Selling Non-Saorview Approved Sets

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Can anybody tell me what my consumer rights are in respect to a well known electrical outlet who just sold me a non-saorview approved TV that won't tune in to Saorview?

If it wasn't so expensive it be funny, I just had a guy on the phone trying to speel that while it's not on the list of saorview approved sets, it has the device :mad:!

Nody

Did you ask for a TV that could show Saorview with out any additional hardware or did you assume it could do it?

TheChizler

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

Can anybody tell me what my consumer rights are in respect to a well known electrical outlet who just sold me a non-saorview approved TV that won't tune in to Saorview?

If it wasn't so expensive it be funny, I just had a guy on the phone trying to speel that while it's not on the list of saorview approved sets, it has the device :mad:!

Did they claim it was compatible?
Maybe post what model it is.

RangeR

But... Any TV's sold today that can't get Soarview, are "monitors" surely. As in they have no workable tuner. Mis-sold monitor as TV?

Cabaal

Really depends when they sold it to you I guess,

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

RangeR wrote: »

But... Any TV's sold today that can't get Soarview, are "monitors" surely. As in they have no workable tuner. Mis-sold monitor as TV?

No. It can be tuned to Cable or Sat/Sky so still a TV. Soatview is just on sysytem.

foggy_lad

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

Can anybody tell me what my consumer rights are in respect to a well known electrical outlet who just sold me a non-saorview approved TV that won't tune in to Saorview?

If it wasn't so expensive it be funny, I just had a guy on the phone trying to speel that while it's not on the list of saorview approved sets, it has the device :mad:!

What model tv is it? While it might not be saorview approved yet it might actually be capable of receiving all channels and the digital teletext. Was it currys or Argos?

TheChizler

RangeR wrote: »

But... Any TV's sold today that can't get Soarview, are "monitors" surely. As in they have no workable tuner. Mis-sold monitor as TV?

Tuner still works, it's a system that will display a PAL-I signal if broadcast. Just cause what RTE Networks pumps out is different doesn't mean the tuner doesn't work. It's like saying a camera bought in the US isn't a camera cause it won't plug directly into the national power supply here.

wmpdd3

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

Can anybody tell me what my consumer rights are in respect to a well known electrical outlet who just sold me a non-saorview approved TV that won't tune in to Saorview?

If it wasn't so expensive it be funny, I just had a guy on the phone trying to speel that while it's not on the list of saorview approved sets, it has the device :mad:!

So its mpeg2 but not Saorview approved?

Really you need the model number to check, are you going by the Saorview website?

RangeR

Declan Tiny Grin wrote: »

No. It can be tuned to Cable or Sat/Sky so still a TV. Soatview is just on sysytem.

You don't "tune" cable or sat to the TV. They have channels all to themselves. That's not using the tuner. So yes.

TheChizler wrote: »

Tuner still works, it's a system that will display a PAL-I signal if broadcast. Just cause what RTE Networks pumps out is different doesn't mean the tuner doesn't work. It's like saying a camera bought in the US isn't a camera cause it won't plug directly into the national power supply here.

The problem is, it's not broadcast, at all, in Ireland. It can no longer be used. Your camera analogy is silly. This TV was purchased in Ireland, to work in Ireland. It has to be fit for purpose for why it was purchased.

wmpdd3 wrote: »

So its mpeg2 but not Saorview approved?

Really you need the model number to check, are you going by the Saorview website?

Isn't Saorview MPEG4 not MPEG2?

Yamanoto

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

I just had a guy on the phone trying to speel that while it's not on the list of saorview approved sets, it has the device :mad:!

That's plausible

Post the brand and model number

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Yes, I went in to this particular store in two minds on whether to purchase a the saorview box set so first off I had a look at the price of the box set before heading over to the TV section. At that stage the sales assistant approached me so I explained to him that I wanted to purchase a TV rather than a box set because of the age of my old TV and his exact words was well at least you'll get a warranty with this TV. I explained to the sales assistant that I didn't have satellite and it wasn't connected to the aerial up on the roof where I wanted to locate this TV. The sales assistant pointed me in the direction of two different brands of TV's. I asked him whether there were any differences and he said one had more functions but the other one that I eventually bought had lesser functions, but was a better brand and more well known. So on that advice, I bought the second TV.

I phoned the retail outlet today - and they said that while it wasn't soarview approved it had the devices - which is totally at odds with what Saorview had to say.

Sorry for going on....

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Cabaal wrote: »

Really depends when they sold it to you I guess,

Yesterday.

Nody

Can you post the exact model name please? It can simply be that it can show Saorview but they have not updated the list with it yet (also common with Motherboards regarding memory modules for example) or it could be that it is not suitable but either way the model name would be needed to look up the specifications.

