irish aid to uganda stopped

periodictable

So finally someone bites the bullet, drops the pc nonsense and asks where's our money, €4 million of which has apparently gone into the Ugandan prime ministers personal bank account.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1025/irish-aid-payments-stopped-after-4m-goes-missing.html

So is it time to stop foreign cash aid and send them vouchers or dry goods ? After years of funding depsots like Mugabe, Museveni et al, perhaps so.

CorkBabe33

periodictable wrote: »

So finally someone bites the bullet, drops the pc nonsense and asks where's our money, €4 million of which has apparently gone into the Ugandan prime ministers personal bank account.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1025/irish-aid-payments-stopped-after-4m-goes-missing.html

So is it time to stop foreign cash aid and send them vouchers or dry goods ? After years of funding depsots like Mugabe, Museveni et al, perhaps so.

I think its time Ireland cut back on the overseas aid completely. At least for a few years. Charity begins at home. The €4m the Ugandan PM is sitting on could have done a lot for families who are genuinely in dire situations here in our own country.

walshb

A racket. This in no way suprises me. I am just happy to see that we aren't the only mugs in this fcrce. Norway and Denmark got bitten too. I see the NGOs didn't get thier aid stopped.

Jimoslimos

CorkBabe33 wrote: »

I think its time Ireland cut back on the overseas aid completely. At least for a few years. Charity begins at home. The €4m the Ugandan PM is sitting on could have done a lot for families who are genuinely in dire situations here in our own country.

I don't think it's wrong to question where foreign aid ends up but I hate that statement (Charity begins at home) with a passion.

Funding projects that have a positive impact on your own local community isn't charity - it's common sense and self interest. Not a bad thing to do but has no place in a discussion about foreign aid.

walshb

But it should begin at home. When you hear that the HSE has been breaking the law and denying Irish citizens much needed care (mobility allowance), and then you read of the millions being shipped out of the country, well, it's gonna' hurt. This revelation is just what they have discovered.

Maudi

walshb wrote: »

But it should begin at home. When you hear that the HSE has been breaking the law and denying Irish citizens much needed care (mobility allowance), and then you read of the millions being shipped out of the country, well, it's gonna' hurt. This revelation is just what they have discovered.

stop all foreign aid immediately!!over the years we must have sent billions..wasted billions we could do with now...

walshb

Maudi wrote: »

stop all foreign aid immediately!!over the years we must have sent billions..wasted billions we could do with now...

It is not going to happen. It's far too much big business now for that to happen. It's a culture/tradition. Global! We are not the only country at it.

I do not think a complete cut is the answer. But, when we ourselves are heavily in debt and receiving EU interest loans, then we need to really evaluate and think hard about the level of aid we ship. The problem is that folks are afraid to say it, to suggest it. It's a no go area for many.

dodohert

As previous posted stated this only only what we know about. what about aid to other corrupt African governments...all the while Irish families are struggling to make ends meet.
Stop direct aid to ALL these corrupt governments. Only reason we found out was of an internal investigation in Uganda ????
I blame our own gobsh1tes leaders for not managing/monitoring how this aid money was spent. ..well no more, we've been had & taken for a ride again.

I'm mad as hell.

SeanW

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

howiya

Eamon Gilmore on the Six One news last night - "We will not tolerate any disapprobation or any misuse of Irish taxpayers’ money"...

Irish taxpayers money is being misused on a daily basis by him and his government. Laughable

walshb

howiya wrote: »

Eamon Gilmore on the Six One news last night - "We will not tolerate any disapprobation or any misuse of Irish taxpayers’ money"...

Irish taxpayers money is being misused on a daily basis by him and his government. Laughable

Yes, it is being misused. Both here, and over there. You couldn't make it up. The big white chief! That's the attitude and egos we're dealing with when westerners head to Africa to sort out all their problems. We've seen Eamon and Cowen and others before them over in Africa. Like ducks out of water. Bono and Geldof and GOAL and countless other names and charities all getting in on the act! Africa is awash with them!

passarellaie

The truth is we are spending 700 million euro per year on this when we have hungry children here and 40000 a year emigrating.Just another example of our utterly corrupt and incapable leaders

DEFTLEFTHAND

Why is a bankrupt rock in the North Atlantic giving out aid money to Africa anyway?

old_aussie

Maybe time to start sending money to support Nigeria

AlekSmart

periodictable wrote: »

So finally someone bites the bullet, drops the pc nonsense and asks where's our money, €4 million of which has apparently gone into the Ugandan prime ministers personal bank account.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1025/irish-aid-payments-stopped-after-4m-goes-missing.html

So is it time to stop foreign cash aid and send them vouchers or dry goods ? After years of funding depsots like Mugabe, Museveni et al, perhaps so.

