Atheist forced to participate in prayer at school

Tim Robbins

Alarming story about a young man age 16 forced to participate in prayer in a so called multi denomiational school. Page 7 main section of Sunday Times. Can't find link to it.

The school is Borrisokane in Co. tipp.

http://www.borrisokanecc.ie/

The young man is lodging a complaint to the Irish Human Rights Commission.

<snip>

It's the 21st Century and we have to stop this cr*p. Remember, your taxes. Remember, our educational system. Remember, we are not even asking people to become atheists we are just asking to stop this nonsense of forcing people to believe something ridiculous.

As far as I am concerned this is a Rosa Parks story and people need to stand up once and for all to this ridiculous nonsense.

pauldla

Do you have a link to the story itself?

MagicMarker

Page 7 main section of what?

Sulla Felix

If it was said to be on the 16th Oct, the school website said there was a prayer service to mark the start of the year. Now, being forced to attend a prayer service during school time, presumably when all staff were also attending and there wouldn't be anyone to supervise the student isn't particularly egregious. Unless they made him literally say the prayers under threat of sanction, or if it was outside hours and he was compelled to attend, I'm not entirely sure there's a problem.

Edit: Found the article. Todays Sunday Times. Not available for full viewing without sub.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1153663.ece

An athiest student has complained to the Irish Human Rights Commission (IHRC) that he was forced to attend a compulsory prayer service at his vocational education committee (VEC) school, breaching his human rights.

Nathan Young, a 16-year-old student at Borrisokane community college in Co Tipperary, demanded in a blog, letter and email to the school that the principal apologise and promise not to make religious events mandatory for students in the future. Chris Young, his father, said he supported his son’s decision.

Peregrinus

A quick trot around the website reveals that religious education is a core part of the curriculum (two periods a week), "Religious services take place throughout the year to celebrate special occasions in the church and school", the school has a chaplain and a dedicated oratory, there's a "Church of Ireland community representative" on the board of management (Canon Stephen Neill).

The school may be multi-denominational, but it plainly has a religious character. I think it's a bit unrealistic, to be honest, for this fellow to think he can attend such a school and never be exposed to any manifestation of religion.

im invisible

Rosa Parks? really??

mikemac1

Students from Borrisokane smashed up a bus just three weeks before
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81106545

Rosa Parks was probably not involved, you'd need to be a local to know that

The school got a lot of unwanted attention for something that was not even their fault so maybe the school wants everyone together to supervise them?

Leaving a few behind in school without supervision is asking for messing and at worst an accident and a claim, ca-ching

goose2005

Peregrinus wrote: »

The school may be multi-denominational, but it plainly has a religious character. I think it's a bit unrealistic, to be honest, for this fellow to think he can attend such a school and never be exposed to any manifestation of religion.

If he were Jewish, Muslim or Jehovah's Witness you can be sure they wouldn't have made him attend.

MagicMarker

Peregrinus wrote: »

A quick trot around the website reveals that religious education is a core part of the curriculum (two periods a week), "Religious services take place throughout the year to celebrate special occasions in the church and school", the school has a chaplain and a dedicated oratory, there's a "Church of Ireland community representative" on the board of management (Canon Stephen Neill).

The school may be multi-denominational, but it plainly has a religious character. I think it's a bit unrealistic, to be honest, for this fellow to think he can attend such a school and never be exposed to any manifestation of religion.

He's not complaining about being exposed to any manifestation of religion, he's complaining about being forced to go to a prayer service when he's not religious.

pauldla

More on the story here.

If the boy doesn't want to say his prayers, don't make him say his prayers. Let him sit in the classroom with a teacher and read. It would probably do the boy more good, anyhow. I shouldn't imagine they'd find it hard to find a teacher to volunteer to babysit him.

I wonder what the IHRC will make of it?

Dades

goose2005 wrote: »

If he were Jewish, Muslim or Jehovah's Witness you can be sure they wouldn't have made him attend.

I'm not sure you can. Wasn't Tipp one of the most catholic places in Ireland according to the census?

