brook v saldivia

supersean1999

looking forward to seeing has brook improved , i dont know much about saldivia,has anybody seen him ?? im presuming he must to a good test , also it cant be long until jamie mc donnell gets a crack at a world title

Underground

Haven't seen much of Saldivia but i do know he was stopped comprehensively by Said Ouali, who was himself well beaten by Carson Jones. I know that doesn't count for sh*t for the fight tonight but i reckon it should be a relatively straightforward win for brook.

Jayob10

seems like Brook is constantly in "world title eliminators"

good fighter but definately needs to step it up now in terms of opposition. He is Sky's new golden goose but nearly came a cropper last time out when he ran out of gas half way through the bout.

Henno30

Is Brook fighting the winner of Alexander/Bailey if he wins this?

Dick phelan

My god is there a more protected fighter then Brook. When is he going to step up ffs whats this his 3rd title eliminator he was offered a chance to fight bradley and declined saying he wanted to go the IBF root what a load of sh1t a world title is a world title, i suppose him going that root wouldn't be the fact that the weakest champion at the weight is Randall Bailey who is the IBF champion. Brook knows he would get destroyed by Bradley or Pac and so is trying to win a world title the easiest way possible. I mean can anybody name even one decent fighter the guy has fought in his entire career

Henno30

Dick phelan wrote: »

he was offered a chance to fight bradley and declined saying he wanted to go the IBF root

When was this?

Dick phelan

Henno30 wrote: »

When was this?

Not sure of the exact date but he was on ringside with khan a few weeks back and they asked him why he turned it down and he said he and his team want to go the IBF root

Henno30

Dick phelan wrote: »

Not sure of the exact date but he was on ringside with khan a few weeks back and they asked him why he turned it down and he said he and his team want to go the IBF root

Fu*king hell, what an excuse

If I was his manager I wouldn't let him in Bradley either, a huge step up in class from his current resume. Isn't this nearly always the way with British fighters anyway? Records padded to the last, topped with a few big names that are almost finished, and then across the water to be beaten by the top guys over there.*


*If they're lucky. Make the move too soon and some medicore contender gets there first.

supersean1999

Henno30 wrote: »

Fu*king hell, what an excuse

If I was his manager I wouldn't let him in Bradley either, a huge step up in class from his current resume. Isn't this nearly always the way with British fighters anyway? Records padded to the last, topped with a few big names that are almost finished, and then across the water to be beaten by the top guys over there.*


*If they're lucky. Make the move too soon and some medicore contender gets there first.

in fairness hearn has said all along they wanted to get him the mandatory shot at the ibf better terms i guess, alexander should be next, thats hardly simple is it

Dick phelan

Henno30 wrote: »

Fu*king hell, what an excuse

If I was his manager I wouldn't let him in Bradley either, a huge step up in class from his current resume. Isn't this nearly always the way with British fighters anyway? Records padded to the last, topped with a few big names that are almost finished, and then across the water to be beaten by the top guys over there.*


*If they're lucky. Make the move too soon and some medicore contender gets there first.

Yeah Brook is the typical sky hype job make him out to be the next big thing as he beats nobodys and then when he does step up in class he gets badly exposed for the ovverated fighter he is. If Brook does win a world title it will be in no way against the best in the division. PS i would fancy even class jaw khan to beat Kell

Underground

Henno30 wrote: »

Fu*king hell, what an excuse

If I was his manager I wouldn't let him in Bradley either, a huge step up in class from his current resume. Isn't this nearly always the way with British fighters anyway? Records padded to the last, topped with a few big names that are almost finished, and then across the water to be beaten by the top guys over there.*


*If they're lucky. Make the move too soon and some medicore contender gets there first.

I agree.I think Brook would have been mad to take the Bradley fight.

Too big a step up up in class and also with Bob Arum sniffing around Bradley, any decision made by the judges would likely go against Kell.

Dick phelan

Underground wrote: »

I agree.I think Brook would have been mad to take the Bradley fight.

Too big a step up up in class and also with Bob Arum sniffing around Bradley, any decision made by the judges would likely go against Kell.

