the guy in the red suit.... time for the talk yet?

RoyalMarine

Hi!

Myself and my son's mother have been discussing lately as to a good time to inform him of santa. He's 8 years old now, and he told us he doesn't believe in easter bunny, tooth fairy etc etc as he heard it in school.

I know kids are talking a lot more about it at a younger age than when I was a kid (11 when I found out).

Any advise from parents who have the same issue or who have already told their children?

We want to get one more year out of it as it's so much fun!

BUT I don't want him to be embarrassed to be in school and have the whole "what did you get off santa" and then be laughed at......

kids these days and all that....

Abi

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Hi!

Myself and my son's mother have been discussing lately as to a good time to inform him of santa. He's 8 years old now, and he told us he doesn't believe in easter bunny, tooth fairy etc etc as he heard it in school.

I know kids are talking a lot more about it at a younger age than when I was a kid (11 when I found out).

Any advise from parents who have the same issue or who have already told their children?

We want to get one more year out of it as it's so much fun!

BUT I don't want him to be embarrassed to be in school and have the whole "what did you get off santa" and then be laughed at......

kids these days and all that....

I think if he asks if he's real or not. 8 still seems quite young to me though, so I think you'll get another year out of him at least. I agree with you, if other children in his class tell him he's not real, it's best to tell him so he doesn't get teased.

January

Leave it another two years at least! Let him decide when he doesn't believe any more, he'll let you know, believe me!

RoyalMarine

Thanks for the advise!

January, I want to leave it as long as possible, but my brother went through a horrible ordeal in school over the same matter.

I'd like to protect him as much as possible from having to deal with the less than friendly kids at school.

Rochester

My 13 year old told us she knew since she was about 8/9 - logically how could the big man get to where he has to go all over the world:rolleyes:. She liked watching us pretend though. So we didn't tell her, but she knew.

Abi

RoyalMarine wrote: »

I'd like to protect him as much as possible from having to deal with the less than friendly kids at school.

Kids seem to be meaner than when I was at school. It's almost like they look for any reason to slag each other off. Children these days get to know too much to soon, and unfortunately if you try to retain their innocence in certain matters it can be more damaging to them socially. It's horrible to have to think of it this way. If he's showing serious doubts about it, or he's saying kids in his class are saying it, then it's probably time to tell him. I reckon he's good for now though

old hippy

I found out when I was 7 (this is back in the 70s) and I was relieved, I'd began to wonder about all that kind of stuff

Was the kid who told me being "mean"? More like rational, I guess, it wasn't the end of my childhood innocence, at any rate.

Ickle Magoo

Would you be able to have a general chat with him about santa to try to suss out if he does genuinely believe or not and whether anything actually needs to be stated? Given he's well aware of tooth fairies, easter bunnies, etc then he perhaps already knows but is concerned if he says anything, his present haul will be affected/just enjoys the theatre around it...?

I know myself and from chatting with friends that there is a definite time when realising the likelihood/rationalising visits from santa and that can be quite some time before being willing/wanting to vocalise them with those you suspect of doing the present buying.

All the best.

RoyalMarine

excellent suggestion ickle magoo.

I'll do my best to suss him with a chat about it. Might even be a good time to ask about what he wants this year so I can start the christmas hunt.

How Strange

Op I'd say be careful not to project your fears or your brother's experience into him. Have a general chat with him but he'll let you know when he's figured it out. My brother, now 21, believed until he was 11 or so and I mean really believed. He wasn't bullied or had kids being mean to him.

Wantobe

My eight year old believes in Santa very seriously. Also the tooth fairy, but for some reason not fairies in general. Last week when one of her teeth fell out she left a questionnaire under her pillow for the tooth fairy to fill in. She even drew boxes where she asked the tooth fairy to draw a picture of herself and her home and her pet etc etc. This is the same eight year old that has serious discussions with me about whether God exists. It's fun in our house.:D

Shivers26

8 is very young to not believe. I don't think I would tell him unless you suspected he 'knew' or he asks you.

I have a 13 year old now and he knew from when he was about 10 (possibly 9 but he pretended for that last year) but when we told him we told him that he was not allowed to go around telling other kids. He has lots of younger cousins and I didn't want any of them knowing before time. I also said he wasn't to actively tell the truth to other kids his age. If they were all taking in general terms then he could but not to tell kids that may be believers the truth. He kind of got where I was coming from in that he suddenly realised Christmas had lost a little of its magic without Santa.