Katie C

Ok, Hi guys.. Im actually loving what yee have wrote so far, but my dear, Tim, who started this thread... You dont really know what youre on about, babe... I actually went to school at BCC.. Was a good member of the school community and took part in everything.. That young man who wrote to the Human Rights peeps.. Well, he actually took part in the service basically every year.. I just done the leaving cert and left the school.. Now he was a lovely child like and his brother was in my class.. they loved school shur.. Like what can I say.. Was a pretty amazing school community.. We went through everything down there.. When it rained outside you would be wet inside due to the leaks.. Borris is not really like any other school in the country.. its good craic like.. And we all still come out with good results.. Pretty good school if you know what I mean.. the principal works terribley hard to make sure we were happy in school so I actually don't know where this young lad is coming from complaining about the place.. In religon class, God wasnt really mentioned and shur there was even an atheist lad in my class and he took part in every class, giving his side to the story.. Then shur, the service every year, EVERYONE was included, doesnt matter what religon you are.. Be graaaand, like.. Shur most people didnt take part, maybe this lad didnt this year but like, all he had to do was sit there and just chat with the lads.. Have a bit of banter... The reason everyone goes is to be suervised.. Like shur the lad could go run off somewhere and hurt himself.. School be blamed like.. Not exactly fair on them if that did happen.. Shur, il finish up now.. Borris is actually a totes amazeballs school and we have the best school community ever so I wouldnt really go saying stuff like that.. thanks, bud..

Katie C

pauldla wrote: »

More on the story here.

If the boy doesn't want to say his prayers, don't make him say his prayers. Let him sit in the classroom with a teacher and read. It would probably do the boy more good, anyhow. I shouldn't imagine they'd find it hard to find a teacher to volunteer to babysit him.

I wonder what the IHRC will make of it?

Oh am, babe.. thing is Im a student teacher at the mo... And I don't want to be paid to babysit.. I've a higher qualification like..

Sarky

What?

jhegarty

Well that clears everything up.

endacl

Katie C wrote: »

Oh am, babe.. thing is Im a student teacher at the mo... And I don't want to be paid to babysit.. I've a higher qualification like..

A student teacher? Really? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you have a lot of work to do....

Canis Lupus

Katie C wrote: »

Oh am, babe.. thing is Im a student teacher at the mo... And I don't want to be paid to babysit.. I've a higher qualification like..

Not planning on teaching English I hope?

MagicMarker

Katie C wrote: »

Ok, Hi guys.. Im actually loving what yee have wrote so far, but my dear, Tim, who started this thread... You dont really know what youre on about, babe... I actually went to school at BCC.. Was a good member of the school community and took part in everything.. That young man who wrote to the Human Rights peeps.. Well, he actually took part in the service basically every year.. I just done the leaving cert and left the school.. Now he was a lovely child like and his brother was in my class.. they loved school shur.. Like what can I say.. Was a pretty amazing school community.. We went through everything down there.. When it rained outside you would be wet inside due to the leaks.. Borris is not really like any other school in the country.. its good craic like.. And we all still come out with good results.. Pretty good school if you know what I mean.. the principal works terribley hard to make sure we were happy in school so I actually don't know where this young lad is coming from complaining about the place.. In religon class, God wasnt really mentioned and shur there was even an atheist lad in my class and he took part in every class, giving his side to the story.. Then shur, the service every year, EVERYONE was included, doesnt matter what religon you are.. Be graaaand, like.. Shur most people didnt take part, maybe this lad didnt this year but like, all he had to do was sit there and just chat with the lads.. Have a bit of banter... The reason everyone goes is to be suervised.. Like shur the lad could go run off somewhere and hurt himself.. School be blamed like.. Not exactly fair on them if that did happen.. Shur, il finish up now.. Borris is actually a totes amazeballs school and we have the best school community ever so I wouldnt really go saying stuff like that.. thanks, bud..

Are ya shur like?

Katie C

endacl wrote: »

A student teacher? Really? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you have a lot of work to do....[/QUOTE

Look it, visit BCC..:) You'll see the type of amazing community down there.. You don't really know what youre talking about here.. yee are seeing one side of the story.. And when you go get your education degree, come back and comment on me..

mikemac1

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Not planning on teaching English I hope?

