Offered a Job Yay but.....

racso1975

So been unemployed since June and got offered a job yesterday. Feel over the moon after a few knock backs at previous interviews. However here is my dilemma.

1) Job pays 25k (all my previous jobs and equivelant jobs in this sector pay c40-55k)

2) Its just over a 200kms round trip per day so fuels cast will be 100-130 per week

3) Childcare will be approx 160 per week.

4) I am currently studying a level 8 qualification in Business management and it would be very unlikey i could continue this!!!

So after childcare and fuel expenses i'd be down about 30 euro on what i'd receive in social welfare payments that being 188 p/w and also out of my course.

I do however believe that if you have a job you can get one etc etc and do really really want to work however I also have to consider my family financially.

Any advice??

Dicky Pride

Not going to be a popular response but I don't think it's worth it OP

Yes, having a job and a sense of worth is important, but so is having a life. And this job will strip you of that with zero financial reward.

Staplor

If it was me I'd reject it, you will be down financially, away from child, ridiculous commute, have to give up college. I think, if you had the qualification then there's a point to considering the offer, but you are bettering yourself and seeing your kid too.

brennarr

You got to take the hit short term. Your social welfare payments will never increase but your salary will with time and experience

Ninjamog

For what it's worth I was in a similar position as yourself.

Job offering very low pay etc.

Had an interview and was offered the job start of summer, they were offering €24k ( very low I thought) and I declined the offer. Big mistake!

Got another opportunity just three weeks ago different company, offered €25k. I accepted the job.

Yes the wage is extremely low, but it seems to be bench mark at the moment.

The one thing I will say is I have been here three weeks tomorrow and it was the right choice. Yes I'm down money. But I'm happy. And in the right position to push myself back up the ladder.

So I say go for it.

Mrs OBumble

racso1975 wrote: »

...Childcare will be approx 160 per week.

... what i'd receive in social welfare payments that being 188 p/w and also out of my course.

If you have a dependent child, then your welfare payments will be more than 188 p/w, surely?

Either way, given that you're currently doing a course I'd stick with the course: would be silly go drop it for a low-quality job.

racso1975

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you have a dependent child, then your welfare payments will be more than 188 p/w, surely?

Either way, given that you're currently doing a course I'd stick with the course: would be silly go drop it for a low-quality job.

My wife also works and we are just over the threshold for additional payments

bootybouncer

Make your mind up already and consider people who probably went for the same job and are now reserve candidates

SiegHeilNosey

i definately wouldnt just reject it. if you are sure you cnt survive on that amount, go back to them with a figure that makes it financially viable. 28-30? i dont know.

Atleast that way, youll feel a bit better passing it up if they dont offer it.

racso1975

bootybouncer wrote: »

Make your mind up already and consider people who probably went for the same job and are now reserve candidates

I was only offered yesterday at 6pm and am meeting them on Tuesday at 11am to discuss it further!!! I am very cognizant of the fact that the company would want to hire somebody else should i say no.

phoenix999

The 200km round trip every day sounds crazy to begin with. No job is worth that. And your health will suffer as a result of it.

allibastor

racso1975 wrote: »

I was only offered yesterday at 6pm and am meeting them on Tuesday at 11am to discuss it further!!! I am very cognizant of the fact that the company would want to hire somebody else should i say no.

If i could add a point.



Go back to the company and say about your reservations of the costs etc. if they flat out say no, then in my opinion you are better off. Pay scales for a company should be moveable by a few grand, if not then they might not be able to pay you more at a later date. a job can come and go but your qualification stays with you forever, in other countries also.

road_high

OP I would go back to them and see what they can do in terms of salary. If all your previous positions have been 40k plus then you clearly add somethin g thye want in terms of experience etc.
Explain your position a little and see what they say.

username123

allibastor wrote: »

Go back to the company and say about your reservations of the costs etc. if they flat out say no, then in my opinion you are better off. Pay scales for a company should be moveable by a few grand, if not then they might not be able to pay you more at a later date. a job can come and go but your qualification stays with you forever, in other countries also.

