Gas boiler supplied and fitted price

JAMCAR

Hi. Guys, I am looking to have a Gas boiler supplied and fitted by a Registered fitter, I have had a quote of €1,500, would that be in and around the cheapest price I would get as I have had other quotes for over €2,000, would really appreciate any help, I am based in the Dublin 22 Area, thanks.

gdavis

there are a number of questions u should be asking; make model of boiler?is it a rated?length of wwarranty,is system going to be chemically flushed before install and inhibitor added after.1500 is very cheap if its a decent boiler and system to be powerflushed which if it is of any age,it should be

shane0007

Completely agree. I certainly would not be doing it for anywhere near that price. The way I see it, €1,500 is a lot to waste on a bad job.

JohnnieK

I was only talking about this today. I'm getting more and more calls lately to 1 and 2 year old boilers where there are issues because the system was not cleaned. One was a vokera ehe and the customer was told it was A rated.

OP make sure the system is power flushed before what ever new boiler you go for.

Nedser101

How is 1500 euro cheap when the majority of fitters are charging that for a straight swap

shane0007

So you can power flush a hearing system complete that will take the guts of a day, you can then come back the next day and install a decent make boiler, wiring, condensate, prv discharge, pipe work, then spend a couple of hours commissioning the boiler and the heating system, balancing the system, decent quality inhibitor, all for €1,500 including VAT.

Please expand on your €1,500 price that all these installers are doing it for as most of my mates in the game are charging a lot more than that, myself included. I am very interested in hearing your response.

Nedser101

Ye don't have to make it sound like its rocket science any fitter who knows what there doing would have the boiler swaped out in a couple of hours and as for a couple of hours to commission a boiler come on!

shane0007

So how would you commission a boiler? Would that be if it lights it is commissioned?

Nedser101

Yep only if the lights green though!

shane0007

You still have not expanded on the questions asked of you.

Nedser101

Do you seriously want me to quote prices for boilers ,inhibitors and parts, I already told you it takes a day so do the maths man.

shane0007

Nedser101 wrote: »

Do you seriously want me to quote prices for boilers ,inhibitors and parts, I already told you it takes a day so do the maths man.

No you're fine. I don't require any further information from you.

Nedser101

Ok sir!

gdavis

nedser,any plumber can go into a house,drain down remove old boiler,install and connect new one,fill up and vent and job done in a day,but are they gonna be there to pick up the pieces when all goes bellyup maybe 6 months /1 year down the line due to the installers ignorance?i dont understand why u are throwing your misinformed tuppenny bit in to a thread where someone has asked a question and is getting honest well informed responces

Nedser101

Nedser101 wrote: »

How is 1500 euro cheap when the majority of fitters are charging that for a straight swap

No their not, but there are a lot of fair weather gas fitters who are not too concerned about call backs, flushing, wiring, boiler sizing, system controls, commissioning, customer satisfaction blah,blah,blah... Now they love a bit of cash and a cheap price, I know this because they have my heart broke as I call after them and have to help sort out their mess.

shane0007

They are also not concerned about client safety and do not even possess a FGA. Boiler could be bellowing out CO and they would never even know or care. They think bonding comes out of a tube called "No More Nails" that can be sometimes used to hang the said boiler!
Then when asked how they commission a boiler, waffle begins.

Nedser101

So what all you guys are saying is because someone is charging less for a job is less competent than a guy is charging more ???

JohnnieK

Nedser101 wrote: »

So what all you guys are saying is because someone is charging less for a job is less competent than a guy is charging more ???

I don't think there saying that.

What this is about is trying to figure out how most of us have to charge higher to make a profit and cover costs. I personally lost out on a boiler job to someone who charged €1100. I called in to do something else and the home owner was showing me his fancy new A rated boiler (as he was told). It was
a Vokera EHE which we all know is a B band boiler. I priced to put in a purpose made soak away because no drain near for the condense line. All they done was over flow pipe looking down a foot off the ground (not to manufactures instructions) Overall the piping to it was also shocking and unsupported. You get what you pay for. Oh and the system was still rotten because it was never treated and it was for this reason the original boiler needed to be replaced. I will give that EHE heat exchanger 6 months until it blocks up.

If a job is done for that price picture this.

Total: €1500
Less 13.5% VAT 1321.59

For argument sake we will say €850 for A rated boiler = 471.59

Chemicals and materials maybe less €150 = 321.00

It takes a day to clean most systems and a day to fit commision and re- balance system as all valves need to be open when cleaning 321.00 / 2 = 160.79 so that would leave you with around 20 per hour providing it's a 8 hour day. You have to pay for Diesel, Tax out of that too.

Plus remember you are not a charity and your company has to make a profit from your jobs. If you work for nothing you will be busy.

