HEC: Munster vs Edinburgh, Sun 21 October 12:45pm

thomond2006

Munster:
15 Denis Hurley, 14 Doug Howlett (capt), 13 Casey Laulala, 12 James Downey, 11 Simon Zebo, 10 Ian Keatley, 9 Conor Murray,
8 Peter O'Mahony, 7 Sean Dougall, 6 Donnacha Ryan, 5 Paul O'Connell, 4 Donncha O'Callaghan, 3 BJ Botha, 2 Mick Sherry, 1 Dave Kilcoyne.

Replacements: 16 Damien Varley, 17 Marcus Horan, 18 Stephen Archer, 19 Billy Holland, 20 Paddy Butler, 21 Duncan Williams, 22 JJ Hanrahan, 23 Felix Jones.

Edinburgh:
15 Greig Tonks, 14 Lee Jones, 13 Nick De Luca, 12 Ben Atiga, 11 Tom Brown, 10 Gregor Hunter, 9 Richie Rees,
8 Netani Talei, 7 Stuart McInally, 6 David Denton, 5 Sean Cox, 4 Grant Gilchrist, 3 Geoff Cross, 2 Ross Ford, 1 John Yapp.

Replacements: 16 Andy Titterrell, 17 Robin Hislop, 18 Willem Nel, 19 Rob McAlpine, 20 Dimitri Basilaia, 21 Chris Leck, 22 Matt Scott, 23 Dougie Fife

Date: Sunday, October 21
Venue: Thomond Park, Limerick
Kick-off: 12.45 BST (11:45 GMT)
Referee: Wayne Barnes

Edinburgh travel to Thomond Park in a must win game for both themselves and Munster. Both sides will be bitterly disappointed from their showings last weekend, Edinburgh were embarrassed by Saracens at home while Munster lost a poor game in poor conditions to a poor Racing Métro side. (Repetition helps the word to sink in!). A loss at home is generally considered a death knell for qualification hopes, therefore Edinburgh have it all to do from here to proceed to the knockout stages. On the other hand, this means the pressure is somewhat off them and all eyes are on the performance of the home side.

Selections

Donncha O'Callaghan returns for Munster while Tim Visser is ruled out through injury.

There are 3 personnel changes to the Munster XV that started the match at Paris. Mike Sherry comes in for Damien Varley at hooker and Donncha O'Callaghan partners Paul O'Connell in the second row in place of Billy Holland. Ronan O'Gara's injury sees Ian Keatley move to flyhalf with Denis Hurley coming into the side at fullback. JJ Hanrahan could make his Heineken Cup debut from the bench that also sees the return of Felix Jones. At time of writing, Doug Howlett is a doubt.

Edinburgh have made six changes, in the backline Tonks and Atiga start while Hunter replaces Laidlaw at 10. Among the forwards Geoff Cross and Natani Talei start, Talei's return sees a reshuffle in the backrow with Ross Rennie not in the 23. Tim Visser failed a late fitness test in Limerick and has been replaced by Tom Brown with Dougie Fife added to the bench.

Battle of the 10s

Ian Keatley makes his first Heineken Cup start at flyhalf while 21 year old Gregor Hunter is set for his European debut.

This is a massive chance for Keatley to prove his credentials a long-term option in the 10 shirt. He has proven himself at Rabo level and this is the next step up in his development. His goal kicking wobbles have disappeared and he is playing with more confidence and belief.

Hunter has only played 348 minutes of Rabo rugby and has yet to play a minute this season, so he is being thrown into the deep end in terms of a level of intensity and match fitness. His only 80 minute appearance was ironically against Munster in September 2011, a game Edinburgh won 29-14. As he has yet to play this season, he is an unknown quantity and what he could bring to proceedings is uncertain.

Prediction:
Tim Visser's absence significantly blunts Edinburgh's try scoring capabilities and without Greig Laidlaw they are missing a key playmaker and goalkicker. Edinburgh's recent form will make their confidence brittle and a strong start from Munster could lead to an Edinburgh collapse. It is down to Munster to show their superior quality and not allow Edinburgh to hang on for too long. They may well need a bonus point win to keep the pressure on Saracens in the pool. The absence of key players will mean Edinburgh will struggle to challenge for the win.
Munster to win by 10-15 points.

---

Heineken Cup image from www.ercrugby.com, team logos from www.therugbyforum.com

Team lineups taken from Planet Rugby. Player images from Planet Rugby, Irish Independent and Edinburgh Rugby websites.

Everything else is my own work.

yimrsg

Can see Munster getting 5 points from this even if Dougie isn't there. If the weather is good and Murray has his head screwed on Munster could win out by 20 or 30 points. The Edinburgh backs look like lambs to the slaughter.