It may stick in some folks throats,but on this occasion Mr Myers was spot-on......one wonders if Eamon Gilmore's handlers bothered to tell him about Kev's articles.....;)

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-why-do-we-send-money-to-nations-that-can-spend-millions-on-arms-3250278.html

One can only boggle ones eyes at the level of trousering being revealed in Uganda....where next ? :eek:

gbee

CorkBabe33 wrote: »

Charity begins at home. .

Absolutely, bravo. Many have been saying that for decades already. We have been far too generous in the past and have even borrowed monies to give away.

It's long been known that the majority of foreign aid does not get to where it should go, small projects, like a group of students building a well during their summer hols or giving live cattle in person to village elders often have a local direct impact better than a new AK47 and a thousand rounds that 13 year old boys are often seen with.

One of the problems with direct aid is the support structure, I was reading an account online from Logos Hope where they rebuilt a generator that had been installed by a UNICEF project twenty years ago but was in disuse for ten of those years as parts worn out and the geni stopped.

Little projects like those are likely to have a better impact than giving 'huge bunches of bananas to monkeys' [large sums of cash to governments].

VALIS

Charity begins at home? As it stands Ireland's problems are utterly incomparable to the widespread poverty in Irish Aid's programme countries. I'm surprised the general view in this thread is so skewed against it considering a relatively recent poll found most Irish in favour of it.

Irish funds are providing essential support to a variety of important projects in areas such as HIV/AIDS, agriculture and education that can help to improve nutrition and extend lives--pulling the plug could deal a significant blow to those projects. In Ireland it is important that we provide for our poor too, and I oppose welfare cuts, but many of our disadvantaged are being supported by welfare and domestic charities (though obviously people do fall through the net and we need to continue work on improving outreach and support at home too). So long as it is possible to secure funding for both ourselves and others, we should continue doing so.

I do have concerns about direct budget support of programme countries; but there are also many locally driven initiatives and NGOs being funded that understand local problems which can probably utilise aid better than governments and with a lesser risk of misappropriation.

Corruption is a problem, but perhaps it is better to work out alternative, more transparent approaches to aid or reorient more funding to local civil society organisations and NGOs than to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If anyone has not read it, the White Paper outlines our development strategy and is an interesting read.

howiya

VALIS wrote: »

Charity begins at home? As it stands Ireland's problems are utterly incomparable to the widespread poverty in Irish Aid's programme countries.

I agree entirely but that doesn't mean we have the money to help those countries. Essentially we are borrowing money to give to charity. Take a step back and think about how stupid that is.

Traditionally Ireland has been very generous in its support of these less well off countries. If we had a budget surplus I would be in favour donating large parts of this rather than increasing current expenditure to the point where if the economy slumps we are left with an unmanageable deficit.

VALIS wrote: »

Corruption is a problem, but perhaps it is better to work out alternative, more transparent approaches to aid or reorient more funding to local civil society organisations and NGOs than to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Are the NGOs any better? How much is John O'Shea earning at Goal? Even though he has stepped down as CEO there were reports at the time that he was going to take a newly created ambassadorial role...

How much do these clipboard wielding chuggers in Dublin City Centre earn an hour? If I donate €10 a month how many months does my direct debit have to be presented in order to pay the chugger's wages for that day he/she accosted me in town. That's presuming I'd be stupid enough to give my bank details out on the street, which I wouldn't be.

VALIS

Yes, we are borrowing money, so are many other countries with generous aid budgets (the US has a large budget deficit hasn't it?). The recession shattered a lot of economies but they continue to make provisions for development assistance. The money is borrowed but we are in a position to secure that credit whilst developing economies are not--we should continue earmarking that money so long as we have access to it. From a selfish perspective we might consider it investing in the future. By supporting programme countries now we might have invaluable trading partners in the future.


According to this article no member of GOAL earns in excess of 100,000. That certainly is a lot of money but it is the cost of employing a professional to carry out a professional job and would still be lower than CEO ceilings in private industry. Personally I think the ceiling should be lower, unless he and employees vouch their own expenses. People make a career as professionals in the sector of development and should be at least fairly remunerated.

