This happened driving to work today..

coup1917

As I was driving to work this morning, I was coming up to a roundabout with two lanes - the outside lane is a bus lane that just finishes about 10 metres before the roundabout & the inside one is where the majority of traffic would be.

So I decided to pull into the left lane as we were all nearly stopped, checking no bus was coming - and I hold my hands up, I should have indicated but didn't.

So I get the horn blown by a motorbike who has come up behind - not always easy to see in the dark pouring rain at 7.00 in the morning.

Anyway, we go through the roundabout, and he cuts in front of me straight away to show his feelings. And 100 meters later we are stopped at a red light. He stops the motorbike, puts down the stand, gets off the bike and walks back to me in the car behind him.

He comes up to the drivers side and as I didn't put down the window ( i had decided in an instant, I wasnt getting out of the car & I wasnt going to engage with him in the middle of a busy junction ) he just banged on the drivers window. At least it was left at that & he went back to the bike.

Just wondered if anyone has ever experienced anything like that, or even retaliated to being provoked...?
I've been behind the wheel on countless occasions & been on the receiving end of other drivers, but no matter how aggravated I'd get, I don't think i'd ever get out of the car and approach someone..

Tallon

You are both idiots!

Blazer

You'd tend to get that from motorcyclists. And to be honest I wouldn't blame them really. Most car drivers find it very hard to judge motorist speeds etc and often pull out in front of them etc and since they have very little protection tend to be more severely injured in crashes.

mickdw

Tbh I would be ripping if someone in a car pulled in front of me in that manner specially if I was on a bike in bad conditions.
By the sound of it, you have no idea where the bike was so it may have been a near miss.

GavMan

I have to side with you OP.

No matter how PO'd someone is, they shouldn't approach you and strike your car. Those gloves proper bike gloves (if he was wearing them) can be quite hard and heavy. They could have cracked the window and where would we be then.

But on the other hand, it was a bit cowardly not to open the window enough to apologise to the chap, since you nearly put him in A&E

jayok

Ok, let's put this in perspective - both parties made mistakes today.

From your POV: You made a simple mistake and didn't see the biker coming up your inside left. Also, you didn't indicate. This started to turn nasty with road rage.

From the biker POV: He (assuming him) was in the left lane, lights on (I assume) and someone in a car nearly hit him. If hit, this would have potentially left him with some injury. He got a fright and knew he was in the right. His blood boiled as your simple mistake could have cost him dearly. His mistake was to retaliate and escalate the issue, turning this to road rage.

Now as a biker and a car driver I can say you will make mistakes while using both machines - only problem is being on a bike you're gonna lose.

TBH - two people make mistakes today, learn from it, be glad noone was hurt and move on.

cojomo2

+1 op not having a go but I can understand the biker. I use to ride a bike and will be again shortly, while I'd never really get out of my car I would without hesitation get off my bike to have a word with someone who could have killed me due to their carelessness ..

The odds are if you get out he sh1ts himself.

cojomo2

RoverJames wrote: »

The odds are if you get out he sh1ts himself.

Depends how big and mean looking the OP is:D

Kenny Logins

On another forum somebody is ranting on about a 'stupid cagers', I'm off to find that thread.

intellectual dosser

GavMan wrote: »

I have to side with you OP.

No matter how PO'd someone is, they shouldn't approach you and strike your car. Those gloves proper bike gloves (if he was wearing them) can be quite hard and heavy. They could have cracked the window and where would we be then.

But on the other hand, it was a bit cowardly not to open the window enough to apologise to the chap, since you nearly put him in A&E

From what I gather the motorbike was driving in the bus lane?

Apologise? Fcuk him!

It is amazing how different our behavior is on the roads. That Road Safety add showing people walking around bumping into and abusing each other summed it up.

Kenny Logins

TBH, if I had a crash helmet, boots, gloves, and leathers on, I'd get out of the car.

jayok

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apologise? Fcuk him!

And this is how road rage and issues escalate. What would that really achieve?

