Most Talented Irish Rugby Player 21 and under

goreyguy

Just wondering the boards opinion on who you consider to be the most talented rugby player aged 21 and under. Someone you would consider to be a "lock" for 50+ Ireland caps barring disastrous injury.

Some names that come to mind:
Iain Henderson(Ulster)
Paddy Jackson(Ulster)
Craig Gilroy(Ulster)
Rhys Ruddock(Leinster)
Andrew Conway(Leinster)
Paddy Butler(Munster)
JJ Hanrahan(Munster)
Tiernan O'Halloran(Connacht)
Rob Henshaw(Connacht)

Fireball07

Henderson imo.

Wexfordboy89

last season ruddock this season henderson

irishbucsfan

Easily Henderson.

The players I'm most excited about are Henderson, Hanrahan, Layden, Furlong and Olding.

Deano7788

Just a small point but I would hope none of those are a "lock" for 50 caps. Firstly, it's far too early to judge that and secondly, I'd actually find it slightly depressing if they were to remain completely unchallenged for their positions in the squad for a long period. I'd much prefer if there was serious competition for every spot and they had to earn each and every cap they get. Hopefully, the days where it's almost harder to get out of the team than into it are almost over.

Thankfully, just from some of the names you've mentioned it looks like there's going to be plenty of competition; Gilroy, Conway and O'Halloran for the wings, along with the likes of Zebo, while Jackson and Hanrahan could potentially end up competing against each other at 10 depending on where JJ ends up.

I'd also add Furlong to that list by the way.

At the moment, I would say that Henderson is currently in the lead but for Jackson and Hanrahan (and Furlong) experience will be vital so who knows how good they can be.

goreyguy

world class players should be "locks" to get at least 50 caps for Ireland imo.

danthefan

It's Jackson or JJ.

Deano7788

goreyguy wrote: »

world class players should be "locks" to get at least 50 caps for Ireland imo.

And for the most part, if the player is world class, he will, but that depends on your definition of world class ( which I think is thrown around too freely). Also, these aren't world class players we're talking about, they're guys that are around 20 and for most part have made a handful of appearances for their provinces. They're very talented but we can't say that they'll fulfill their potential or not yet. There's still far too much developing left for them to do.

shuffol

Best forward, Henderson

Best Halfback, Jackson

Best outside back, Chris Farrell

TheJims

shuffol wrote: »

Best forward, Henderson

Best Halfback, Jackson

Best outside back, Chris Farrell

Thats a very ulster view on things! Henderson is very impressive at the moment for sure, whats Jacksons size like compared to other irish fly halves, and other internationals ones for that matter. he strikes me as lightweight?

I didnt realize Tiernan O'Halloran, Paddy Butler and Rhys Ruddock are all 21 or under!

jm08

I was as impressed with Gilsenan as I was with Henderson at the Junior World Cup.

JJ is the most talented. He is a Contempomi, Jackson is a ROG.

bilston

jm08 wrote: »

I was as impressed with Gilsenan as I was with Henderson at the Junior World Cup.

JJ is the most talented. He is a Contempomi, Jackson is a ROG.

I'm half tempted to report that post!!

I've never ever seen ROG give a pass like the one Jackson gave to Payne last night or make the breaks that Jackson does and as for defence, feck it's like chalk and cheese. Jackson couldn't be further removed from ROG actually!

The most exciting young players in Ireland are Jackson, Henderson, Henshaw and Hanrahan IMO. They'll all get 50 caps easily if they stay fit.

danthefan

bilston wrote: »

I'm half tempted to report that post!!

I've never ever seen ROG give a pass like the one Jackson gave to Payne last night or make the breaks that Jackson does and as for defence, feck it's like chalk and cheese. Jackson couldn't be further removed from ROG actually!

The most exciting young players in Ireland are Jackson, Henderson, Henshaw and Hanrahan IMO. They'll all get 50 caps easily if they stay fit.

Jackon has it all. A complete game. It's just a matter of maturing now as a player, gaining more experience, developing as a first choice player. He can do everything though.

