Trailer on driving license, when did it change?

Yawlboy

I've been told that if you've passed your B driving test before 1994 that you are automatically entitled to the E (trailer) part on your license. Apparently you just have to go and ask for it. Does anyone know if that's correct?

darragh o meara

Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened. My mother had rigid, artic and full compliment of buses on her licence and never drove anything bigger than a swb transit!!!

Paddy001

You used be able to get it before some date in 2001 or 2002 when you had the B, dunno if you can go back and get it now if you passed before then, I've a feeling you can though!

stoneill

If you need the trailer part of the licence you need a medical cert from your doctor.

slimjimmc

stoneill wrote: »

If you need the trailer part of the licence you need a medical cert from your doctor.

Except for a car+trailer (EB) licence which is what the OP was asking about.

RSA:

All holders of full driving licences for categories C1 (large van/small truck), C (rigid truck), D1 (minibus), D (bus), EC1 (large van/small truck with trailer), EC (articulated truck), ED1 (minibus with trailer) or ED (bus with trailer) must produce a medical report (completed by a doctor) to add any of these categories to their licence.

CiniO

Yawlboy wrote: »

I've been told that if you've passed your B driving test before 1994 that you are automatically entitled to the E (trailer) part on your license. Apparently you just have to go and ask for it. Does anyone know if that's correct?

Even if there was something like that before 1994 that you got EB together with B it surely doesn't apply anymore.
So if you don't have EB written on your licence, then to get it you must do the theory and driving test.

Del2005

Paddy001 wrote: »

You used be able to get it before some date in 2001 or 2002 when you had the B, dunno if you can go back and get it now if you passed before then, I've a feeling you can though!

I passed in 98 and only got B.

IIRC if you lost an entitlement from your license you only have a few years to get it back or else you need to start from scratch, can't remember the time limit.

BrianD3

From looking at irish statutebook the cutoff date may be 13th November 1989 rather than 1994
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/si/0285.html#zzsi285y1989a2

(2) For the purposes of sub-article (1) of this article a driving licence in respect of a category set out in column 1 of the following Table shall be regarded as a driving licence in respect of the category or any of the categories set out in column 2 of the said Table opposite the mention in column 1 of that category

Column 1.............Column 2
Category.............Categories
B........................B and W

niloc1951

From the RSA website.

What trailers does my category B licence cover?

You can tow a trailer with a MAM no greater than 750kg,

and/or

Where the MAM of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the vehicle, then the MAM of the trailer can be greater than 750kg provided that the combined MAM of the vehicle and trailer is not greater than 3500kg.
As a general rule your category B licence would not allow you to tow a horsebox or a livestock trailer for bringing animals to the local mart.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Driving-licence/Cars-and-Trailers/

Yawlboy

Went to the Motor Tax Office this morning and they confirmed that it was 1989 - so I have to apply for a provisional(€15), after I do an eye test(€40) and my theory test (€45)

dearg lady

Yawlboy wrote: »

Went to the Motor Tax Office this morning and they confirmed that it was 1989 - so I have to apply for a provisional(€15), after I do an eye test(€40) and my theory test (€45)

where is an eye test costing you €40?!

Please Kill Me

niloc1951 wrote: »

From the RSA website.

What trailers does my category B licence cover?

You can tow a trailer with a MAM no greater than 750kg,

and/or

Where the MAM of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the vehicle, then the MAM of the trailer can be greater than 750kg provided that the combined MAM of the vehicle and trailer is not greater than 3500kg.
As a general rule your category B licence would not allow you to tow a horsebox or a livestock trailer for bringing animals to the local mart.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Driving-licence/Cars-and-Trailers/

But does it matter if the trailer is single axle or twin axle? EG. I have a twin axle 8ft x 4ft builders trailer (I use it for transporting the motorbike to/from trackdays etc.) and I was only told yesterday that because it's a twin axle, I'm not legally allowed to pull it unless I have a 4x4 (which I don't) Any truth in this?

CJhaughey

Please Kill Me wrote: »

) Any truth in this?

No, it goes by weight.

CiniO

Please Kill Me wrote: »

But does it matter if the trailer is single axle or twin axle? EG. I have a twin axle 8ft x 4ft builders trailer (I use it for transporting the motorbike to/from trackdays etc.) and I was only told yesterday that because it's a twin axle, I'm not legally allowed to pull it unless I have a 4x4 (which I don't) Any truth in this?

Both number of trailer axles and type of pulling vehicle (4wd, fwd, rwd) are completely irrelevant when it comes to legality of trailers and required licences.
Weights is all that matters.

Yawlboy

dearg lady wrote: »

where is an eye test costing you €40?!

local opticians - is that expensive?

the culture of deference

I wish trailer drivers were more aware of their speed limits.

