Tramore Road Bicycle lane

henboy

lads help me out here . The council swept the road , cut back the hedges , Put down a white line ... Is that it

wellboytoo

henboy wrote: »

lads help me out here . The council swept the road , cut back the hedges , Put down a white line ... Is that it

For €600K, if it is you would lay a white line of Cocaine from Waterford to Tramore cheaper.

henboy

wellboytoo wrote: »

For €600K, if it is you would lay a white line of Cocaine from Waterford to Tramore cheaper.

What 600k , ****ing hell someone went on a nice holiday for Crimbo .

How the hell did a white line from Ballindud roundabout cost 600k ..

Brick Session

The other thing about this very expensive white line is that they have actually made the lane / hard shoulder narrower in most places.

tuxy

Perhaps the 600k factors in the fact that the lane will have to be swept clean on a regular basis to ensure it is safe for bikes. Many cycle lanes are full of debris so maybe they are actually going to maintain this one.

rasper

Well that's all the household charges gone down the toilet , 600k for a line , how is that costed out

Psychedelic

tuxy wrote: »

Perhaps the 600k factors in the fact that the lane will have to be swept clean on a regular basis to ensure it is safe for bikes. Many cycle lanes are full of debris so maybe they are actually going to maintain this one.

Maybe, but it looks like this cycle lane is just the hard shoulder which I've never seen dirty or cluttered with debris. There might be a few leaves in certain parts but that's about it.

I thought they might put down a red surface like you would see for most cycle lanes. If they aren't doing that then god knows what that €600k is being spent on.

I guess they might also paint little bicycles along the lane to remind people it's a cycle lane.

Max Powers

Hey lads, c'mon, this is the only thing Paudie and Ciara have achieved for Waterford, be nice about it will ye please.

Royal Legend

Max Powers wrote: »

Hey lads, c'mon, this is the only thing Paudie and Ciara have achieved for Waterford, be nice about it will ye please.

LOL Its wasn't even them that got it, no doubt they will lay claim to it though.

CantGetNoSleep

Ciara got on the telly too, and in a photo when TalkTalk closed (with a lovely smiley face too), she has achieved a lot so leave her alone

Brick Session

Max Powers wrote: »

Hey lads, c'mon, this is the only thing Paudie and Ciara have achieved for Waterford, be nice about it will ye please.

When is she to show up for the photographs?

henboy

Psychedelic wrote: »

Maybe, but it looks like this cycle lane is just the hard shoulder which I've never seen dirty or cluttered with debris. There might be a few leaves in certain parts but that's about it.

I thought they might put down a red surface like you would see for most cycle lanes. If they aren't doing that then god knows what that €600k is being spent on.

I guess they might also paint little bicycles along the lane to remind people it's a cycle lane.

exactly what I was thinking ,

henboy

tuxy wrote: »

Perhaps the 600k factors in the fact that the lane will have to be swept clean on a regular basis to ensure it is safe for bikes. Many cycle lanes are full of debris so maybe they are actually going to maintain this one.

I can't see this been maintained at all , But hopefully i'll be wrong .

henboy

I cycle this road a lot and iv'e never seen an accident between a cyclist and car , as the hard shoulder is wide enough . Just in my opinion and from cycling it with the white line down , they have actually made the road unsafe for cyclists now .

Maybe they did it to get people cycling more .......... But this is not the way to do that .

Surely it can't be finished like that .

Sully

While I agree that it seems like wasted money, there was considerable improvement in some sections where the ditch moved out considerably into the hard shoulder. They cut this back a good bit. Still, I felt there was sufficient room for cyclists without those changes. It doesn't appear finished as the white line is not completed on one side of the road and ends at the starting point for Waterford City Council.

The funding came from the Department of Transport. Similar funding was given to Dungarvan - for the upgrade of cycle lanes and footpaths. It would be normal for government TDs to welcome additional funding given to their constituency by the state. Funding was welcomed by Paudie Coffey when it went to Splashworld also, for instance, as was a welcome given to funding given for the Waterford City Viking Triangle. I don't see a problem with it.

Improving the way we travel around our City & County has to be welcomed, if done correctly of course. In addition, the funding for Splashworld and the Viking Triangle will provide a boost to helping our local economy thanks to tourism.

henboy

Sully I agree with some of what you have to say if it improves travel been made easy from tramore to waterord fair enough . I still think the funding should have been used for something else in Tramore . I cycle sometimes 300km a week and i'm on the Tramore road a lot . This in my eyes won't make people cycle more , what there doing at the moment is making it dangerous for cyclists and car drivers .....