I'll admit to finding ''chuggers'' extremely annoying and offputting but a successful street fundraiser presumably earns his pay. They wouldn't be utilised to the extent they are if they weren't effective. And they collect private money, it is an individual's choice to provide their details.

Salaries of local NGOs in developing countries will vary, the bottom rate will be in tune with the local economy and an honest CEO or department heads will be earning in tune with the economy.

As for money going to ''warlords and mafia'' as kupus suggested, I think you are blowing that out of proportion. In the past few years development aid has yielded many boons, more children and particularly girls are enrolling in school, polio rates have dropped dramatically, more people are living longer with HIV/AIDS, the list goes on. If development assistance was simply falling into a blackhole these results wouldn't be visible.

howiya

VALIS wrote: »

Yes, we are borrowing money, so are many other countries with generous aid budgets (the US has a large budget deficit hasn't it?).

Slight difference between Ireland and the US... The US has a triple A rating while we have the IMF in town

VALIS

I never denied the incidence of corruption, but your language was somewhat hyperbolic. It is a problem and it needs to be addressed. But when faced with an issue like that you have two obvious options, reform or discontinue. We should be fighting for more transparency and accountability not simply giving up when, as I outlined, aid has been put to very good use and can literally be a matter of life and death. The White Paper is currently under review so our strategy on ODA may yet change to reflect the problems of corruption and how best to combat it.

And yes howiya, the IMF are in town. Our development budget is being cut incrementally every year, it hasn't been immune from cuts either. There are some important projects relying on what remains of that budget, and a lot of people will be a lot worse off if ODA is suspended entirely. I have little doubt that the 630 mill earmarked for ODA is put to better use across 9 programme countries than if it was carved up and absorbed into other departments at home.

howiya

VALIS wrote: »

I have little doubt that the 630 mill earmarked for ODA is put to better use across 9 programme countries than if it was carved up and absorbed into other departments at home.

I'm not suggesting that the money be reallocated to other departments. The IMF are expecting the governemnt to make savings of €2.25 billion in next year's budget. Halting ODA would generate a quarter of this in an instant. What would you cut instead?

VALIS

Not coughing up to unsecured bondholders would have been a good start to making savings in general. Raising taxes on Ireland's highest earners (but not so much as to encourage any kind of dire capital flight) could raise substantial funds. Spending on a modest stimulus for SMEs (particularly IT based business) might hurt in the short term but would be invaluable in the long term. Reforming government pensions and expenses could release some funds albeit not a massive amount in the greater scheme of things.

The aid budget isn't dead-weight either if you view it as investing in emerging markets--as they improve they will be positioned to buy more Irish products (Guinness, for example, exports in massive amounts to some African countries albeit not to our programme countries--yet--as far as I know). And it improves our image internationally, which is important.

VALIS

Corruption how? By facilitating improvements in infrastructure and livelihoods there will extra demand for internationally produced products in Africa and greater access to the markets. With development, countries will be positioned better to import AND export. I never stated that aid would or should be conditional on trade, you just presumably assumed it. I was taking the position of aid being mutually beneficial, for those who selfishly see it as money wasted.

Irish Aid also provides more than food aid, which can but not always has adverse effects, with a focus on sustainable development and with a goal towards self-sufficiency, empowering farmers to grow hardier crops and with the help of irrigation projects.

I have personally worked in a programme country and seen the benefits of an irrigation project which was benefiting smallholder farmers, certainly not mafia and warlords.

I'm not claiming that the whole aid paradigm is perfect, but it needs reform, not abandonment.

markesmith

We're not literally borrowing to give to charity. You're not asking for an expansion of your credit card limit so you can give €1 to the homeless person.

celtictiger32

old_aussie wrote: »

Maybe time to start sending money to support Nigeria

em i think we support nigeria enough in this country...........


foreign aid should be stopped immediately, we are borrowing money with one hand and giving some of it away with the other. i stand to be corrected but wasnt there a figure reported last week as 1 in 10 cannot afford to put food on the table in ireland, yet we are sendind away in the region of 700 million per year. millions have been sent over to africa year after year yet it still hasnt changed anything, where does it stop?

VALIS

I would be being disingenuous if I denied that there is a dark side to development. But the dark side is a problem to be solved through greater transparency and accountability (perhaps through establishing development banks in programme countries for greater oversight of use of funds--just spitballing) and not an excuse for abandoning development. Good development policies have resulted in a lot of good, and poor policies have been destructive.