I got overtaken doing 120kph on the M11 by a guy in an old Nissan towing a car trailer.

Please Kill Me

the culture of deference wrote: »

I wish trailer drivers were more aware of their speed limits.

I got overtaken doing 120kph on the M11 by a guy in an old Nissan towing a car trailer.

Agreed. I never pass 100kph, laden or unladen!!

CiniO

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Agreed. I never pass 100kph, laden or unladen!!

Still wrong though.
You are meant not to exceed 80km/h when towing a trailer.

Actually car+trailer is the vehicles with slowest speed limit on motorways out of every vehiicle.
On motorways all normal cars + van's can travel 120km/h.
Buses can travel at 100km/h
Trucks including articulated truck or trucks towing trailers can do 90km/h.
Cars and vans towing trailers can do 80km/h.

Please Kill Me

CiniO wrote: »

Still wrong though.
You are meant not to exceed 80km/h when towing a trailer.

<snip>

Cars and vans towing trailers can do 80km/h.

Really? Jaysus thank's for that. I honestly thought it was 100kph. Thanks man.

the culture of deference

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Really? Jaysus thank's for that. I honestly thought it was 100kph. Thanks man.

I felt unsafe when the guy in the Nissan went past me.

(A) He was going 130 +
(B) The car he had was a piece of Sh1t
(C) Car and trailer were shaking/vibrating alarmingly

What are you supposed to do in situations like this?

Please Kill Me

the culture of deference wrote: »

I felt unsafe when the guy in the Nissan went past me.

(A) He was going 130 +
(B) The car he had was a piece of Sh1t
(C) Car and trailer were shaking/vibrating alarmingly

What are you supposed to do in situations like this?

You: Stay out of his way!

Him: Slow the f**k down!!

That's ridiculous! The trailer I have is solid, never bounces or shakes. You wouldn't even know you were pulling a trailer. But I still wouldn't risk going above 100k's.

CiniO

the culture of deference wrote: »

(B) The car he had was a piece of Sh1t

How do you know?

nhg

Yawlboy wrote: »

Went to the Motor Tax Office this morning and they confirmed that it was 1989 - so I have to apply for a provisional(€15), after I do an eye test(€40) and my theory test (€45)

I enquired earlier in the year when renewing my licence & I was only out by a few weeks, covered to pull single axle trailer but will have to do theory test, apply for provisional etc if I want to pull double axle trailer - never pulled a trailer in my life & will hardly ever do in the future 😛

CiniO

nhg wrote: »

I enquired earlier in the year when renewing my licence & I was only out by a few weeks, covered to pull single axle trailer but will have to do theory test, apply for provisional etc if I want to pull double axle trailer - never pulled a trailer in my life & will hardly ever do in the future 😛

Did they tell you in motor tax office you were ok to drive single axle but not OK to drive double axle???
I wouldn't be surpriced if they told you that, but it's definitely wrong information.

CiniO

embracingLife wrote: »

You are allowed to pull a loaded trailer weight up to 750kgs (whether its single axle or twin axle). Generally single axle trailers laden weight would be around 750kgs. Any laden trailer weight above this you will need the licence.

That's not true.
You can tow heavier trailers than this, on B licence. It was discussed hundreds times on this forum.
Also weight limit doesn't apply to laden trailer weight, but "gross vehicle weight" which is a trailer weight + possible load. So this is a parameter once set for the trailer, and amount of stuff you are carrying in it doesn't really matter. (unless trailer is overloaded)

That's probably why the tax office person told that you can tow a single axle trailer without a trailer licence.

Tax office person told him this, because they have no clue about the job they are doing.

goz83

Yawlboy wrote: »

local opticians - is that expensive?

I would say. Only cost €15 in 2 local opticians here in Dublin. You don't need the full eye test...just one for the driver license.

embracingLife

CiniO wrote: »

That's not true.
You can tow heavier trailers than this, on B licence. It was discussed hundreds times on this forum.
Also weight limit doesn't apply to laden trailer weight, but "gross vehicle weight" which is a trailer weight + possible load. So this is a parameter once set for the trailer, and amount of stuff you are carrying in it doesn't really matter. (unless trailer is overloaded)



Tax office person told him this, because they have no clue about the job they are doing.

I just made a comment-my opinion in reply to the other person. Spare me the whine about whats been supposedly said a "hundred times" already. I don't come on here much,so I'm not going to read all the other posts. I just gave my opinion to the other person so spare me the lecture.

CiniO

embracingLife wrote: »

I just made a comment-my opinion in reply to the other person. Spare me the whine about whats been supposedly said a "hundred times" already. I don't come on here much,so I'm not going to read all the other posts. I just gave my opinion to the other person so spare me the lecture.