It does be how they do be speaking in Tipp shur

You should visit

Katie C

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Not planning on teaching English I hope?

Ah, nil me.. Is brea liom an gaeilge agus i mo thuarim fein, ta an todhchai go hiontach ar fad don gaelige..

Katie C

mikemac1 wrote: »

It does be how they do be speaking in Tipp shur

You should visit

Great part of the country shur..

Canis Lupus

mikemac1 wrote: »

It does be how they do be speaking in Tipp shur

You should visit

It's not often someone can convey an accent so convincingly through text. It's a special talent

Canis Lupus

Katie C wrote: »

Ah, nil me.. Is brea liom an gaeilge agus i mo thuarim fein, ta an todhchai go hiontach ar fad don gaelige..

No Spanish please. We talk the queens English in this country.

iPhone.

Katie C wrote: »

Ah, nil me.. Is brea liom an gaeilge agus i mo thuarim fein, ta an todhchai go hiontach ar fad don gaelige..

Excellent Katie, a silver star on your copy book - a gold star for when you improve and learn to use the fada also

Katie C

Canis Lupus wrote: »

No Spanish please. We talk the queens English in this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvw3O38tL10
An Gaeigle: an teanga is fearr!!!

Katie C

iPhone. wrote: »

Excellent Katie, a silver star on your copy book - a gold star for when you improve and learn to use the fada also

Oh, go raibh míle maith agut..

endacl

Katie C wrote: »

endacl wrote: »

A student teacher? Really? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you have a lot of work to do....[/QUOTE

Look it, visit BCC..:) You'll see the type of amazing community down there.. You don't really know what youre talking about here.. yee are seeing one side of the story.. And when you go get your education degree, come back and comment on me..

My education degree was completed years ago. Halfway through a second M.sc. at the moment. Is it ok to comment now?

endacl

Katie C wrote: »

Oh, go raibh míle maith agut..

agat...

iPhone.

Katie C wrote: »

Oh, go raibh míle maith agat..

Excellent - Gold star - spot the one subtle difference - lol

mathepac

Katie C wrote: »

... I've a higher qualification like..

So you must have attended the odd "ploughing match" in your day. Is that where you got your "higher qualification".

IME not even Borrisokane boggers express themselves like you babe? Are you from Borris-in-Ossory or Borrisoleigh or even Ballygobackwards?

darealtulip

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-atheist-student-says-school-forced-him-to-attend-prayer-meeting-175135681.html

Page 7 of the Sunday Irish Times

Well Done Nathan Young. My full respect for this 16 year old student.

TokenWhite

Rosa Parks? Seems more like a mountain being made out of a molehill. Lodging a complaint with the IHRC seems a bit drastic, surely the lad can see it from the perspective of school, he could hardly be allowed not to go. I know if that had happened at my own school, we'd all have played the atheist/non-religious card. Although in saying that, school services should be separated from the church, it'll help avoid these sorts of issues

MagicMarker

TokenWhite wrote: »

Rosa Parks? Seems more like a mountain being made out of a molehill. Lodging a complaint with the IHRC seems a bit drastic, surely the lad can see it from the perspective of school, he could hardly be allowed not to go. I know if that had happened at my own school, we'd all have played the atheist/non-religious card. Although in saying that, school services should be separated from the church, it'll help avoid these sorts of issues

When people start complaining about being forced to attend them, maybe something will be done about that.

Katie C

mathepac wrote: »

So you must have attended the odd "ploughing match" in your day. Is that where you got your "higher qualification".

IME not even Borrisokane boggers express themselves like you babe? Are you from Borris-in-Ossory or Borrisoleigh or even Ballygobackwards?

