Who is Ireland's future Tight Head?

goreyguy

Just wondering what everyone's opinion was?

[Jackass]

Tadgh Furlong. None of the above will ever be international level imo.

Podge_irl

Probably none of the above. Moore and Furlong are Leinster's long term options. I wouldn't be surprised to see White getting a cap when he's qualified but he's not exactly a spring chicken.

Fitzpatrick is the obvious next in line if he can stop getting injured.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Deccie Fitzpatrick would be a good stop-gap , but he can't get gametime ahead of the Kiwi Afoa and is a perma-crock. Behind that, there are no real options who have put their hand up for selection. Furlong looks a good prospect, but he is very young and is already being hyped to the nines following a good display for the U20's.

jamiedav2011

Yep none of the above for me too.

Moore and Furlong, if they're brought through correctly, could be it.

jamiedav2011

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Deccie Fitzpatrick would be a good stop-gap , but he can't get gametime ahead of the Kiwi Afoa and is a perma-crock. Behind that, there are no real options who have put their hand up for selection. Furlong looks a good prospect, but he is very young and is already being hyped to the nines following a good display for the U20's.

In fairness he was excellent throughout the tournament, and you could say the same about Hanrahan couldn't you?

Fireball07

As people have said, I don't know if any of them have a long-term future.

Archer doesn't look like he'll be good enough, not sure if Macklin will be either. Loughney has impressed me at times, but he's still inconsistent (I'd pick him as Ross' backup now). Hagan hasn't progressed at Leinster, but I wouldn't write him off completely.

Moore and Furlong are the main candidates for the future as of now.

Tox56

Furlong was up with Hanrahan and Henderson in terms of performances and potential from the U20 World Cup, one of them was shortlisted for young player of the year, the other is already in the Ireland squad. Leinster are taking the right approach to give him time in the AIL to learn his trade, no point throwing him in too soon, we'll see what he's made of when the time is right.

thomond2006

Archer


This post was paid for by Frankie Sheahan.

bilston

Yes Furlong was up there with JJ and Henderson for the U20s but I don't think you can compare 20 y.o. TH with a 20 y.o. back row/lock and especially a 20 y.o. centre/out half. I'd say Furlong will do well to be in the 2015 RWC squad, in saying that he'll probably still be kicking about come the 2027 WC where as JJ and Henderson won't be!

Ciaran-Irl

I reckon Michael Bent will prove to be a huge asset while we're waiting for the younger guys to come through. None of the above that you can vote for though.

jamiedav2011

bilston wrote: »

Yes Furlong was up there with JJ and Henderson for the U20s but I don't think you can compare 20 y.o. TH with a 20 y.o. back row/lock and especially a 20 y.o. centre/out half. I'd say Furlong will do well to be in the 2015 RWC squad, in saying that he'll probably still be kicking about come the 2027 WC where as JJ and Henderson won't be!

Definitely the career timings are completely different, but that's nothing to do with his performances and the fact that he killed a starting S15 LH. In that sense I think it's pretty easy to compare him, plus by all accounts he gave John Ryan a hard time in a recent AIL game.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Yes Furlong was up there with JJ and Henderson for the U20s but I don't think you can compare 20 y.o. TH with a 20 y.o. back row/lock and especially a 20 y.o. centre/out half. I'd say Furlong will do well to be in the 2015 RWC squad, in saying that he'll probably still be kicking about come the 2027 WC where as JJ and Henderson won't be!

Of course, I think it will be several years before we're even discussing the possibility of Furlong for Ireland, as you say he has time on his side, and Leinster are ensuring he isn't rushed. To force a Super 15 prop onto the bench is a really promising sign though, and parity with an English scrum at U20 level is almost unheard of for Ireland.

All he is right now is potential, but he has a lot of it.

wonton

what happened to stewart maguire?

haven't really been able to follow rugby as much the last while , but thought he went to conacht?

thomond2006

Is Clint Newland Irish qualified?

goreyguy

When was the last time a Province developed a legitimate tight head?? No faith in Leinster developing Furlong.

Tight Heads are almost better off leaving the country and getting the proper coaching in england.

Fireball07

wonton wrote: »

what happened to stewart maguire?

haven't really been able to follow rugby as much the last while , but thought he went to conacht?

Completely failed and was let go afaik.

Cpt_Blackbeard

goreyguy wrote: »

When was the last time a Province developed a legitimate tight head?? No faith in Leinster developing Furlong.

