Scott Forstall Leaves Apple

Rascasse

So Scott Forstall, Senior VP of iOS, is leaving Apple.

The "Scott Forstall will be leaving Apple next year and will serve as an advisor to CEO Tim Cook in the interim." to me means he is already gone and on gardening leave.

Here's the PR;

Apple® today announced executive management changes that will encourage even more collaboration between the Company's world-class hardware, software and services teams. As part of these changes, Jony Ive, Bob Mansfield, Eddy Cue and Craig Federighi will add more responsibilities to their roles. Apple also announced that Scott Forstall will be leaving Apple next year and will serve as an advisor to CEO Tim Cook in the interim.
"We are in one of the most prolific periods of innovation and new products in Apple's history," said Tim Cook, Apple's CEO. "The amazing products that we've introduced in September and October, iPhone 5, iOS 6, iPad mini, iPad, iMac, MacBook Pro, iPod touch, iPod nano and many of our applications, could only have been created at Apple and are the direct result of our relentless focus on tightly integrating world-class hardware, software and services."

Jony Ive will provide leadership and direction for Human Interface (HI) across the company in addition to his role as the leader of Industrial Design. His incredible design aesthetic has been the driving force behind the look and feel of Apple's products for more than a decade.

Eddy Cue will take on the additional responsibility of Siri® and Maps, placing all of our online services in one group. This organization has overseen major successes such as the iTunes Store®, the App Store℠, the iBookstore℠ and iCloud®. This group has an excellent track record of building and strengthening Apple's online services to meet and exceed the high expectations of our customers.

Craig Federighi will lead both iOS and OS X®. Apple has the most advanced mobile and desktop operating systems, and this move brings together the OS teams to make it even easier to deliver the best technology and user experience innovations to both platforms.

Bob Mansfield will lead a new group, Technologies, which combines all of Apple's wireless teams across the company in one organization, fostering innovation in this area at an even higher level. This organization will also include the semiconductor teams, who have ambitious plans for the future.

Additionally, John Browett is leaving Apple. A search for a new head of Retail is underway and in the interim, the Retail team will report directly to Tim Cook. Apple's Retail organization has an incredibly strong network of leaders at the store and regional level who will continue the excellent work that has been done over the past decade to revolutionize retailing with unique, innovative services for customers.

Edit;

Very interesting that Ive is taking over 'Human Interface' control. I really hope this leads to a big shake up for iOS. I already left iOS for Android on my phone due to getting bored with the same experience the last 4 years.

It will be interesting to see what caused this. Did he jump or was he pushed?

FourFourRED

Goodbye to the stale iOS, Hello to the future of iOS with more of Jony Ive's brilliance.

Creamy Goodness

Ive is not going to change much at all.

what he will do is fix what has broken in the last few years.

number one on his list... kill all stock with skeuomorphism design, they're awful and don't work.

Sad Professor

Some very positive developments. I've had my doubts about Cook, but these changes reassure me that he knows what he's doing. Apple's had some major UI issues in recent years. Putting Ive in charge will almost certainly resolve them and put an end to these terrible skeuomorphic design elements that have been creeping in, apparently under Forstall's influence.

It also makes sense to put Siri and Maps under the online services department. Although I doubt the problems with maps, etc is the reason for Forstall's departure. He was probably just bumping heads with everyone having let all the "mini Steve" stuff go to his head.

Browett was a terrible mistake to begin with. What possessed Cook to hire him is beyond me. PC World have the worst customer service I have ever experienced. Whoever takes over from him is going to have a right mess to clean up.

Zapp Brannigan

Happy to hear Browett is gone. Couldn't believe he was hired in the first place!

ethernet

It's reported quite differently by RTÉ: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1030/apple-software-chief-out-in-radical-overhaul.html :-/

Sad Professor

RTE got that article from Reuters. But the same story about Forstall being forced out (partially due to the Maps debacle) was widely circulated overnight.

While I'm sure there's a lot of truth to it, a lot of these insider sources seem to have been conveniently lined up in readiness for this announcement. Forstall was with the company 14 years and didn't become head of iOS for nothing.