True the decision might go against Brook But looking at him against Jones the guy did not seem like a world class fighter at all not someone any of the world champs would be worried about fighting anyway

Dick phelan

Who was the guy who won the fight just before the mcdonell fight was his fifth fight i think. Anways just wondering because he looked to be a real prospect and a fighter to watch for the future

Underground

Dick phelan wrote: »

True the decision might go against Brook But looking at him against Jones the guy did not seem like a world class fighter at all not someone any of the world champs would be worried about fighting anyway

yeah true, he is definitely a Sky hype job. I would fancy him to beat Bailey though. IBF belt is definitely the most winnable in the division.I don't think he'd stand a chance against Bradley regardless of whether the fight is in England or the States.

I actually think if Brook's last fight was in the states he probably would have lost by majority decision.

About your question there, Kal Yafai was it?

Dick phelan

Underground wrote: »

yeah true, he is definitely a Sky hype job. I would fancy him to beat Bailey though. IBF belt is definitely the most winnable in the division.I don't think he'd stand a chance against Bradley regardless of whether the fight is in England or the States.

I actually think if Brook's last fight was in the states he probably would have lost by majority decision.

About your question there, Kal Yafai was it?

Yeah IBF is by far the easiest to win and yeah maybe he could beat Bailey but i just dont see him ever being a top world class fighter like he is made out to be. On the Jones fighter i think Brook just about deserved the win but it was very close a true world class fighter does not scrap a win against a fighter like Carson Jones

Henno30

The size difference in this McDonnell fight is a bit ridiculous. Zamora has been game so far to be fair to him though.

supersean1999

Henno30 wrote: »

The size difference in this McDonnell fight is a bit ridiculous. Zamora has been game so far to be fair to him though.

mc donnell has feather fists, this buck was stopped 5 times in lower weights, disappointed in mc donnell

Dick phelan

supersean1999 wrote: »

mc donnell has feather fists, this buck was stopped 5 times in lower weights, disappointed in mc donnell

Yeah the lack of power i think will hurt mc donell in the future when he fights the top guys really he should be stopping this guy

Henno30

He's in the 'big time' now after struggling to put away this little flyweight. A 'superb performance' :rolleyes:

supersean1999

he hit him clean so often i was suprised it went past 3

Henno30

Is Santa Cruz the IBF titlist any good?

Jayob10

World titles don't really mean anything at welterweight to be honest. You can be a "world champion" but you will always be behind some of the P4P best.

Its a bit silly claiming to be a world champ in the same division as Pacman and Mayweather.

Paulie Malignaggi is a welterweight world champ FFS.

Saying all of that, the real reason we don't get to see the top fights is because the promoters screw things up by adding lots of conditions. So if you accept a world title fight and you win, you have to pay some of your purse to the loser's promoter, you have to guarantee a rematch and if you win that you may even be tied to the losers promoter for a few fights.

These are just examples of the "options" of course, but its really that ridiculous.

Its a mugs game really.

Henno30

Jayob10 wrote: »

World titles don't really mean anything at welterweight to be honest. You can be a "world champion" but you will always be behind some of the P4P best.

Its a bit silly claiming to be a world champ in the same division as Pacman and Mayweather.

Paulie Malignaggi is a welterweight world champ FFS.

None of that would stop the Sky hype machine. They'd talk up Mayweather and Pacquiao fights and feed him cans as long as they could.

Jayob10

Sky will have you believe that Saldivia is some kind of threat, a world champ in waiting himself.

The only people who see this as an IBF eliminator are Sky

Saldivia won't be getting any title shot in fairness, hes not even top 30 in the division. Its not liked two high ranked guys in a shoot out.

Its a confidence booster for Brook owing to the struggle he had in his last "eliminator".

Underground

I have €5 on Brook to win by KO/TKO by round 7-9, fingers crossed

Jayob10

Brook to win by a stoppage inside 4 rounds

this will end early, this fight is an exercise to make him look good and the opponent has been chosen with that in mind.

Henno30

Jayob10 wrote: »

Sky will have you believe that Saldivia is some kind of threat, a world champ in waiting himself.

The only people who see this as an IBF eliminator are Sky

Saldivia won't be getting any title shot in fairness, hes not even top 30 in the division. Its not liked two high ranked guys in a shoot out.

Its a confidence booster for Brook owing to the struggle he had in his last "eliminator".