RoundBox11

jm08 wrote: »

Jackson is a ROG.

Are you suggesting that Jackson may someday be... dare i say, ABOVE international standard??

Aren't we the lucky ones!

bilston

goreyguy wrote: »

Just wondering the boards opinion on who you consider to be the most talented rugby player aged 21 and under. Someone you would consider to be a "lock" for 50+ Ireland caps barring disastrous injury.

Some names that come to mind:
Iain Henderson(Ulster)
Paddy Jackson(Ulster)
Craig Gilroy(Ulster)
Rhys Ruddock(Leinster)
Andrew Conway(Leinster)
Paddy Butler(Munster)
JJ Hanrahan(Munster)
Tiernan O'Halloran(Connacht)
Rob Henshaw(Connacht)

What age is Macken? He looked to have stepped it up a bit this season. Leinster have the quantity when it comes to age group level but actually the real top quality may be at the other provinces. Maybe it's just harder to stand out at Leinster. I had hoped Conway and Ruddock would be further along by now, likewise Ryan but I suppose injuries haven't helped. I liked Conan and Gilsenan at the JWC and while he maybe didnt quite live up to billing last year I still think McGrath will be the real deal.

Fireball07

bilston wrote: »

What age is Macken? He looked to have stepped it up a bit this season. Leinster have the quantity when it comes to age group level but actually the real top quality may be at the other provinces. Maybe it's just harder to stand out at Leinster. I had hoped Conway and Ruddock would be further along by now, likewise Ryan but I suppose injuries haven't helped. I liked Conan and Gilsenan at the JWC and while he maybe didnt quite live up to billing last year I still think McGrath will be the real deal.

I don't know about Macken... lots of talent, but there are severe questions over his defence. Still plenty of time for him of course.

ireland01

Shane Leydon, imo a better player than Henshaw before he got injured and was brilliant in the 6 nations. Definitely one for the future

jm08

bilston wrote: »

I'm half tempted to report that post!!

I've never ever seen ROG give a pass like the one Jackson gave to Payne last night or make the breaks that Jackson does and as for defence, feck it's like chalk and cheese. Jackson couldn't be further removed from ROG actually!

The most exciting young players in Ireland are Jackson, Henderson, Henshaw and Hanrahan IMO. They'll all get 50 caps easily if they stay fit.

Sorry, I didn't see the Ulster game last night. I'm basing my opinion on watching all those players in the same team, against the same opposition for the U20s 6Ns last year and earlier this year and the U20s (minus Jackson) this year.

Most outhalf's would be very happy to be compared to O'Gara and his world class game management & kicking.

Hanrahan is like Contempomi as you would never know what he would try next (not always a good thing)!

O'Gara has an excellent pass. You should watch the 2007 6Ns in particular some time.

Ciaran-Irl

I reckon Luke Marshall up in Ulster is the best prospect for a centre. Of the next generation after that, I reckon Leavy will end up being an International at openside.

danthefan

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I reckon Luke Marshall up in Ulster is the best prospect for a centre. Of the next generation after that, I reckon Leavy will end up being an International at openside.

Never seen him play tbh but have heard he's got huge potential. A proper 7.

GerM

ROG certainly has those talents but Jackson is a lot more fluid in what he does. He can take ball on the run and switch proceedings very quickly. He can spot a gap and go. He has a sleight of hand that ROG doesn't display.

I think Jackson comes across as more pragmatic and one dimensional in relation to the likes of Hanrahan and Madigan who are very much have a go type players but in reality he's probably close enough to Sexton in terms of his playing style. He has a good all round game and is only going to get better. I really look forward to seeing how his career unfolds because the sky is the limit for the bloke.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jm08 wrote: »

I was as impressed with Gilsenan as I was with Henderson at the Junior World Cup.

JJ is the most talented. He is a Contempomi, Jackson is a ROG.

To be honest he reminds me more of Paddy Wallace then Felipe

GerM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

To be honest he reminds me more of Paddy Wallace then Felipe

I'm thinking more Stephen Donald.