Tight Heads are almost better off leaving the country and getting the proper coaching in england.

John Hayes?

GerM

Declan Fitz? Simon Best? Emmet Byrne?

irishbucsfan

wonton wrote: »

what happened to stewart maguire?

haven't really been able to follow rugby as much the last while , but thought he went to conacht?

Signed for either Esher or Bedford. Can't remember which.

porterbelly

goreyguy wrote: »

When was the last time a Province developed a legitimate tight head?? No faith in Leinster developing Furlong.

Tight Heads are almost better off leaving the country and getting the proper coaching in england.

Jamie Hagan was coming along very well in Connacht but has gone downhill since joining Leinster.

Proof that the grass isn't always greener on the other side

jamiedav2011

porterbelly wrote: »

Jamie Hagan was coming along very well in Connacht but has gone downhill since joining Leinster.

Proof that the grass isn't always greener on the other side

Or proof that it's good to have ambition to see if you can improve your game.

Tox56

porterbelly wrote: »

Jamie Hagan was coming along very well in Connacht but has gone downhill since joining Leinster.

Proof that the grass isn't always greener on the other side

He hasn't gone down hill he has just stagnated, there is a difference.

RoundBox11

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Clint Newland Irish qualified?

Lol could you imagine? :P I think he's possibly the worst professional scrummager ive ever seen.
I remember once his back was completely curved upwards when he crouchedand when the ref called engage, he twisted at such an angle (this is before even coming into contact with the opposing LH) that his arse completely detached from the lock and he almost went in sideways between the two front rows. The best thing about him was his mullet :P

irishbucsfan

porterbelly wrote: »

Jamie Hagan was coming along very well in Connacht but has gone downhill since joining Leinster.

Proof that the grass isn't always greener on the other side

Considering the standard he was at when he arrived at Leinster (as well as others), I think it only proves that players can look a lot better our west than they would at a top side.

RoundBox11

porterbelly wrote: »

Jamie Hagan was coming along very well in Connacht but has gone downhill since joining Leinster.

Proof that the grass isn't always greener on the other side

If he was getting regular gametime like when he was in Connacht who knows where he'd be. The poor guy doesn't even get a chance to play in the AIL cos he's always on the bench for leinster. He'd really benefit from a move to munster when botha leaves or else a move to england!

RoundBox11

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Considering the standard he was at when he arrived at Leinster (as well as others), I think it only proves that players can look a lot better our west than they would at a top side.

I don't think thats the case for props tho. No matter who you play for your doing the exact same thing in the scrum. If anything i'd have thought playing for a bad team would make you look worse in the scrum because the rest of the front 5 aren't good enough to support you.

Swiwi

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Lol could you imagine? :P I think he's possibly the worst professional scrummager ive ever seen.
I remember once his back was completely curved upwards when he crouchedand when the ref called engage, he twisted at such an angle (this is before even coming into contact with the opposing LH) that his arse completely detached from the lock and he almost went in sideways between the two front rows. The best thing about him was his mullet :P

Yeah, he was a pretty average prop, alright. Struggled to make NZ S15 wider training squads, let alone run-on sides. Don't think he's the future for Ireland...would probably be the first Maori to play for Ireland though

For what it's worth, props are supposed to be at their best about late 20s/early 30s, so don't need to look too young.

roycon

once you play for leinster youre already good enough for ireland if youre a prop. furlong is looking very good at the moment but whos to know what will happen. henderson is already good enough to play for ireland. hanrahan is a good player but i dont know if he could be an outhalf. maybe as a centre hed be better

stephen archer is a bit too fat and weak to play international level realistically. not able to keep up with the pace of the game if your that fat. he needs to hit the weights in a bad way. hopefully penney can sort out the conditioning of the munster team and the academy

Fireball07

roycon wrote: »

once you play for leinster youre already good enough for ireland if youre a prop. furlong is looking very good at the moment but whos to know what will happen. henderson is already good enough to play for ireland. hanrahan is a good player but i dont know if he could be an outhalf. maybe as a centre hed be better

stephen archer is a bit too fat and weak to play international level realistically. not able to keep up with the pace of the game if your that fat. he needs to hit the weights in a bad way. hopefully penney can sort out the conditioning of the munster team and the academy

I don't think it's Archer's fitness that is the real problem, it's his scrummaging. He's actually reasonably okay in the loose.

Fitzpatrick's problem is his conditioning, his scrummaging is of a good enough standard.