DGOBS

Nedser, you can't argue the pricing here the guys are giving, and you seem to be very quiet about breaking down your costs @ 1500 for a boiler replacement.

It's pretty simple really, you get what you pay for, and if it's a direct boiler swap, ignoring safety, standards and manufacturers instructions, and generally not caring about the quality of your work, off you trot at that price.

But be aware, all manufacturers warranty is void for a start, and it's your name on the cert.

I have had the lovely task of explaining to a couple who woke in the night (the first night they used the new boiler fitted with that attitude) with her vomiting and him with blood streaming from his nose, how they were extremely luck to be alive as the flue was incorrectly fitted and as the boiler was not commissioned or flue gas analysed, the installer didn't realise it was producing in excess of 10000ppm CO (thats two breaths and your asleep, 2 minutes and your gone!)

How they got out of that room alive is nothing short of a miracle, but hey, who cares, the green light was on!

Nedser101

Dgobs.are you saying just because someone is doing a job cheaper is less capable and less competent than someone who is more expensive

shane0007

Nedser101 wrote: »

Dgobs.are you saying just because someone is doing a job cheaper is less capable and less competent than someone who is more expensive

You have categorically stated that it only takes a couple of hours to change a boiler. You have not stated how you commission a boiler only to agree your extent goes to the green light comes on, job done. You have ignored and refused to explain how you commission a boiler. You have said basically a couple of hours to commission a boiler is a joke. Soundness testing on altered pipe work, gas rate on low fire, gas rate on high fire, fga on high fire, then on low and the again on high fire. Electrical commissioning, cert works, homeowner explanations, manufacturer manual commissioning paperwork, the list goes on. I can truly say that I have never flushed a system and installed a gas boiler in 1 day. I have never finishing flushing a system before 3 o'clock. Chemicals alone cost €50 for small systems and €100 + for larger systems,

Not to mention cost of sundries that seem to get missed, such as roll of 10 square costing €120 + vat a roll, a box of pipe clamps €25 + vat, spurs, 4 core heat resistant flex, etc.

But hey ho, in your opinion, all this can be done in a couple of hours for €1,500 including vat.

I am much, much, much more likely to find brutal installation with cheap installations:eek:, someone needs to tell these fruitloop installers that a boiler isn't just for Christmas and needs to last for years.

DGOBS

Not at all, but there is a limit to how cheap something can be done in a proper manner, again I would like to see you break down that cost to cover what the manufacturer requires for 'correct' installation

I have an enormous pain in my backside mopping up after poorly installed boilers, and explaining to customers why for instance their 2 year old A rated boiler now needs a €500 heatexchanger etc.

And I my experience it is always the 'cheap' installation. False economy

So man up and prove your costings, as you seem
Reluctant to do so for some reason

JohnnieK

I also seen on another thread you asked spireland32 if you had to be a qualified plumber to join the APHCI? Are you a plumber?

DGOBS

Bump..

Notice this threads outspoken installer has become very silent?

Easy make a comment, a little harder to break it down for all to see!

cubix

Lads
Whats your thoughts on a filter (magnaclean or similar) being fitted instead of going to the bother of power flushing which as mentioned here can be time comsuming. Another words if all rads where heating prior to change out, install chemical cleaner and allow to run, drain system, remove old boiler, fit new unit, fit filter, refill system with inhibitor.
Would appreciate advice on said cleaners, I know there are ones you put in and leave for a week or so and then more concentrated units (I presume) that are only run for a number of hours

DGOBS

They are fantastic cleaners, but will not remove the sludge built up in the rads, only what is in suspension.
After flushing it's great to fit them to maintain the system, not as an alternative to flushing alone

Robbie.G

cubix wrote: »

Lads
Whats your thoughts on a filter (magnaclean or similar) being fitted instead of going to the bother of power flushing which as mentioned here can be time comsuming. Another words if all rads where heating prior to change out, install chemical cleaner and allow to run, drain system, remove old boiler, fit new unit, fit filter, refill system with inhibitor.
Would appreciate advice on said cleaners, I know there are ones you put in and leave for a week or so and then more concentrated units (I presume) that are only run for a number of hours

On a new boiler the heating system has to be flushed
Even if you added all chemicals and fitted a filter you would be emptying it every second day for a week or two.
The pump in the power flusher go forward and backwards which agitates the system and leads to a better flush out
In an ideal world the system should be treated with all cleansing chemicals power flushed inhibitor added and a magnetic filter fitted.Unfortunitly people won't pay for that they will pay paddy down the road to do a cheap job and the decent installer will be ridiculed for been a dear so and so.

cubix

DGOBS/Robbie What is a well used model by yourselves, have you ever heard or come across where a powerflush has caused leaks.

Robbie.G

cubix wrote: »

DGOBS/Robbie What is a well used model by yourselves, have you ever heard or come across where a powerflush has caused leaks.

