Atheist Billboard Slams Romney's Faith

Beruthiel

joseph brand wrote: »

Plus, didn't Romney christen Ann's dead Atheist father, around 14 months after he was dead?

I never knew that!
What an utterly shocking betrayal of a parent to just completely ignore the fact that he was a atheist.
Not to mention that it's just a bizarre thing to do.
Did they dig him up to perform the ceremony?

[-0-]

Beruthiel wrote: »

I never knew that!
What an utterly shocking betrayal of a parent to just completely ignore the fact that he was a atheist.
Not to mention that it's just a bizarre thing to do.
Did they dig him up to perform the ceremony?

Read this: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2011/10/is_mormonism_a_cult_who_cares_it_s_their_weird_and_sinister_beli.html

Nodin

jank wrote: »

I love this hypocrisy. Romney is the big bad wolf because he is a Morman, yet by all intents and purposes Obama is just as religious as him yet he gets a free pass because he suits your political view more. Cant make this up.

What did Joe Biden say in the VP debate, "Religion makes me the person I am"
Yet everyone loves a bit of Joe!!

If you were consistent then you would be pouring scorn over both of them rather than singling out one party for criticism.

When Obama becomes a Bishop, you might have a point.

General Relativity

jank wrote: »

yet by all intents and purposes Obama is just as religious as him yet he gets a free pass because he suits your political view more. Cant make this up.

I'd be shocked if Obama was anything other then atheist or agnostic. He was raised by two Athiests. The religious stuff is more then likely an act to win votes.

ShooterSF

Again though, being a liar is worse than being a christian.

Nodin

General Relativity wrote: »

I'd be shocked if Obama was anything other then atheist or agnostic. He was raised by two Athiests. The religious stuff is more then likely an act to win votes.

...it being America, its actually more likely an act not to lose them, unfortunately.

SpatialPlanning

joseph brand wrote: »

There's plenty of 'catholics' here in Ireland who are no more catholic than I. But a mormon is a mormon. There's no lapsed or laissez faire mormons. Don't the Romney sons look like androids? That blank mormon stare and plastic head? /shudder

Romney chose to omit mentioning his church/ cult for obvious reasons. Obama sees an advantage in using religious rhetoric, although it's the bare minimum.

I have no religious affiliation of any kind. I was raised Catholic :eek:

The bold part of your statement is untrue. Quite a large number of Mormons, especially younger Mormons, no longer buy into the strict rules and regulations of the Mormon faith. Many remain to simply be a part of a community. They will appear to tow the line as a way of keeping their more traditional parents/relatives happy. I think that many would choose to leave the religion if it wasn't so difficult for them to do so. Imagine - your entire family are mormon, your friends and entire social circle are all mormon, you probably went to a mormom school/church. If you break away from this you are starting anew. That takes some amount of bravery and courage. I don't agree with any part of the Mormon religion, as a religion. As a religion, I think it's a complete farce and I wonder how intelligent people can be so fooled by it. But, as people, they have many admirable personality traits. Among other things, they have strong family values and they are ambitious and look to succeed in a personal and professional sense.

The underlined part of your statement probably says more about you than it does about them.

[-0-]

ShooterSF wrote: »

Again though, being a liar is worse than being a christian.

I'm sorry but, being a Christian is being a liar. At least Creationists believe the bible word for word. Christians cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad stuff by covering their eyes and ears and shouting "LALALALALALALA OLD TESTAMENT NONSENSE LALALALALALA".

ShooterSF

[-0-] wrote: »

I'm sorry but, being a Christian is being a liar. At least Creationists believe the bible word for word. Christians cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad stuff by covering their eyes and ears and shouting "LALALALALALALA OLD TESTAMENT NONSENSE LALALALALALA".

No it's self delusion. They honestly believe the bits they believe and not the bit's they don't. It's insane, weird but honest. Not that all religious people are honest about everything.

I just think for democracy to work properly, as in to give an honest representation of what the public want in a government people running for elections can't lie about what they believe. It's a hollow victory if the type of person you'd like to see get elected does so by duping a large portion of the electorate that wanted a different kind of person. And I can't support a dishonest action just because the ends justify the means or other such crap.

Now I'm not saying Obama is an atheist, I'm saying if he is and chose to hide it to get elected I'd actually think less of him, not more.

[-0-]

ShooterSF wrote: »

No it's self delusion. They honestly believe the bits they believe and not the bit's they don't. It's insane, weird but honest. Not that all religious people are honest about everything.