Actually never been to the ploughing.. Though, I'd love to tip down along at some stage.. :P And, by the way, from none of the above, babe..

krudler

Katie C wrote: »

Ok, Hi guys.. Im actually loving what yee have wrote so far, but my dear, Tim, who started this thread... You dont really know what youre on about, babe... I actually went to school at BCC.. Was a good member of the school community and took part in everything.. That young man who wrote to the Human Rights peeps.. Well, he actually took part in the service basically every year.. I just done the leaving cert and left the school.. Now he was a lovely child like and his brother was in my class.. they loved school shur.. Like what can I say.. Was a pretty amazing school community.. We went through everything down there.. When it rained outside you would be wet inside due to the leaks.. Borris is not really like any other school in the country.. its good craic like.. And we all still come out with good results.. Pretty good school if you know what I mean.. the principal works terribley hard to make sure we were happy in school so I actually don't know where this young lad is coming from complaining about the place.. In religon class, God wasnt really mentioned and shur there was even an atheist lad in my class and he took part in every class, giving his side to the story.. Then shur, the service every year, EVERYONE was included, doesnt matter what religon you are.. Be graaaand, like.. Shur most people didnt take part, maybe this lad didnt this year but like, all he had to do was sit there and just chat with the lads.. Have a bit of banter... The reason everyone goes is to be suervised.. Like shur the lad could go run off somewhere and hurt himself.. School be blamed like.. Not exactly fair on them if that did happen.. Shur, il finish up now.. Borris is actually a totes amazeballs school and we have the best school community ever so I wouldnt really go saying stuff like that.. thanks, bud..

jesus, its like facebook became self aware.

Lingua Franca

I'm sure she'll be a totes amazeballs teacher, babe... I'd let her near my kids for shur like...

[-0-]

My eyes are bleeding.

Dionysius2

Katie C wrote: »

Ok, Hi guys.. Im actually loving what yee have wrote so far, but my dear, Tim, who started this thread... You dont really know what youre on about, babe... I actually went to school at BCC.. Was a good member of the school community and took part in everything.. That young man who wrote to the Human Rights peeps.. Well, he actually took part in the service basically every year.. I just done the leaving cert and left the school.. Now he was a lovely child like and his brother was in my class.. they loved school shur.. Like what can I say.. Was a pretty amazing school community.. We went through everything down there.. When it rained outside you would be wet inside due to the leaks.. Borris is not really like any other school in the country.. its good craic like.. And we all still come out with good results.. Pretty good school if you know what I mean.. the principal works terribley hard to make sure we were happy in school so I actually don't know where this young lad is coming from complaining about the place.. In religon class, God wasnt really mentioned and shur there was even an atheist lad in my class and he took part in every class, giving his side to the story.. Then shur, the service every year, EVERYONE was included, doesnt matter what religon you are.. Be graaaand, like.. Shur most people didnt take part, maybe this lad didnt this year but like, all he had to do was sit there and just chat with the lads.. Have a bit of banter... The reason everyone goes is to be suervised.. Like shur the lad could go run off somewhere and hurt himself.. School be blamed like.. Not exactly fair on them if that did happen.. Shur, il finish up now.. Borris is actually a totes amazeballs school and we have the best school community ever so I wouldnt really go saying stuff like that.. thanks, bud..

Janorramean ?

Ellis Dee

For several of the years that I was suffering an "education" and frequent physical violence at the hands of the Screechin' Butchers (aka "Christian Brothers"), there was a Protestant (= Church of Ireland) boy in the same class as me. Every hour, on the hour, we all had to stand up and say a "Hail Mary", but our Protestant classmate remained seated and silent, and none of the teachers ever said anything. Presumably, his parents had some kind of agreement with the school and it all worked fine.:)

Wouldn't it be nice if all Catholic schools and their staffs could extend the same courtesy to atheists, who nowadays - fortunately - considerably outnumber Church of Ireland people in the Republic of Ireland? And one day, hopefully, reason will prevail and religious people will be in the minority and then they may be glad and appreciative when we tolerate them and allow them to cherish their beliefs, no matter how absurd we consider them to be.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The Big Red Button

Katie C wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvw3O38tL10
An Gaeigle: an teanga is fearr!!!

An Gaeigle?

Lingua Franca

Don't correct her, she "done" an education degree!

