Leinster TT league.

fran83

Would people be intrested in a TT league?

To be run from the middle of April to the end of August.

Location Baatterstown Kilcock area.

niceonetom

I'd certainly be interested. I have a bike that needs to be justified.

The ILOUT league has been out Batterstown way every other Thursday for years so that night is probably a non runner. The vets use the same courses but not sure what night. The Swords league is on Wednesdays, right? Best not to clash with that I guess. What does that leave?

I think the locals feel the roads are a little over-raced these days (they might have a point) so a bit of thought would have to be given to which corses to use and we'd have to behave ourselves as to where we parked and keep peeing in the bushes to a minimum - they don't like that.

Lusk Doyle

Fridays. First rider off at 7 sharp.

Beasty

Batterstown is certainly an issue with clashes with club leagues as well as other TTs. The vets have moved their start for road races away from Batterstown partly because of the inconevience to locals. However 10m and 25m TTs still go through the village (IVCA Tues, various Weds, Dublin Wheelers & ILOUT Thurs)

I would suggest an alternative approach - what about some of the local Club TTs being opened up as Cuchulainn already do (and in practice Swoirds do also). So a Leinster League could comprise say TTs in Dundalk, Northside, Southside and some in the Batterstown/Enfield areas, using existing club TTs supplemented by some weekend ones and including a couple of hill climbs. I could see the potential for a league of say 16 races, run on different evenings to co-incide with existing club arrangements (probably not ILOUT though, as I suspect their TTs are already pretty much at full capacity), supplemented by the odd Saturday (the Sorrento one is currently run on a Saturday for example).

There is a problem with light in April and August particularly if you have large numbers turning up (the IVCA run theirs from the beginning of May until mid-August for this reason) which would be part of the reason for running some on Saturdays

niceonetom

That sounds terrifically complicated.

If it is to be run as a league, i.e with the assumption that many or most of the riders will participate in most rounds, then having such a variety of venues spread all over the province, on various days of the week, and several different organising clubs (all of whom would have to be on board with opening up to unknown riders when club leagues are already a little embatled) seems like a headache.

I'd far prefer a series of tests in roughly the same place (Meath) on the same night of the week each time.

Does anyone use Fridays?

colm_gti

Yuss, this is what I need to justify buying a TT bike!!

ROK ON

Great idea and really positive to see someone running with such an idea.
Hope it is a success.

As an aside - as well as running usual categories perhaps give consideration to the points to be won by the top three competing on a road bike across the various categorisations. Just a thought to keep as many involved and encourage participation - not that I suspect that there will be a lack of participants.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

I'd far prefer a series of tests in roughly the same place (Meath) on the same night of the week each time.

The simplest thing that would work is to pick some arbitrary unpopulated starting point on the Trim road and do a 16km loop. That way we don't risk annoying the locals.

I understand the "attraction" of longer distances (25 and 50 mile) but that's not really realistic on weekday evenings in early and late summer.

Maybe public holidays for the longer distances? Of course there are people that have lives full of commitment and/or joy that will be put off by losing a bank holiday Monday, but I'm not sure any of those people are deeply into time trialling.

Beasty

Are we talking about a CI sanctioned league here? That would presumably require support from Cycling Leinster and the clubs, with the latter actually running the events (which is why I was thinking of trying to take advantage of those events they already put on).

There are restrictions on the days club league races can be run (Monday to Thursday IIRC), although I'm not sure if this applies to TTs. Certainly in Ulster they do run a number of weekend TTs but I think they are considered open events.

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

Are we talking about a CI sanctioned league here? That would presumably require support from Cycling Leinster and the clubs, with the latter actually running the events (which is why I was thinking of trying to take advantage of those events they already put on).

There are restrictions on the days club league races can be run (Monday to Thursday IIRC), although I'm not sure if this applies to TTs. Certainly in Ulster they do run a number of weekend TTs but I think they are considered open events.

What's the reason for this?

Beasty

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

What's the reason for this?

Because weekends are reserved for "Open Races". As I said though I'm not sure how TT's fit into this - presumably any formal Leinster League would be considered open, but then I'm not sure if this has to fit into an already crowded Leinster Calendar (although it does seem that the manage to fit full TT and "proper" race programmes in Ulster - a lot of their TTs are run on Thursdays though)

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

Are we talking about a CI sanctioned league here? That would presumably require support from Cycling Leinster and the clubs, with the latter actually running the events (which is why I was thinking of trying to take advantage of those events they already put on).

There are restrictions on the days club league races can be run (Monday to Thursday IIRC), although I'm not sure if this applies to TTs. Certainly in Ulster they do run a number of weekend TTs but I think they are considered open events.