I dunno man. I believe they are just lying to themselves. My wife is Christian, and she lived in Tennessee from 8 years old until she was 22. Her family are from New York but they bought a farm down south and moved there. She was fairly devout when I met her, and the more we speak about religion and the bible the more she is seeing through the lies, and fabrications. Now, I'm not trying to turn her into a non believer. I'm just trying to show her an outside view because it's the way she was brought up and she never thought about things too deeply - for example if she was born in India she might be a Hindu, and her best friend is a Hindu so is she going to hell? And so on.

However, when we talk about the Bible she will openly say that they just concentrate on the New Testament in her church, and they actually only concentrate on the good parts as well. She brings her bible to Church and makes notes in it and she hasn't ever read the Old Testament. I showed her a few passages which say stuff like if a man shaves his face it's punishable by death and if a woman who marries isn't a virgin she should be killed. When pushed she admitted that she had looked in the Old Testament but it was too crazy that she ignored it. So she knows the bad stuff that is there, and she's just lying to herself by ignoring it.

Deep down I think they all know how nuts it is, but they're just terrified of the alternative of having no God, and they just love the thought of there being one.

Church is also a social event for lots of people. I met people down there who go to Church and aren't believers, they do it simply to meet people because they might live 5 miles from the nearest person.

The Bishop!

Funnily enough, when you look at all the Presidential candidates, the biggest fruitcake of the lot of them and the most dangerous in my view is also the least religious - Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party.

The Ayn Rand fan who wants to dismantle public healthcare, education and welfare. The man who wants to completely deregulate financial markets, abolish workers rights including minimum wage and child labour laws, abolish environmental regulations like cap-and-trade that control industrial pollution, slash taxes on corporations and the super-rich, cut off foreign aid, abolish all gun control laws.

As they say in the States, "go figure". I'd personally recommend voting for a candidate based on their policies and not their religious affiliations or lack thereof.

Nodin

The Bishop! wrote: »

Funnily enough, when you look at all the Presidential candidates, the biggest fruitcake of the lot of them and the most dangerous in my view is also the least religious - Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party.

The Ayn Rand fan who wants to dismantle public healthcare, education and welfare. The man who wants to completely deregulate financial markets, abolish workers rights including minimum wage and child labour laws, abolish environmental regulations like cap-and-trade that control industrial pollution, slash taxes on corporations and the super-rich, cut off foreign aid, abolish all gun control laws.

As they say in the States, "go figure". I'd personally recommend voting for a candidate based on their policies and not their religious affiliations or lack thereof.

...and if their religous affiliation determines their policies.....? Nobody gives a crap what Biden believes, because he's not going to be responsible for trying to ram it down peoples throats.

Gbear

General Relativity wrote: »

I'd be shocked if Obama was anything other then atheist or agnostic. He was raised by two Athiests. The religious stuff is more then likely an act to win votes.

I think atheists just lie to themselves and try to pretend Obama isn't religious.

Isn't the church he belonged to totally bat****?

The stigma that atheism faces in the US is an utter farce .
An awful lot of Republican representatives are an embarrassment to our species. How rotten does an institution have to get for so many Republicans to be either so incredibly ignorant or so incredibly cynical if they don't believe the utter infantile bollocks that they constantly spew?
I also don't get how people other than Fox and their zealots continue to refer to them as the Grand Old Party. Anachronistic Ignorant **** would be more apt.

America really represents the very best and very worst of humanity.

The Bishop!

Nodin wrote: »

Nobody gives a crap what Biden believes, because he's not going to be responsible for trying to ram it down peoples throats.

This is true. He's leaving his beliefs at the door so to speak. That's how it should be.

jank

General Relativity wrote: »

I'd be shocked if Obama was anything other then atheist or agnostic. He was raised by two Athiests. The religious stuff is more then likely an act to win votes.

