Why are religious people more likely to be against abortion?

Peregrinus

gbee wrote: »

I think your point transgresses this, to put it bluntly, if so, I'm committing murder if I squat a fly.

No. You're killing if you swat a fly (assuming it's a live fly, and your swatting technique is up to par).

You probably should read my posts more carefully before you respond to them. I haven't at any point mentioned murder. In fact, I haven't at any point said anything negative about abortion. I haven't expressed any pro-life views at all. (I am, as it happens, pro-choice.)

Your imputation to me of views which I have not expressed and which you have no good reason to think I hold underlines the point which I have made, which is that vehemence leading to irrationality is not confined to pro-lifers.

gbee

Peregrinus wrote: »

I haven't at any point mentioned murder.

No, to be fair I expunged that one ahead of you. Pro Life movements have attacked individuals, burnt laboratories and even murdered a doctor.

Dades

Hello!

We already have a rather large Abortion thread where things like "where does life begin?" can be hammered out (inconclusively, no doubt).

If we can't keep this one specifically to the general question of religiosity and an anti-abortion stance, then there is no reason to keep it open.

Deletions will follow if necessary. Thanking you.

Peregrinus

I bow, naturally, before the imperishable wisdom of your ineffably just ruling.

Still, I’d just point out that the question of when life begins is raised in the OP. And without wishing to reopen the question itself, it’s useful to reflect on the reason it turns up an all in a thread on religiosity and attitudes to abortion.

When I first saw the thread, I was puzzled. If Tim wants to know why religious people feel certain things, I wondered, is the logical thing not to ask the religious people? Why is he asking a bunch of atheists and agnostics? Do we ask right-wingers why communists believe what they do? Do we ask republicans why monarchists believe what they do? Hell, do we ask Christians why atheists and agnostics believe what they do?

But the reason for the slightly odd thread placement is apparent as soon as you read the OP. Tim reckons that the reasons religious people often give don’t actually stand up to much scrutiny, and it’s in this context that he makes certain claims about the impossibility of knowing when life begins – claims which, as you point out, have led us into a bit of a diversion.

Despite the fact that I’m not convinced by Tim’s reason for thinking what he does, I’m all for scepticism and not accepting everything people say at face value, so I think it’s perfectly legitimate to question whether the reasons people give for their feelings are, in fact, a full account of why they feel as they do.

Still, I kind of doubt the utility of asking the question on this board. For every reason which a believer might have for concealing or denying his motivation, the unbeliever has a reason for misunderstanding or mischaracterising it. It was foreseeable that, in asking the question her, what Tim would mainly get was a bunch of self-affirming and sarcastic observations from atheists and agnostics and, if we’re honest, that’s largely what he did get.

I do want to pick up on one point that Tim makes, though. He suggests that Christian views on the start of life “cannot be objectified”, and then he wonders why people feel so strongly about something that cannot be objectively demonstrated.

On reflection, this makes no sense. Most of the things any of us feel strongly about – national pride, the success of our favourite sports team, justice; secularism – are moral or emotional concepts and values, not scientific facts that can be objectively demonstrated. I may feel certain that the attraction due to gravity at sea level is 9.81 metres per second squared, but I don’t feel passionate about it; I have no emotional investment in the fact.

So you may as well ask why a pro-choice advocate feels passionate about his position, given that the moral values and assumptions behind a pro-choice position are just as undemonstrable as the moral values and assumptions behind a pro-life position.

magicbastarder

kinda hard to separate the point at which life begins from a debate about religosity and abortion attitudes, i'd have thought, cos that's the crux of the debate.

apart from that, an anti-abortion stance is a 'safe' one, in that it's easier to ascribe a moral argument to action than it is to inaction.
abort is direct action, but the effects of preventing it are indirect action. so it's more 'conservative' (with a small C) to resist abortion.
and it's easier to draw a line at conception than a more arbitrary one at say, 24 weeks.

Dades

magicbastarder wrote: »

kinda hard to separate the point at which life begins from a debate about religosity and abortion attitudes, i'd have thought, cos that's the crux of the debate.

It's hard not to address the concept of where people think life begins, but a lengthy debate about the answer to that question is not going to benefit the actual question in the OP.

eyescreamcone

Religious people are more likely to be anti abortion because they like to dictate how people live their lives.
Fukk your commandments and papal infallibility I say.
I can make up my own rules - for me.

You can go around not coveting your neighbours ass on the sabath all you like, just leave me out of your power trip games.
You're not the boss of me!
I'll do fine on my own.

jill_valentine

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I think this resistance is because the religious associate abortion with an irreligious lifestyle, with casual sex and basically things they spend their lifes not giving into.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that, according to research, atheists and religious types report having more or less the same basic sexual behaviours, atheists just enjoy it more. I could be wrong because I can't find any studies to that effect right now, but perhaps it rings a bell for somebody else?

old hippy

jill_valentine wrote: »

Actually, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that, according to research, atheists and religious types report having more or less the same basic sexual behaviours, atheists just enjoy it more. I could be wrong because I can't find any studies to that effect right now, but perhaps it rings a bell for somebody else?

I've had both atheist and religious folk ringing my bell

And many of either persuasion invoking a deity during the love fest...