Anyway, I'd wait another year at least OP.

lynski

holy cow, 8 is young? my 5 yr old has told me he does not believe, i told him it was a bit early to be talking about it and we will talk nearer to christmas.
as we are atheist i think the whole rationalising has started a bit early. tooth fairy was never taken seriously, the 3 yr old refuses to believe in that at all and i dont do the easter bunny - american hallmark crap.

maryk123

I would be devestated if my kids knew about santa at 8 - kids grow up too early these days.

I would not tell him the truth - once its over and he knows its over the magic is gone- you cant bring it back - ahhhhhhhhh

sbsquarepants

I think there is always a period of a year or two where they know the truth but are afraid to admit it in case the stream of good pressies drys up! maybe thats's whats going on here?
If not, let them go on as long as possible, innocence is an amazing thing - the longer it can be preserved the better!

The Corinthian

maryk123 wrote: »

I would be devestated if my kids knew about santa at 8 - kids grow up too early these days.

I don't think so. I figured it out at eight and distinctly remember challenging my extremely flummoxed mother in a shop, in public about it, demanding to know the truth.

I wasn't alone at that age either, and coming up to Christmas, there were numerous debates amongst the 8-year-olds, with some having cottoned on, while others were expanding ever more incredible theories on how Santa was able to cover every house in the World in one night - when I think about it, it reminds me of arguments I've had, as an adult, with religious people.

Personally, I would let them figure it out on their own (or through their peers). If they ask, ask them why and help them conclude on their own that it makes no sense. Finally, confirm this and compliment them on having figured it out.

maddragon

OMG- you mean he's not real. First my house insurance renewal bill came in the post this morning and now this. I'm absolutely gutted.

opinion guy

I found out aged 9 from another kid and I can tell you the sense that my parents had been lying to me stayed with me a long time.

My 2 cents - people shouldn't lie to their kids in the first place - but if they must - best to tell them the truth yourself before someone else does.

charlemont

My mother believed right up till she was sixteen, Yes,That's not a mistake, 16 !! Simpleton......

She's still innocent....


She was furious when I told her in front of her friend that I didn't believe in Santa, She was moaning about me losing my innocence....

ElleEm

opinion guy wrote: »

I found out aged 9 from another kid and I can tell you the sense that my parents had been lying to me stayed with me a long time.

My 2 cents - people shouldn't lie to their kids in the first place - but if they must - best to tell them the truth yourself before someone else does.

You will probably get slated for that post but I totally agree.
Kids don't need lies to enjoy Christmas!!!

opinion guy

charlemont wrote: »

She was furious when I told her in front of her friend that I didn't believe in Santa, She was moaning about me losing my innocence....

hahah you were aged.....29 maybe ?? :pac:

fishy fishy

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Hi!

Myself and my son's mother have been discussing lately as to a good time to inform him of santa. He's 8 years old now, and he told us he doesn't believe in easter bunny, tooth fairy etc etc as he heard it in school.

I know kids are talking a lot more about it at a younger age than when I was a kid (11 when I found out).

Any advise from parents who have the same issue or who have already told their children?

We want to get one more year out of it as it's so much fun!

BUT I don't want him to be embarrassed to be in school and have the whole "what did you get off santa" and then be laughed at......

kids these days and all that....

why would you tell him - leave him to find out for himself - listen the child is 8 . He's going to have to deal with reality for about the next 70 years. Leave the child to make his own mind up - stop looking at other kids and what they are doing. And don't ruin your own kids next couple of years of believing because you are worried about what happens in school. Why would you even think to tell your child - you should be encouraging him. If he believes then it's true. I can guarantee you, there might be one or two that might think different in his class but the majority are waiting for santa.

lukesmom

Our son told us he didn't believe last year he was 9. My heart broke but that's life

opinion guy

fishy fishy wrote: »

why would you tell him - leave him to find out for himself - listen the child is 8 . He's going to have to deal with reality for about the next 70 years. Leave the child to make his own mind up - stop looking at other kids and what they are doing. And don't ruin your own kids next couple of years of believing because you are worried about what happens in school. Why would you even think to tell your child - you should be encouraging him. If he believes then it's true. I can guarantee you, there might be one or two that might think different in his class but the majority are waiting for santa.

This is why:

opinion guy wrote: »

I found out aged 9 from another kid and I can tell you the sense that my parents had been lying to me stayed with me a long time.