CIARAN_BOYLE

GerM wrote: »

I'm thinking more Stephen Donald.

If he wins a WC at 10 for Ireland he'll forgive you the comparison:P:P

6dsp9

bilston wrote: »

I'm half tempted to report that post!!

I've never ever seen ROG give a pass like the one Jackson gave to Payne last night or make the breaks that Jackson does and as for defence, feck it's like chalk and cheese. Jackson couldn't be further removed from ROG actually!

The most exciting young players in Ireland are Jackson, Henderson, Henshaw and Hanrahan IMO. They'll all get 50 caps easily if they stay fit.

with all due respect to Henshaw he hasn't actually "done" anything yet,whilst it's a huge step up for him to be starting and he's holding his ground really well to be referring to him as one of the most exciting young players around is a bit premature. Wait until he plays 20s in February and then compare him to the other lads.
That aside Henderson is a very complete player and really has what it takes to go far

bilston

jm08 wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't see the Ulster game last night. I'm basing my opinion on watching all those players in the same team, against the same opposition for the U20s 6Ns last year and earlier this year and the U20s (minus Jackson) this year.

Most outhalf's would be very happy to be compared to O'Gara and his world class game management & kicking.

Hanrahan is like Contempomi as you would never know what he would try next (not always a good thing)!

O'Gara has an excellent pass. You should watch the 2007 6Ns in particular some time.

I wasn't trying to knock ROG. Whatever I think about the 35/36 year old ROG I think he's been a marvellous player over the years. I'm just saying I don't think Jackson is that much like ROG.

As for 2007, yeah I was at the England
and France games and while I'll happy watch the England game again I've neverleft ground so gutted before as I did after that French game so I hope you'll understand if I don't watch it again!!

goreyguy

Deano7788 wrote: »

And for the most part, if the player is world class, he will, but that depends on your definition of world class ( which I think is thrown around too freely). Also, these aren't world class players we're talking about, they're guys that are around 20 and for most part have made a handful of appearances for their provinces. They're very talented but we can't say that they'll fulfill their potential or not yet. There's still far too much developing left for them to do.

never said any of these players were world class, but which has the most talent that if they fulfilled their potential would be a "world class player" that might earn 50+ caps for Ireland.

f1dan

No mention of Kieran Marmion or Denis Buckley yet. They've been two of Connacht's best players all season.

Deano7788

goreyguy wrote: »

never said any of these players were world class, but which has the most talent that if they fulfilled their potential would be a "world class player" that might earn 50+ caps for Ireland.

Ok that I agree with, I just took issue with the word "lock".

By the way, don't forget a lot of the players you mentioned will be competing against each other so it will be harder to accumulate caps.

totallegend

f1dan wrote: »

No mention of Kieran Marmion or Denis Buckley yet. They've been two of Connacht's best players all season.

That's because Connacht are never on TV so most of us haven't a rashers how they're doing!

Chavways

I'd say JJ. I saw him playing for Rockwell 2 years ago and he was the centrepiece of the team. He's come on leaps and bounds since then so in 3-4 more years who knows where he could be.

Quint2010

Dan Leavy. 18 and already scored a try for Leinster A. Phenomenal talent.

Brendan97

I think Craig Gilroy is one of the best wingers in Ireland, nevermind just u21 players! He's incredible!

GerM

Brendan97 wrote: »

I think Craig Gilroy is one of the best wingers in Ireland, nevermind just u21 players! He's incredible!

He'll have to start making the Ulster team before he gets those plaudits regularly. No shame in being behind Bowe and Trimble but he was behind Michael Allen too until he got injured. Gilroy needs to get some consistency into his game. He can be great for a few weeks and then does nothing for a few months.

bilston

GerM wrote: »

He'll have to start making the Ulster team before he gets those plaudits regularly. No shame in being behind Bowe and Trimble but he was behind Michael Allen too until he got injured. Gilroy needs to get some consistency into his game. He can be great for a few weeks and then does nothing for a few months.