+1

You basically need to say to them what you have said here. If they dont compromise, then walk away.

Unfortunately pay has dropped in a lot of industries, but 25k is practically minimum wage, you have to place value on yourself!

frag420

bootybouncer wrote: »

Make your mind up already and consider people who probably went for the same job and are now reserve candidates

Other people are not the op's priority nor responsibility!!

balkieb2002

Ninjamog wrote: »

Yes the wage is extremely low, but it seems to be bench mark at the moment.

username123 wrote: »

Unfortunately pay has dropped in a lot of industries, but 25k is practically minimum wage, you have to place value on yourself!

Depends what industry the OP is in as there are still industries/roles out there that offer good to very good wages. I work at basic IT Support and from the roles I have gone for or been offered, there is plenty money going around in IT.

A 25K role to me sounds like a graduate salary. The OP sounds like he has plenty of experience etc so his wage should reflect that and thats even before taking into consideration everything else (crazy travel, college etc).

racso1975

balkieb2002 wrote: »

Depends what industry the OP is in as there are still industries/roles out there that offer good to very good wages. I work at basic IT Support and from the roles I have gone for or been offered, there is plenty money going around in IT.

A 25K role to me sounds like a graduate salary. The OP sounds like he has plenty of experience etc so his wage should reflect that and thats even before taking into consideration everything else (crazy travel, college etc).

Approx 13 years managing equivalent projects and also have multiple qualifications relevant to sector and as said study more in the hopes of doing masters also

StillWaters

So you are on JSB? That is time limited, and dependent on your wife's salary you may get nothing when that runs out. Have you looked into whether you will be eligible for FIS?

Not taking it is a big gamble. Every month out of work, is a month making you more unemployable. It sounds like you have more than adequate experience and could be in a position to progress within the job.

Mr. Loverman

I also don't think you should take it. There are too many negatives.

Turtwig

First and foremost find out if there's anyway to finish that course you're doing part-time, or transfer it to another institution and do it online. There usually is.

Social Welfare isn't going to go up, if anything it will be reduced while the overall cost of living continues to rise, and the longer you remain unemployed the harder it will be to find any employment. The salary sounds like a major hit but you can climb back up the ladder again anyway. It's harsh but you can always keep looking out for a higher paid job while you're in the new company anyway. Bear in mind too that there is a subconscious bias to hire employed people over unemployed ones. You might just find that once you take this lower paid job the ones that you were previously qualified for will suddenly seem more accessible.

The 200km round trip to me alone, regardless of salary, would indicate that it's not worth it. I don't think your health is worth that amount of money. But that's just me. How feasible is it to change your location? Will there be any benefits or perks in your job that might negate the €30 loss you'll incur?
Also, would it be possible to carpool with someone else who works there?

Catmologen

They are taking you for a ride, stay on the dole and look for something better that pays a fair wage.

Zeek12

My circumstances are quite similar. Have also been unemployed for a few months now....Although I have'nt even got any offers yet!
I was getting a salary in the low 40k range over the last few years, but it's obvious I won't be going back into employment at anything near that. Salaries have certainly dropped significantly.

For me, the deal-breaker here would really be the commute, more than the pay. Not just the cost of it, but the travel time involved. That sounds like between two and three hours commuting every day of the week. It's bound to affect your quality of life and put you under a lot of extra stress and pressure:( I guess only you can really decide if that's going to be manageable.

If they have a strict pay structure, and won't offer you an improved salary, maybe there are other areas where they could "sweeten the deal", for example

- You could enquire about getting some kind of travel allowance, given the long commute involved.
- Would they consider giving you some kind of flexi-time option? (again, this might help with all the travelling, so that you could work hours that suit you best.
- Or if not flexi-time, would it be possible for you to work from home for part of the week? It would cut down on all that commuting.