That's probably the most annoying thing about sky fights, the hour long build-up of an opponent who generally has never won a big fight in his life. On the odd occasion that they have it's usually the guts of ten years ago.

Jayob10

Pure joke, where did they pull this bum out of

knocked out with an average jab

Henno30

FFS

Another night of world class boxing on sky.

Dick phelan

Jayob10 wrote: »

Pure joke, where did they pull this bum out of

knocked out with an average jab

Salvido was awful my god IBF eliminator my arse the constant picking of weak opponents is making me dislike Brook

Jayob10

Has anyone mentioned how "disappointing" the opponent was?

This is incredible stuff Sky are peddaling, they are clearly looking to make a Khan v Brook fight.

Professional boxing is an absolute joke, its no wonder damn all people watch it

Big Ears

Henno30 wrote: »

Is Santa Cruz the IBF titlist any good?

Have a look for yourself. IMO yes, yes he is, a vicious body puncher, physically very strong and tough and a tight defence. Tough task for anyone at the weight.

supersean1999

christ there is some cranky ******** in this thread

MD1990

Dick phelan wrote: »

Salvido was awful my god IBF eliminator my arse the constant picking of weak opponents is making me dislike Brook

Saldiva won his last 8 fights by KO & is ranked 3 by IBF
Brook was just class tonight imo

Henno30

MD1990 wrote: »

Saldiva won his last 8 fights by KO & is ranked 3 by IBF
Brook was just class tonight imo

What would you rank as the high point of that streak? The 25-17-4 Alzugaray? Maybe the 33-15-3 Carlos Adan Jerez?

supersean1999

Henno30 wrote: »

What would you rank as the high point of that streak? The 25-17-4 Alzugaray? Maybe the 33-15-3 Carlos Adan Jerez?

whats your opinion on brook then?????

Jayob10

Brook has skills, he was seriously tested by a decent if not great Carson Jones.

We still don't know much about him, other than that he struggled with his only somewhat decent but legit opponent.

The main issue is with Sky and the card in particular. You would imagine they would have learned from the Khan debacle and the days of feeding propects bums only to see them lose to the best.

Hyping Saldivia as a real test, a genuine threat, "Kell's toughest opponent to date" according to the dashing bullsh*t artist Eddie Hearn.

As I said earlier, this latest " final eliminator" (his third by my count) was just an exercise in re-polishing and re-packaging Brook, the opponent was never a threat and there wasn't a single mention of how Saldivia was incredibly poor. The guy looked like a club fighter who was afraid of taking a jab.

Yet we are expected to believe this was a huge victory.

Henno30

supersean1999 wrote: »

whats your opinion on brook then?????

Decent prospect, very much unproven, ludicrously over-hyped.

Dick phelan

Henno30 wrote: »

Decent prospect, very much unproven, ludicrously over-hyped.

Being honest i would not really see him as being that much of a prospect. The guy is 26 so really should be close enough to his prime a prospect i would think of more as a guy several years away from his but Brook i don't think will honesly get much better then he is now

All_in_Flynn

I have to laugh, I really do! Are people on here knocking Brook because he is English? I dunno, it just seems that way that way to me. It was the same with Kahn and Hatton prior to that. People looking for any excuse to have a go. Could be wrong. But it just seems that way to me.

He is an exciting fighter and on the way up but people (not just here) are having a pop at him. Give the lad a chance ffs.

People going on about his padded record etc. Well of course its gonna look padded. The english domestic scene is hardly stacked full of talent. He is starting to move up in class now and we will find out soon if he is the real deal.

IMO Brook is a real talent. He looked exceptional against Carson Jones for the first 6 rounds or so and then gassed. He didn't wilt though and came through it.

He has skills imo. Has a decent chin from what I'v seen, excellent reflexes and can punch. I think he will beat Alexander handily enough and has too much power for Kahn. I'd also fancy him to beat Bradley if I'm being honest after he gets another 1 or 2 fights against top level competition under his belt.

Instead of looking for reasons to knock him, hold judgement until we see how he gets on in his next fight. It will almost certainly be a serious step up in class but I reckon he will have the answers.