Dades

Finally, that monstrosity that is the iPad calendar app might see an overhaul.

Will be interesting to see if the "new guy" shakes iOS up a bit.

Stainless_Steel

Positive move. J Ive will undoubtedly improve the UI design.

miralize

Regarding Forstall : iOS has definitely stagnated a bit. Their hardware is too good for software that is standing still

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Stainless_Steel

Good points Plowman. Lets not forget Forstall is also responsible for all the great things we love about iOS.

miralize

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's most definitely on bad terms. He's only there to tie up loose ends on his side. The fact that he's reporting straight to Cook, means that he's going to have less face time (excuse the pun) with the other execs that found him difficult to work with.

I read an article regarding what Ive will do with iOS and I agree. iOS 7 will just be reverting or fixing some of the mistakes Forstall made, refining it. iOS 8 is where we will really see Ive's vision of the OS.

Oafley Jones

miralize wrote: »

It's most definitely on bad terms. He's only there to tie up loose ends on his side. The fact that he's reporting straight to Cook, means that he's going to have less face time (excuse the pun) with the other execs that found him difficult to work with.

I read an article regarding what Ive will do with iOS and I agree. iOS 7 will just be reverting or fixing some of the mistakes Forstall made, refining it. iOS 8 is where we will really see Ive's vision of the OS.

He's firmly in executive jail. I'd imagine he'll manage the requirements of his new role without every entering the office.

Piliger

I hope this is a sign of Cook moving to the next level as a CEO. His hiring of Browett was bizarre to say the least and it looked to me like he took some counsel from an unknown source at the time who advised his recruitment. That he has bitten the bullet quickly and decisively is a major brownie point for him.
Forstall has been a pain in the ass in Apple for years apparently. That was ok when Jobs was there because Jobs was the monster gorilla on the block and he didn't care about interpersonal issues among the department heads.
Cook is another matter altogether and I think he has been waiting for an opportunity to kick Forstall to the kerb. However anyone who thinks Forstall did bad work is deeply mistaken. He did fantastic work on iOS which is still streets ahead of Android et al. However his Management of individual projects and their ultimate delivery, like the Maps and Siri etc. proved seriously lacking. So it came to the point where his relationship problems had no upside left.
Ive's new role is a major major development imho. Remember this guy is a high priest of minimalism. But this won't be the biggest issue. The big issue will be how he Manages the delivery of a finished and functional and consistent interface. Expect some serious minimalism folks ... but if his reputation proves accurate, we should see thematic consistency and a total absence of unfinished functions such as the maps fiasco. (which by the way was NEVER EVER as bad as it has been made out to be).

miralize

Piliger wrote: »

I hope this is a sign of Cook moving to the next level as a CEO. His hiring of Browett was bizarre to say the least and it looked to me like he took some counsel from an unknown source at the time who advised his recruitment. That he has bitten the bullet quickly and decisively is a major brownie point for him.
Forstall has been a pain in the ass in Apple for years apparently. That was ok when Jobs was there because Jobs was the monster gorilla on the block and he didn't care about interpersonal issues among the department heads.
Cook is another matter altogether and I think he has been waiting for an opportunity to kick Forstall to the kerb. However anyone who thinks Forstall did bad work is deeply mistaken. He did fantastic work on iOS which is still streets ahead of Android et al. However his Management of individual projects and their ultimate delivery, like the Maps and Siri etc. proved seriously lacking. So it came to the point where his relationship problems had no upside left.
Ive's new role is a major major development imho. Remember this guy is a high priest of minimalism. But this won't be the biggest issue. The big issue will be how he Manages the delivery of a finished and functional and consistent interface. Expect some serious minimalism folks ... but if his reputation proves accurate, we should see thematic consistency and a total absence of unfinished functions such as the maps fiasco. (which by the way was NEVER EVER as bad as it has been made out to be).

No one is denying that he did poor work a a whole, but a few select iOS projects such as Maps and Siri were severely flawed. Additionally you also cant deny that iOS has become stagnated and more inconsistant. Add that to his fiery personality and his unfavourable design taste (subjective I know), it was just a matter of time before he was going to let go.

jack presley

So how much of a payoff does he get?