Mrs OBumble

StillWaters wrote: »

Every month out of work, is a month making you more unemployable.

Usually I'd agree, but not in the OP's case, because he is studying.

fasttalkerchat

How are you doing a degree while on the dole? If there's a way to do it legally let me know!!

petersburg2002

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

How are you doing a degree while on the dole? If there's a way to do it legally let me know!!

Yes you can study full time and get your money into your bank account by applying for Back to Education Allowance. You can also study part-time and keep your money. Eligibility criteria apply though. Details available on:

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW70/Pages/ABacktoEducationAllowanceBTEA.aspx

smcgiff

Catmologen wrote: »

They are taking you for a ride, stay on the dole and look for something better that pays a fair wage.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggghhhhh!!! Ffs, how can you possibly say the company is taking him for a ride?

They've offered him a job? Does he have to take it? Is it their fault he lives so far away? Since when is 25k buttons?

smcgiff

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Usually I'd agree, but not in the OP's case, because he is studying.

What level 8 degree qual offer c40k job starts?

Catmologen

smcgiff wrote: »

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggghhhhh!!! Ffs, how can you possibly say the company is taking him for a ride?

They've offered him a job? Does he have to take it? Is it their fault he lives so far away?

The question was should he accept or not, in that context they are. If I offered you 50euro for a 100euro note would you accept it? Or would think I was trying to pull the wool over your eyes?

I hate when people devalue themselves just because there is a recession, i would stay on the dole until I got something that paid a fair wage. I've been there and done it.

smcgiff wrote: »

Since when is 25k buttons?

They are offering him half of what he is worth, its not complicated.

smcgiff

Catmologen wrote: »

They are offering him half of what he is worth, its not complicated.

He's currently earning zero - 25k is a lot more than zero. It's not that complicated.

monkeypants

username123 wrote: »

25k is practically minimum wage

Is minimum wage not less than €18k?

road_high

I know myself I was out of work for a bit after a contract ended a few years ago. Would have travelled anywhere just to be "working". Even pay was not a huge consideration on the list.
When I did get back into a secure well paid job, I found it far far easier to move onto something more suited to me soon after. The contacts and people I made while in that job were crucial. The old adage "if you have a job, you'll get another" certainly rang true.
And it gives you a better platform to neg on salary etc as well.
OP you need to look at the bigger picture is what I'm trying to say.
Take the job for 6 months/year and be looking for something nearer home/better paid then. You never know who you are going to meet in new job either that may bring oppurtunity your way.

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah but he's is not getting 0 smcgiff, he would be down 30e a week just by taking the job. As long as he can get continued welfare of course. However, he might find another job easier with this job.

monkeypants wrote: »

Is minimum wage not less than €18k?

Lower than 25 anyway, it's 8.65 an hour isn't it? 25k is 12e an hour

smcgiff

Tar,

I mentioned that in the context someone mentioned 25k was half of what the op was worth.

See mfitzy's last post for the reason the op shouldn't be so short sighted.

okiss

Having read the 1st post I don't think you should take this job due to the following:
Job pays 25k - with your experience they should be willing to give you a higher salary.
A 200kms round trip per day with fuel costs of €100-€130 a week.
You will spend several hours a day in your car before & after work.
You will have higher garage bills to keep your car on the road and will have to replace your car sooner. Also your family life will suffer doing this.

When you do the maths I think you would be down more money than you estimate and you will be giving up your degree course. Also due to the amount of time you will spend away from home your wife/family members/friends will have to pick up the slack in regards to childcare ie who brings the child to and from football ect.

I would use the following website http://www.taxcalc.eu/ and put in what €25K would give you a week or month. Then put in a higher salary to see what salary you would need from this job when you take the above into consideration. When you meet them on Tue I would tell them that due to your experience and your expenses you need to get a salary of x amount.
They may be willing to give you a higher salary. If they are unwilling to do this I would keep job hunting. If this job had a shorter commute it would not be as bad but having done the commute for a period of time I would not advise anyone to do it.
Good Luck.

smcgiff

Okiss,

Would you agree that the longer someone is unemployed/studying the harder it is to get a job - especially a mid 40s job?