Jayob10

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

I have to laugh, I really do! Are people on here knocking Brook because he is English? I dunno, it just seems that way that way to me. It was the same with Kahn and Hatton prior to that. People looking for any excuse to have a go. Could be wrong. But it just seems that way to me.

He is an exciting fighter and on the way up but people (not just here) are having a pop at him. Give the lad a chance ffs.

People going on about his padded record etc. Well of course its gonna look padded. The english domestic scene is hardly stacked full of talent. He is starting to move up in class now and we will find out soon if he is the real deal.

IMO Brook is a real talent. He looked exceptional against Carson Jones for the first 6 rounds or so and then gassed. He didn't wilt though and came through it.

He has skills imo. Has a decent chin from what I'v seen, excellent reflexes and can punch. I think he will beat Alexander handily enough and has too much power for Kahn. I'd also fancy him to beat Bradley if I'm being honest after he gets another 1 or 2 fights against top level competition under his belt.

Instead of looking for reasons to knock him, hold judgement until we see how he gets on in his next fight. It will almost certainly be a serious step up in class but I reckon he will have the answers.

It's not an anti- English bias, rather its a pop at the sport.

Out of interest, what have you seen to make you think he could possibly beat Bradley or Alexander?

He has fought nothing but bums in fairness.

I actually like Brook, I think he is a decent fighter, fundamentally sound. My gripe was with the nonsense sky were spouting making it out to be a huge win. Nobody mentioned the fact he had 2 previous world title eliminators.

Last nights fight was a step down in class from his previous fight where he struggled against a solid if unspectacular ranked fighter.

He is 26 year old, he is no novice.

Sky are trying to position him for a world title so he can possibly defend it against more bums pretty much.

All_in_Flynn

Jayob10 wrote: »

It's not an anti- English bias, rather its a pop at the sport.

Out of interest, what have you seen to make you think he could possibly beat Bradley or Alexander?

He has fought nothing but bums in fairness.

I actually like Brook, I think he is a decent fighter, fundamentally sound. My gripe was with the nonsense sky were spouting making it out to be a huge win. Nobody mentioned the fact he had 2 previous world title eliminators.

Last nights fight was a step down in class from his previous fight where he struggled against a solid if unspectacular ranked fighter.

He is 26 year old, he is no novice.

Sky are trying to position him for a world title so he can possibly defend it against more bums pretty much.

My post wasn't directly aimed at you. It's just a trend I'v noticed on here the last number of years.

Obviously I'm not basing my opinion that he would beat the above mentioned fighters on anything with real substance. Its just an opinion based on what I'v seen of Brook and the other two. I think he ticks alot of box's to be a top level boxer.

I don't think Alexander is anything special from what I'v seen of him. A good fighter most definitely but nothing beyond that. Bradley is obviously a step up again but I think after another couple of bouts, Brook has the ability to beat him aswell. I think kahn beats Bradley too for what its worth. Styles etc.

I agree with you that his opponent last night was a step down in class. Like I said previously, we will see what Brook is all about in his next fight or 2. He has answered every question asked of him to date though.

What else do you expect Sky to do though. Of course they are going to try and build a fight up to be more than it is. They are in the business of making money at the end of the day and its the same with any network in the world. Nothing to be getting up in arms about.

Scanlas The 2nd

I think brook is an excellent boxer, I'm not sure he's good enough to beat the top guys though, he has a short reach which could be his downfall.

Jayob10

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

My post wasn't directly aimed at you. It's just a trend I'v noticed on here the last number of years.

Obviously I'm not basing my opinion that he would beat the above mentioned fighters on anything with real substance. Its just an opinion based on what I'v seen of Brook and the other two. I think he ticks alot of box's to be a top level boxer.

I don't think Alexander is anything special from what I'v seen of him. A good fighter most definitely but nothing beyond that. Bradley is obviously a step up again but I think after another couple of bouts, Brook has the ability to beat him aswell. I think kahn beats Bradley too for what its worth. Styles etc.

I agree with you that his opponent last night was a step down in class. Like I said previously, we will see what Brook is all about in his next fight or 2. He has answered every question asked of him to date though.

What else do you expect Sky to do though. Of course they are going to try and build a fight up to be more than it is. They are in the business of making money at the end of the day and its the same with any network in the world. Nothing to be getting up in arms about.