As far as I know a TT league is part of the greater discussion issue together with the gradings issue at the C I agm on Sat.

fat bloke

Has a decision already been made on this?????

I see four different "TT frame wanted" threads have mushroomed in the adverts section!!:pac:

fran83

Right lads this might sound bad the way it is worded but I mean no harm I want this to happen and not get shelved like most other rumours.

I want to run a separate TT league only with a few hill climbs too.

I don’t want it to be part of any club league, committee or any of the sort.

From my experiences with clubs ect you will have somebody that will object to this and that and the idea will never get off the ground so to prevent this happening I am doing this myself through a club (no name to be provided as of yet) just for cycling Ireland rules ect.

I have a route that will not interfere with other races in the area. (Will post the route later)

I will be gathering info in regards the club leagues, IVCA ect so that it won’t clash with any event.

I will need between 6-8 people to run the league so hopefully a few people might volunteer their time??????????

I would like to be able to have people sign on on-line and see their start-time 48 hours in advance of the start.

If people would like to throw their two cents in I would be glad to listen and not shot them down over it. No suggestion is stupid.

Cycling needs positive people to run things to get them off the ground. I am in it for the cycling and not for the politics.

Regards

CuchulainnCC

Cuchulainn Cycling Club have plans to run a TT league next year and have submitted the following dates to Cycling Ireland:

22/05/13 Time Trial League Round 1
29/05/13 Time Trial League Round 2 & Leinster 10 TT Champs
05/06/13 Time Trial League Round 3 & Louth TT Champs (Men)
12/06/13 Time Trial League Round 4 & Leinster 25 TT Champs

The location for these events is just off the M1 Motorway (45 Mins from Airport)

Beasty

While I support the sentiment and welcome your enthusiasm on this fran, surely the best way to get this up and running would be with the support of CI. I really don't know where insurance fits in with something like this, but if for example an "unofficial" TT results in a Road Traffic Accident (maybe a marshall or bike gets clipped by a car, or cause an accident by their actions), there is a risk the "organisers" could be held responsible. I know we have run Boards TTs, but these were one-offs and it was made clear to everyone that they were participating at their own risk. A formal league is a different kettle of fish though.

wav1 indicates a TT League may be up for discussion at the AGM (although I didn't notice anything when I had a look at the grading proposals, albeit a week or two ago). If something at either national or provincial level can be put in place by CI, with the support of the clubs, surely this is a much better way to go.

Beasty

CuchulainnCC wrote: »

Cuchulainn Cycling Club have plans to run a TT league next year and have submitted the following dates to Cycling Ireland:

22/05/13 Time Trial League Round 1
29/05/13 Time Trial League Round 2 & Leinster 10 TT Champs
05/06/13 Time Trial League Round 3 & Louth TT Champs (Men)
12/06/13 Time Trial League Round 4 & Leinster 25 TT Champs

The location for these events is just off the M1 Motorway (45 Mins from Airport)

That's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of, but combined with a few other clubs putting on similar events opened up to non-club members. can you arrange a bit less wind and a bit less rain for next year though ...;)

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

While I support the sentiment and welcome your enthusiasm on this fran, surely the best way to get this up and running would be with the support of CI. I really don't know where insurance fits in with something like this, but if for example an "unofficial" TT results in a Road Traffic Accident (maybe a marshall or bike gets clipped by a car, or cause an accident by their actions), there is a risk the "organisers" could be held responsible. I know we have run Boards TTs, but these were one-offs and it was made clear to everyone that they were participating at their own risk. A formal league is a different kettle of fish though.

wav1 indicates a TT League may be up for discussion at the AGM (although I didn't notice anything when I had a look at the grading proposals, albeit a week or two ago). If something at either national or provincial level can be put in place by CI, with the support of the clubs, surely this is a much better way to go.

I agree.Apply to run this league through a club and if its defined as an open event you have no problem running on a Fri night.Dont even consider going on a solo run on something like this for your own sake.As far as discussion at agm is concerned morana posted in another tread that a time trial league was something he was keen to see happen.

fran83

Did either of you read the part that I am running it through a club?

This league will be open to all cycling ireland members. (OPEN LEAGUE)

Every rider must hold a cycling ireland license to ride the race that will cover the insurance side of things.