Not really, the second you get out he's thinking his tough man gig isn't working, if he's genuinely handy he knows that someone not big and mean looking can hand him his arse, by staying in the car you're more or less being intimidated, best to be out of the car before he has the bike on the stand, than see what he has to say, be polite of course.

intellectual dosser

jayok wrote: »

And this is how road rage and issues escalate. What would that really achieve?

I don't mean get out of the car and start having intercourse with the guy.

I'm simply saying I wouldn't apologise as someone suggested.

tipptopper

Tallon wrote: »

You are both idiots!

It must have taken you half the morning to think of that reply tallon did it? Very incisive stuff from you altogether :rolleyes:

pom pom snaz peeler

for sure bikers get hurt from foolish drivers but this guy was lucky he didnt get a kicking. hes well protected by his helmet but if he approached my car he may not be walking away!

jayok

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I'm simply saying I wouldn't apologise as someone suggested.

I get that, but given you'd (if you were the OP) made the mistake, you have the potential to diffuse the situation right away by a simple apology? Why escalate it to no-ones benefit?

Odysseus

OP if you checked for a bus, how come you did not see the bike, he did not come out of nowhere. I have gone back to cars, though as I think on it now it has generally been to tell the person to get off their phone. Most of the time I'm cut up like that a phone is in use.

However, my point is I have walked back to many cars, but never attacked anybody. If you had rolled down your window and spoke to the chap it may have ended there.


Edit: I have just read the posts stating what "they would do if a biker approached their car" Well I have never encountered that, in fact I have had any driver I have approached apologise, then again their where in the wrong.

djimi

GavMan wrote: »

But on the other hand, it was a bit cowardly not to open the window enough to apologise to the chap, since you nearly put him in A&E

Are you kidding me? There would be no way in hell I would open the window even a crack to someone who approached me in such a manner; regardless of what I did to them. Its one thing being sorry but christ knows what this guy would have done in the heat of the moment. Cowerdly it may be, but nothing happened and the guy is alright; no sense putting yourself in potential danger...

djimi

Odysseus wrote: »

However, my point is I have walked back to many cars, but never attacked anybody. If you had rolled down your window and spoke to the chap it may have ended there.

Or he might have thrown a punch/produced a knife/tried to drag the OP out of the car etc...

Quagmire77

Not indicating to go left is the source of your problem. The amount of people I encounter on a daily basis that think indicating is beneath them. Really grinds my gears!!

07Lapierre

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I don't mean get out of the car and start having intercourse with the guy.

I'm simply saying I wouldn't apologise as someone suggested.

:eek:

kingtut

coup1917 wrote: »

I should have indicated but didn't.

The amount of people I meet on the roads who do not indicate is incredible. I am getting seriously pissed off with people who think it is ok to suddenly move into my lane without any warning whatsoever. As for those who insist on driving up my ass !!! Well I'll save that for another day.

At least the OP can admit that they were wrong

intellectual dosser

jayok wrote: »

I get that, but given you'd (if you were the OP) made the mistake, you have the potential to diffuse the situation right away by a simple apology? Why escalate it to no-ones benefit?

Both guys made a mistake.

You think that one should apologise while the other bangs on his window in the middle of a public road?

It's 50/50 whether or not an apology would diffuse - it might give the raged up biker a sign that his intimidation is working and might spur him on even further. You don't know how this stranger is going to react.

Odysseus

intellectual dosser wrote: »

From what I gather the motorbike was driving in the bus lane?

Apologise? Fcuk him!

It is amazing how different our behavior is on the roads. That Road Safety add showing people walking around bumping into and abusing each other summed it up.

Would you say that if you hit him?

Tallon

tipptopper wrote: »

It must have taken you half the morning to think of that reply tallon did it? Very incisive stuff from you altogether :rolleyes:

Not really, sure I replied 2 minutes after he posted it.. I'm not physic!

He merged into a buss lane, at 7am, while it was pouring rain and without checking his mirrors (?) and failed to see an oncoming biker which he nearly caused to crash

Equally, the biker was flying down the bus lane at 7am, while it was pouring rain and proceed to get off his bike and approach the car in which I assume was road rage

They were both idiots.. just as bad as eachother

jayok

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Both guys made a mistake.

