and algae blooms in the bay. Shellfish harvesting in her constituency could be significantly damaged, I think its relevant.

I am no fan of Fidelma, but how do you equate Algal blooms with a fish farm?
Algal blooms happen everywhere even where there is no human activity.
They are just a natural phenomenon.

Park Royal

danbrosnan wrote: »

i dont know lads.. i think this one could go ahead, i really do cause the government need this story, jobs they need...

WE need the jobs thats for sure , but similar to not digging the gold out of Croagh Patrick and there are sizable finds of gold the damage it would cause is too high a price to pay ....(at the moment)

but if the project is put on land away from wild smolts and sea trout etc we can have both........

this is worth a viewing its a bit long but well worth the effort.....

http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2013/03/salmon-confidential.html

Zzippy

CJhaughey wrote: »

I am no fan of Fidelma, but how do you equate Algal blooms with a fish farm?
Algal blooms happen everywhere even where there is no human activity.
They are just a natural phenomenon.

Algal blooms are indeed a natural phenomenon, but they are more common and more severe where the level of nutrients in the water is artificially increased - hence the increasing number and impact of algal blooms in lakes in recent decades due to enrichment from sewage and agriculture. This fish farm will cause an increase in nutrient input into the bay - thousands of tonnes of fish faeces and uneaten food. It is reasonable to assume that this could result in a local increase in algal blooms.

CJhaughey

Zzippy wrote: »

It is reasonable to assume that this could result in a local increase in algal blooms.

Its not reasonable to assume anything unless its proven, there are plenty of fish farms already operating with no sign of algal blooms in the local area.

Park Royal

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its not reasonable to assume anything unless its proven, there are plenty of fish farms already operating with no sign of algal blooms in the local area.

Both in Chile and Canada , these types of large feeding lots have been proven

to cause environmental damage . Who is guaranteeing it wont happen here....

name and address please .....what bond are they providing to protect the

state?.

Put the project on land ......and spread the hundreds of tonnes of detritus on

farm land, away from waterways. ( but would the profits be "big" enough for

the shareholders?)

CJhaughey

Park Royal wrote: »

Both in Chile and Canada , these types of large feeding lots have been proven

to cause environmental damage . Who is guaranteeing it wont happen here....

I'll say it again, there are already salmon farms operating here.
In Killary, Bantry, Kenmare etc.
Where are the algal blooms from these farms?
If they were so prolific at causing algal blooms then all the areas above would have problems all the time with algal blooms.
But they don't seem to be affected any more than the rest of the country.

Maudi

CJhaughey wrote: »

I'll say it again, there are already salmon farms operating here.
In Killary, Bantry, Kenmare etc.
Where are the algal blooms from these farms?
If they were so prolific at causing algal blooms then all the areas above would have problems all the time with algal blooms.
But they don't seem to be affected any more than the rest of the country.

im on the fence on this one..surley farms give wild stock a breather to recover.provides jobs.and by their existance would these areas become a sort of marine santuary..but i wonder about the effect of so much fish crap all being dropped in the one area.and what happens if some seals turn up looking for easy pickings?

Park Royal

Maudi wrote: »

im on the fence on this one..surley farms give wild stock a breather to recover.provides jobs.and by their existance would these areas become a sort of marine santuary..but i wonder about the effect of so much fish crap all being dropped in the one area.and what happens if some seals turn up looking for easy pickings?

They'll go pink.......

Zzippy

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its not reasonable to assume anything unless its proven, there are plenty of fish farms already operating with no sign of algal blooms in the local area.

Read my post again, I said its reasonable to assume they could result in algal blooms i.e. that it is a possibility. I didn't say it was proven. This proposed farm would be larger than ALL those other fish farms in the country COMBINED. So instead of small local inputs of nutrients in bays scattered all over the country, you will have one large input in a single bay that is equivalent to the nutrients from all those other farms together. No one knows how this will impact on the local environment in terms of algal blooms, therefore it is reasonable to keep an open mind, and assume that this input COULD result in algal blooms.

As it happens, having seen how natural algal blooms like last year's Karenia mikimotoi devastated inshore fisheries along the west coast, I'm less worried about blooms from this farm than about the threat from sea lice and disease. That is the real issue that anglers are concerned about.

Maudi

Park Royal wrote: »

They'll go pink.......

what will go pink?

Zzippy

Debate on the proposal on the Pat Kenny show on RTE Radio 1 at 10am Tuesday 12th...