What support would Cycling Ireland provide??

fran83

Link to the 16Km course.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=R158&hl=en&sll=53.441446,-6.662521&sspn=0.210632,0.438766&geocode=FfwHMAMdWnGZ_w%3BFZH9LgMd6SCa_w&doflg=ptk&mra=ls&t=m&z=12

fran83

Second course

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Blessington+Road%2FR410&daddr=R410&hl=en&ll=53.190608,-6.599865&spn=0.052969,0.109692&sll=53.17636,-6.552572&sspn=0.026493,0.054846&geocode=FYnoKwMdtKua_w%3BFS5sKwMd5OSb_w&dirflg=w&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=14&t=m&z=13

wav1

fran83 wrote: »

Did either of you read the part that I am running it through a club?

This league will be open to all cycling ireland members. (OPEN LEAGUE)

Every rider must hold a cycling ireland license to ride the race that will cover the insurance side of things.

What support would Cycling Ireland provide??

Good luck to you with this.A couple of pointers
1 Cycling Ireland dont run events themselves so your club as every other that promotes will have the responsibility.Cycling Leinster will provide you with warning signage which has been supplied be CI.This will be a loan on a race to race basis.
2 The closing date for next years event applications expired a month ago.You will need to deal directly with the office now in this regard as the draft calender is ready for inspection at this weekends AGM.

niceonetom

@fran83 - I think you're to be congratulated for your initiative on this. Thanks for putting it forward. There is a real lack of regular TTs within reasonable distance of Dublin and this, if it comes together, could prove really popular I think.

To me there's little doubt that there has to be room in the calendar and the racing week for another TT league and, if you and your club wish to run it in Meath and Kildare there shouldn't be any real necessity, bureaucratic or otherwise, to make it an extension of what Cuchulainn are doing in Louth or what Sorento do in Wicklow (plus the various club leagues). As I said before, I think there's a push towards complicating things before they've even been discussed in their simplest form. I would hope that CI facilitate your efforts too.

About those courses - are they intended to be out-and-back 10 milers? Which end is the start?

Leroy42

Well done Fran83 on the initiative.

Surely the calendar is not that congested as to not have any availability for additional events. If needs be put two events on the same day, yes there would be a clash but let the people decide which event they like the best/is better suited to them.

The point about CI calendar submissions being closed is somewhat strange (while I don't disagree with the facts). The Irish Hill Climb Champs were announced with what, 2 months’ notice, maybe. The days of the printed calendar having to be sent out etc are well gone. In reality it is just an online database, simple to amend. With the likes of boards etc it is much easier to get the message out there about events, again the example of the popularity of the Irish Hill Climb Champs prove that.

If the event is to be successful, it needs to be well run, well managed and well administered. The ideas about on line reg, maybe on line results are good. Particularly if it clashes with other events people will need a reason to choose your event over the other. Obviously in Year 1 there is really no reason other than it being new, but after that people will come back if the event is well run etc.

Like the idea of there being a separate league for non-TT equipment. I certainly don’t have the money (or talent) to go out and get a TT bike and it would be nice to separate. Something as simple as no tri bars/helmets. When registering people simply select which class to enter under. (I say simply not having any idea how this would actually be done!!!)

As you mentioned it would be run per the club so would come under the remit of CI, so insurance is dealt with. If this was a mutli-event it would probably make more sense to get some simple signs done up yourself (chance for advertising/sponsorship).

Count me in. TT is not really my forte (I have never actually found my forte!) but I ‘enjoyed’ the Irish HC Champs experience and this is something I would like to get involved in.

Lumen

I really couldn't care less which open events it might clash with, and I don't see why C.I. would care either.

If anything it will help to control numbers in the mass start races.

fran83, I wish you well in this initiative and will be happy to help marshall when I can.

morana

Well done Fran!

as I indicated earlier this type of event should be supported. PM if you need anything. If you have specific ideas or issues let me know.

Beasty

fran83 wrote: »

Did either of you read the part that I am running it through a club?

Sorry, I did miss that bit

That first course you posted looks a great option. There are roundabouts at both ends so in theory you could run it either way. I personally think starting at the Kilcock end may work slightly better with the uphill bit (and prevailing tailwind) on the way out and generally downhill on the way back

For anyone that's interested there are Strava segments here and here for the 2 "legs" (looks like both have been part of the Ras in different years)

On the second course, is there a natural turning place? I can't see any roundabouts - would it be a matter of turning in the road?

RobFowl

Lumen wrote: »

I really couldn't care less which open events it might clash with, and I don't see why C.I. would care either.

If anything it will help to control numbers in the mass start races.

fran83, I wish you well in this initiative and will be happy to help marshall when I can.

+1

Hope it goes well and I'd be able to help out when free

Briando

Me and 3 of my buddies would love to get involved in some TT racing.