FourFourRED

iTunes 11 has been delayed. I'm getting quite annoyed with Apple and all their delays. Why say October if you can't be sure to deliver on that month?

I reckon there has been some serious in-house feuding going on at Apple in recent weeks.

Sad Professor

I'd rather they delay it and release it when it's ready than release it in a buggy, unfinished state, which has been a problem with other Apple apps and services recently. Hopefully the delay of iTunes 11 represents a shift away from schedule-driven releases, which was never Jobs's way of doing things anyway.

Piliger

I am delighted iTunes 11 has been delayed. What's the hurry ? NONE. Better to get it right. And I don't see any sign of any feuding either. Cook has been decisive and taken clear action. Feuding is what went before, in a planned way with Jobs.

jack presley

Piliger wrote: »

I am delighted iTunes 11 has been delayed. What's the hurry ? NONE. Better to get it right. And I don't see any sign of any feuding either. Cook has been decisive and taken clear action. Feuding is what went before, in a planned way with Jobs.

I agree. Maps was probably released to meet a deadline as opposed to waiting until they got it right, even if they lost some face for being late.

miralize

Piliger wrote: »

I am delighted iTunes 11 has been delayed. What's the hurry ? NONE. Better to get it right. And I don't see any sign of any feuding either. Cook has been decisive and taken clear action. Feuding is what went before, in a planned way with Jobs.

While not delighted like you (I want new things!), I understand that these things do get delayed. We've all put up with a subPar iTunes for a few years, we can all wait another month

quad_red

An interesting article highlighting that the problems with iOS go further than skeuomorphism.

In the end, what's wrong with iOS isn't the dark linen behind the app icons at the bottom of the screen, but the fact that iOS ought to have much better inter-application management and navigation than users fiddling with tiny icons. I'm fairly sure most Apple users would gladly continue to use what are supposed to be skeuomorphically challenged Calendar or Notebook apps for another thousand years if Apple could only solve the far more vexing software problems of AppleID unification when using iTunes and App Store, or the performance and reliability of the same. And yet these are the twin sides of the same systems design problem: the display layer surfacing or hiding the power within or, increasingly, lack thereof.

http://counternotions.com/2012/11/05/sirjony/

Piliger

An absurdly flawed and inaccurate article.

quad_red

Piliger wrote: »

An absurdly flawed and inaccurate article.

In what way?

miralize

It definitely has a point. Feature-creep and the inability to add in what many people think are barebone essentials to a modern Mobile OS is what is holding iOS back right now..

Stainless_Steel

The article makes good points. But read the last bit...we are holding apple to exceptionally high standards on iOS.

I think Ive will work magic as lead of UI design.

Dades

Six items that drain mobile device batteries (GPS, WiFi, cellular radio, Bluetooth, notifications and screen brightness) still require laborious, multiple clicks in multiple places, not immediately obvious to non-savvy users to turn on and off, without any simple, thematic or geo-fenced grouping.

This is the one I never understood. How many people jailbreak just to get SBSettings?

What do Apple do in iOS 6? Move the Bluetooth option in settings a few places higher in the settings menu. For the love of Zeus allow these toggles as an option in Notification Center (even if it means renaming it).

The article is good reading even if it reads like a personal wishlist rather than the "obvious to everyone" changes he makes them out to be. Perhaps he's angling for a job in Apple. :pac:

quad_red

Dades wrote: »

The article is good reading even if it reads like a personal wishlist rather than the "obvious to everyone" changes he makes them out to be. Perhaps he's angling for a job in Apple. :pac:

I don't think so! The awkwardness of turning wifi and bluetooth settings on and off irritates me every day.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

ArthurG

Piliger wrote: »

........He did fantastic work on iOS which is still streets ahead of Android et al.....

Having moved in the last while from iOS6 to JellyBean, I'm not sure that I could agree with you, and thats having spent my entire smartphone life with Apple up to now.