Park Royal

Research indicates upwards of 1% of farmed fish escape when being handled

at the cages......slippery things these fish......

now if the feeding lots were on land ...no problem......

What was the name of the US minesweeper that ran into an island.......

USS Guardian........all that modern equipment and the best of the best hit a

not so small island......unknown unknowns ....that must have happened years

ago could not happen now...everything is improved.....17th Jan 2013.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/30/us-navy-dismantle-minesweeper-coral

Everything is better and improved ...my left foot it is.....

Auldloon

Park Royal wrote: »

WE need the jobs thats for sure , but similar to not digging the gold out of Croagh Patrick and there are sizable finds of gold the damage it would cause is too high a price to pay ....(at the moment)

but if the project is put on land away from wild smolts and sea trout etc we can have both........

this is worth a viewing its a bit long but well worth the effort.....

http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2013/03/salmon-confidential.html

Hi I watched that video last night. Its an excellent documentary. Everyone who is posting on this thread should set an hour + aside and watch it.

Flysfisher

Zzippy wrote: »

Debate on the proposal on the Pat Kenny show on RTE Radio 1 at 10am Tuesday 12th...

Very poor debate. The anti fish farm side was very poor. Why are the big wig scientists from the IFI not beating down the door about this? or have I missed something? They seem very very quiet to me.

Zzippy

Flysfisher wrote: »

Very poor debate. The anti fish farm side was very poor. Why are the big wig scientists from the IFI not beating down the door about this? or have I missed something? They seem very very quiet to me.

Because they have been told to shut up, and only one spokesperson is permitted to speak on behalf of IFI... :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, BIM are allowed to get away with saying anything to justify their pet project, including distorting the truth, misrepresenting scientific data, omitting relevant data that doesn't suit their agenda, calling pesticides "medicines", spending serious amounts of taxpayers money on PR (well after the public consultation period is closed and this could be justified), etc.

IFI senior management is letting us all down by staying quiet on this issue

Zzippy

Worth a listen, the folly of this project captured perfectly in song...


Fish Farm Blues, by Pat Quinn from Inis Oirr, only 1 mile from the proposed farm.

Flysfisher

Zzippy wrote: »

Because they have been told to shut up, and only one spokesperson is permitted to speak on behalf of IFI... :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, BIM are allowed to get away with saying anything to justify their pet project, including distorting the truth, misrepresenting scientific data, omitting relevant data that doesn't suit their agenda, calling pesticides "medicines", spending serious amounts of taxpayers money on PR (well after the public consultation period is closed and this could be justified), etc.

IFI senior management is letting us all down by staying quiet on this issue

I would really love to know who told them to shut up? Is it a case of one state agency not allowed have a public spat with another? The IFI are letting anglers down on ths issue, I know they have made submissions to the department but they should be banging the door down on this one.
We want fighting men running angling, not yes men.

Park Royal

Flysfisher wrote: »

I would really love to know who told them to shut up? Is it a case of one state agency not allowed have a public spat with another? The IFI are letting anglers down on ths issue, I know they have made submissions to the department but they should be banging the door down on this one.
We want fighting men running angling, not yes men.

Its normal procedure to have certain people authorised to speak on behalf of

the organisation, usually the Public Relations Dept, the PR dept would ensure

they are putting out the organisation view as per The Board instructions....

and senior management......if you want to keep your job in most organisations

you better comply with organisational rules and procedures.....otherwise get

yourself another job.......simple.......so ends another lesson in the facts of life.

downwiththatsor

CJhaughey wrote: »

I'll say it again, there are already salmon farms operating here.
In Killary, Bantry, Kenmare etc.
Where are the algal blooms from these farms?
If they were so prolific at causing algal blooms then all the areas above would have problems all the time with algal blooms.
But they don't seem to be affected any more than the rest of the country.

Strange how the blooms last year are in similar locations to the major salmon farms, especially the North West, coincidence?

http://www.marine.ie/home/aboutus/newsroom/pressreleases/ExceptionalAlgalBloomdetectedinNorthWest.htm
Marine Institute claim that "“These blooms are part of the natural cycle of phytoplankton in the sea, and originate offshore."


http://marineharvest.com/en/About-Marine-Harvest/About-Marine-Harvest1/Ireland/

Park Royal

downwiththatsor wrote: »

Strange how the blooms last year are in similar locations to the major salmon farms, especially the North West, coincidence?

Interesting,... is there a map with all the Irish fish farms listed......?

.....this mentions "major" fish farms......?

can the publications be accessed with the above data....?...