You do have to be careful if the system no GB a power flusher does not create high water pressure it is flow rate
I mainly use magnacleans but the filters made by fernox and spriotec are very good
I use a fernox power flusher connected to a magnacleanse double mag filter I find that way it cuts down cleaning time but is a expensive setup

anuprising

was hunting for a part and came across this

http://www.gasparts.ie/gas-boilers/boiler-deals/potterton-baxi-system-12he-plus-a.html


can see a wave of sub €1000 jobs being offered

DGOBS

hmm, 12kw only, no warranty!! they can keep them

anuprising

12kw not the issue , I'm wondering why they have no warrenty , anyone know anything ?
I wouldn't touch them even with a warrenty but would like to know what's going on

shane0007

anuprising wrote: »

12kw not the issue , I'm wondering why they have no warrenty , anyone know anything ?
I wouldn't touch them even with a warrenty but would like to know what's going on

They have no warranty as they have been sitting in their warehouse for past 4+ years. They are outside the manufacturer's warranty and are sold without any warranty apart from if you hang it on the wall and it don't work first off.
They might suit the €1,500 boiler guys!

It's common to sell out of fashion boilers here in Ireland, look how hungry some installers are for cheap SE boilers with or without warranty, it's not like they'll be hanging around to look after their own warranty which lasts till the cheque clears.

anuprising

shane0007 wrote: »

They have no warranty as they have been sitting in their warehouse for past 4+ years. They are outside the manufacturer's warranty and are sold without any warranty apart from if you hang it on the wall and it don't work first off.
They might suit the €1,500 boiler guys!

are gasparts.ie around 4+ years? ,

manufacturers warrenty doesnt usually start until a sales invoice says it was sold on a certain date .

i have to get a part from them tomorrow i will check with them then

anuprising

gary71 wrote: »

It's common to sell out of fashion boilers here in Ireland, look how hungry some installers are for cheap SE boilers with or without warranty, it's not like they'll be hanging around to look after their own warranty which lasts till the cheque clears.

se boilers are the most sought after unavailable boiler in ireland , i was told vokera have a waiting list for them .

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

se boilers are the most sought after unavailable boiler in ireland , i was told vokera have a waiting list for them .

And SE boilers should of stopped selling when? SE boiler stopped being manufactured years ago not that you know living in Ireland.

anuprising

gary71 wrote: »

And SE boilers should of stopped selling when? SE boiler stopped being manufactured years ago not that you know living in Ireland.

maybe your brand gary ,and i would expect more from you ,and me living in ireland has nothing to do with knowledge .

i shall provide some evidence for you

(its easy peesy lemon squeesy ?)


http://www.vokera.co.uk/trade-professionals/boilers/mynute-se/

• Non condensing sealed system boiler
• Can be installed if a condensing boiler installation would not be suitable and there is an exemption certificate
• Certified and approved for use with Type C2, shared flue systems, e.g. SE Duct and U Duct
• Compact dimensions, kitchen cupboard fit
• Optional pipe cover for a neat finish
• Compatible with Vokèra Zenith solar thermal system

• http://www.vokera.co.uk/trade-professionals/boilers/

i await you apology gary
its the same rules here in ireland as it is in the uk

anything else i can clarify for you ?

shane0007

Ouch, I even felt that one! Poor Gary....

I came across the same offer from that crowd in Naas, can't remember their name. They are the main stockists for WB. I was in picking up a WB and they had the same offer written on a plaque. I asked what was the deal and they said they had them in their warehouse for past 4 years and they were sold without warranty. I questioned them on the issue of it if is sold with a receipt it must have a warranty. They disagreed. I think I even posted on Boards a while back about them. I think I still have a photo of the plaque offer.

anuprising

seriosly pissed off with garys ireland quip

gary71 ,if your going to continue a career in ireland you might want to read our technical guidence documents
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,18691,en.pdf

please go to page 77 when it gives an 'easy peesy' flow chart on assessing whether you can install a non condensing (se ) boiler page 83 gives you the assessment form should you ever need it

anuprising

shane0007 wrote: »

Ouch, I even felt that one! Poor Gary....

I came across the same offer from that crowd in Naas, can't remember their name. They are the main stockists for WB. I was in picking up a WB and they had the same offer written on a plaque. I asked what was the deal and they said they had them in their warehouse for past 4 years and they were sold without warranty. I questioned them on the issue of it if is sold with a receipt it must have a warranty. They disagreed. I think I even posted on Boards a while back about them. I think I still have a photo of the plaque offer.