You clearly stated that for towing anything above 750kg someone would need EB license.

This fact is not true, so I responded that no one will be mislead.

Del2005

Please Kill Me wrote: »

But does it matter if the trailer is single axle or twin axle? EG. I have a twin axle 8ft x 4ft builders trailer (I use it for transporting the motorbike to/from trackdays etc.) and I was only told yesterday that because it's a twin axle, I'm not legally allowed to pull it unless I have a 4x4 (which I don't) Any truth in this?

While the double axle is BS the plated weight of the trailer may bring you above the B towing limit. The combination can't exceed 3,500kg, or is it 4,250kg, and the trailers DGVW can't be more than the DGVW of the tow vehilce. Then you need to consider is your car rated to tow the DGVW of the trailer

If your towing a trailer with a DGVW of 1500kg in a 1200kg car or if your driving a 2000kg car with a 1500kg trailer and the car is only rated for a 1250kg trailer you aren't legal. It doesn't mater if the trailer is empty or full.

Markcheese

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Agreed. I never pass 100kph, laden or unladen!!

Speed limit when pulling a trailer is 80 kph .... If it's a heavy yoke with no brakes no suspension 80 kph.. A well balanced braked trailer with suspension also 80. ( as I found out driving cork to Dublin ..

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

While the double axle is BS the plated weight of the trailer may bring you above the B towing limit. The combination can't exceed 3,500kg, or is it 4,250kg,

Its 3500kg limit for dgvw combination (car dgvw + trailer dgvw), with the only exception of trailer of dgvw up to 750kg, in which case the combination might be 4250kg.
So in short if you have 750kg trailer you can tow it with anything that can be driven in B category (f.e. 3500kg dgvw transit), but if you want to tow a heavier trailer than 750kg dgvw, then you must make sure that combination of car dgvw + trailer dgvw doesnt exceed 3500kg, and than trailer dgvw is not greater than car unladen weihgt. And obviously as you mentioned, that car is rated to tow such heavy trailer.

and the trailers DGVW can't be more than the DGVW of the tow vehilce. Then you need to consider is your car rated to tow the DGVW of

I think you meant: trailer dgvw cant be more than unladen weight of the tow vehicle.

Also worth mentioning is, that if someone holds EB licence, then those weight limitations dont apply, but he still cant exceed car rated towing weight, so he cant tow a trailer heavier than car manufacturer designed - which for average compact size car would be about 1000-1200kg. However in this case its not dgvw which appilies but actual trailer weight with load.

embracingLife

It'd be helpful if you give a link to the relevant legislation which explains this?

No,I'm not going to trawl through this site or other sites to find it, thanks.

CiniO

embracingLife wrote: »

It'd be helpful if you give a link to the relevant legislation which explains this?

No,I'm not going to trawl through this site or other sites to find it, thanks.

As I said - this was discussed and links were provided here at least few times over last year in separate threads. If someone is really insterested, it shouldn't be any problem to find it... I explained how it works.


EDIT:


But hey - it took me 30 seconds to find f.e. this thread.

Or here you've got legislation:

5. Vehicles shall be divided, for the purposes of Part III of the Act into the categories set out in column 1 of the following Table and the vehicles of a category shall, subject to article 6 of these Regulations, be those set out in column 2 of the said Table opposite the mention in column 1 of that category.
(...)

B

Vehicles (other than motorcycles, mopeds, work vehicles or land tractors) having a design gross vehicle weight not exceeding 3,500 kg., and having passenger accommodation for not more than 8 persons.


(...)


6. (1) A combination of vehicles which consists of a drawing vehicle and a trailer shall, for the purpose of these regulations, be regarded as a vehicle:—


(a) in category B where the drawing vehicle is in category B and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the total design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed 3,500 kg,


(b) in category B, C1, C, D1 or D where the drawing vehicle is in category B, C1, C, D1 or D, respectively, and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg,

This should explain everything.

Silvera

Also worth noting is that anybody who obtains an EB learner permit after 19-1-13 will be restricted to towing a trailer with a DGVW of 3500kg. (Currently, holders of EB licences are only restricted by the towing vehicle's max towing weight).

19-1-13 is the introuction date of the new 'credit car-style' licences.

CiniO

Silvera wrote: »

Also worth noting is that anybody who obtains an EB learner permit after 19-1-13 will be restricted to towing a trailer with a DGVW of 3500kg. (Currently, holders of EB licences are only restricted by the towing vehicle's max towing weight).

19-1-13 is the introuction date of the new 'credit car-style' licences.