Think the money should of been used to light up the road with public lighting ... Just my opinion

Sully

henboy wrote: »

Sully I agree with some of what you have to say if it improves travel been made easy from tramore to waterord fair enough . I still think the funding should have been used for something else in Tramore . I cycle sometimes 300km a week and i'm on the Tramore road a lot . This in my eyes won't make people cycle more , what there doing at the moment is making it dangerous for cyclists and car drivers .....

Think the money should of been used to light up the road with public lighting ... Just my opinion

I think the idea was to make the hard shoulder wider and cleaner. The white line prohibits cars from entering it. So it makes it safer than it was before.

As for street lighting - you don't generally put lights on a main road. The cost to run and maintain those lights would be huge, 60k wouldn't cover it.

henboy

Yep I agree I presume you mean wider for cars . A white line prohibits cars from entering it , when did that ever work certainly not in this country . I can only say that that a white line does not prohibit a car entering it . What they have done on that roar is make things dangerous . The only way a cycle lane would work there if it were segregated .

As for lighting I think 600k would run lights on that small stretch of road ..............But who would of taught a white line would cost 600k ... Hopefully its not finished

blankAs

is there anywhere for a car to pull over along the road anymore? or will a pulled over car just be in the way of the cycle lane?

henboy

blankAs wrote: »

is there anywhere for a car to pull over along the road anymore? or will a pulled over car just be in the way of the cycle lane?

Good question , That stretch of road is now a designated cycle path . Where there once was a hard shoulder where cars could pull over , in this case if a car needs to pull over it will be prohibiting a bicycle lane . Which in sense will happen anyway .

This would be my major concern for car drivers and also cyclists . Where you once had a stretch of road which was safe to cycle , now that will all change both for cars and bikes . Would be interesting to see the law here if a car does pull in to stop in the cycle path and there is an accident with a bike , who is to blame ....

JMcL

I'm cycling the road most days, and I'm a bit bemused at what €600k pays for TBH. Cleaning the verges should be part of the councils regular road maintenance budget anyway I'd have thought, they just haven't done it in years. There're a few stretches I'd have hoped they were going to do a better resurfacing job on, and where the lane ends at the Summerville roundabout, you're chucked into a nicely developing pothole.

The purpose I imagine is to make cycling less intimidating and encourage more people to do it. As it stands, it's mere window dressing as the hard shoulder was fine in and of itself. If you are of a nervous disposition, being chucked into the ORR roundabout at rush hour ain't ideal! The tender for the outer ring road to inner ring road section isn't clear whether negotiating the roundabout will be addressed, in fact it's not too clear on anything!

blankAs wrote: »

is there anywhere for a car to pull over along the road anymore? or will a pulled over car just be in the way of the cycle lane?

Debatable. The law regarding cycle lanes, in particular making their use mandatory, was changed last month (see S.I. No. 332/2012). Regarding parking:

Prohibitions on parking Section 36 (2) A vehicle shall not be parked

(m) in a cycle track where traffic sign number RUS 009, RUS 058 or RUS 059 is provided

(see here for images of the signs)

Now there aren't any signs up yet, but I'd have to imagine there'd be a few coppers left over in the 600k to erect them.

The current "Rules Of The Road" state that "No driver may park a vehicle in a mandatory cycle track." where a mandatory cycle lane is bounded by a continuous white line. Now, the tracks aren't "mandatory" any more, so I'd imagine the rules of the road haven't been updated yet as the SI was only enacted a month ago, but I'd imagine the continuous white line rule will continue to apply.

So from my best non-expert reading of the above statute, if and when the signs go up, stopping in the lane will be illegal. Still, applying common sense, if you get a flat tyre or something, it'd be a bit rough to be be dealt a ticket for it.

tuxy

Is there anyway of seeing a breakdown of the costs that amounted to 600k. It's tax pays money so should really be public knowledge.

SweetCaliber

Sully wrote: »

I think the idea was to make the hard shoulder wider and cleaner. The white line prohibits cars from entering it. So it makes it safer than it was before.

As for street lighting - you don't generally put lights on a main road. The cost to run and maintain those lights would be huge, 60k wouldn't cover it.

They should really put down cat's eyes on the white line, or some sort of barrier at parts to warn drivers in the night.

Coming round a corner and not seeing the white line could be devastating.

With the dark evenings coming in, I wouldn't risk cycling there, a white line isn't going to stop much.

Also the leaves are piling up again, a cyclist would kill himself of those leaves especially when they are wet.

tuxy

lee3155 wrote: »

Also the leaves are piling up again, a cyclist would kill himself of those leaves especially when they are wet.

That's why I had hoped it would be cleared on a regular basis.
I have driven many roads where the hard shoulder looks clear also. But when you go to cycle on the hard shoulder you realise how much crap has been swept in by passing cars.

I generally avoid the hard shoulder and stick to the main part of the road when cycling. Unless I want to play the puncture lottery.