Sky were supposedly keen to be seen to be making a stand against mismatches on PPV and the like. Hearn was seen as the man to put on entertaining well matched and balanced cards, supposedly a welcome change from Frank Warren previously flying in punchbags from Latvia and Lithuania etc....

Hearn is not different from the rest in my opinion.

As for Sky being in the business to make money and build a fight up to be more than it is? Thats what they were supposedly trying to get away from.
At least in the days of hyping Hatton we were seeing good opposition to balance the ridiculous overhype of Hatton as a P4P great.

Last night we saw Brook (a 26 year old perennial contender) fighting in his 3rd eliminator, fighting against an absolute no mark, and they spun it as a monumental test that was passed with flying colours. Its insulting to boxing fans.

Its Eddie Hearn's job to create the hype, its Sky's job to call it as it is. Not once did any of the analyst cast doubts on Saldivia's ability.

At least on HBO they balance their bias by actually naming opponents that the public will deem somewhat credible.

The fight beforhand was even worse, hyping Jamie McDonnell in a bout against a blown up flyweight, and constantly reminding us that the guy was a real threat. Get real.

All_in_Flynn

Jayob10 wrote: »

Sky were supposedly keen to be seen to be making a stand against mismatches on PPV and the like. Hearn was seen as the man to put on entertaining well matched and balanced cards, supposedly a welcome change from Frank Warren previously flying in punchbags from Latvia and Lithuania etc....

Hearn is not different from the rest in my opinion.

As for Sky being in the business to make money and build a fight up to be more than it is? Thats what they were supposedly trying to get away from.
At least in the days of hyping Hatton we were seeing good opposition to balance the ridiculous overhype of Hatton as a P4P great.

Last night we saw Brook (a 26 year old perennial contender) fighting in his 3rd eliminator, fighting against an absolute no mark, and they spun it as a monumental test that was passed with flying colours. Its insulting to boxing fans.

Its Eddie Hearn's job to create the hype, its Sky's job to call it as it is. Not once did any of the analyst cast doubts on Saldivia's ability.

At least on HBO they balance their bias by actually naming opponents that the public will deem somewhat credible.

The fight beforhand was even worse, hyping Jamie McDonnell in a bout against a blown up flyweight, and constantly reminding us that the guy was a real threat. Get real.

Yep, fair enough, I can agree with most of that.

Dick phelan

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

My post wasn't directly aimed at you. It's just a trend I'v noticed on here the last number of years.

Obviously I'm not basing my opinion that he would beat the above mentioned fighters on anything with real substance. Its just an opinion based on what I'v seen of Brook and the other two. I think he ticks alot of box's to be a top level boxer.

I don't think Alexander is anything special from what I'v seen of him. A good fighter most definitely but nothing beyond that. Bradley is obviously a step up again but I think after another couple of bouts, Brook has the ability to beat him aswell. I think kahn beats Bradley too for what its worth. Styles etc.

I agree with you that his opponent last night was a step down in class. Like I said previously, we will see what Brook is all about in his next fight or 2. He has answered every question asked of him to date though.

What else do you expect Sky to do though. Of course they are going to try and build a fight up to be more than it is. They are in the business of making money at the end of the day and its the same with any network in the world. Nothing to be getting up in arms about.

I am not haveing a go at him for being English its because of the level of opposition he fights after all the fights he has had. Carl Froch is English yet he is one of the fighters i respect most in the sport for never doing things the easy way. If an Irish fighter did what Brook is doing i would be talking just the same eg Hyland fighting nothing but cans in every fight

MD1990

Brook is fighting these fighters because he & his team have said they didn't think he was ready for a World Title fight
i can see him beating Alexandor

Underground

Brook and Saldivia posing before the fight.

Henno30

Brook vs Alexander deal has been reached for Jan 19th.

http://www.boxingscene.com/alexander-brook-deal-reached-garcia-judah-moves--59198

gene_tunney

The talent at light welter and welter right now is amazing.

Henno30

Henno30 wrote: »

Brook vs Alexander deal has been reached for Jan 19th.

http://www.boxingscene.com/alexander-brook-deal-reached-garcia-judah-moves--59198

Alexander's picked up an injury. Fight's postponed.