yes its an unusual one alright ,i have never come across an offer such as this so was trying to get details .dont think it would temp me

shane0007

You are correct on being able to install a SE boiler when a HE cannot be. This is also the same for the UK. I think where Gary is coming from is that we lack building control and SE boilers are fitted without anyone ever going through the TGD and sending in an exemption certificate. Installers install them not because they cannot install a HE one, but they are cheaper to buy and therefore they can get away with even more profit.
The other point I think he is making is that when manufacturer's discontinue a particular boiler in the UK, any amassed stock is indeed usually pawned off on the Irish market. Spares become a major issue then and a Service Technician's nightmare.
I stand to be corrected by Gary.

anuprising

im not going to guess what gary thought , i deal in facts he stated what he thought and is wrong . i hate the way he constantly refers to the irish system when he obviously doesnt know it himself .

a se boiler is now actually dearer to buy than a he boiler , supply and demand takes care of that , a vokera se i think is around 1200 euros

what most fly by nites are installing is band b boilers , a cheap and nasty yoke ,hang it and run .looks like an se but have a recovery unit on top of heat exchanger beside fan

shane0007

anuprising wrote: »

yes its an unusual one alright ,i have never come across an offer such as this so was trying to get details .dont think it would temp me

Found the photo.
Potterton Promax 12kw HE Incl Flue €369 incl VAT
Potterton Promax 15kw HE Incl Flue €381 incl VAT
Potterton Promax 18kw HE Incl Flue €395 incl VAT
#Conditions Apply#
It did not tempt me either.

JohnnieK

I thought Promax where band A

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

maybe your brand gary ,and  i would expect more from you ,and me living in ireland has nothing to do with knowledge .
 
i shall provide some evidence for you 
 
(its easy peesy lemon squeesy ?)
 
 
 http://www.vokera.co.uk/trade-professionals/boilers/mynute-se/
 

• Non condensing sealed system boiler
• Can be installed if a condensing boiler installation would not be suitable and there is an exemption certificate
• Certified and approved for use with Type C2, shared flue systems, e.g. SE Duct and U Duct
• Compact dimensions, kitchen cupboard fit
• Optional pipe cover for a neat finish
• Compatible with Vokèra Zenith solar thermal system

 

• http://www.vokera.co.uk/trade-professionals/boilers/

 
i await you apology gary  
its the same rules here in ireland as it is in the uk 
 
anything else i can clarify for you ?

I didn't know we were arguing I understand SE boilers can still be sold, for me to say otherwise would be silly, so I'll apologies for my lack of clarity, not a problem I'm used to having with a fellow RGI.

SE boilers have become very difficult in the UK to fit as each boiler fitted has to be registered  and if you fit a SE you have to prove it meets the criteria.

Why do you think every SE boiler and their mother ended up in Ireland , why do you think manufactures fitted recuperators in SE boilers, why do you think some RGI's are struggling with the jump in controllability on condensing boilers compared with SE boilers, why is it common to find boilers in Ireland that stopped selling in the UK and Europe 5/6 years before (in some cases).

Maybe I should clarify for those who don't understand the industry very well, SE boilers should be rarely fitted and should of stopped being the normal go to boilers for installations many years ago, as it is in the UK, SE boiler are only fitted when fitting a condensing  boiler isn't practical and you can't big up similarities on regs without clarifying the difference in enforcement

The crowd I work for stopped making SE boilers 7 years ago but they only stopped being sold here last year for numerous reasons and all had warranties. Do i like that, no, I would prefer a level playing field where all installers follow the regs (see links below), good installers lose out to those fitting SE boilers at times.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,16982,en.pdf

http://idhee.org.uk/ExceptionsGuide.pdf

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

seriosly pissed off with garys ireland quip

You need to get over yourself, you're relying on text to interpret where I'm coming from and you just don't get me,which is fine;) and a bit funny as you couldn't be further from the truth :eek:

gary71 wrote: »

And SE boilers should of stopped selling when? SE boiler stopped being manufactured years ago not that you know living in Ireland.

anuprising wrote: »

and me living in ireland has nothing to do with knowledge .

i shall provide some evidence for you

I figured out the misunderstanding anuprising, that was my bad grammar and not ment to mean you;)

shane0007

shane0007 wrote: »

The other point I think he is making is that when manufacturer's discontinue a particular boiler in the UK, any amassed stock is indeed usually pawned off on the Irish market. Spares become a major issue then and a Service Technician's nightmare.
I stand to be corrected by Gary.

Thank you Shane:D

As a proud Irish man I find it "pisses" me off that it's ok to send any old cack to Ireland which has been happening for years, the people who loss out are the customers who want what they are paying for and not something that couldn't be sold elsewhere.

Gasparts,ie are good people.

I hope my recommendation isn't the end of them:D

DGOBS

I would love to know where in Eire you can find a building using SE and U ducts ???

And to be honest, there is not many situations in domestic premises where fitting a condensing appliance is unfeasible (just a little more awkward)

Also, on the Band B boilers (ie. with a secondary 'condensing heatexchanger) I see Arca's version is rated as a Sedbuk 'Band A' ????????