Also what is the problem with reality ? Reality is only disillusioning if you have filled their head full of illusions in the first place

BostonB

In our 8yrs old class theres a kid who tells them all theres no Santa because their culture/faith doesn't have it and their parents have told him to tell everyone which I think is a bit mean. I told mine to believe what he prefers to believe in. I think he'll prefer/choose to believe in Santa, as he knows I'd make him earn any presents through good behaviour and chores. I'm more concerned is he pass ideas of now Santa to his younger siblings, who are much younger. But I have been trying to get the idea across that not everyone/culture does things the same way.

The Corinthian

lukesmom wrote: »

Our son told us he didn't believe last year he was 9. My heart broke but that's life

I'd look on the bright side and see it as a sign that my son has a higher IQ than his peers.

BostonB

opinion guy wrote: »

This is why:



Also what is the problem with reality ? Reality is only disillusioning if you have filled their head full of illusions in the first place

Suspension of disbelief
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

opinion guy

BostonB wrote: »

Suspension of disbelief
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

Eh...your point ?

BostonB

There is room in the world to suspend disbelief for a while. Do you stop your kids from watching all fictional media, books, etc.

All Santa is a carrot to encourage good behaviour.

fishy fishy

opinion guy wrote: »

This is why:



Also what is the problem with reality ? Reality is only disillusioning if you have filled their head full of illusions in the first place

as opposed to "my parents came up to me and told me there was no man in the red suit - ruined my sense of childhood for years after"

Listen, every kid on earth goes through this - at least let him find out for himself instead of ruining it for him. Stop worrying about other kids and what they are doing. Don't ruin it for your own kid through worrying about others. Believe me its not going to do any permanent damage when he finds out. Do you hold it agains your own parents, or was your life ruined when you found out? Leave the child to his childhood.

opinion guy

BostonB wrote: »

There is room in the world to suspend disbelief for a while. Do you stop your kids from watching all fictional media, books, etc.

What kids ?
I'm speaking from my own experience of it.

Wantobe

Do you think your opinion might change if you had OpinionGuyJnr looking up at you with big questioning eyes?

BostonB

opinion guy wrote: »

What kids ?
I'm speaking from my own experience of it.

Imagine you have some, oh wait...

BostonB

Theres more here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus#Controversy_about_deceiving_children

FloatingVoter

Once I woke up and discovered my dad was the tooth fairy - it didn't take too long to work out the rest. I asked an older mate point blank and got the truth. I was about 6. So c. 1980.
I did know one guy who was getting visited by Santa when he was 13 and he wasn't even what I'd class as stupid, just naive - they should know somewhere in-between.

Squ

Rochester wrote: »

logically how could the big man get to where he has to go all over the world.

my 9 yr old explaining it to her brother wrote:

"Children being good all year provides the magic required to deliver presents to all houses.
Plus the fact that he flies east to west, so has 24 hrs, not just one night of local time.
The only reason people over the age of 12 don't get visited by Santa any more is they should be good anyway"

My wife and I just sat there. Mouths agape.

opinion guy

Wantobe wrote: »

Do you think your opinion might change if you had OpinionGuyJnr looking up at you with big questioning eyes?

On this subject of santa - no. I'm not soo ancient that I've forgotten my own experiences. I like to think you can have celebratory festive times without you know - all of society collectively lying to kids in order to indulge adult dreams of being kids again.

On religion - no way no kid of mine is getting indoctrinated into a cult.

Of course you can't tell a kid everything - but there is no need to create a civilisation wide lie for them either.

opinion guy

fishy fishy wrote: »

as opposed to "my parents came up to me and told me there was no man in the red suit - ruined my sense of childhood for years after"

Listen, every kid on earth goes through this - at least let him find out for himself instead of ruining it for him. Stop worrying about other kids and what they are doing. Don't ruin it for your own kid through worrying about others. Believe me its not going to do any permanent damage when he finds out. Do you hold it agains your own parents, or was your life ruined when you found out? Leave the child to his childhood.

Why does every kid go throuhg this ?
Because we set it up so they have to.

why do people then act surprised that teenagers get all moody ??? You've only been filling their heads full of nonsense for ten years ish and then turn around an go - actually all that cool stuff we told you - all horseshlt - the truth is everything sucks and you need to compete and do better than all your friends for things to suck a bit less.