Donald Coyle

roycon wrote: »

once you play for leinster youre already good enough for ireland if youre a prop. furlong is looking very good at the moment but whos to know what will happen. henderson is already good enough to play for ireland. hanrahan is a good player but i dont know if he could be an outhalf. maybe as a centre hed be better

stephen archer is a bit too fat and weak to play international level realistically. not able to keep up with the pace of the game if your that fat. he needs to hit the weights in a bad way. hopefully penney can sort out the conditioning of the munster team and the academy

This would put Hagan in the picture now and means Furlong is probably a couple of seasons away (only made one B&I Cup appearance for Leinster so far). In fairness, I don't think Hagan's ready either.

Fishooks12

roycon wrote: »

once you play for leinster youre already good enough for ireland if youre a prop. furlong is looking very good at the moment but whos to know what will happen. henderson is already good enough to play for ireland. hanrahan is a good player but i dont know if he could be an outhalf. maybe as a centre hed be better

stephen archer is a bit too fat and weak to play international level realistically. not able to keep up with the pace of the game if your that fat. he needs to hit the weights in a bad way. hopefully penney can sort out the conditioning of the munster team and the academy

?! Hagan, White......................

Tox56

Fishooks12 wrote: »

?! Hagan, White......................

White probably would be good enough if he was IQ

Fishooks12

Tox56 wrote: »

White probably would be good enough if he was IQ

Thought he's in line to be by the end of the season? Not sure if he is tbh but I haven't seen much of him lately

Podge_irl

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Thought he's in line to be by the end of the season? Not sure if he is tbh but I haven't seen much of him lately

He only came to Leinster at the start of the 2011/12 season. He won't be qualified til the start of the 2014 season, at which point he will be 33. If no one has stepped up by then he might be worth a few caps over the season (and he is handily the second best tighthead available at the moment).

f1dan

I don't know who is the long-term solution is but as long as Rodney Ah You is kept as far away from the discussion as possible I'll be happy.

Fishooks12

Fishooks12 wrote: »

?! Hagan, White......................

Considering that many suggested White start the HEC final ahead of Ross, I imagine he would have no problem starting for Ireland. White is a great player. Tough as nails and is a very comfortable scrummager.

Hagan is a strange one. I still think he can get there, I'm just not sure when or how. He's not making steps that I'd like him to do, no particularly stand out performances in the past 12/18 months either. Yet I still think he's a quality player, still learning and obviously has issues. It's frustratingly slow going for him and for us as Leinster and Ireland fans. He's been solid if unremarkable against most opposition, but has had a couple of fairly nightmare-ish performances too. I'm still holding out hope that he can become a pretty steady squad player for us though!

bamboozle

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Deccie Fitzpatrick would be a good stop-gap , but he can't get gametime ahead of the Kiwi Afoa and is a perma-crock. Behind that, there are no real options who have put their hand up for selection. Furlong looks a good prospect, but he is very young and is already being hyped to the nines following a good display for the U20's.

i think White will be if no-one else steps up in the meantime.

Moore & Furlong have the ability, disagree with the above where you say Furlong had a good display for the U20's, Furlong played two years running in the U20's world cup at age 18 & 19. He's played in the first two rounds of the AIL this season and has looked excellent and what stands to him already is he seems to be very good technically.

Moore is kind of coming in under the radar, if Furlong wasnt on the scene there would be a lot more talk about Moore.

10 years ago Leinster threw Niall Treston into senior action too early, he suffered a bad leg break and never really hit provincial heights again (though still an excellent player at Coventry & Clontarf) i'd expect Leinster to be far more prudent with Moore, Furlong, O'Connell, Tracey and allow them a bit more exposure at AIL level where they can learn the dark arts of the front row, maybe with a bit of B&I rugby also.

Foxtrol

bamboozle wrote: »

i think White will be if no-one else steps up in the meantime.

Moore & Furlong have the ability, disagree with the above where you say Furlong had a good display for the U20's, Furlong played two years running in the U20's world cup at age 18 & 19. He's played in the first two rounds of the AIL this season and has looked excellent and what stands to him already is he seems to be very good technically.

Moore is kind of coming in under the radar, if Furlong wasnt on the scene there would be a lot more talk about Moore.

AFAIK he is only a few weeks/a month away from being able to play for the under 20's again this year.

I think you're right on Moore as he was doing incredibly well for the U20's before his injury and Ireland were very lucky they had Furlong to fall back on.

pickarooney

Probably a naturalised Saffer.

roycon

james treacy is being tested as a hooker at the moment by leinster from what ive heard

jacothelad

goreyguy wrote: »

When was the last time a Province developed a legitimate tight head?? No faith in Leinster developing Furlong.