In fairness he was behind Michael Allen for one match at a time when Anscombe was rotating the side, I think if Ulster were playing a HEC ganesh he'd be ahead of Allen. I think Gilroy is talented and I'm pretty sure he'll go on to play for Ireland and last summer anyway on form should have been ahead of Zebo IMO but I think there more talented under 21 year olds out there.

.ak

What age is Gilsenan? Huge prospect imo.

bamboozle

Maybe i'm wrong but is Jackson's points kicking game strong enough, he seemed pretty erratic last season. Himself, Sexton and JJ will form the irish 10-12 axis in seasons to come.

Henderson is an incredible player already, i'd quiet happily see him the our 6N squad this year - he's in our top 4 second rows right now (along with POC, McCarthy, Touhy)

The more i see of Furlong the more impressed i become. Really like the way Leinster are allowing the likes of himself, Moore, O'Connell get decent AIL exposure to learn their dark arts.

For all the Luke McGrath hype last season Marmion has stolen a march on him and looks a great player, look forward to seeing a Connacht backline with Leyden, Henshaw, Marmion, Griffen, TOH in it.

bilston

bamboozle wrote: »

Maybe i'm wrong but is Jackson's points kicking game strong enough, he seemed pretty erratic last season. Himself, Sexton and JJ will form the irish 10-12 axis in seasons to come.

Jackson's goalkicking percentages are around and if anything over 80% for the season so far, nothing to worry about there.

rrpc

bilston wrote: »

Jackson's goalkicking percentages are around and if anything over 80% for the season so far, nothing to worry about there.

According to the Rabo site (not updated for last weekend yet), his goalkicking is at 70%

bilston

rrpc wrote: »

According to the Rabo site (not updated for last weekend yet), his goalkicking is at 70%

It says he's 14/20 and I don't think those stats are up to date as the same website says he has 18 successful kicks this season which would appear to include his 4/4 against Connacht (he didn't kick against the Dragons at the weekend). His HEC stats are 13/15, so if I'm right he's 31/39 which is 79.5%.

leonard7

quite funny how at schoolboy level allen was touted to be the next be thing in ulster then along came jackson and then gilroy the late bloomer came onto the scene...allen would be more a talented player than gilroy skillswise but gilroy has obviously proven himself more at rabo level

rrpc

bilston wrote: »

It says he's 14/20 and I don't think those stats are up to date as the same website says he has 18 successful kicks this season which would appear to include his 4/4 against Connacht (he didn't kick against the Dragons at the weekend). His HEC stats are 13/15, so if I'm right he's 31/39 which is 79.5%.

Was it 4/4 against Connacht though? Three tries were scored and only two converted. Assuming no other kicks were missed (and there are no stats for that), that drops it down to 77.5%

ESPN scrum.com (who seem to suggest that all kickers in the Rabo get 100% ) have Connacht conceding 17 penalties. I doubt that only two of them were kickable.

Deano7788

rrpc wrote: »

Was it 4/4 against Connacht though? Three tries were scored and only two converted. Assuming no other kicks were missed (and there are no stats for that), that drops it down to 77.5%

Wallace missed the last conversion not Jackson, Jackson was 4/4.

bilston

rrpc wrote: »

Was it 4/4 against Connacht though? Three tries were scored and only two converted. Assuming no other kicks were missed (and there are no stats for that), that drops it down to 77.5%

ESPN scrum.com (who seem to suggest that all kickers in the Rabo get 100% ) have Connacht conceding 17 penalties. I doubt that only two of them were kickable.

As Deano has said Luke Marshall scored a try in the 80th minute or something like that and Wallace took and missed the conversion. Jackson had been subbed by then.

Anyway while I'm fairly confident he's at 79.5% the point is that his kicking has been reliable for us this season. He had the cojones to kick a late penalty to win the game against Munster and his goalkicking in rubbish conditions in Glasgow basically won the game for us on the back of some good work by the pack. He also came off the bench against the Ospreys and nailed some important kicks to help Ulster win at the Liberty.

Cpt_Blackbeard

bamboozle wrote: »

Maybe i'm wrong but is Jackson's points kicking game strong enough, he seemed pretty erratic last season. Himself, Sexton and JJ will form the irish 10-12 axis in seasons to come.