In my opinion, the debate should centre on making development assistance more effective rather than whether we should give any assistance at all.

walshb

VALIS wrote: »

I would be being disingenuous if I denied that there is a dark side to development. But the dark side is a problem to be solved through greater transparency and accountability (perhaps through establishing development banks in programme countries for greater oversight of use of funds--just spitballing) and not an excuse for abandoning development. Good development policies have resulted in a lot of good, and poor policies have been destructive.

In my opinion, the debate should centre on making development assistance more effective rather than whether we should give any assistance at all.

They have had years and years of handouts. When does transparency and accountability suddenly just happen? It was not us who discovered this scam, it was the Ugandans. They are telling us it's a racket and we're not listening!

Similar to the world power, India, telling the British that their aid money is peanuts, and that they don't need it. The British keep sending it. Madness!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9061844/India-tells-Britain-We-dont-want-your-aid.html

VALIS

I established my reservations to direct budget support which I find especially ethically murky or outright wrong in situations of highly militarised countries or in the instance of India (not an Irish Aid programme country anyway) a country with space and nuclear programmes! But the fact remains that there are millions within those countries who are in need of assistance who are not benefiting from economic growth and government expenditure.

There is an opportunity to bypass the governments for the most part and support local NGOs in locally driven and owned initiatives. Might these NGOs be corrupt? It's a possibility and that is why they should be thoroughly screened and evaluated (as well as the viability and successfulness of the projects) on an ongoing basis to minimise any possibility of harm.

Transparency and accountability don't happen over night, but we can start developing and building upon improved mechanisms to ensure that aid reaches those most in need of it.

walshb

VALIS, it is refreshing to hear a balanced and fair argument from the more pro aid side. Uusally their view is rammed down one's throat. "Oh, we have it handy. We're not as bad as those poor black people in Africa." That's the attitude that irks me.

kupus

^agree with the above, liberals usual rant rave and just try to shout you down so thanks yalis for the reasoned debate....but Im still correct in everything I said!!

and the reason I deleted my posts is that I try not to mix my boards life with my work life and this subject matter kinda crosses that territory in the examples I gave...hope you dont mind.

donegal_road

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why is a bankrupt rock in the North Atlantic giving out aid money to Africa anyway?

I posted this on another thread without realising that this thread existed:

the Uganda story got lost in the whirlpool of other scandals that were appearing in the media a couple of years ago, so this story didn't get much attention.

Some members of the previous government and god knows who else in the Dail, owned shares in an Irish owned oil exploration company called Tullow.

The Irish government announced that they were awarding €166 million in aid money to Uganda, over a 5 year period.

Within days of this announcement, Tullow Oil gets a Ugandan Government Minister's signature on an exploration deal they had been chasing for months.


The whole story is here







.

djpbarry

CorkBabe33 wrote: »

The €4m the Ugandan PM is sitting on could have done a lot for families who are genuinely in dire situations here in our own country.

It probably could have done far more for families who are genuinely in dire situations in other developing countries.

walshb wrote: »

But it should begin at home.

Ireland doesn’t spend enough on welfare already?

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why is a bankrupt rock in the North Atlantic giving out aid money to Africa anyway?

Because the average person on that rock still enjoys a very high standard of living relative to the rest of the world.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i stand to be corrected but wasnt there a figure reported last week as 1 in 10 cannot afford to put food on the table in Ireland...

I’d love to see your source for that.

Arguing that overseas aid should be done away with completely because some has not been accounted for is like arguing for the abolition of welfare because some is lost to fraud.

AlekSmart

djpbarry wrote: »

It probably could have done far more for families who are genuinely in dire situations in other developing countries.
Ireland doesn’t spend enough on welfare already?
Because the average person on that rock still enjoys a very high standard of living relative to the rest of the world.
I’d love to see your source for that.

Arguing that overseas aid should be done away with completely because some has not been accounted for is like arguing for the abolition of welfare because some is lost to fraud.

I'm not sure that the general thrust of this arguement is about "doing away" with overseas aid completely.

However,it is usually the way these threads develop as "both sides" adopt equally intransigent positions.

My personal belief is that the current state of Ireland Teo,precludes it from allocating any direct foreign aid to developing countries.

That is not to say that if or when Ireland retains some form of fiscal security it cannot re-enter the Overseas Aid system.

