Is there a high level of violent behaviour in GAA?

NIMAN

I am a casual watcher of GAA.

This last week I have read stories of a guy basically ripping the scrotum off an opponent, and now the Dublin hurling manager getting into a fist fight on the pitch.

Add these to the pitched battles between 20 players at club level you occasionally see.

Why is there so many incidents like this? Is the disciplinary procedures too soft?

tiddleywinks

It's the way the GAA deals with things, or perhaps refuses to face up to reality.
The Kilmaley manager at the receiving end of the three Clarecastle punches and kicks had this to say in today's Independent:
"It was a small bit of an argy bargy...But look, it's part and parcel of the game. I'd rather it would kind of be let go."
Another bright spark, Cllr. Tom Mac Namara, with Kilmaley GAA was quoted in the same article as saying "It was the funniest you ever saw because it looked like... was going to get a hammering -- one of them went for him and he fell over and the other fellas went straight over him."
This blithe acceptance of violent assault speaks volumes about the mindset in the GAA. In fact the manager who got "hammered" actually was kicked in the head and ribs whilst on the ground, and assaulted with a hurley. It's been reported that one of those involved assaulted a 15 or 16 yo player earlier on.
To me it was no argy-bargy, neither was it funny, and it certainly is not part and parcel of the game. To see anyone set upon and kicked, punched and hit with a hurley is appalling, and I wonder why someone has to make a garda report before the Garda will get involved. Were I to punch someone in broad daylight, the Gardai would be looking for me.
The case of the player having his scrotum ripped off is horrifying, and almost every week there's another report of violence at GAA matches. Perhaps if government made funding contingent on a stringent code of behaviour, then the wise men of the GAA might actually do something.

Max Power

I wouldn't say there's a high level of violence within the GAA. I go to a lot of games Senior, Intermediate, Junior and underage games, I can only speak for my own county which is Kildare but I don't see many mass brawls of course you can get the odd game where there is a nasty element to it, these are usually local derbies.

That incident where the fella had his balls ripped off was an isolated incident.

The local soccer scene is no better, some pretty nasty things go on at them games too.

NIMAN

It does seem that your point is right tiddleywinks.

There is almost an acceptance of any violence. Not harsh enough penalties. Next time there was a mass brawl then if the two teams were kicked out of the competition it might make them think twice the next time.

And as for the scrotum incident, well I simply can't get my head around the mindset of a guy who would injure at opponent to that extent. If I had anything to do with it, this guy would be facing actual bodily harm charges, or banned for several years from the sport.

Max Power

NIMAN wrote: »

It does seem that your point is right tiddleywinks.

There is almost an acceptance of any violence. Not harsh enough penalties. Next time there was a mass brawl then if the two teams were kicked out of the competition it might make them think twice the next time.

And as for the scrotum incident, well I simply can't get my head around the mindset of a guy who would injure at opponent to that extent. If I had anything to do with it, this guy would be facing actual bodily harm charges, or banned for several years from the sport.

But where would it end? We can't have a situation where anytime a lad throws a punch he ends up walking up the steps of the local court. I agree we need harsher penalties within the GAA.

Surely that scumbag got a good lengthy ban from playing football?

Mouth of the South

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

But where would it end? We can't have a situation where anytime a lad throws a punch he ends up walking up the steps of the local court. I agree we need harsher penalties within the GAA.

Surely that scumbag got a good lengthy ban from playing football?

You're making light of a very serious incident by suggesting that all acts of violence on a pitch regardless of severity would have to be treated the same. The DPP won't bring charges for one fella giving another a clip in a match. But he should be going after scumbags who commit serious bodily harm, whether that be on a pitch, in a school, on the street or anywhere else.

Max Power

Mouth of the South wrote: »

You're making light of a very serious incident by suggesting that all acts of violence on a pitch regardless of severity would have to be treated the same. The DPP won't bring charges for one fella giving another a clip in a match. But he should be going after scumbags who commit serious bodily harm, whether that be on a pitch, in a school, on the street or anywhere else.