You think that one should apologise while the other bangs on his window in the middle of a public road?

It's 50/50 whether or not an apology would diffuse - it might give the raged up biker a sign that his intimidation is working and might spur him on even further. You don't know how this stranger is going to react.

You're right it is 50/50, I don't know what would happen. But given the driver made the 1st mistake, I'd try and regain control of the situation by offering apology rather than the "fup him" mentality - which 100% won't work.

Odysseus

Tallon wrote: »

Equally, the biker was flying down the bus lane at 7am, while it was pouring rain and proceed to get off his bike and approach the car in which I assume was road rage

They were both idiots.. just as bad as eachother

Where are you getting the info on the bikes speed from? The OP does not state the bike was "flying"

intellectual dosser

jayok wrote: »

You're right it is 50/50, I don't know what would happen. But given the driver made the 1st mistake, I'd try and regain control of the situation by offering apology rather than the "fup him" mentality - which 100% won't work.

The first mistake was the motorbike entering the bus lane.

corktina

even if the biker was allowed to drive in the bus lane , he isn't allowed to overtake you on the inside (except in heavy traffic, which this wasn't as there didn't appear to be a q at the lights...)

OP you seem a little confused about which is the outside lane...or did I read it wrong?

ironclaw

I have a great DVR video that once and for all made me lose a lot of respect for bikers. Same deal. Shooting down bus lanes and then giving out blue murder when they aren't seen by merging traffic. I'll upload it when I can.

mitosis

coup1917 wrote: »

So I decided to pull into the left lane as we were all nearly stopped, checking no bus was coming - and I hold my hands up, I should have indicated but didn't.

..

There's your big mistake. Always check for other road users, not just buses. Check for a bus, you won't see a bike.

Make motorbikes act like cars as in the US road system (except Cali)
Problem solved.
No more bikes in bus lanes, undertaking at every opportunity. No more bikes complaining about motorists not being able to look at two mirrors simultaneously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

Tigger

Inside lane is on the left outside lane is on the right

Indicating dosent give right of way

The fact a bike isn't ment to be somewhere is no reason not to look. A cop bike would be enttled to be there

It's not undertaking to pass someone as you come up to a roundabout

Getting off a bike to growl at someone is stupid either start something or don't : pulling shapes like that makes people aggressive towards bikes

Heroditas

Surely the OP did the right thing by staying in their car?
Getting off a motorbike and then proceeding to bang on a car window is extremely aggressive. Who knows what would have happened if the OP had got out of their car? Yes, they did a silly thing by pulling into the lane but the bike rider lost all moral high ground by acting very aggressively afterwards.

BrianD3

Were there any signs or markings suggesting that traffic in the bus lane needs to yield when the bus lane ends eg

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Lucan,+South+Dublin&hl=en&ll=53.356187,-6.451936&spn=0.000051,0.038409&sll=53.3834,-8.21775&sspn=9.666652,19.665527&oq=lucan&hnear=Lucan,+County+Dublin&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=53.35619,-6.45183&panoid=UXJ26iMIo_WJGS4GY2-QVg&cbp=12,41.89,,0,0

Shakti

The classic one I find is when sitting in the left lane at a roundabout and just when a gap comes up and your about to enter onto the roundabout cyclist/motorcyclist overtakes you on the inside and enters onto roundabout.

Tallon

Odysseus wrote: »

Where are you getting the info on the bikes speed from? The OP does not state the bike was "flying"

Flying is slang, it doesn't mean he was literally flying, or traveling fast!

mitosis

BrianD3 wrote: »

Were there any signs or markings suggesting that traffic in the bus lane needs to yield when the bus lane ends eg

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Lucan,+South+Dublin&hl=en&ll=53.356187,-6.451936&spn=0.000051,0.038409&sll=53.3834,-8.21775&sspn=9.666652,19.665527&oq=lucan&hnear=Lucan,+County+Dublin&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=53.35619,-6.45183&panoid=UXJ26iMIo_WJGS4GY2-QVg&cbp=12,41.89,,0,0

It is usual, as per you example, for a Bus Lane to Yield where two lanes merge as to one. Where two lanes persist there is usually not a Yield. I expect in the OP's case there was no Yield.

djimi

corktina wrote: »

even if the biker was allowed to drive in the bus lane , he isn't allowed to overtake you on the inside (except in heavy traffic, which this wasn't as there didn't appear to be a q at the lights...)