A few years back, around when the brown stuff first hit the fan I left a very well paying job for professional/ethical reasons. I left without another job to go to - very silly decision on my part from a financial pov.

I took on some self-employed work (no choice), but when a 20k job came up I jumped at it, even though it was a fraction of what I was on previously. I was in it for a few months. I then got a job where I'm paid more now than I've ever been paid. There is zero chance I would have got the role I am in now if I applied from an unemployed position. I joined the company on a good salary, and since negotiated up to my best paid condition ever.

Op, Hopefully you'll see the long term benefit of getting into the company and proving you are worth more.

lukesmom

200km round trip!!! For half of what you should be earning. It's a no brainer. Don't take the job, never work for less than what you are worth. Nobody appreciates that recession or no receasion. Sick of that stupid word. Hang on and hopefully you will get something closer to home and closer to your salary expectations.

Turtwig

smcgiff wrote: »

Okiss,

Would you agree that the longer someone is unemployed/studying the harder it is to get a job - especially a mid 40s job?

A few years back, around when the brown stuff first hit the fan I left a very well paying job for professional/ethical reasons. I left without another job to go to - very silly decision on my part from a financial pov.

I took on some self-employed work (no choice), but when a 20k job came up I jumped at it, even though it was a fraction of what I was on previously. I was in it for a few months. I then got a job where I'm paid more now than I've ever been paid. There is zero chance I would have got the role I am in now if I applied from an unemployed position. I joined the company on a good salary, and since negotiated up to my best paid condition ever.

Op, Hopefully you'll see the long term benefit of getting into the company and proving you are worth more.

It's a common assumption to assume that because something worked for you it'll work for others. Your circumstances though could be completely different. Your field of work might be one filled with those opportunities. Or you might just have had plain auld lady luck on your side.

I firmly believe that you have to spend money to earn more. So dropping the thirty euro I'd have no objection to, the OP would find a way to cope around that. But the commute and potential impact that might have on his health make this "investment" or "gamble" look all that bit more shadier. Yes, there is potential for return and getting him back to his old status but there's also the potential for him being run into the ground and destroying his health and future potential in the process. That commute is simply a game breaker.

smcgiff

lukesmom wrote: »

. Hang on and hopefully you will get something closer to home and closer to your salary expectations.

Hopefully ? That's your advice?!? Easy for you to say, and is a 100k commute to work really that bad/unusual?

smcgiff

Jernal,

Mfitzy had a similar experience. We've yet to hear from someone who turned down a job in the current economic climate and was rewarded by waiting for the right job to come along.

And have we come so far as to consider a job 100km away as being damaging to health?

RainyDay

Check out if Family Income Supplement would help your financial situation

the_syco

smcgiff wrote: »

And have we come so far as to consider a job 100km away as being damaging to health?

Depends if the 100km is an hour on the motorway, or an hour 40 minutes on the "N" roads. I wouldn't say "damaging to health" but more "damaging to the wallet".

OP: which side of 40 are you?

super_furry

You seriously have to look at the quality of life you'd have under those working conditions. That commute alone would have a major impact.

johnb25

I sympathise with your predicament...
I have two-hour round trip daily. It is a lot of time out of your day, but you do adjust. Make the most of it...think, listen to music, can you get any study material on CD to listen to while driving?
I would ignore those telling you to hold out for what you are worth; I think it is bordering on reckless. Someone/something is worth what someone is willing to pay at the time. And as others have said, once you are in work your earnings can go up, your SW benefits won't.
There is nothing to stop you continuing to look for other work while doing this job, and I would suggest the time will pass a lot more quickly if you are in a job than sitting at home worrying about your situation. And it is also true that it is easier get a job if you have a job.
As regards trying to renegotiate your starting package tomorrow, that is a tricky one. I don't think you should refuse the job, even at the current offer. Given that, you can't really go in saying you want more, and when they refuse, saying OK, I'll take the job anyway.
I would ask if there is anything they can do to facilitate your study, and argue it would improve your value to the company. And then make the point that you have experience/qualifications or whatever made you worth 40k in the past, and look forward to proving that value to the company; take the current offer but put down a marker.
You will be in a better position to negotiate in 6 months time if you are still there.