I cannot subscribe to some vague notion of the social desirability of maintaining aid levels to highly unstable countries when so much of that aid appears to fulfill very little actual purpose.

To compare the suspension of Overseas Aid with our domestic Social Welfare system is somewhat cynical and plays only to the gallery.

There can be few Irish residents who are unaware of the unsustainability of our current DSP ethos,as it is,in many ways,a mirror-image microcosm of the successive years of "Overseas Aid",with significant and ever increasing spending coupled with equally significant lack of actual improvement or return for the monies spent.

There is a substantial and growing body of opinion,mainly composed of contributors to the system,who readily admit that our domestic Social Welfare support systems are equally unviable in their current state.

Equally,there is a growing realization that successive Irish Adminstrations have allowed our Social Welfare system to develop into a loosely monitored,barely controlled monster with nobody in control or responsible for it's wellbeing.

Some of the sceptics amongst us see Irish "Overseas Aid" as being directed down a very similar track indeed and it is perhaps worth noting that the whistle was blown this time by Ugandan sources.

It is a valid point to make as to how long it would have taken for our own internal systems to discover the misappropriation and what measures,if any would have been taken to deal with it.

This Ugandan Aid affair should be providing Ireland with sufficient cause to draw a line under it's "Overseas Aid" business.

I would suggest it's immediate suspension and the equally immediate re-allocation of all staff resources and unspent funding into the largely neglected areas of directly promoting Local Small Enterprise in Ireland itself.

It has to be recognized that only a functional domestic economy can,of itself,attain a position of being an Overseas-Aid provider.

To suggest otherwise is venturing into the world of Lewis Carroll,as if we need to venture any further there.....:(

djpbarry

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm not sure that the general thrust of this arguement is about "doing away" with overseas aid completely.

Granted, but it has been suggested on more than one occasion.

AlekSmart wrote: »

I cannot subscribe to some vague notion of the social desirability of maintaining aid levels to highly unstable countries when so much of that aid appears to fulfill very little actual purpose.

The key word in that sentence is “appears”.

AlekSmart wrote: »

To compare the suspension of Overseas Aid with our domestic Social Welfare system is somewhat cynical and plays only to the gallery.

It’s a perfectly valid comparison, particularly when one considers the numerous cries of “charity begins at home” that always appear in these threads. People seemingly apply different standards to charity at home and charity abroad.

AlekSmart wrote: »

There can be few Irish residents who are unaware of the unsustainability of our current DSP ethos,as it is...

I think we both know that there is at least a significant minority of the Irish population who refuse to entertain any notion of welfare cuts.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Some of the sceptics amongst us see Irish "Overseas Aid" as being directed down a very similar track indeed and it is perhaps worth noting that the whistle was blown this time by Ugandan sources.

But nobody has ever said that the overseas operation is perfectly watertight. I have never doubted for one second that there is/was room for improvement.

AlekSmart wrote: »

This Ugandan Aid affair should be providing Ireland with sufficient cause to draw a line under it's "Overseas Aid" business.

Again, that is like arguing that a single case of welfare fraud should be grounds to do away with the entire welfare system, which is obviously ridiculous.

AlekSmart wrote: »

It has to be recognized that only a functional domestic economy can,of itself,attain a position of being an Overseas-Aid provider.

How does one define a “functional domestic economy”?

CorkBabe33

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I don't think it's wrong to question where foreign aid ends up but I hate that statement (Charity begins at home) with a passion.

Funding projects that have a positive impact on your own local community isn't charity - it's common sense and self interest. Not a bad thing to do but has no place in a discussion about foreign aid.

Yes it does! €4million has been WASTED in overseas aid, with nobody even bothering to check where it is going..... The Government could have put that money to good use here at home.

kupus

What if I told you that the aid money is actually a way of keeping places destabilized, or does that belong in the Conspiracy forum!

donegal_road

kupus wrote: »

What if I told you that the aid money is actually a way of keeping places destabilized, or does that belong in the Conspiracy forum!

in what way?

walshb

donegal_road wrote: »

in what way?

Well, some would maybe think that it makes the recipient a constant begger. Always looking for the handout, always reliant on the money from foreign countries. That cannot be a healthy situation.

donegal_road

walshb wrote: »

Well, some would maybe think that it makes the recipient a constant begger. Always looking for the handout, always reliant on the money from foreign countries. That cannot be a healthy situation.

you mean just like Ireland

walshb

donegal_road wrote: »

you mean just like Ireland

Exactly. Although I am not sure we have ever received a cent from any African countries.

donegal_road

walshb wrote: »

Exactly. Although I am not sure we have ever received a cent from any African countries.

maybe not money, although Uganda did award Tullow that oil exploration contract

djpbarry

walshb wrote: »

Exactly. Although I am not sure we have ever received a cent from any African countries.