OP you seem a little confused about which is the outside lane...or did I read it wrong?

You sure about that? Im not a biker but its always been my understanding that anyone in the bus lane can pass traffic on the main road as a bus lane is not a "normal" driving lane as such (ie its more like a slip road in terms of its relationship to the main driving lanes).

Reg'stoy

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Both guys made a mistake.

You think that one should apologise while the other bangs on his window in the middle of a public road?

It's 50/50 whether or not an apology would diffuse - it might give the raged up biker a sign that his intimidation is working and might spur him on even further. You don't know how this stranger is going to react.

Both guys didn't make a mistake the car driver did, he didn't indicate and more importantly he didn't check his blind spot. Those of us who have riden bikes tend to be more aware of them, I always say that bike riders make better drivers because we are so aware of all the possible dangers while driving.

This must have been a pretty close call as the only time I felt a need to remonstrate with a driver was when I was nearly taken out of it by a car entering a roundabout I was on. What really made me mad was his raised finger and his passengers laughter in reply to my sounding the horn in anger. The passenger stopped laughing when I politely asked would he mind sharing the joke, having filtered up to their car at the next set of lights.

Having hit a car side on, drivers fault again, "didn't see you" he said; "didn't fcuking look" was my reply. Car drivers should realise that leathers/protective clothing and a helmet aren't magical shields.

intellectual dosser

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Both guys didn't make a mistake the car driver did, he didn't indicate and more importantly he didn't check his blind spot. Those of us who have riden bikes tend to be more aware of them, I always say that bike riders make better drivers because we are so aware of all the possible dangers while driving.

This must have been a pretty close call as the only time I felt a need to remonstrate with a driver was when I was nearly taken out of it by a car entering a roundabout I was on. What really made me mad was his raised finger and his passengers laughter in reply to my sounding the horn in anger. The passenger stopped laughing when I politely asked would he mind sharing the joke, having filtered up to their car at the next set of lights.

Having hit a car side on, drivers fault again, "didn't see you" he said; "didn't fcuking look" was my reply. Car drivers should realise that leathers/protective clothing and a helmet aren't magical shields.

I must have missed something.

If the biker didn't make a mistake then motorbikes must be allowed to enter bus lanes.

Given that you are a motorcyclist yourself - Can you clarify please?

The Royal Scam

I'm sorry , a lot of bikers seem deluded about the fact they are good drivers. Just because they a more aware as they break multiple laws, speeding, undertaking, bus lanes etc. does not make them better drivers. I have seen some good bike drivers and fair play to them, I'd say it is hard to sit in a line of traffic when it is so easy to move along the line of traffic.
I've not been suprised by some of the lunacy I've seen over the years. Only last Friday on the M7 , large volume of traffic all doing 120 km and a biker flys by basically between the cars on lane 1 and lane 2, doing at least 150kmh. About a half an hour later , a biker heading down the hard shoulder at similar speeds.

Cuddlesworth

intellectual dosser wrote: »

From what I gather the motorbike was driving in the bus lane?

Apologise? Fcuk him!

Nice attitude. Regardless of the vehicle type, you should always check if the way is clear before changing lanes and you should always indicate.

The Royal Scam wrote: »

I'm sorry , a lot of bikers seem deluded about the fact they are good drivers. Just because they a more aware as they break multiple laws, speeding, undertaking, bus lanes etc. does not make them better drivers. I have seen some good bike drivers and fair play to them, I'd say it is hard to sit in a line of traffic when it is so easy to move along the line of traffic.

Most of those chaps take their bike out once a year and spent their journey ****ting themselves as they have little control over the bike. A few just have nowhere to be.

There is nothing wrong with filtering correctly. But before you even start, I agree that filtering tends to be done at a far greater speed then safe in general.