petersburg2002

smcgiff wrote: »

Jernal,

Mfitzy had a similar experience. We've yet to hear from someone who turned down a job in the current economic climate and was rewarded by waiting for the right job to come along.

And have we come so far as to consider a job 100km away as being damaging to health?

Perhaps because research has proven a link between long work commutes and poorer health:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-05-23/long-commute-poor-health/55162620/1

smcgiff

petersburg2002 wrote: »

Perhaps because research has proven a link between long work commutes and poorer health:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-05-23/long-commute-poor-health/55162620/1

Fair enough.

Maybe he should wait for a 55k salary job a few miles up the road.

Also, I wonder if there are studies that show how stressful and unhealthy it is to be unemployed for over 4 months?

Turtwig

smcgiff wrote: »

Fair enough.

Maybe he should wait for a 55k salary job a few miles up the road.

Also, I wonder if there are studies that show how stressful and unhealthy it is to be unemployed for over 4 months?

Or a 25k one? Was it really necessary to drag out the ridiculous extreme?
On the contrary there are actually some studies that show it can be beneficial for health in the short term. Usually over the long term unemployment degrades an individual's persona and resolve. One of the most important things for an individuals health, stress wise, is that the the fear of money shortages is taken off the table. What's the point in taken up a job that doesn't reduce that stress but exacerbates it? The rewards for taking such a risk have to be worth it and with such a long commute required I can't see how taking the risk is worth it.

petersburg2002

smcgiff wrote: »

Fair enough.

Maybe he should wait for a 55k salary job a few miles up the road.

Also, I wonder if there are studies that show how stressful and unhealthy it is to be unemployed for over 4 months?

I'm sure there are. OP will have to weigh the pros and cons of both.

smcgiff

Jernal,

The Op mentioned their previous salary of 55k.

You seem to be discounting the OP's ability to leverage this potential role to get a more favourable position. You'll see from his op he's already had set backs in interviews.

To my mind it's a no brainer.

racso1975

Just to update and answer some questions.

Mileage mostly motorway but includes goodd bit of m50

I can do the course while on dole through springboard

i am under 40 but over 35 :-(

Met today and explained situation seems no movement on money and would have to get board to agree to staying at college. Have to Friday to make final decision. Really does not seem an option the more i consider it.

CramCycle

racso1975 wrote: »

Met today and explained situation seems no movement on money and would have to get board to agree to staying at college. Have to Friday to make final decision. Really does not seem an option the more i consider it.

Its worth mentioning your prior positions and the benefits you can bring to the company in terms of doing both the job asked and other niche work that someone looking for the 25k salary may not have the experience to accomplish. Your experience should stand too you.

It is on another note important to keep going with work if you can, even if it is a slight hit but this is a decent bang to your time and wallet. Like alot of others have said, some suffering now could pay off dividends later. From personal experience, companies I have dealt with will wait for 2 months for a suitable employee working off his notice than employee someone who has been unemployed for more than +6 months but we could be in totally different areas.

I'd recommend looking at asking them for travel expenses on top of your salary, to cover your petrol or at least subsidise it, maybe would cost you +5k a year but they could write it off as a business expense and only cost them a percentage of this (not sure of the top of my head).

lukesmom

smcgiff wrote: »

Hopefully ? That's your advice?!? Easy for you to say, and is a 100k commute to work really that bad/unusual?

Yes It's quite a distance everyday for a big drop in salary.