Zaph

OP, I've removed the contact details from your first post. If you want to orchestrate an e-mail campaign against the school in question, then please feel free to start up your own website and do so from there. However using Boards for this is not permitted, so please do not post anything similar again.

Tim Robbins

Katie C wrote: »

Ok, Hi guys.. Im actually loving what yee have wrote so far, but my dear, Tim, who started this thread... You dont really know what youre on about, babe... I actually went to school at BCC.. Was a good member of the school community and took part in everything.. That young man who wrote to the Human Rights peeps.. Well, he actually took part in the service basically every year.. I just done the leaving cert and left the school.. Now he was a lovely child like and his brother was in my class.. they loved school shur.. Like what can I say.. Was a pretty amazing school community.. We went through everything down there.. When it rained outside you would be wet inside due to the leaks.. Borris is not really like any other school in the country.. its good craic like.. And we all still come out with good results.. Pretty good school if you know what I mean.. the principal works terribley hard to make sure we were happy in school so I actually don't know where this young lad is coming from complaining about the place.. In religon class, God wasnt really mentioned and shur there was even an atheist lad in my class and he took part in every class, giving his side to the story.. Then shur, the service every year, EVERYONE was included, doesnt matter what religon you are.. Be graaaand, like.. Shur most people didnt take part, maybe this lad didnt this year but like, all he had to do was sit there and just chat with the lads.. Have a bit of banter... The reason everyone goes is to be suervised.. Like shur the lad could go run off somewhere and hurt himself.. School be blamed like.. Not exactly fair on them if that did happen.. Shur, il finish up now.. Borris is actually a totes amazeballs school and we have the best school community ever so I wouldnt really go saying stuff like that.. thanks, bud..

You are incoherent. The Hail Mary backwards makes more sense.

mark_79

I'm atheist but this kid sounds a right troublemaking precious little prat. A meeting in the principles office would have sufficed but it seems he's determined to grab his fifteen minutes. I'll bet he couldn't even offer a coherent argument in defence of his belief/non belief.

smokingman

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You are incoherent. The Hail Mary backwards makes more sense.

If this is the standard diction used by our student teachers, I think we may have more to worry about than the teaching of fairy tales as fact.

gerryo777

Peregrinus wrote: »

A quick trot around the website reveals that religious education is a core part of the curriculum (two periods a week), "Religious services take place throughout the year to celebrate special occasions in the church and school", the school has a chaplain and a dedicated oratory, there's a "Church of Ireland community representative" on the board of management (Canon Stephen Neill).

The school may be multi-denominational, but it plainly has a religious character. I think it's a bit unrealistic, to be honest, for this fellow to think he can attend such a school and never be exposed to any manifestation of religion.

Maybe he should attend a different school??
Or should every school employ someone on the off chance that they might have an atheist that might need supervision one day a year?

GarIT

mark_79 wrote: »

I'm atheist but this kid sounds a right troublemaking precious little prat. A meeting in the principles office would have sufficed but it seems he's determined to grab his fifteen minutes. I'll bet he couldn't even offer a coherent argument in defence of his belief/non belief.

To some people this is very serious, some people may be as passionately against religion as others are for it, everyone should be allocated a place to receive an education where they are not forced to take part in something which may be against their beliefs.

MagicMarker

mark_79 wrote: »

I'm atheist but this kid sounds a right troublemaking precious little prat. A meeting in the principles office would have sufficed but it seems he's determined to grab his fifteen minutes. I'll bet he couldn't even offer a coherent argument in defence of his belief/non belief.

Why would he need to defend his belief or non belief?

gerryo777

GarIT wrote: »

To some people this is very serious, some people may be as passionately against religion as others are for it, everyone should be allocated a place to receive an education where they are not forced to take part in something which may be against their beliefs.

Well then attend a school that teaches no religion instead of a multi-denominational one. Simples!

MagicMarker

gerryo777 wrote: »

Well then attend a non-denominational school instead of a multi-denominational one. Simples!

I see, perhaps you could let us know which schools in Tipperary, or in fact the entire country, are non-denominational? I think you may find they do not exist.