The Royal Scam wrote: »

I've not been suprised by some of the lunacy I've seen over the years. Only last Friday on the M7 , large volume of traffic all doing 120 km and a biker flys by basically between the cars on lane 1 and lane 2, doing at least 150kmh. About a half an hour later , a biker heading down the hard shoulder at similar speeds.

And I have seen cars tearing up the m50 at 170kph before braking heavily and sitting 10 feet up the arse of the car in front. There are idiot drivers everywhere, the difference is that bikes does the least amount of damage to others and are far more likely to remove the problem from the gene pool.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I dislike this attitude immensely, surely being a biker you should realise that you are harder to see so going up the bus lane in bad weather probably isn't the best idea. Its the same way that I always give trucks as much room as possible as I know they can have issues seeing cars in certain areas. I don't just stick my car in there blind spots and then give out if they hit me.

You are aware of it and you drive slower if you know what your doing. If you are observant you can also see what people are going to do before they do it. He(OP) most likely would have been looking left, with his car as far left in the lane as possible. He also would have had to turn the wheel and move slowly for at least two feet before beginning his attempt to lane change in earnest.

But the biker in the bus lane was probably the usual type, who always feels like its the other guys fault and there was nothing that he could do about it.

I've been in one close call in the last two years of driving at rush hour. Sometimes its hard to listen to other "bikers" who can't go a week without needing some new pants.

corktina

djimi wrote: »

You sure about that? Im not a biker but its always been my understanding that anyone in the bus lane can pass traffic on the main road as a bus lane is not a "normal" driving lane as such (ie its more like a slip road in terms of its relationship to the main driving lanes).

He wasn't in the bus lane, that had finished and there were then two normal driving lanes.

dudara

A large amount of road rage can be defused by someone simply having the balls to say "Sorry, made a mistake. Please accept my apology". That probably takes more courage than facing down someone.

intellectual dosser

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Nice attitude. Regardless of the vehicle type, you should always check if the way is clear before changing lanes and you should always indicate.

My attitude is towards apologising to a guy stopping traffic to bash on my window.

Thanks though for stating the basic rules of the road.

coup1917

Tallon wrote: »

Not really, sure I replied 2 minutes after he posted it.. I'm not physic!

He merged into a buss lane, at 7am, while it was pouring rain and without checking his mirrors (?) and failed to see an oncoming biker which he nearly caused to crash

Equally, the biker was flying down the bus lane at 7am, while it was pouring rain and proceed to get off his bike and approach the car in which I assume was road rage

They were both idiots.. just as bad as eachother

Ok, a few points to take in ....
But first of all, Tallon, judging by your creative replies & wild imagination, you may be many things but I can be sure you are not "physic"......:))))..
Where did I say I merged into a bus lane...?
Where did I say I didn't check my mirrors..?
How do you know I nearly caused the biker to crash and that he wasn't pissed off because he didn't get a chance to overtake me by using the bus lane..?

From my point of view, I acknowledged I didn't indicate having initially checked the bus lane was clear. I practically always indicate, but this one time I didn't and I hold my hands up. As the bus lane had ended, I changed lane, from a vitually stopped position. I couldn't see the biker, because he was stuck right up behind me.
He quite obviously entered the bus lane before it had ended in a bid to get passed the line of traffic.

And what if everyone on the road got out of there car or bike to demand a personal apology every time someone messed up, no-one is 100% corrct on the road all the time...I might blow the horn at someone, if they did something dangerous, but I wouldnt get out & aggressively approach them......... Who the fc*k do they think they are.....??

And for the record, I didn't get out of the car because I'm at a stage in my life where I don't feel the need to knock the sh*t out of someone anymore to make my point. I could have, but with a couple of dozen cars stopped in traffic all around us, diffusing the situation was the better option in this case.

Face up to the facts,
your lazy ass driving nearly cost a man his life and your bitching he wanted an apology?
your a coward also

coup1917

urbanledge wrote: »

Face up to the facts,
your lazy ass driving nearly cost a man his life and your bitching he wanted an apology?
your a coward also

The facts are my lazy ass can spell You're..........:rolleyes: