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Train and Rail Systems

  • #2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,161 Karsini


    While I initially gave my support for the Train and Rail Systems forum, some parts seem to have descended into bitching and trolling. I don't know why, from the outside it seems either that rail enthusiasts don't get on, or else there's a small number of people stirring up trouble, getting banned and then re-regging.

    The ITG thread is one example, and last night someone started posting about trespassing in a photo in the 201 thread, which was actually a painting.

    Irish Railway News had to block their site to new members due to similar trouble. Something probably needs to be done about this to be honest. I don't know if it's extra moderation or what, but I'd like to hope that those interested in railways can discuss it in a civil manner. Otherwise we might as well just close the thing.


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Comments

  • #2


    Karsini, as a new member of boards.ie, I'm inclined to agree with everything you say and although I was never able to register for IRN, it was present there too, although to a lesser extent.

    As with so many other things, it is a small minority that turn things sour.


  • #2


    Karsini wrote: »
    While I initially gave my support for the Train and Rail Systems forum, some parts seem to have descended into bitching and trolling. I don't know why, from the outside it seems either that rail enthusiasts don't get on, or else there's a small number of people stirring up trouble, getting banned and then re-regging.

    The ITG thread is one example, and last night someone started posting about trespassing in a photo in the 201 thread, which was actually a painting.

    Irish Railway News had to block their site to new members due to similar trouble. Something probably needs to be done about this to be honest. I don't know if it's extra moderation or what, but I'd like to hope that those interested in railways can discuss it in a civil manner. Otherwise we might as well just close the thing.
    Agree 100% with this. It is a carbon copy of the faeces that goes hand in hand with one or two mavericks that post here and elsewhere. from what I know, they've had more bans than most of us have had hot dinners.

    I wonder could post controlling be introduced in the forum so that newbies can only post say once per day until their bonafides are established, or a minimum number of posts are accrued. And if the pattern of IP addresses used by newbies is consistent with those of know offenders then action should be taken...?


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    Maybe it would wok better as a semi private forum i.e. everybody can view it but you need a certain number of posts / level of reputation before you can apply to post in there. It would cut down on banned users instantly re-registering and trolling. I think the motors sub forum “DIY Car Maintenance, Repair and Detailing” had something like that when it started up.

    EDIT: shamwari beat me to it.


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    As a newcomer myself, I have been taken aback by some of what I have read, and understand the concerns. However, I would suggest that, if there's a threshold set that must be reached before someone can contribute to discussions, there is a danger that newcomers will not bother, that the established pool stays the same size (or dwindles as people lose interest) and that the forum stagnates. Perhaps newcomers could be given bona fides by established members, and that could substitute for a threshold?


  • #2


    shamwari wrote: »
    Agree 100% with this. It is a carbon copy of the faeces that goes hand in hand with one or two mavericks that post here and elsewhere. from what I know, they've had more bans than most of us have had hot dinners.

    I wonder could post controlling be introduced in the forum so that newbies can only post say once per day until their bonafides are established, or a minimum number of posts are accrued. And if the pattern of IP addresses used by newbies is consistent with those of know offenders then action should be taken...?

    Define bonafides - those who make the TRS or C&T forums unbearable have a decent amount of posts already and some semblance of knowledge or interest.

    Weeding out newbies won't solve the problem. What you need is a cull of unsavoury/unproductive posters, but tbh I don't think anyone has the stomach to see that through.


  • #2


    shamwari mentions the tracking of IP addresses.

    I've run forums and blogs in the past and it was certainly possible for an admin to track the IP addresses of users. What I can't remember is if it is possible to block one, though I'd imagine that to be the case. If this could be done, it would clean the thread instantly and permanently as I would lay good money on the problem being caused by a single person who is responsible for 5 accounts (2 of which are now banned) that I am aware of.

    In the meantime, the other problem is other users 'biting' which is harder to eliminate. I know I certainly get very annoyed at trolling, especially as I and others here, by association, are the target of same. It takes a great deal of restraint not to answer back and I have made the mistake of making a reference once. I won't repeat this.


  • #2


    The main problem I think is that there's only one mod and obviously he can't be on line all the time and cleaning the mess before it gets out of hand. C&T and T&RS both need more mods to keep on top of things and to take quicker and stronger action against the trouble making posters and to allow and extra mod point of view in general, having only 1 is never a good thing.

    I'd also like to point of that this user: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=596322 is a member of the ITG and has the account setup purely to advertise, yet is not setup as a verified rep or paying for the privilege. Yes it's a specific interest to the forum but still breaches the rules. And since there's only one mod on the forum and he authorised it, it ain't going to be resolved over there.

    CIE and related topic have always been clearly argued by both side on the C&T forum and now T&RS but it's always been fair and constructive and respectful in general. Now however there is a clear element of petty sniping and specific trouble makers arguing to provoke a reaction to the detriment of the forum


  • #2


    A lot of valid points have been raised here, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Back 2/3 years ago there were so many locked rail enthusiast threads in C&T, one could be forgiven for thinking we had taken up a franchise for Yale, Chubb or Basta. That's why some of us pushed for the present sub-forum, and my present recall is that, in the year and a bit to-date, there has only been about 3 locked threads. In fact overall it is IMO a success, and perhaps because of this it has become fair game for the malcontents.

    What I would suggest is that the posters who have been around for a while just assist in nipping things in the bud, by reporting in suspected bogey posts and posters, and hopefully Victor will do the rest. However, if he wishes to go about it another way, then that must be seen as his right as Mod.


  • #2


    Not being that au fait with moderation cans and can'ts, if it's possible to block IP addresses as suggested perhaps this is the main solution. From I what I can see most posters in the forum these days seem to be well behaved, sure people may have disagreements but 99% of the problem posts seem to be down to one individual, a known **** stirrer in the Irish railway community, who refuses to play fair.

    I've heard quite a few decent people say they gave up on IRN because the moderation process became strict to the point of inhibiting new blood joining (and the ITG thread is an example of why things like this happen). However, on this forum most of it is down to one individual, if they could be blocked then perhaps that would be a better solution than raising the shields to the point that well meaning newbies may be put off.


  • #2


    I get the feeling that there may be more than one idiot a play here. I'm going to PM the mods later with my opinions and what I know


  • #2


    I'm not convinced that there is a massive problem with trolling on the Train and Rail Systems sub-forum. I think most of the trolling and abuse is down to one individual using multiple aliases. If we can find a way of identifying him by, for example, IP address, we might have a solution.


  • #2


    Hungerford wrote: »
    I'm not convinced that there is a massive problem with trolling on the Train and Rail Systems sub-forum. I think most of the trolling and abuse is down to one individual using multiple aliases. If we can find a way of identifying him by, for example, IP address, we might have a solution.
    I agree, sooner the better its done and get on with business of discussing Trains and Rail Systems.


  • #2


    Shamwari, as I mentioned before, I'd bet money on 5 accounts belonging to 1 person. 3 are now banned (interestingly, the most recent to be banned, was identified as such by one of the other aliases before 'banned' had even appeared on the profile). I suspect another will be banned shortly, given the language being used. On the remaining account, I am 99% certain this also belongs to the same user.

    All you need to do is compare style, grammar, punctuation and content. It doesn't need a detective to tie them all up.

    As Niles has said, if the IP address can be blocked, that will be the best thing for the rest of us who indulge in sensible discussion and the odd friendly argument.


  • #2


    I've seen it said on other Feedback threads that IP blocking isn't really practical.

    Often many users will use one IP address (e.g. an office or college), and a committed troll will spoof their IP while the innocent will be stuck with no access for no fault of their own.


  • #2


    AltAccount wrote: »
    Often many users will use one IP address (e.g. an office or college), and a committed troll will spoof their IP while the innocent will be stuck with no access for no fault of their own.

    Perhaps the only way is to adopt a zero tolerance approach to abusive postings. I have noticed that this particular troll seems to get quite personally abusive towards other users.


  • #2


    Hungerford wrote: »
    Perhaps the only way is to adopt a zero tolerance approach to abusive postings. I have noticed that this particular troll seems to get quite personally abusive towards other users.

    Is this not already in place across boards?


  • #2


    supporting the opinions here. Something needs doing before the Forum, generally a sucess, is ruined


  • #2


    Iolaire wrote: »
    shamwari mentions the tracking of IP addresses.

    I've run forums and blogs in the past and it was certainly possible for an admin to track the IP addresses of users. What I can't remember is if it is possible to block one, though I'd imagine that to be the case. If this could be done, it would clean the thread instantly and permanently as I would lay good money on the problem being caused by a single person who is responsible for 5 accounts (2 of which are now banned) that I am aware of.

    In the meantime, the other problem is other users 'biting' which is harder to eliminate. I know I certainly get very annoyed at trolling, especially as I and others here, by association, are the target of same. It takes a great deal of restraint not to answer back and I have made the mistake of making a reference once. I won't repeat this.

    hold on a second, you admitted you had at least one alt account

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81419657&postcount=182

    which is totally against the rules. maybe you are aware of your own activity here, maybe you have an ability to overlook it.

    Anyway,

    I am here to post in support of Victor, who I know for year in RL and here, and to give some advice as an ex boards mod. Frankly, Victor does trojan work in controlling, or trying to controll, the Railway end of
    C&T. Plenty of others have been driven out by the Railway Children in the past, and now it seems like the board has been swamped by a load of ex Irish Railway News orphans who have no idea of the posting rules and the way things are done on boards.

    However, they do seem to have done enough basic research when it suits them, to have a pop a Victor for allowing the ITG to have an account, without, you know, paying for it, or having it verified.

    Verified commercial accounts were intoduced, after a lot of admin/mod debate in the background, to prevent spamming of the site by shops/retail ect. The ITG is hardly in that situation. It is a clarification, so that we do not get swamped by people setting up an account claiming to speak for the ITG or some other group when they dont. It is a simple, practical, logical thing to do.

    Obviously this concept is beyond some, and they wish to be petty, bothersome, agrivating and annoying, and are having a pop at a moderater who is doing just that - moderating.

    In my humble opinion the train systems sub forum was created to keep you guys away from the ordinary puplic on the C&T forum because you create an image problem. Its not the first time that has happened, nor the first place. Now you have ignored the accepted Boards.ie rules for trying to resolve problems because there is only one mod, you say.

    You can always PM the CatMods, their names are there in the bottom of your screen. Thats what you are to do, its in the charter, its everywhere. Instead, having stunk out the train systems forum, you bring the stink in here to feedback. In a way I'm glad. Maybe Victor, like myself and many other long term regs on the C&T board are used to ye, and we have got a bit of Stockholm syndrome and have started to accept ye as exhibiting normal behavior. This thread will be read by people not familier to our little corner of boards and they will I hope act accordingly.


  • #2


    corktina wrote: »
    supporting the opinions here. Something needs doing before the Forum, generally a sucess, is ruined

    Reregistered for this.

    C&T and T&RS are dominated by regular posters with a consensus, and even innocent "what if" posts are abused out of it.

    One poster in particular was highly abusive to both me and my brother, who posted as Wote, a railway industry professional, who quit boards in disgust.

    Neither board are welcoming to newcomers. In its own way, with the regulars policing contrary points of view it has become as exclusive as IRN.

    Boards.ie must decide is C&T for its regulars or is it for everyone with different points of view about the future of Irish railways.


  • #2


    hold on a second, you admitted you had at least one alt account

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81419657&postcount=182

    which is totally against the rules. maybe you are aware of your own activity here, maybe you have an ability to overlook it.

    With due respect, take time to read through the entire thread. Personally, I admitted no such thing, though I fully understand why you may think that. I have a single account, this one. I have also declared my interests on the relevant thread, being an active member of the ITG and DCDR.

    The user 'Railway Worker' is one of the 5 which I refer to, being used by the main protagonist who was clearly upset at being called to task in my post. The response from Railway Worker was just a puerile way of having a go at me.

    If another account which uses some variation of my account name appears, then you can be certain that it is not me.

    Like yourself, I support Victor and thinks he moderates very well. I despair that there is a distinct lack of maturity among a small minority of the rail 'enthusiast' community which blights the various rail-related forums.


  • #2


    I'd also like to point of that this user: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=596322 is a member of the ITG and has the account setup purely to advertise, yet is not setup as a verified rep or paying for the privilege.

    There is a thread at the top of this forum for reporting spammers.
    I have site banned that account as it clearly breaches the rules of this site.

    Karsini
    Are you, (and everyone else for that matter) reporting the troublesome posts so the Mod can take action?


  • #2


    Iolaire wrote: »
    With due respect, take time to read through the entire thread. Personally, I admitted no such thing, though I fully understand why you may think that. I have a single account, this one. I have also declared my interests on the relevant thread, being an active member of the ITG and DCDR.

    The user 'Railway Worker' is one of the 5 which I refer to, being used by the main protagonist who was clearly upset at being called to task in my post. The response from Railway Worker was just a puerile way of having a go at me.

    If another account which uses some variation of my account name appears, then you can be certain that it is not me.

    Like yourself, I support Victor and thinks he moderates very well. I despair that there is a distinct lack of maturity among a small minority of the rail 'enthusiast' community which blights the various rail-related forums.