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Yamanoto wrote: »

That's plausible

Post the brand and model number

M1931D LG - and I just checked it myself and it's definately not on the approved list.

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wmpdd3 wrote: »

So its mpeg2 but not Saorview approved?

Really you need the model number to check, are you going by the Saorview website?

Yes, I just checked it on the Saorview website and to double check I also phoned Saorview who confirmed that it isn't approved.

Nody

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

M1931D LG - and I just checked it myself and it's definately not on the approved list.

Linky to DID stating "Irish Digital TV Ready" and support MPEG4; hence most likely the Saorview list is not up to date but it should work just fine.

So have you tried to actually use it?

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Nody wrote: »

Linky to DID stating "Irish Digital TV Ready" and support MPEG4; hence most likely the Saorview list is not up to date but it should work just fine.

So have you tried to actually use it?

So why isn't it tuning? When I tried to tune it last night before the analogue was switched off with an old aerial it was only giving me RTE 1 and RTE 2 and even then the reception was very bad. It wasn't tuning in TV3. I went out and got a new saorview approved digital aerial today - and it's not tuning in any station.

Nody

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

So why isn't it tuning? When I tried to tune it last night before the analogue was switched off with an old aerial it was only giving me RTE 1 and RTE 2 and even then the reception was very bad. It wasn't tuning in TV3. I went out and got a new saorview approved digital aerial today - and it's not tuning in any station.

That is most likely a question best asked on the Terrestrial section of boards as this is now sounds as a technical, rather then consumer, related issue

-( i )- Wicker

Powercity and D.I.D. both seem to think its saorview-ready. I cant seem to find the specs so cant be sure. Do you have your region set on the TV as Ireland?

testicle

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

If it wasn't so expensive it be funny

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

M1931D LG - and I just checked it myself and it's definately not on the approved list.

Em, it's a 19" piece of ****. "So expensive" my fecking eye!

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

So why isn't it tuning? When I tried to tune it last night before the analogue was switched off with an old aerial it was only giving me RTE 1 and RTE 2 and even then the reception was very bad. It wasn't tuning in TV3. I went out and got a new saorview approved digital aerial today - and it's not tuning in any station.

Have you the aerial pointed in the right direction?

RangeR

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

So why isn't it tuning? When I tried to tune it last night before the analogue was switched off with an old aerial it was only giving me RTE 1 and RTE 2 and even then the reception was very bad. It wasn't tuning in TV3. I went out and got a new saorview approved digital aerial today - and it's not tuning in any station.

Chances are that you aren't receiving Soarview broadcast. The fact that you couldn't get TV3 on analog hints that to me.

Where is your aerial? you may need one in the attic or roof mounted.
Maybe your aerial just needs to be tweaked in it's current location?

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testicle wrote: »

Em, it's a 19" piece of ****. "So expensive" my fecking eye!



Have you the aerial pointed in the right direction?

If I hand over €160 for an item I expect that it would at least tune in and work. Yes, I pointed the aerial every way that's physically possible.

keithclancy

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

If I hand over €160 for an item I expect that it would at least tune in and work. Yes, I pointed the aerial every way that's physically possible.

Its possible that there isn't Saorview coverage in your area, in that case you need Saorsat.

http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

If you were getting crappy RTE reception and couldnt pick up TV3 then thats probably the case.

Digital is different, it either works or it doesn't, there needs to be a basic signal there for it to work.

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RangeR wrote: »

Chances are that you aren't receiving Soarview broadcast. The fact that you couldn't get TV3 on analog hints that to me.

Where is your aerial? you may need one in the attic or roof mounted.
Maybe your aerial just needs to be tweaked in it's current location?

The aerial is on the window ledge and I have tried tweaking it. Sure, I'll bring it back down to the store.

Shane-KornSpace

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

The aerial is on the window ledge and I have tried tweaking it. Sure, I'll bring it back down to the store.

If the TV is Saorview approved and the TV is not faulty, they wont take it back.
Like a previous poster said, look in to SaorSat.

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keithclancy wrote: »

Its possible that there isn't Saorview coverage in your area, in that case you need Saorsat.

http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

If you were getting crappy RTE reception and couldnt pick up TV3 then thats probably the case.

Digital is different, it either works or it doesn't, there needs to be a basic signal there for it to work.

There is coverage. That was one of the first questions Saorview asked about where I was living.

Anyway, thanks for the advice .

TheDriver

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

The aerial is on the window ledge and I have tried tweaking it. Sure, I'll bring it back down to the store.

No window aerial will work for me and I am in a main town. However when I put a colourking in the attic with no booster and the exact spot, i just get enough for saorview to work (didn't bother getting the booster going yet). Boost that signal and we will be fine.

People seem to think you don't need any decent aerial etc for saorview.