The one area where Edinburgh look threatening are the backrow. Talei and Denton are very good on their day and watch out for Basilia on the bench who does a good impression of Gorgodze.

the_blackstuff

Looking for a big munster performance tomorrow. We need to set a high intensity early and cut out the silly mistakes. Hopefully keatley will have a big game. We need to take a bonus point from this one. It would be great to be in a position to give jj 15 minutes tho maybe 80 minutes for keatley is more important right now. Also nice to see Wayne Barnes in limerick as well! Hopefully he wouldn't do his usual stunt and ping our scrum of the pitch

Aidric

What's with the entirely cringeworthy poll? A simple who do you think will win would suffice.

I am not as down as a lot of Munster supporters after last weeks game. Too many people discounted the atrocious conditions.

Given the run Edinburgh are on I expect Munster to win by 7 points or more.

Benny Cake

Anything less than 5 points should be deemed as failure, personally I think we'll do it.

Can't wait for my first trip to Thomond in over 12 months!!!

phog

yimrsg wrote: »

Can see Munster getting 5 points from this even if Dougie isn't there.

I thought Leinster were good for 5 points last week and listening to some of todays game on TodayFM I thought they'd get 5 points as well today, neither materialised and both games could have been lost.

Easy to win games on paper much harder to win them on the field.

The one area where Edinburgh look threatening are the backrow. Talei and Denton are very good on their day and watch out for Basilia on the bench who does a good impression of Gorgodze

If there back row is such a threat then how do you think we're going to get ball to the backs for us to score 4 tries? We've been poor at the breakdown this season and really miss Coughlan as a ball carrier.


We know we need to win, a BP would be great but go for the win first and worry about BPs later. Really looking forward to be back in Thomond for H/Cup rugby, even if it's a dreadful KO time.

totallegend

Without Visser and Laidlaw I think this is a foregone conclusion tbh. The only debate is margin of victory and I'd back Munster for a BP.

Fireball07

No

I really really hope we get a bonus point, I think we do need it.

But phog's right, have to get the win first. Need a lot more control than last week. Big game for Keatley, time to show what he's got. I expect DOC to make a difference and expecting a lot more from Downey and Laulala who were very very disappointing last week.

We have the better team, we're at home....need to turn that into a performance.

thomond2006

No

phog wrote: »

.
We know we need to win, a BP would be great but go for the win first and worry about BPs later. Really looking forward to be back in Thomond for H/Cup rugby, even if it's a dreadful KO time.

That's what put me off going. I was at Scarlets last year which had a similar kickoff time and it was pretty terrible. We forked out enough to go to Paris for a ****e game, don't think I could take another one!

yimrsg

phog wrote: »

I thought Leinster were good for 5 points last week and listening to some of todays game on TodayFM I thought they'd get 5 points as well today, neither materialised and both games could have been lost.

Easy to win games on paper much harder to win them on the field.

A win was all Leinster wanted yesterday. The bonus point would have been amazing but to get a BP away from home so soon in the competition with Scarlets looking to bounce back was highly unlikely. Expecting 5 points for each Leinster game is a fanciful and just media bluster, anyone who's watched Exeter and Scarlets matches knows just how tough they can be. 8/10 is a great return.

If there back row is such a threat then how do you think we're going to get ball to the backs for us to score 4 tries? We've been poor at the breakdown this season and really miss Coughlan as a ball carrier.


We know we need to win, a BP would be great but go for the win first and worry about BPs later. Really looking forward to be back in Thomond for H/Cup rugby, even if it's a dreadful KO time.

If you transplant the Edinburgh backrow into a decent side they'll do well. The problem for Edinburgh is that their pack isn't all that powerful to give the backrow a chance to shine and they're missing their 2 most important backs. Yapp for all his size isn't going to threaten Botha in the scrums. Infact himself and Cross usually gives away penalties. Ford is a decent player, Cox has good hands and Gilchrist is a tidy forward too so they should be solid at the lineouts. Rennie's omission is possibly a double edged sword. On his day he plays like Tipuric but he's had moments of extreme lunacy. Denton and Tialata aren't brilliant in the breakdown, they're more known for big hits and making runs.

Regarding their backs, there are serious doubts where any attacking threat and direction will come from with their withdrawals. Laidlaw is their general and a huge loss. Their centres are solid and workmanlike but shouldn't offer much attacking threat as they're usually dummy runners for Visser. If Munster attack the breakdown and get fast ball, they'll expose the weaknesses in the Edinburgh defence.

It's not a case of me trying to overhype Munster but rather show how impotent this Edinburgh 15 are and if Munster play like they can they can easily get 5 points from this encounter.

irishbucsfan

Munster fans need to stop thinking about bonus points before the game even starts. Just get them out on the field and see what they're like first. They're hurting after a tough beating from Sarries, they might play the game of their lives.

I think it'll be an arm wrestle. Their backs are decent enough.

clappyhappy

Really looking forward to this game, OH is from Edinburgh so one of us will have the bragging rights. Looks like a great day for the match, thomond here we come

phog

Lovely morning in Limerick, sun is shining brightly so hopefully, it will be a dry day and good for rugby and the fans.

Nervous about the game but confident we should win. Hope Barnes doesn't turn it into a penalty and TMO fest.