Henderson is an incredible player already, i'd quiet happily see him the our 6N squad this year - he's in our top 4 second rows right now (along with POC, McCarthy, Touhy)

The more i see of Furlong the more impressed i become. Really like the way Leinster are allowing the likes of himself, Moore, O'Connell get decent AIL exposure to learn their dark arts.

For all the Luke McGrath hype last season Marmion has stolen a march on him and looks a great player, look forward to seeing a Connacht backline with Leyden, Henshaw, Marmion, Griffen, TOH in it.

Has Henderson even played in the second row at senior level? I certainly don't see what he has done to get ahead of Donnacha Ryan who has probably been Ireland's best player this year. As a lock, Henderson would be miles down the list in terms of an Irish jersey; he wouldn't even be in the top 10 at present.

rrpc

Deano7788 wrote: »

Wallace missed the last conversion not Jackson, Jackson was 4/4.

Whoever's compiling the stats for the Rhino Golden Boot needs to be given the golden boot .

bilston

leonard7 wrote: »

quite funny how at schoolboy level allen was touted to be the next be thing in ulster then along came jackson and then gilroy the late bloomer came onto the scene...allen would be more a talented player than gilroy skillswise but gilroy has obviously proven himself more at rabo level

I think Allen is beginning to realise his talent...to what extent remains to be seen but I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more of him at 13.

I remember a couple of Collegians I know telling me about Jackson when he was about 15, he was probably indentified from quite a young age.

Gilroy though kind of came from nowhere. I remember watching the Schools Cup final where Methody played Inst (2009 final I think?) and MCB had five or six guys on their team who are now either in the Ulster squad or in the Academy and Gilroy obviously was one of those but I don't remember him at all from that final and I don't remember him ever being talked about.

hype101

Chris Farrell (still 19) is one to watch.. 6'4 with skills and pace.. Looks like the complete package.. Saw him play a warm up game this year against Newcastle and his handling skills for a big guy were something else.. Such a shame he did his ACL.. Hopefully he'll be back for the u20s wc in which case he'd do serious damage.. Himself n Henshaw in midfield would be some partnership.

There are lots of promising young players in Irish rugby but I was struck by what Shane Horgan said the other nite.. Talking about Hanrahan, he was saying how its funny that the v best young fellas tend to make an immeadiate impact.. Two tries and MOTM.. Might be a bit too simplistic to say in the modern game and it's position specific but it's a fair point.. There was an instant impact for example when O'Driscoll, O'Connell, Ferris, Healy, Earls etc first made the step up

Fishooks12

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Has Henderson even played in the second row at senior level? I certainly don't see what he has done to get ahead of Donnacha Ryan who has probably been Ireland's best player this year. As a lock, Henderson would be miles down the list in terms of an Irish jersey; he wouldn't even be in the top 10 at present.

True. This notion of Henderson in the second row is somewhat odd considering he's never started a senior game there if I'm correct..

Probably the form 6 in Ireland right now though

leonard7

bilston wrote: »

I think Allen is beginning to realise his talent...to what extent remains to be seen but I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more of him at 13.

I remember a couple of Collegians I know telling me about Jackson when he was about 15, he was probably indentified from quite a young age.

Gilroy though kind of came from nowhere. I remember watching the Schools Cup final where Methody played Inst (2009 final I think?) and MCB had five or six guys on their team who are now either in the Ulster squad or in the Academy and Gilroy obviously was one of those but I don't remember him at all from that final and I don't remember him ever being talked about.

Gilroy played backrow for MCB 3rds until 5th year then went to B.R.A. for a year where he got a fresh start and excelled at wing. when he came back to MCB he was then put on the wing and started for the 1sts the majority of the rest of his school time. there was definitely some shock at the fact that he had been playing so well for BRA

leonard7

also re: jackson he was very good from a young age but there were worries about his size as he was literally tiny until about 16ish still remember him kicking at the age of 11 and trying to kick from the 22 and not having the legs when everyone else would be trying from as close as possible