TPM

It sounds like an aerial problem to me.


a non compatible tuner would most likely tune in the radio stations if it had signal.

TheChizler

RangeR wrote: »

You don't "tune" cable or sat to the TV. They have channels all to themselves. That's not using the tuner. So yes.



The problem is, it's not broadcast, at all, in Ireland. It can no longer be used. Your camera analogy is silly. This TV was purchased in Ireland, to work in Ireland. It has to be fit for purpose for why it was purchased.



Isn't Saorview MPEG4 not MPEG2?

The analogy covers both if you consider the point being alleged, that certain functions on a device do not exist because the signal required for full operation isn't available locally. I will extend the analogy to say that, by the logic that a tv is not a tv and just a monitor because the appropriate signal is not available on a national level, that a biodiesel only car is not a car and just a soap-box racer because biodiesel is not available locally.

It might be in effect, and may be a bit silly, but the assertion was that the customer was tricked and missold a monitor because the required signal is not broadcast was an equally silly statement. The tv will perform the function it was claimed to be able to perform if the appropriate signal is fed into it.

If they had falsely assured the customer that it would work then that is another matter.

Yamanoto

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

M1931D LG - and I just checked it myself and it's definately not on the approved list.

Lack of Saorview certification does not preclude the set from decoding Irish digital terrestrial TV. The model above is a case in point - MPEG4 (H.264) + MHEG5 will decode Irish DTT without difficulty.

The problem is either with your aerial or location, not the TV. You mention your aerial's on a window ledge, not a great place to be seeking optimum reception tbh.

Check your coverage here:

http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

skinny90

Just going over your posts about the tv and its ability to get the digital stations.You need to upgrade your ariel,Any saorview device or irish digital device requires a UHF signal(put simply you need to be able tune in tg4,Tv3 on the analogue) From what you said your getting VHF only
replacing the set via box or new tv wont help your situation as both require the UHF signal
Indoor ariels are really a hit and miss job an outdoor ariel pointing in the right direction should be sufficient
Hope that helps:)

TheChizler

skinny90 wrote: »

Just going over your posts about the tv and its ability to get the digital stations.You need to upgrade your ariel,Any saorview device or irish digital device requires a UHF signal(put simply you need to be able tune in tg4,Tv3 on the analogue) From what you said your getting VHF only
replacing the set via box or new tv wont help your situation as both require the UHF signal
Indoor ariels are really a hit and miss job an outdoor ariel pointing in the right direction should be sufficient
Hope that helps:)

I have a metre of coax sticking out the back of my tv picking up the signal just fine, better to make sure that the signal isn't strong enough for the existing antenna before rushing to spend more money.

skinny90

as i said its hit and miss, ie it may work it may not work...

foggy_lad

Caleb Mushy Rumba wrote: »

So why isn't it tuning? When I tried to tune it last night before the analogue was switched off with an old aerial it was only giving me RTE 1 and RTE 2 and even then the reception was very bad. It wasn't tuning in TV3. I went out and got a new saorview approved digital aerial today - and it's not tuning in any station.

You need to switch it over to DTV which will possibly be on your remote. Then go into menu and autotune in stations. It should get to a point in tuning and suddenly all stations will appear together.

Eric Cartman

Sounds like you have an old VHF antenna in your house, probably need a UHF or "digital antenna" as some places are branding them :rolleyes:

wmpdd3

wmpdd3 wrote: »

So its mpeg2 mpeg4 but not Saorview approved?

Really you need the model number to check, are you going by the Saorview website?

Sorry, should have said mpeg 4 , getting confused myself at this point.

dudara

Moved to the Terrestrial forum

dudara

dellWlan

Two things.

First it sounds like you wanted a saorview approved set even if you weren't explicit about it so I'd return it and get an approved set as there's no guarantee that non approved sets will work in the future. As its only 2 days old that shouldn't be a problem.

Second an approved set probably won't fix your reception problem. Was you r old VHF aerial roof mounted or an indoor aerial "rabbit ears"? Your new UHF aerial is obviously an indoor aerial and it sounds like the signal just isn't good enough for that you'll need a loft or roof mounted one.

STB

A few things.

First off, to clear up some misguided assumptions about what is a TV and what isnt. TV's are the ones that have the correct integrated tuners that work out of the box. Monitors are just screens to connect devices.

The terrestrial analogue system was switched off yesterday. The only terrestrial tuners that will work now are those that have integrated digital tuners that can decode MPEG4 H264 AVC (thats the video codec broadcast). Beware that old MPEG2 warehosed stock that only decodes MPEG2 video are incomptible and are only suitable for use with the UK's standard definition Freeview service. No good in Ireland. (a sign that you have bought one of these TV's is you get Sound but no picture.)