No, they were not Athiests and anyway if they were does that mean one is automatically an athiest if raised by one?
I suppose when he was in his 20's he was "forced" to go to christian religious services as he knew one day he would be POTUS?

joseph brand

SpatialPlanning wrote: »

I have no religious affiliation of any kind. I was raised Catholic :eek:

The bold part of your statement is untrue. Quite a large number of Mormons, especially younger Mormons, no longer buy into the strict rules and regulations of the Mormon faith. Many remain to simply be a part of a community. They will appear to tow the line as a way of keeping their more traditional parents/relatives happy. I think that many would choose to leave the religion if it wasn't so difficult for them to do so. Imagine - your entire family are mormon, your friends and entire social circle are all mormon, you probably went to a mormom school/church. If you break away from this you are starting anew. That takes some amount of bravery and courage. I don't agree with any part of the Mormon religion, as a religion. As a religion, I think it's a complete farce and I wonder how intelligent people can be so fooled by it. But, as people, they have many admirable personality traits. Among other things, they have strong family values and they are ambitious and look to succeed in a personal and professional sense.

The underlined part of your statement probably says more about you than it does about them.

Polygamy.

Romney's great-grandfather Miles Park Romney, "came to the Chihuahua desert in 1885 seeking refuge from U.S. anti-polygamy laws."

A man havin' himself six wives and fifty kids. That there's real family values! If there's one thing a woman loves, it's sharing her husband with another woman. Perhaps some female posters on here can back me up?



Look at the joy in their faces. That has to be a coloured photo from the 1880's, surely?

Is it only mormons who "look to succeed in a personal and professional sense"?
The mormon church wants to sell it's silly fairy tales to anyone gullible enough to part with 10% of their wages. Romney converted Ann, her siblings, her mother and then her dead Atheist father to the mormon cult. Plus, he's a mormon bishop, for christ's god's heaven's Pete's sake crying out loud.

For anyone interested in mormons fighting the Mexican drug cartels, featuring Romney's relatives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIyaIHsJbc

Vice magazine is excellent. They report from some very scary places.

joseph brand

Gbear wrote: »

I think atheists just lie to themselves and try to pretend Obama isn't religious.

Isn't the church he belonged to totally bat****?

The stigma that atheism faces in the US is an utter farce .
An awful lot of Republican representatives are an embarrassment to our species. How rotten does an institution have to get for so many Republicans to be either so incredibly ignorant or so incredibly cynical if they don't believe the utter infantile bollocks that they constantly spew?
I also don't get how people other than Fox and their zealots continue to refer to them as the Grand Old Party. Anachronistic Ignorant **** would be more apt.

America really represents the very best and very worst of humanity.

Obama is for gay marriage.

Free contraception for women provision of Obama health care law starts today [August 1, 2012]

We Atheists think Obama is also an Atheist because of, HOPE! There's probably some good old wishful thinking in there too. As long as he doesn't start any holy wars, proclaim that gays make baby jesus cry, or tell rape victims about their ability to self abort.

His mother was raised by non-practicing Christians; his father was raised a Muslim but was an atheist by the time he had married Obama's mother. Obama's step-father was also Muslim, but of an eclectic kind who could make room for animist and Hindu beliefs. Neither Obama nor his mother were ever atheists, but she raised him in a relatively secular household where he learned about religion.

For further reading, see here.

Jimoslimos

The Bishop! wrote: »

Funnily enough, when you look at all the Presidential candidates, the biggest fruitcake of the lot of them and the most dangerous in my view is also the least religious - Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party.

The Ayn Rand fan who wants to dismantle public healthcare, education and welfare. The man who wants to completely deregulate financial markets, abolish workers rights including minimum wage and child labour laws, abolish environmental regulations like cap-and-trade that control industrial pollution, slash taxes on corporations and the super-rich, cut off foreign aid, abolish all gun control laws.

As they say in the States, "go figure". I'd personally recommend voting for a candidate based on their policies and not their religious affiliations or lack thereof.

I've said it before and been slated for it but I'd rather a religious Rep/Dem president than an atheist Libertarian.

Beruthiel

joseph brand wrote: »

If there's one thing a woman loves, it's sharing her husband with another woman. Perhaps some female posters on here can back me up?

Ya joseph.
Us wimmins are so placid and altruistic, we'd have no problem with that at all.

SpatialPlanning

joseph brand wrote: »

Polygamy.


A man havin' himself six wives and fifty kids. That there's real family values! If there's one thing a woman loves, it's sharing her husband with another woman. Perhaps some female posters on here can back me up?



Look at the joy in their faces. That has to be a coloured photo from the 1880's, surely?

Is it only mormons who "look to succeed in a personal and professional sense"?
The mormon church wants to sell it's silly fairy tales to anyone gullible enough to part with 10% of their wages. Romney converted Ann, her siblings, her mother and then her dead Atheist father to the mormon cult. Plus, he's a mormon bishop, for christ's god's heaven's Pete's sake crying out loud.