The ability to customise your phone in pretty much every way, Google Now, widgets, not to mention maps, etc etc, are in my mind far ahead of iOS (at least for now).

Thats before you even get to the simple ability to turn Wifi/Bluetooth etc off from the notification menu (sounds small but it's very very handy).

I'm sure you may disagree, but in fairness spell out why you think thats the case.

PS - I still have my old 'new iPad 3 or whatever its called, and wouldn't give it up for the world, at least until next year....

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

ArthurG

All fair points, and of course what you like is a very individual thing. I may well end up running back to iOS with my tail between my legs in a while.

However I was more looking to that dude who said iOS is streets ahead of Android - having used both I'm not sure what that is based on. And I don't mean in the magical Apple sense where just because it's Apple its better.

Then again maybe I should just drop it or it'll turn into a big Apple vs. Google rant..... :O

Piliger

ArthurG wrote: »

Having moved in the last while from iOS6 to JellyBean, I'm not sure that I could agree with you, and thats having spent my entire smartphone life with Apple up to now.

The ability to customise your phone in pretty much every way, Google Now, widgets, not to mention maps, etc etc, are in my mind far ahead of iOS (at least for now).

Thats before you even get to the simple ability to turn Wifi/Bluetooth etc off from the notification menu (sounds small but it's very very handy).

I'm sure you may disagree, but in fairness spell out why you think thats the case.

PS - I still have my old 'new iPad 3 or whatever its called, and wouldn't give it up for the world, at least until next year....

Customisation is a bore. So you can turn off wifi ... wooooo. What about the thousands of utterly broken and unreliable apps that litter the app store ? The wild variety of OS versions ? the lack of security protection for users who download apps that can suck out personal details and bank details ?
No. An OS should have design consistency, design quality, reliability and be rick solid, smooth and easy to use. It should 'just work'. That's why iOS is streets ahead of Android and why iOS users can reply on Apple security when downloading apps and using their personal and bank details.

ArthurG

Piliger wrote: »

...An OS should have design consistency....

Fair enough man, you're obviously passionate about your iOS, but don't you see the irony in this statement, in a thread about Scott Forstall?

Oafley Jones

Piliger wrote: »

An OS should have design consistency, design quality, reliability and be rick solid, smooth and easy to use.

I agree and they're the reasons I'm delighted Forstall is gone.

Piliger

ArthurG wrote: »

Fair enough man, you're obviously passionate about your iOS, but don't you see the irony in this statement, in a thread about Scott Forstall?

No. One or two exceptions just make the rule. I'm not passionate at all, just know what the best is.

DubDJ

Am I the only one who likes some of Forstalls input? For example iBooks, Game Centre and more recently Podcasts. Love the old analogue feel to the Podcasts app. And I can't picture iBooks without the book shelf. I actually really like those apps design wise. However I'd like a bit more consistency within the apps. Contacts and Calanders as an example. Use one unified design for the iPhone and iPad app. Not two completely different looking apps.

jack presley

DubDJ wrote: »

Love the old analogue feel to the Podcasts app.

Would you not prefer it to work properly and maybe have the ability to create playlists?

miralize

DubDJ wrote: »

Am I the only one who likes some of Forstalls input? For example iBooks, Game Centre and more recently Podcasts. Love the old analogue feel to the Podcasts app. And I can't picture iBooks without the book shelf. I actually really like those apps design wise. However I'd like a bit more consistency within the apps. Contacts and Calanders as an example. Use one unified design for the iPhone and iPad app. Not two completely different looking apps.

Podcasts is atrocious. The core functionality is missing, and in its place is a tape deck (Copied from Braun design no less)?!? Because so many people can relate to that, these days

DubDJ

I don't use Podcasts too much but have the general idea that it doesn't work very well. But in terms of design, I think it's a lovely looking app. But when I first opened it I found it very buggy and slow. Was my first experience with a badly written app from Apple. But I thought it looked great. I thought it had been fixed since but haven't used it recently to know.

Piliger

jack presley wrote: »

Would you not prefer it to work properly and maybe have the ability to create playlists?

Playlists of Podcasts ? why ??????