If TV's are being sold with the incorrect tuners (hardware) then they should be returned to the shop.

Secondly. Saorview (via a bench Test company) attempted to take the guesswork out of which TV's would work by certifying them as being compatible with the detailed published spec for Saorview. Only those who passed the test get the certification and can display the logo.

Finally, when you see "Irish Digital TV Ready" "And Saorview Compatible" it means they are not Saorview approved, but are able to diaplay the basics Saorview channels according to the retailer.

watty

Finally, when you see "Irish Digital TV Ready" "And Saorview Compatible" it means they are not Saorview approved, but are able to diaplay the basics Saorview channels according to the retailer.

Who is thus liable for ANY incompatibility. Unless it's certified no retailer has the equipment to prove "Saorview Compatible". Pluging it in and getting a picture isn't proof. Legally if you say "Saorview Compatible" it needs to be certified or you need other documentary proof it 100% meets the specification. It will automatically fail on "OTA" upgrades as these are only for Certified sets.

But Consumer protection and laws are not properly and pro-actively enforced here. In France or UK equipment making claims without certification gets seized as either counterfeit or breaking law.

It's not reasonable that people who didn't pay for certification and equipment not equivalent or better should be sold with a "Saorview Compatible" sticker.

SalteeDog

Is this the telly in question?:-

http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/lg/m1931d/lg-m1931d

According to the spec it's Freeview only and not Freeview HD. So MPEG2 only.

Now perhaps that's a UK variant and the Irish one has a better spec?

In any case I advise the OP to return the TV and get a Saorview approved one.

Macy0161

TPM wrote: »

a non compatible tuner would most likely tune in the radio stations if it had signal.

My mpeg2 TV's tune in the TV stations too, but you get sound only.

Whilst I agree to a certain extent about retailers getting around certification, the main issue appears to me to be reception. A fully certified TV wouldn't change that.

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Thanks guys....just to update you that I got someone to connect the TV to the downstairs aerial and guess what it worked on saorview last night. I think it's a problem with the reception tbh, so we'll have to get it connected to the roof aerial.

I was looking at the spec on the UK website below....forgive my ignorance but what's the difference between freeview, freeview sat and freeview HD?

http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/lg/m1931d/lg-m1931d

Another question, if you've got a roof aerial and a freeview satellite with an old tv, do you need a combi box or a soarview box set?

Yamanoto

SalteeDog wrote: »

According to the spec it's Freeview only and not Freeview HD. So MPEG2 only.

Many 'non-HD' Freeview models deliver Saorview without issue & have been certified as such - My LG 32LK450 among them.

Kristopherus

Is there a HDMI socket at the back/side of that LG ?

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Kristopherus wrote: »

Is there a HDMI socket at the back/side of that LG ?

There's a HDMI/DVI IN socket on the rear of the TV.

watty

Yamanoto wrote: »

Many 'non-HD' Freeview models deliver Saorview without issue & have been certified as such - My LG 32LK450 among them.

Anecdotally reported to work. My son's LG "works" even for MHEG5 & teletext according to the spec (it ignores teletext if there is MHEG). But we can't afford the €20K to get it certified.

Unlike most retailers I have read the Saorview/Nordig/MHEG/DVB specs and have Broadcast Engineering qualifications. I even have a lab. But I can't compete with Teracom. Not even come close on testing.

Capt'n Midnight

In general.

If you have a digital TV and you can't pick up the radio channels then you almost certainly have an aerial / tuning problem. Sort that out first as that is your problem "Do not pass Go, do not collect €200"

If you can get radio stations AND the TV says the signal is good quality then it's probably not capable of decoding Saorview.

If you bought it in the ROI within the last two years as a television then they have to take it back as it's not fit for it's intended purpose.

Yamanoto

watty wrote: »

Anecdotally reported to work. My son's LG "works" even for MHEG5 & teletext according to the spec (it ignores teletext if there is MHEG). But we can't afford the €20K to get it certified.

Perhaps we've our wires crossed - not sure why you excised 'certified', as many 'Freeview only' models have passed certification.

Previous models such as the LG xxLD450 fit the 'anecdotal' profile.

However, the LG xxLK450 (and several others) are listed certified on the Saorview site - Freeview only. From memory, the Samsung LE & PS ranges would mirror that.

watty

Sorry:
I thought you talking about Freeview sets with MPEG4 (which of course can work well).

Ironically there are some Freeview HD sets that don't work as well as the earlier Freeview models. I was talking about sets that appear to work but have never had Saorview certification. I mistook the model number.

Yes, in fact to Saorview Certification, it's not relevant what other specs or Certification there is unless you can get a UK signal. In which case you need DVB-T2, a post 2012 Certified Saorview or a "Freeview HD" model that is reported acceptable on Saorview, depending which platform is more important to you.