I'm certainly not making light of what that scumbag did, if it were up to me he would be banned from football for life.

Where do you draw the line though, you could say any sort of foul is common assault.

nice_guy80

the GAA has more adult teams that play competitive games than any other sport in Ireland. most soccer games are 5-a-side. most rugby games are underage.
and most contentious adult GAA games are knockout competitions, often involving neighbouring clubs.
allied to that, GAA games are different to soccer, where contact is barely allowed and rugby where the two teams face each other and the referee 90% of the time and any foul play is easily spotted.

However, incidents in GAA games get far more publicity because they are usually being covered by the local papers. Whereas most soccer, rugby or other sports games wouldn't be getting the coverage

That's my opinion

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

I've been, and still am, involved in numerous football and hurling teams, and have played countless GAA matches and I can honestly say in no match that I've ever been involved in has ever had someone seriously injured by an opponent. There have been few occasions on which there has been violence off the ball (i.e. intentional) but these are few and far between. These stories make the news precisely because they are out of the ordinary.

Having played a good bit of soccer I can also say I have experienced more (intentional/off the ball) violence in soccer. The reason I believe these incidents don't make the news is because soccer isn't a "parish" sport, despite it probably being more popular it's not as close to people's hearts, and therefore doesn't receive as much attention, which means the incidents of violence don't receive as much attention.

So to answer the OP's question, no, I don't think there is a high level of violence in GAA, I just think it receives more media attention (especially among local newspapers), which may explain why there is a high level of perceived violence. The level of violence, at least in my experience, isn't as high than in other sports (namely soccer), and in fact, it's lower. This is, of course, strictly in my experience.

Mouth of the South

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

I'm certainly not making light of what that scumbag did, if it were up to me he would be banned from football for life.

Where do you draw the line though, you could say any sort of foul is common assault.

So just ban him from football? Rips off a man's scrotum and let him off with a ban? Oh that's a real deterrent from it ever happening again, alright.

And yet again, you are making light of the incident by suggesting that an ordinary foul such as happens countless times in the course of every game would need to be treated the same as a serious and wilful bodily assault such as this.

Max Power

Mouth of the South wrote: »

So just ban him from football? Rips off a man's scrotum and let him off with a ban? Oh that's a real deterrent from it ever happening again, alright.

And yet again, you are making light of the incident by suggesting that an ordinary foul such as happens countless times in the course of every game would need to be treated the same as a serious and wilful bodily assault such as this.

So what do you suggest?

Kick a guy and break his finger = a week in prison?

Tackle a guy and break his leg or arm = a month?

Break a lads jaw = 2 months?

Rip a lads scrotum off = electric chair?

Mouth of the South

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

So what do you suggest?

Kick a guy and break his finger = a week in prison?

Tackle a guy and break his leg or arm = a month?

Break a lads jaw = 2 months?

Rip a lads scrotum off = electric chair?

Do you believe there should be any legal recourse for anyone who has been seriously assaulted in a deliberate act of wilful violence in the course of a sports game . A simple yes or no will do.

Max Power

Mouth of the South wrote: »

Do you believe there should be any legal recourse for anyone who has been seriously assaulted in a deliberate act of wilful violence in the course of a sports game . A simple yes or no will do.

It's not as simple as a yes or no answer. What do you regard as serious?

I would regard a broken leg or arm, a broken collar bone, a broken jaw, a broken ankle as serious.

Mouth of the South

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

It's not as simple as a yes or no answer. What do you regard as serious?

I would regard a broken leg or arm, a broken collar bone, a broken jaw, a broken ankle as serious.

You go and give a weak, patethic and increasingly ridiculous apologia for extreme and wilful violence and suggest that internal bans are sufficient to deal with such incidents and that the law should never have involvement. When questioned directly on this you give a piss-poor fudge . I regard ripping the scrotum off of another player meriting the involvement of legal recourse, you clearly don't by your constant belittlement of it.

repsol

NIMAN wrote: »

I am a casual watcher of GAA.