JMcL

lee3155 wrote: »

They should really put down cat's eyes on the white line, or some sort of barrier at parts to warn drivers in the night.

Coming round a corner and not seeing the white line could be devastating.

With the dark evenings coming in, I wouldn't risk cycling there, a white line isn't going to stop much.

Also the leaves are piling up again, a cyclist would kill himself of those leaves especially when they are wet.

I'd say no thanks to the cats eyes, they really are not fun when you hit them with your wheel in the dark. A related bugbear - they dug up the cats eyes up around the crossroads on the Tramore side of Katie Reillys but left the holes there - thanks lads!

Agree about the leaves though, they're really not fun and I'll be interested to see how often, or if, they get swept.

With a proper set of lights the road's not at all the worst for cycling in the dark between the ORR and Tramore. Decent lights aren't cheap, but the cost is easy to justify by the fact they'll have paid for themselves in fuel costs alone if I can cycle to work for about 20 days where I wouldn't otherwise

henboy

Cat's eyes please god nooooooooooo . Agree with JMcL a good set of lights and maybe a hi viz jacket or gillet and your sorted . I was cycling the road to day and have to say they made some ball's of it . They seriously need to look at this before someone is hurt .

SweetCaliber

henboy wrote: »

Cat's eyes please god nooooooooooo . Agree with JMcL a good set of lights and maybe a hi viz jacket or gillet and your sorted . I was cycling the road to day and have to say they made some ball's of it . They seriously need to look at this before someone is hurt .

Okay fair enough, no cat eyes But a barrier going around the corners or something, just for those drives who may not be familiar with the cycle path and may take a steeper turn on the bends.

henboy

lee3155 wrote: »

Okay fair enough, no cat eyes But a barrier going around the corners or something, just for those drives who may not be familiar with the cycle path and may take a steeper turn on the bends.

Hopefully its far from finished .....

tuxy

Don't they normally have an official opening for these things?
If they have not had one yet there might be more work planned.

flan59

Looks like the completion date is Nov 12, full breakdown of plan and costs on http://www.smartertravel.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/NCN%20Application%20Form-Tramore%20Final.pdf

JMcL

flan59 wrote: »

Looks like the completion date is Nov 12, full breakdown of plan and costs on http://www.smartertravel.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/NCN%20Application%20Form-Tramore%20Final.pdf

Jaysus

€125k for painting white lines, where's me roller, I've obviously missed my calling in life :eek:

€50k for "Design and consultancy" which given how little has actually been done, they were off to the pub early that day. Add to that another €40k odd which should be getting done out of the road budget as a matter of course. Nothing of course for maintenance

The signs are to go up yet, so not really finished yet

Compare that to Donegal CC putting in place a 195km county wide cycle network for €185k more

Psychedelic

That is truly shocking. Don't know what else to say, just shaking my head in disbelief at that.

henboy

Unreal Lads ... Bloody Hell . the madness of spending money foolishly is alive and well .

Royal Legend

This has been my main reason for not paying the household charge, why would I give money to a council that squanders money in this way. The letter finally came through the door last week, and the wife was mainly the one who was against paying was but was starting to waiver. I will not pay it now and I will happily stand up in a court and ask how the sum above is even possibly feasible at half the price.

For those who thought that Fianna Fail were the worst of the worst, wlecome to reality, we now have the most clueless gombeens ever to ru(i)n a country, not only that they continaully tell us that they are doing a stand up job, problem is only the Germans agree. FFS

Sully

Royal Legend wrote: »

This has been my main reason for not paying the household charge, why would I give money to a council that squanders money in this way. The letter finally came through the door last week, and the wife was mainly the one who was against paying was but was starting to waiver. I will not pay it now and I will happily stand up in a court and ask how the sum above is even possibly feasible at half the price.

For those who thought that Fianna Fail were the worst of the worst, wlecome to reality, we now have the most clueless gombeens ever to ru(i)n a country, not only that they continaully tell us that they are doing a stand up job, problem is only the Germans agree. FFS

The government, to be fair, didn't decide what or how Waterford Co. Co. spent their money. Neither did Fianna Fail and I am not sure if the Cllrs had much of a say, usually its civil servants.

looksee

I don't entirely see the rationale of the cycle lane either, especially since they fizzle out before the Ballindud roundabout.

However, in response to the criticism of the Council, I drove out on the N25 recently, did the Comeragh Drive, went up to Mahon Falls and over the top back to the N25, cut down to Bunmahon and along the coast road back to Tramore. All the way, even on the little mountain road over the Comeraghs, the roads were great. No potholes, no broken surface, good markings where appropriate.

You only have to go onto the backroads of Wexford to see how bad roads can be. I think the County Council are doing pretty well.

eirator

looksee wrote: »

I don't entirely see the rationale of the cycle lane either, especially since they fizzle out before the Ballindud roundabout.