For anyone interested in mormons fighting the Mexican drug cartels, featuring Romney's relatives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIyaIHsJbc

Vice magazine is excellent. They report from some very scary places.

1. Polygamy isn't a reality for, or a belief of, the majority of mormons. Exactly how many mormons do you know? What are you basing your opinions on? I never had any interactions with mormons up until the last year but my experience of their religion and culture allows me to make these observations.

2. Again, commenting on a photo and assuming it's representative of a larger group adds nothing to this discussion other than defining you a little more.

3. I didn't say that it was only mormons who have admirable traits. Your point here is moot.

If you are going to argue a point then please at least try to use some sore of reasoning and rational for your arguments. State your point, not sensationalist babble, then back it up by facts or your own experiences.

Again, I don't agree with the religion. I could give many specific examples of why that is - degrees of heaven, founded by a fraud, "worthiness", specific teachings and interpretations of the bible, their insistence that their members don't intentionally research anything negative or questioning about their faith...etc. I could go into more depth on a personal level about other disagreements I have had in my interactions but I don't see the need or point here. I am not religious and I see as many inconsistencies/untruths/lies/outrageous beliefs in almost every other religion.

So, I absolutely stand by my previous post. But if you disagree with me then by all means explain why...

Gbear

joseph brand wrote: »

Obama is for gay marriage.

Free contraception for women provision of Obama health care law starts today [August 1, 2012]

I would think that the overwhelming majority of Democrats are religious and support those policies. Just because the demented right-wing element of the US, represented by the Republicans, are religious and believe in medieval health policies doesn't mean that being liberal and religious is a total oxymoron.

Obama is probably a secular christian. Perhaps he's even a deist.
There's still a fairly small number of people who aren't religious and don't believe in any deity.

The real point, as other have pointed out and citing Joe Biden not wanting to mix his religious beliefs in politics, is that Obama's religious beliefs do not appear to be adversely affecting his policy.

Nodin

Beruthiel wrote: »

Ya joseph.
Us wimmins are so placid and altruistic, we'd have no problem with that at all.

And nurturing. You forgot the nurturing.

General Relativity

jank wrote: »

No, they were not Athiests and anyway if they were does that mean one is automatically an athiest if raised by one?
I suppose when he was in his 20's he was "forced" to go to christian religious services as he knew one day he would be POTUS?

Ann Dunham;

his 2006 book The Audacity of Hope Obama wrote, "I was not raised in a religious household ... My mother's own experiences ... only reinforced this inherited skepticism. Her memories of the Christians who populated her youth were not fond ones ... And yet for all her professed secularism, my mother was in many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I've ever known." "Religion for her was "just one of the many ways — and not necessarily the best way — that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives," Obama wrote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham

Brack Obama Sr.;

Religion: None (Atheist)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.

The Mad Hatter

If anyone's interested in watching the debate - in spite of a couple of moderation hiccups at the beginning, it's very good - then you can do so here. To be honest, three out of the four candidates I'd rather see in the White House than either Obama or Romney (not that that'll ever happen). All four of them seem more sincere and consistent in their political beliefs than either main-party candidate.

I expect that Johnson's popularity will pull more than a handful of votes away from Romney, and that's no bad thing either.

SeanW

joseph brand wrote: »

What exactly has Obama done that's as crazy as this?

Obamacare - including the hiring of 16,000 new IRS agents. He's also almost doubled the U.S. National Debt since 2008 (from 'only' US$10tn to US$16tn.

robindch

SeanW wrote: »

Obamacare - including the hiring of 16,000 new IRS agents. He's also almost doubled the U.S. National Debt since 2008 (from 'only' US$10tn to US$16tn.

The strange propaganda emanating from Fox News/The Tea Party notwithstanding, most of the increase in the USA's debt in the last ten years have little to do with Obama, and much to do with the unfettered idiocy of the moron who preceded him in the White House.

The main contributors to the massive increase in debt are the direct costs of the recession which Bush helped cause (3.5Tn, lower tax take, higher social protection costs), Bush's tax cuts (1.5Tn), Bush's two wars (1.4Tn), massively increased defense spending (1.5Tn much of that due to Republican/Tea Party intransigence within Congress), increased interest payments on the above (1.4Tn), and 0.9Tn on stimulus measures (most of which, it's fair to say, were probably Obama's idea).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Change_in_debt_position_since_2001