Tight Heads are almost better off leaving the country and getting the proper coaching in england.

Court was a pretty good and developing tight head up to the signing of BJB whence he moved to LH.
Simon Best was a good tight head but used almost exclusively at loose head by EOS except in lesser games when he was captain.
John Andress is a reasonable performer in the AP.

Deleted User wrote: »

Considering that many suggested White start the HEC final ahead of Ross, I imagine he would have no problem starting for Ireland. White is a great player. Tough as nails and is a very comfortable scrummager.

Hagan is a strange one. I still think he can get there, I'm just not sure when or how. He's not making steps that I'd like him to do, no particularly stand out performances in the past 12/18 months either. Yet I still think he's a quality player, still learning and obviously has issues. It's frustratingly slow going for him and for us as Leinster and Ireland fans. He's been solid if unremarkable against most opposition, but has had a couple of fairly nightmare-ish performances too. I'm still holding out hope that he can become a pretty steady squad player for us though!

Mushy II? this sounds like the claptrap revisionism surrounding Buckley for years. Hagan never seems to be any better. The same issues with every game. Perhaps he is too tall to be a prop. Everyone expects guys his size and Mushy's to be the next Carl Hayman. Ditto young Maguire. having said that, anyone willing to pack down in the front row at this level is a feckin' hero in my book.

irishbucsfan

roycon wrote: »

james treacy is being tested as a hooker at the moment by leinster from what ive heard

Yeah he is, has been used their as cover at B&I level. It's a great development because he's very strong around the park, it'd be great to see us able to harness that.

jacothelad

Hagan at 2 anyone? He's mobile and I'm sure would be able to throw the ball in.

[Jackass]

jacothelad wrote: »

Mushy II?

Sadly, it's starting to look that way. Homegrown player, big physical fella, everyone wants him to make it as a top class player, but he just doesn't have the technical skills.

It's harsh to say he'll never make it, but his progress has been far from good. He's been mauled in the scrums quite a bit and goes down quite often. If he can't hold the scrum up then he hasn't a hope of being a pummeling tight head.

At the moment it looks like at best he could develop into an adequet Heineken Cup standard 3, but even at that I'm yet to be convinced.

roycon

hagan is streets ahead of mushy to be fair. the main thing getting in his way is he just isnt as consistent as ross at the moment although hes better around the park.

stephen_n

goreyguy wrote: »

When was the last time a Province developed a legitimate tight head?? No faith in Leinster developing Furlong.

Tight Heads are almost better off leaving the country and getting the proper coaching in england.

Did a fairly good job with Healy!

.ak

stephen_n wrote: »

Did a fairly good job with Healy!

Did they? If they were developing him as a TH they went wrong somewhere...

Tox56

Yeah, the problem I have with Hagan is his size, it always seems to hinder him in the scrum (then again, I'm no expert).

That's one of the reasons I'm so excited about Martin Moore. He's still only young, but he seems to have the old fashioned prop build, only 5'11 but almost 20 stone. I haven't seen enough of him to see his technique, and it obviously remains to be seen how he'll handle himself against quality opposition, but he looks to have the physical attributes for it (similar height to Deccie Fitz).

Larbre34

Michael Bent is due to rock up at Leinster this week, ambidextrous prop with Irish passport in hand, will probably be starting for Leinster the entire time Ross is away. Considered a nominee for Taranaki player of the year in the ITM cup, hes 26 and he knows Feek. Expect to see him on the bench in Cardiff on 02/02/13, or, as he's match fit and up to speed, against Fiji.

I'm not convinced about Archer and Im very disappointed with Hagan, Moore is a lump and a half. One of the best things about B&I cup games is watching the front row prospects square up. I'd love to see Andress back at Ulster.

Winters

Tox56 wrote: »

That's one of the reasons I'm so excited about Martin Moore. He's still only young, but he seems to have the old fashioned prop build, only 5'11 but almost 20 stone. I haven't seen enough of him to see his technique, and it obviously remains to be seen how he'll handle himself against quality opposition, but he looks to have the physical attributes for it (similar height to Deccie Fitz).

I would say having the likes of Ross and Feek, both self professed scummage gurus, in Leinster is really helping the development of Moore and Furlong.

Even though he is a loosy, all this talk of what age props mature at really puts the rise of Cian Healy into perspective. Beast.