However, in response to the criticism of the Council, I drove out on the N25 recently, did the Comeragh Drive, went up to Mahon Falls and over the top back to the N25, cut down to Bunmahon and along the coast road back to Tramore. All the way, even on the little mountain road over the Comeraghs, the roads were great. No potholes, no broken surface, good markings where appropriate.

You only have to go onto the backroads of Wexford to see how bad roads can be. I think the County Council are doing pretty well.

Don't expect the roads up to Mahon Falls to get much more in the way of maintenance. As I understand it the councils own guys are not beeing given the time or the materials to do the job and the council are reporting that the road maintenance is failing. Sounds stupid untill you realise that the council want to get rid of their own labour force so want it to fail and are making that happen.

rasper

Thats crazy money to spend on such little work, taxpayer is being raped here , there is no possible way a private firm or individual who has to earn €310k before spending(before or after tax) and get so little in return
Council way too frivolous with cash it doesnt have to earn

CantGetNoSleep

Sully wrote: »

The government, to be fair, didn't decide what or how Waterford Co. Co. spent their money. Neither did Fianna Fail and I am not sure if the Cllrs had much of a say, usually its civil servants.

Sully what is the purpose of Councillors if they cannot hold the Council to account?

Sully

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Sully what is the purpose of Councillors if they cannot hold the Council to account?

You mean the government holding the council to account? I'm probably wrong but I cant say I ever recall hearing anything where the government stepped in due to councils spending money inefficiently. For whatever the reason, I am not sure.

CantGetNoSleep

Sully wrote: »

You mean the government holding the council to account? I'm probably wrong but I cant say I ever recall hearing anything where the government stepped in due to councils spending money inefficiently. For whatever the reason, I am not sure.

No, I mean do you think the Council is run entirely by civil servants? If so, why do we elect Councillors?

eirator

Am I right in saying that the government made money available for the project?

If so the money was only available for this one project and as it was "someone elses money" is it surprising it hasn't been well spent?

tuxy

Where exactly does this money good, who are the main people that benefit financially from this careless spending?

mickob16

€50k for design and consultancy!!! What designing was done exactly? A bloody line on a road..no wonder the country is bolloxed when that kind of money is being squandered. Someone is still laughing his head off looking forward to xmas while the rest of us struggle on safe in the knowledge we have a nice stretch of road which a lovely line on it:mad::mad::mad::mad: I hate the stupidity of this country. Imagine where we could be if common sense was more important than red tape and bureaucracy

looksee

OK, so a couple of months later, has anyone noticed how many cyclists are trying to cycle between the solid white line and the dotted yellow line - a width of max 18" including both the lines. In fact I saw one guy carefully trying to cycle ON the white line.

Not all of them in fairness, nor even most, but still a silly number of people who haven't copped that the huge space that was the hard shoulder is now all theirs - and there are no excuses, it has been swept again since the leaves fell, and there are no potholes.

Sully

I don't think people are stupid so I assume they have a genuine reason for this! Anytime I noticed this it was because the ground had leaves on it or branch twigs so was dodgy.

Nice to see the signs go up. Never knew there was a risk of deer on the road tho!

tuxy

It's very difficult to tell by driving by what condition a bike lane is in.
I've drove past ones that looked good but then were full of all kinds of crap when I went to cycle on them.

[Steve]

Only just came across this thread, won't repeat thing already been said, but really, €310,000 for a line and some signs for not even 7km of road. Wonderful.

Next thing they'll do will probably be spending €500,000 on resurfacing the paths around Tramore in purple tar this time.

In all fairness, the road with the signs seems good. Bit expensive though, really.

Mugser

I was one of the cyclists who cycled between the white and yellow lines for some time, but they've stuck in some rumble strips specially for us every couple of 100 meters. So, do I go inwards towards the ditch, or outwards to where I used to cycle before the white lines were painted?? I decided to use the lane going out to Tramore there the other day. I got as far as the Half Way House before I got a puncture!!:rolleyes::rolleyes: I, for one, won't be using the "cycle lane" much from now on anyway.

looksee

I thought the rumble strips were to keep cars out. But why would there be any less rubbish in the narrow strip than a bit to the left? And if you are in the left area at least you have room to avoid debris, though to me it looks exactly the same as the road.

I had to swerve out to avoid a guy in all the lycra and trimmings who was wobbling along beside the dotted line - the whole point of the double lines is to give automatic clearance between cyclists and vehicles.

And I got a flat on the car in the middle of Tramore on Saturday, maybe I should drive on the pavements instead?

Mugser

looksee wrote: »

But why would there be any less rubbish in the narrow strip than a bit to the left?

Because the rubbish is swept outwards by the cars, or falls from the trees, which are on the side of the road.