Is there actually any vehicle with DGVW of 3500kg (in other words vehicle which can be driven on B licence) which is rated to tow trailers heavier than 3500kg?

guil

CiniO wrote: »

Is there actually any vehicle with DGVW of 3500kg (in other words vehicle which can be driven on B licence) which is rated to tow trailers heavier than 3500kg?

I'd imagine some landcruisers would be near it

TrailerBob

Max towing rating of European Market 4x4s is 3500kg.. Including Landcruiser Amazon and Land Rover 110.. Probably the biggest 2 out there. Some US built machines may be different. Generally the towing capacity is similar to the max gvw of the vehicle.

Yawlboy

ok then passed my Theory Test yesterday, Got my provisional this morning, went to book my test...... My license doesn't exist..... according to the RSA the database only gets updated every other Thursday so "check on Friday or Friday week"

Asked if I could do my EB test in an automatic (Landcruiser) even though I have a manual B license. Answer was no unless I would be ok with being restricted to towing with an Auto.

Finally from reviewing the data online, even though I passed my B license in 1993 I think I will have to wait for 6 months before I can apply for my EB test!!!

FFS this is a joke, what if I needed the license for work

CiniO

Yawlboy wrote: »

ok then passed my Theory Test yesterday, Got my provisional this morning, went to book my test...... My license doesn't exist..... according to the RSA the database only gets updated every other Thursday so "check on Friday or Friday week"

Asked if I could do my EB test in an automatic (Landcruiser) even though I have a manual B license. Answer was no unless I would be ok with being restricted to towing with an Auto.

Finally from reviewing the data online, even though I passed my B license in 1993 I think I will have to wait for 6 months before I can apply for my EB test!!!

FFS this is a joke, what if I needed the license for work

How did you manage to get your driving permit in one day?
I was waiting for mine about 8 weeks.

One thing however which should cheer you up - you won't need to wait 6 months before you can apply for EB test. Probably once it's in their system you can book it straight away.

I agree though it's a joke if you need licence for work.

Yawlboy

I went to the local motor tax office and got my provisional license there and then.

not sure why you think I won't have to wait 6 months - my license has 991 on it and was issued today ;-(

http://rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Safe-Driving1/6-Month-Rule/

CiniO

Yawlboy wrote: »

I went to the local motor tax office and got my provisional license there and then.

Amazing.
In Mayo in takes 10 weeks for them to issue your licence.

not sure why you think I won't have to wait 6 months - my license has 991 on it and was issued today ;-(

All right. Code 991 means "First learner permit in category".
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0483.html

That doesn't mean you can't apply for test straight away.

http://rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Safe-Driving1/6-Month-Rule/

That still confirms those regulation don't apply to you.

It applies to first-time learner permit holders for:

• cars
• motorcycles
• works vehicles (eg, tractors, JCBs)

You are not any of them. You are first time learner permit holder for category "EB" - cars + trailers.

That actually was the case (EB learner permit holders had to wait 6 months) but it was amended at the beginning of this year. If you are still unsure take a look at this
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0003.html

I, LEO VARADKAR, Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 42 (3)(n) (inserted by section 10 of the Road Traffic Act 2006 (No. 23 of 2006)) of the Road Traffic Act 1961 (No. 24 of 1961) and the National Roads and Road Traffic (Transfer of Departmental Administration and Ministerial Functions) Order 2002 ( S.I. No. 298 of 2002 ) (as adapted by the Transport (Alteration of Name of Department and Title of Minister) Order 2011 ( S.I. No. 141 of 2011 )), hereby make the following regulations:


1. These Regulations may be cited as the Road Traffic (Licensing of Learner Drivers) (Certificates of Competency) (Amendment) Regulations 2012.


2. The Road Traffic (Licensing of Learner Drivers) (Certificates of Competency) Regulations 2011 ( S.I. No. 725 of 2007 ) are amended in Regulation 2 by substituting “A, A1, M, W or B” for “A, A1, M, W, B or EB”.





GIVEN under my Official Seal,


10 January 2012.


LEO VARADKAR,


Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport.

EXPLANATORY NOTE

(This note is not part of the Instrument and does not purport to be a legal interpretation.)


The purpose of these Regulations is remove from learner drivers in category EB (car with trailer) the requirement to wait six months before taking a driving test in that category.'

Hope this helps.

Yawlboy

Thank you that is great news

Silvera

CiniO wrote: »

Is there actually any vehicle with DGVW of 3500kg (in other words vehicle which can be driven on B licence) which is rated to tow trailers heavier than 3500kg?

A Range Rover Sport HSE (2006/2007) has a towing capacity of 3501!

This is a useful link for looking up vehicles weights, towing weights, etc...

Just click on the manufacturer's badge to get a full list of their vehicles..

http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp?make=Land%20Rover