This last week I have read stories of a guy basically ripping the scrotum off an opponent, and now the Dublin hurling manager getting into a fist fight on the pitch.

Add these to the pitched battles between 20 players at club level you occasionally see.

Why is there so many incidents like this? Is the disciplinary procedures too soft?

How dare you say that NIMAN.GAA is not violent.Withdraw that dreadful allegation immediately or myself and the lads from the team will come round and kick your head in! Of course Pat Spillane would probably describe it as a "schimozel" and "handbags mainly" and then say how great it is to see lads take the game so seriously!

NIMAN

What about that poor guy from NI who was put into a coma on New York by a guy hitting him a sly punch to the temple from behind?

For me, that is a very serious assault and probably deserving of a custodial sentence of some sort. He could easily have died and there will probably be lifelong effects of that single punch.

Hammer Archer

Mouth of the South wrote: »

I regard ripping the scrotum off of another player meriting the involvement of legal recourse, you clearly don't by your constant belittlement of it.

Give it a rest will you? No one was belittling what happened or making excuses for it. For your information, the lad that caused this injury was brought to court and (for whatever reason) was found not guilty of assault.

nice_guy80

NIMAN wrote: »

What about that poor guy from NI who was put into a coma on New York by a guy hitting him a sly punch to the temple from behind?

For me, that is a very serious assault and probably deserving of a custodial sentence of some sort. He could easily have died and there will probably be lifelong effects of that single punch.

that was very poor.

what about the rugby players who are gouged? or the soccer players who have had their legs broken deliberately
there is violence in most contact sports. you just here about the GAA stuff as it is local and more widely reported upon

kupus

Mouth of the South wrote: »

Do you believe there should be any legal recourse for anyone who has been seriously assaulted in a deliberate act of wilful violence in the course of a sports game . A simple yes or no will do.

Are you a lawyer, if so I broke my collarbone playing in a game, now the fella marking me just happened to break his as well as we charged for a ball, I remember the players at the other end of the pitch could hear the crack when we shouldered so we have witnesses.. can I sue him, oh oh can he sue me?

NIMAN wrote: »

What about that poor guy from NI who was put into a coma on New York by a guy hitting him a sly punch to the temple from behind?
For me, that is a very serious assault and probably deserving of a custodial sentence of some sort. He could easily have died and there will probably be lifelong effects of that single punch.

That was in San Francisco and yeah it was a terrible thing to happen.
I hear he's at home now, and making a good recovery, and if your reading this chin up kid.


The players need to be taught to respect the ref, and the ref needs to show more balls as well. Even have two refs in each half or use the /linesman sidelinemen to become proper officials and not the useless flag waving idiots that they are now.

Like in rugby even when there is plenty of action, the officials all talk to one another and when a decision is made it is communicated to the two captains of each squad. And its up to the captains to sort out the mess........
Instead of the whole squad surrounding the ref, I f88king hate seeing that.

jordainius

Is there a high level of violent behaviour in GAA?

A question which I believe can only be asked by someone who very rarely actually attends a GAA game. The level of "violence" is very low. The vast majority of games I attend pass off without a "violent" incident.

It's a contact sport, so physicality is always a factor and that will always lead to a bit of conflict as players will seek to get the upper hand on their opponents. It's mind games as much as anything else. It's acceptable up to a point but the odd time the line is crossed.

As for brawls on the pitch and on the sideline, so long as nobody gets seriously injured or nobody goes out to deliberately cause someone serious harm; then brawls are fine by me. Ideally I don't want to see them happen, but at least it shows the players involved give a damn.

It's way too easy to call it a disgrace and go all "Won't somebody please think of the children" because why its happening needs to be taken into consideration. These guys are doing it because they love it and because they are representing their community/club/county. It matters A LOT to them and it's driven by passion most of the time. Us versus them.

The talk of the Anthony Daly incident is stupid. That was one snapshot which didn't show what happened before or after the incident. For all we know Daly was defending himself yet some people have made their minds up based on that photograph despite the fact that they know nothing about the incident...