TheNah

Great initiative, there is definitely a market out there for this - would love some more TT options next year. Will support.

fran83

Thanks lads for all the good words on this subject.

Sorry for the late replay I was away for a few days.

The planning of the league has started and I am waiting for a draft calendar to be released to finalised the dates of the league events.

Stay tuned for more

Briando

Anymore word on this?

Glass Prison 1214

I'm not a holder of a CI license so how would I go about taking part in this?

Raam

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

I'm not a holder of a CI license so how would I go about taking part in this?

Either join CI and get a license or pay for a one day license every time you want to enter, which will be 20 quid a pop if you ain't a CI member. Or you could join IVCA if you are eligible.

wav1

Raam wrote: »

Either join CI and get a license or pay for a one day license every time you want to enter, which will be 20 quid a pop if you ain't a CI member. Or you could join IVCA if you are eligible.

No one day licences after April 1st next year.

Glass Prison 1214

Raam wrote: »

Either join CI and get a license or pay for a one day license every time you want to enter, which will be 20 quid a pop if you ain't a CI member. Or you could join IVCA if you are eligible.

Thanks sorry for my ignorance but what is the IVCA?

CramCycle

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Thanks sorry for my ignorance but what is the IVCA?

Irish Veteran Cycling Association

morana

wav1 wrote: »

No one day licences after April 1st next year.

but you could get a tt only licence

or if 6 licence holders got together and formed an association such as the Irish TT federation and their events would be open to Club comp licence holders. The fee to setup such an initiative is €250 or 125 I will check. I wouldnt let the fee be an obstacle.

ROK ON

Hello.

Does anybody have an inkling as to whether this TT league is going ahead or not. I see in the provisional CI calendar that there is a Leinster TT league, but that is outside Dundalk I think - which is a non runer for me.

Thanks

lalorm

Hi All,

does anyone know if this is going ahead this year?

Regards.

fran83

Hi Lads.

I am waiting on a final calender to be brought out to organise dates and routes ect.

Any body with any routes in mind that would be safe also with some parking near by??

morana

fran83 wrote: »

Hi Lads.

I am waiting on a final calender to be brought out to organise dates and routes ect.

Any body with any routes in mind that would be safe also with some parking near by??

the calendar is available here in pdf format or on stickybottle who lifted it from here. There wont be major changes to this so you could use it for planning purposes.

Also As I mentioned earlier you could start an association if you get 6 CI licence holders together. There is a registration fee which you could recoup by levying the riders or by putting an argument to me to see if I could pursuade the board to help out. If that was the case riders would only need a club comp licence to do the events.

Also if not a member you can join CI and just get a TT licence.

Personally I would love to see this go ahead if possible.

couerdelion

morana wrote: »

Also As I mentioned earlier you could start an association if you get 6 CI licence holders together.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but could a club member also be a member of this association or is it just one or the other?

fran83

morana wrote: »

the calendar is available here in pdf format or on stickybottle who lifted it from here. There wont be major changes to this so you could use it for planning purposes.

Also As I mentioned earlier you could start an association if you get 6 CI licence holders together. There is a registration fee which you could recoup by levying the riders or by putting an argument to me to see if I could pursuade the board to help out. If that was the case riders would only need a club comp licence to do the events.

Also if not a member you can join CI and just get a TT licence.

Personally I would love to see this go ahead if possible.

Do the 6 members have to have a racing licence or will a non comp do?

Lumen

couerdelion wrote: »

Sorry if this is a dumb question but could a club member also be a member of this association or is it just one or the other?

You can be a member of multiple clubs.

Lusk Doyle

fran83 wrote: »

Do the 6 members have to have a racing licence or will a non comp do?

Any idea of the cost per member and the requirements of and implications to the members following on from what morana said about setting up an association?

morana

fran83 wrote: »

Do the 6 members have to have a racing licence or will a non comp do?

just a licence afaik

fran83

morana wrote: »

just a licence afaik

That's handy since our new club has six member with licences! I will have a chat with my club members about this issue and get onto about it.

nilhg

fran83 wrote: »

Hi Lads.

I am waiting on a final calender to be brought out to organise dates and routes ect.

Any body with any routes in mind that would be safe also with some parking near by??

What sort of routes are you looking for, out an back, loop or straight? Distance?

I'd be thinking that some of the bypassed old N roads might be suitable, a lot of them are wide with decent hard shoulders, reasonable surface and not too much traffic, think of Monasterevin- Portlaoise, Kilcullen-Athy or Kilcullen- Castledermot for example. Would parking on the hard shoulder be OK?

amjon.

Is this going ahead?

TheNah

Anyone know?