G'wan Munster

phog

yimrsg wrote: »

A win was all Leinster wanted yesterday. The bonus point would have been amazing but to get a BP away from home so soon in the competition with Scarlets looking to bounce back was highly unlikely. Expecting 5 points for each Leinster game is a fanciful and just media bluster, anyone who's watched Exeter and Scarlets matches knows just how tough they can be. 8/10 is a great return.

You're having a laugh, are you seriously suggesting that Leinster were never capable of scoring more than the one try against Exeter and Scarlets. Because that's all they have scored, btw, I'm not knocking Leinster I'm just making the point the game is only ever played on the field not on the team sheets.

You talk of a bounce back from the Scarlets but dismiss a bounce back from Edinburgh. Munster have never played Edinburgh in the H/C before and as we saw last year Bradley puts huge stake on the H/cup so I wouldn't be so quick to write off Edinburgh like Toulouse did last year in the Q/F.

I'll take a BP win today but I'll also take a win, to be honest I'd be happy with a performance, a near 100% performance and I'd be bery happy.

Fishooks12

No

Hoping for an 80 minute performance

.ak

No

I know it's hard, but can we try and keep Leinster out of this? I just turns into the usual crap....

Is Howlett fit to play?

Foxtrol

Quietest build up I can remember to a Munster HC game in a good while.

With Edinburgh without who I'd consider to be their two best players, anything less than a bonus point win will be a big disappointment for Munster.

thomond2006

No

Foxtrol wrote: »

Quietest build up I can remember to a Munster HC game in a good while.

With Edinburgh without who I'd consider to be their two best players, anything less than a bonus point win will be a big disappointment for Munster.

There's no fear of a loss hence the lack of hype/activity.

Hersheys

Foxtrol wrote: »

Quietest build up I can remember to a Munster HC game in a good while.

With Edinburgh without who I'd consider to be their two best players, anything less than a bonus point win will be a big disappointment for Munster.

Bit strange that there are still tickets available for the game

thomond2006

No

Hersheys wrote: »

Bit strange that there are still tickets available for the game

If that's a continuing trend it could really hurt MRSC memberships along with season ticket purchases.

phog

.ak wrote: »

I know it's hard, but can we try and keep Leinster out of this? I just turns into the usual crap....

Is Howlett fit to play?

Apologies was just trying to point out BP wins aren't won on paper.

At the ground now and the pitch looks super, sunny day, slight chill and wind blowing across the field com city side towards LIT. The making of a great game.

Fishooks12

No

Dougie good to go I think!

irishbucsfan

Howlett is key. He doesn't have to be 100%, he just has to stop Visser.

Edit, No Visser? How did I miss that!

thomond2006

No

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Howlett is key. He doesn't have to be 100%, he just has to stop Visser.

He'll have an easy time doing that considering Visser isn't playing.

Fishooks12

No

Visser is a huge loss. He did run in 3 against us the rabo a month ago!

beertons

Go on Munster.

liammur

Hersheys wrote: »

Bit strange that there are still tickets available for the game

Munster Rugby were down in the crescent trying to sell tickets yesterday.
Shows the effect of the depression/recession in Limerick I suppose.

ssaye

Weak enough glasgow, munster should be fine

budhabob

No

ssaye wrote: »

Weak enough glasgow, munster should be fine

Shame we're playing Edinburgh.

irishbucsfan

ssaye wrote: »

Weak enough glasgow, munster should be fine

I thought they were quite good on Friday!

Anatidaephobia

No

Paul O'Connell: Big Ginger Monster.

budhabob

No

Superb clearance by keatley.

Anatidaephobia

No

Keatley Penalty 3-0.

ssaye

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I thought they were quite good on Friday!

damn hangover ha

Aidric

Boom. What a hit.

Anatidaephobia

No

Scrappy so far.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

Scrappy so far.

5 penalties in 10 minutes

Blackheath

Keatley has been tidy so far

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

5 penalties in 10 minutes

Barnes doing a good job though. Teams themselves are sloppy.

irishbucsfan

Unreal!

SuprSi

Wow, what a drive!!

Hersheys

Some defence from Munster there!

Anatidaephobia

No

HOLY ****

budhabob

No

That was immense.

Foxtrol

Love to see that kick from a wider angle. DOC had to have been a mile in front of the kicker or he has been hiding that pace for years.

Tomtom364

No

what a F***ing drive!!!

CIARAN_BOYLE

a bunch of munster players picking Talei off the back of the scrum over his own line

Blackheath

Far F***s to Murray there

irishbucsfan

Foxtrol wrote: »

Love to see that kick from a wider angle. DOC had to have been a mile in front of the kicker or he has been hiding that pace for years.

Was quite a shallow kick. Just no-one around to beat him to it.

jamiedav2011

Nice there from Dougall and was it Murray also?

Kilcoyne is a real prospect, could be an excellent backup to Healy for Ireland.

Hopefully Deccie gives him and Zebo gametime in the AIs.

Fishooks12

No

Some drive!

Very good start