So no, there is not a problem with violence in the GAA. A lot of handbags stuff, and unfortunately the odd isolated incident when someone takes things too far. I really hate sensationalism....

Mouth of the South

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Give it a rest will you? No one was belittling what happened or making excuses for it. For your information, the lad that caused this injury was brought to court and (for whatever reason) was found not guilty of assault.

Are you giving me orders? The other guy suggested that anything like this should be dealt with only by GAA and that the law should never intervene. H e belittled the situation by comparing it to everyday injuries that happen in the course of the game.I'm fully entitled to give my opinion that he is wrong.

Mouth of the South

kupus wrote: »

Are you a lawyer, if so I broke my collarbone playing in a game, now the fella marking me just happened to break his as well as we charged for a ball, I remember the players at the other end of the pitch could hear the crack when we shouldered so we have witnesses.. can I sue him, oh oh can he sue me?

That's the same nonsense and belittlement that the other guy was coming up with. I'll ask you the same question as I did him,

Do you believe that a player seriously injured by willful violent and deliberate acts in the course of a sports event should ever have any recource in the law?

No fudges, no trivialising of situations, no ridiculous analogies- a simple yes or no to the principle will do.

Max Power

Mouth of the South wrote: »

Are you giving me orders? The other guy suggested that anything like this should be dealt with only by GAA and that the law should never intervene. H e belittled the situation by comparing it to everyday injuries that happen in the course of the game.I'm fully entitled to give my opinion that he is wrong.

The question mark at the end of his first sentence would suggest no he wasn't giving you orders he was asking you to give it a rest.

Where did I say that the incident didn't warrant the intervention of the law? I'm asking where does it end?

Mouth of the South wrote: »

That's the same nonsense and belittlement that the other guy was coming up with. I'll ask you the same question as I did him,

Do you believe that a player seriously injured by willful violent and deliberate acts in the course of a sports event should ever have any recource in the law?

No fudges, no trivialising of situations, no ridiculous analogies- a simple yes or no to the principle will do.

Again this is not a simple yes or no answer.

Are you a solicitor? Or Joe Brolly perhaps?

jordainius

Mouth of the South wrote: »

Do you believe that a player seriously injured by willful violent and deliberate acts in the course of a sports event should ever have any recource in the law?

But sure it's already the case that they're allowed take it up in a court of law if they wish. It just rarely happens, I'd imagine that's because such court cases are far from straightforward and don't always go in favour of the injured party.

Mouth of the South

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

The question mark at the end of his first sentence would suggest no he wasn't giving you orders he was asking you to give it a rest.

Where did I say that the incident didn't warrant the intervention of the law? I'm asking where does it end?

Again this is not a simple yes or no answer.

Are you a solicitor? Or Joe Brolly perhaps?

You weakly fudged and dodged the question already when put to you last night, why do you need to give the very same weak fudge and dodge when I direct the question at someone else?

dirtyden

Mouth of the South wrote: »

That's the same nonsense and belittlement that the other guy was coming up with. I'll ask you the same question as I did him,

Do you believe that a player seriously injured by willful violent and deliberate acts in the course of a sports event should ever have any recource in the law?

No fudges, no trivialising of situations, no ridiculous analogies- a simple yes or no to the principle will do.

It would depend on your definition of what a wilful violent act is. Would it be a late shoulder or pull? Or would it have to be off the ball?

You want this black and white but it is in fact a very grey area. Incidents happen on sports pitches in every sport that are unpalatable, a very small few cross the line into what might be criminal, but most are part of the physical and competitive nature of the sport.

The scrotum incident did go to court and the accused was acquitted, so I think that does back up my point about clarity. The judge in the circuit in this case could not decide on intent, and I think agreed with the accused that he merely meant to pull him back by the jersey.

We could pick numerous incidents from other sports also. Spear tackles in rugby, eye gouging, legs smashed to bits by football tackles, ice hockey brawls (none of these go to the courts). A more holistic view might not suit the agenda of some of the posters here.