Piliger

miralize wrote: »

Podcasts is atrocious. The core functionality is missing, and in its place is a tape deck (Copied from Braun design no less)?!? Because so many people can relate to that, these days

What is the core functionality of Podcasts that is missing ? I have been using it for a few weeks and love it. It has lots of functionality .. speed control, timer, drag position, back 10, fwd 30 ......

The Tape Desk is very cool ... BUT it should be an option instead of standard, though it's easy to not tap the screen and turn it on.

What's wrong with it ?

Piliger

DubDJ wrote: »

Am I the only one who likes some of Forstalls input? For example iBooks, Game Centre and more recently Podcasts. Love the old analogue feel to the Podcasts app. And I can't picture iBooks without the book shelf. I actually really like those apps design wise. However I'd like a bit more consistency within the apps. Contacts and Calanders as an example. Use one unified design for the iPhone and iPad app. Not two completely different looking apps.

I think retro design if fine - but it should only be there as an option where there is some customisation allowed. As you say ... one unified design ... with options if they chose to allow customisation.
My favourite hate one if the shelves..... always thought it was bizarre, and in GameCentre it still is.

miralize

Piliger wrote: »

What is the core functionality of Podcasts that is missing ? I have been using it for a few weeks and love it. It has lots of functionality .. speed control, timer, drag position, back 10, fwd 30 ......

The Tape Desk is very cool ... BUT it should be an option instead of standard, though it's easy to not tap the screen and turn it on.

What's wrong with it ?

Playlists, bookmarks, iCLoud syncing, Auto refreshing... its missing alot. And its just a bit gimmicky..

DubDJ

I just had a mess around with it on my iPhone 5 and iPad (3rd gen) and it worked flawlessly. So they did work out the bugs and make it a quality app living up to their standard.

Now I'm not a big podcast listener but everything I need seems to be in the app. I manage everything through iTunes anyway so once their downloading to that and syncing to both devices it's fine for me. They probably could add a few features but I still find it a brilliant app. Works great for me. And love the UI.

jack presley

Piliger wrote: »

Playlists of Podcasts ? why ??????

I thought that'd be fairly obvious. To play them in the order you want, like any other playlist.

At the moment if you have for example multiple episodes of a few podcasts, it will play all of the episodes of the first, then all of the second, etc. whereas it'd be preferable to be able to play one of the first, then one of the second and so on.

Piliger

miralize wrote: »

Playlists, bookmarks, iCLoud syncing, Auto refreshing... its missing alot. And its just a bit gimmicky..

You're entitled of course ... but I cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone would want or need playlists or bookmarks for Podcasts. And mine autorefreshes... if that means autodownloading ... ttbomk.

Piliger

jack presley wrote: »

I thought that'd be fairly obvious. To play them in the order you want, like any other playlist.

At the moment if you have for example multiple episodes of a few podcasts, it will play all of the episodes of the first, then all of the second, etc. whereas it'd be preferable to be able to play one of the first, then one of the second and so on.

I can honestly say I find that bizarre ... but maybe I'm missing something :P

Creamy Goodness

iCloud syncing is an glaring omission.

Listening to a podcast in the morning in bed on my iPad, head off to work I want to pick up where I left off on my iPhone in the same position as I paused on my iPad.

The podcast app is atrocious, buggy and quite possibly the worst piece of software apple has produced.

I use it for all my podcasts, I have four subscriptions, one of them never updates, another one updates then it shows me no podcasts, another one randomly marks podcasts from a few weeks back as being unplayed and the final subscription i have works ok but hasn't had a new podcast in a while.

A mobile app should first and foremost be functionally bulletproof, podcasts app is anything but.

Podcasts app was broken out from the original iPod app, I ask you to compare and contrast these two apps and honestly tell me which is the better.

ArthurG

I realised a few days ago that I was (stupidly) trying to have a rational debate with fanboys in the Apple forum. Not gonna happen. Ironically I love my iPad and wouldn't switch I for anything, but I still acknowledge iOS shortcomings. What can you do? From what I can see from certain posters here its a case of ignoring it or respond with 'no one needs that functionality'.