Are there no Africans living in Ireland paying taxes?

You seem to have a very specific issue with Africa? You're aware that there are countries outside Africa in receipt of foreign aid?

walshb

djpbarry wrote: »

Are there no Africans living in Ireland paying taxes?

You seem to have a very specific issue with Africa? You're aware that there are countries outside Africa in receipt of foreign aid?

I am aware. Vietnam is one such country.

carveone

donegal_road wrote: »

maybe not money, although Uganda did award Tullow that oil exploration contract

Indeed. Tullow's market cap has tripled since the low of 2009 to £12bn. That's an awful low of money flowing this direction.

walshb: There's a book written by Dambasa Moyo ("Dead Aid") on the issue you describe. Where constant aid beggars the recipiant. Actually, I don't think she's arguing for a cut in aid, more an change in direction to an increase in development and investment. Something Ireland's quite familiar with.

She's from Lusaka, Zambia actually so that might skew my opinion as I grew up there. It was quite a shock for me to arrive back in 1982 Dublin! ("Argggh! This sucks!"). That's off topic but my experience of Zambia was of a country that was poorer than Ireland but friendly and outgoing, and 28C and sunny. Massive potential...

kupus

djpbarry wrote: »

Are there no Africans living in Ireland paying taxes?
You seem to have a very specific issue with Africa? You're aware that there are countries outside Africa in receipt of foreign aid?

Maybe because the subject is Africa.... the clue IS in the title, and you're doing your side no favors by playing that card. Deflection is not a debate.

Well spotted Walsh, and as carveone has pointed out, there is books out there that can be enlightening, should you wish to read more..

heres another one, what if I told you that Bono and Geldof are not held in high esteem in Ethiopia as the media would have you believe... OK I know where the Conspiracy Forum is lol, time to get my tin hat.

djpbarry

kupus wrote: »

Maybe because the subject is Africa.... the clue IS in the title...

Uganda ≠ Africa

kupus wrote: »

...and you're doing your side no favors by playing that card.

What side would that be?

kupus wrote: »

...what if I told you that Bono and Geldof are not held in high esteem in Ethiopia...

Bono is universally hated the world over? The man’s a tool.

Mr.Micro

walshb wrote: »

Well, some would maybe think that it makes the recipient a constant begger. Always looking for the handout, always reliant on the money from foreign countries. That cannot be a healthy situation.

A bit like Ireland and the EU since about 1973, lol

walshb

djpbarry wrote: »

Uganda ≠ Africa
What side would that be?
Bono is universally hated the world over? The man’s a tool.

He is not at all hated the world over. Many many other ego trippers have been roped in by Bono's crusading and ego tripping. Him, Geldof, Robinson and Liz O'Donnell have been the major aid pushers for many years now. Insisting and insisting on aid aid aid and more aid aid aid. They're fantastic at flashing the cash. Most of it being ours.

djpbarry

walshb wrote: »

He is not at all hated the world over.

It was stated by another poster that Bono is not the most popular man in Ethiopia. Given that the average person on the street in this part of the world is well aware of the fact that Bono is a muppet, it comes as no surprise to me that Ethiopians have reached the same conclusion.

What this has to do with the discussion at hand is anyone’s guess. Are we supposed to conclude that foreign aid is bad because Bono is a knob?

kupus

Uganda ≠ Africa............
so by your thinking Germany ≠ Europe, Colombia ≠ South America, Canada ≠ North America, that will come as a surprise to the citizens of these countries.

The debate is about Uganda and aid and has included other countries from Africa, and petty little point scoring like that imo devalues your contribution.

What side would that be?
The side that likes to blindly give without questioning where's it going. The side who think that people are living a rosy life in Ireland.

Bono is universally hated the world over? The man’s a tool.
That your opinion and you're entitled to it, but a question you should ask yourself is why is he disliked in areas outside of Europe.

This is not science, there is no black or white, there is no chemical reaction that can be accounted for from the minute of conception to the second it is finished. There is grey and various shades of grey and once you have figured out one version of grey another comes along to take its place...This is Africa.

And with that I'm bowing out of this thread.