    Correct AFAICS, that post of 'railway worker's was a set up - easy to spot !!!


  • #2


    AltAccount wrote: »
    Define bonafides - those who make the TRS or C&T forums unbearable have a decent amount of posts already and some semblance of knowledge or interest.

    Weeding out newbies won't solve the problem. What you need is a cull of unsavoury/unproductive posters, but tbh I don't think anyone has the stomach to see that through.
    In more recent times, someone with a handful of posts coming on and making all kinds of comments, accusations and generally following a bent agenda is of highly questionable bona fides. That obviously goes without saying.

    I'm not sure though what you mean when you talk about "those who make the TRS or C&T forums unbearable have a decent amount of posts already and some semblance of knowledge or interest." Sure there are a few very head strong characters here with far more posts and knowledge than most, but if you're thick skinned and well able for them then they shouldn't be a problem. ;)

    There is a distinction between someone who argues strongly and perhaps bluntly, and those who's sole objective is to cause nothing but trouble and offence, and go totally out of their way to do that. It is the latter whom I have the far bigger issues with.


  • #2


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    There is a thread at the top of this forum for reporting spammers.
    I have site banned that account as it clearly breaches the rules of this site.

    Karsini
    Are you, (and everyone else for that matter) reporting the troublesome posts so the Mod can take action?

    I know of no-one in the ITG, but what appears to be a genuine representative of an enthusiast group banned for not following the right protocol?

    Bit of an inversion of priorities when it comes to C&T, I think. Reinforces what I believe to be a fundamental problem with Boards.ie.


  • #2


    I know of no-one in the ITG, but what appears to be a genuine representative of an enthusiast group banned for not following the right protocol?

    Bit of an inversion of priorities when it comes to C&T, I think. Reinforces what I believe to be a fundamental problem with Boards.ie.

    Not allowing spam and advertising is a problem now?


  • #2


    Reregistered for this.

    C&T and T&RS are dominated by regular posters with a consensus, and even innocent "what if" posts are abused out of it.

    One poster in particular was highly abusive to both me and my brother, who posted as Wote, a railway industry professional, who quit boards in disgust.

    Neither board are welcoming to newcomers. In its own way, with the regulars policing contrary points of view it has become as exclusive as IRN.

    Boards.ie must decide is C&T for its regulars or is it for everyone with different points of view about the future of Irish railways.

    i'd better respond,as you singled me out. Many users have strong opinions but more or less express them in a gentlemanly fashion.This is what a forum is for, if someone does't agree with me , I can live with that , they should be able to too.What would you have us dio? pretend we agree with people just to keep them happy? even if they have dodgy ideas about Rail Development ?


  • #2


    corktina wrote: »
    i'd better respond,as you singled me out. Many users have strong opinions but more or less express them in a gentlemanly fashion.This is what a forum is for, if someone does't agree with me , I can live with that , they should be able to too.What would you have us dio? pretend we agree with people just to keep them happy? even if they have dodgy ideas about Rail Development ?

    You were not the poster I was referring to.


  • #2


    There is stuff going on in the background.

    There are a few particular issues:
    * One person (or a small group) with quite a few accounts.
    * A few users who tend to pick on one user.
    * Some individuals who are a bit dogmatic / have gripes / chips on their shoulders.


  • #2


    It wasn't my intention to carry the "stink" into Feedback as was mentioned. What you're referring to sounded more like the DRP for individual forum bans rather than trying to work out how to improve a forum,if that's even possible. At the moment I'm considering whether to even remain a part of this forum (T&RS, not boards.ie in general). Anything that involves serious work for admins or mods (such as IP bans or access forums like for Soccer) probably won't be considered for such a small audience.


  • #2


    Victor wrote: »
    There is stuff going on in the background.

    There are a few particular issues:
    * One person (or a small group) with quite a few accounts.
    * A few users who tend to pick on one user.
    * Some individuals who are a bit dogmatic / have gripes / chips on their shoulders.

    It would appear that 'issues' are being brought in from the outside also, which is forming part of that background. eg trespass, societal disagreements. Add to that certain low count posters who wish to engage in personal slagging and insults.

    Contrast that with the civilised behaviour of the established posters here, some of whom inspired this sub-forum. T&RS has run practically trouble free since its inception. Too much has been put into T&RS to have it ruined by a few and there is a wealth of valuable and interesting material, both written and visual, by some really well informed posters.

    Time for the locks and the bans IMO, reasonably applied. We can assist by reporting in the offending posts or troll like threads.


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