Mouth of the South

dirtyden wrote: »

It would depend on your definition of what a wilful violent act is. Would it be a late shoulder or pull? Or would it have to be off the ball?

You want this black and white but it is in fact a very grey area. Incidents happen on sports pitches in every sport that are unpalatable, a very small few cross the line into what might be criminal, but most are part of the physical and competitive nature of the sport.

The scrotum incident did go to court and the accused was acquitted, so I think that does back up my point about clarity. The judge in the circuit in this case could not decide on intent, and I think agreed with the accused that he merely meant to pull him back by the jersey.

We could pick numerous incidents from other sports also. Spear tackles in rugby, eye gouging, legs smashed to bits by football tackles, ice hockey brawls (none of these go to the courts). A more holistic view might not suit the agenda of some of the posters here.

It's the crowd who don't want there to be any recourse in the law who want this to be black/white and use of buzzwords like "holistic" and "agenda" don't make that any less so.

JazzyJ

In 20 years playing I've seen 2 serious mouth injuries from unprovoked blind sided punches. One ended up going to court with the aggressor being convicted. Both victims have had significant dental costs in the following years (wear your gum-shields!!!!).

In saying that I don't think there's a high level of violent behaviour. It's a physical game and there's always going to a fair amount of pulling, dragging and shoving as players try to get the upper hand. But for the most part that's all it is. As with all areas of life there is going to be the minority that cause trouble, and they'd do it if they were playing any contact sport - be it GAA, rugby, soccer, etc.

I think that the majority of players and management know where the line between hard and fair and assault lies. The incidents that cross that line should be dealt with as assault - and those incidents are usually black and white.

afro man

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

I wouldn't say there's a high level of violence within the GAA. I go to a lot of games Senior, Intermediate, Junior and underage games, I can only speak for my own county which is Kildare but I don't see many mass brawls of course you can get the odd game where there is a nasty element to it, these are usually local derbies.

That incident where the fella had his balls ripped off was an isolated incident.

The local soccer scene is no better, some pretty nasty things go on at them games too.

ah yes lets blame the easy target soccer ,

isolated incident thats ok so involved with soccer teams over 20 years and never heard of an incident like that :mad: dont think i have seen rival managers / coaches having a punch up on sideline, have seen a few brawls on pitches which usually end with referee sending off players or abandoning game rarely do you see that in Gaa games referee stands back and lets them at it and then we restart the game, even before games start players are shouldering each other sly digs with hurls into back / kidneys and then when a sub comes on he usually is met with a few shoulders or digs between himself and marker if this happened in soccer both would be booked straight away most nasty things in soccer if seen by referee gets punished cant say the same about the gaa,it's part of the gaa culture now you need a good row and few busts up to entertain the crowd.

Dickys Back Garden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exd7nqV5-cE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgF_jfNnBlo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBXWY9YTd6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOUN8-9xTw0

Third one is particularly interesting. Is there a problem with violence in the GAA? Its all relative I suppose. Judging by these above, particularly the third video, I’d think not! Rugby violence appears however to be condoned at best, celebrated at worst by the "boys" in independent newspapers whereas GAA fights receive front page coverage-whether its a Wicklow junior B Football match or an All Ireland Hurling final. These clips are more violent than anything I have experienced at GAA games. I'd suggest asking the same question on the rugby forum, reaction might be interesting!

dirtyden

afro man wrote: »

ah yes lets blame the easy target soccer ,

isolated incident thats ok so involved with soccer teams over 20 years and never heard of an incident like that :mad: dont think i have seen rival managers / coaches having a punch up on sideline, have seen a few brawls on pitches which usually end with referee sending off players or abandoning game rarely do you see that in Gaa games referee stands back and lets them at it and then we restart the game, even before games start players are shouldering each other sly digs with hurls into back / kidneys and then when a sub comes on he usually is met with a few shoulders or digs between himself and marker if this happened in soccer both would be booked straight away most nasty things in soccer if seen by referee gets punished cant say the same about the gaa,it's part of the gaa culture now you need a good row and few busts up to entertain the crowd.

You obviously dont follow GAA.