Ahava

I found out at the age of 5. My 7 year old sister told me on Christmas day. I remember feeling quite a bit angry at my parents for lying to me and humiliated for having believed. I kept thinking of the letter my parents asked me to write to Santa a few weeks earlier. I'd felt so proud of myself that I was able to write a personal, intimate letter to this "magical being". I trusted that what I wrote would have remained our secret. I felt betrayed when I realised that my parents read it instead...

Now, I realise that not all kids are as sensitive as I was. But many are. And to us, these kind of lies don't make any sense at all. We see no value in them.

I can't relate to those who say that once children stop believing in "stories" we tell them, their innocence is gone. How so? Innocence is about having a pure, honest and open heart. It's about being kind and respectful just because you believe in the value of it. It's about allowing yourself to feel vulnerable in front of another human being. This is where the magic of life is, we really (really!) don't need to make up stuff to keep our children innocent.

opinion guy

Ahava wrote: »

I can't relate to those who say that once children stop believing in "stories" we tell them, their innocence is gone. How so? Innocence is about having a pure, honest and open heart. It's about being kind and respectful just because you believe in the value of it. It's about allowing yourself to feel vulnerable in front of another human being. This is where the magic of life is, we really (really!) don't need to make up stuff to keep our children innocent.

IMHO this is nothing to do with concern for the kid and everything to do with the desire of the person saying this to relive their own 'innocence'. Its selfish frankly.

Ahava

opinion guy wrote: »

IMHO this is nothing to do with concern for the kid and everything to do with the desire of the person saying this to relive their own 'innocence'. Its selfish frankly.

Yep, I agree.

Soups123

My 11 year old hasnt believed for 2 years maybe more, he speaks about it with his mates but he has never said anything. Kids go watch movies, play games etc its all about imagination. I think some kids know but want to keep that imagination in the comfort of there own home where they dont have friends to impress.

He'll come and tell you when he is good and ready but maybe he wants to enjoy the house and the secretive nature of it all for another year more.

If he come and asks tell him the truth but until then maybe he's happy knowing with his friends and playing the game with you.

Wantobe

I found out relatively early that there was no santa, also from older siblings. It didn't bother me all that much but I suppose I was not all that sensitive. I had a great imagination though, and was a voracious reader. I spent days, weeks, years probably, in dream worlds about the Tuatha de Danann, Narnia, all sorts of legends and fairy stories. I used to read things like the Famous Five and pretend I was a runaway on an island and trying to be self- sufficient. My parents did nothing to discourage my dreaming but rather encouraged me to read anything I wanted. It hasn't made me into a dreamer as an adult, funnily enough, I'm more of a pragmatist but I would encourage my children to open their minds and imagination in the same way I did.

planetX

I've started to worry about this - I have an 11 yr old who firmly believes, and I think he's going to be quite devastated when he finds out. I've been waiting all year for the topic to come up, it hasn't. I always assumed he would eventually ask me directly and I'd tell him, but that isn't happening. I can't find a way to tell him that feels natural and not clumsy, and now we're getting closer to Christmas and I don't want to ruin it:( It's become a real worry, he recently listed Santa as one of his favourite people in a school assignment.

The Corinthian

Squ wrote: »

My wife and I just sat there. Mouths agape.

9 yr old explaining it to her brother wrote:

Children being good all year provides the magic required to deliver presents to all houses.
Plus the fact that he flies east to west, so has 24 hrs, not just one night of local time.
The only reason people over the age of 12 don't get visited by Santa any more is they should be good anyway

Wait till she gets older...

29 yr old explaining it to her brother wrote:

I see evidence of God's word being faithful about sin, more faithful than any account of the secular world in respect to human wrongdoing. I see evidence of absolute morality in the world, and I see solid logical reason for the necessity of a Creator, and indeed if that creation is necessary, then this universe, us included was created with an intention, and a purpose. Indeed, I can see the Bible, time and time again being faithful in respect to historical truth in the Near East, and in respect to archaeology. I can see the Bible being faithful in respect to the existence and life of Jesus, I can see the Bible being faithful in respect to the history of the early church, and I can see the importance of the Resurrection in making solid sense of what happened outside Jerusalem all those years ago. In comparison to any other ancient text that exists in the world today, the reality is that the New Testament is textually the most trustworthy on the basis of manuscripts. In Jesus, I see over 300 prophesies in the Old Testament fulfilled. In Jesus, I see a logical resolution to the problem of sin. The Gospel, makes clear sense to me, that's why I defend it. I present God's word, because I'm assured that by believing it, people can come to know the living God by faith.

I wonder if there's a correlation between adult religiosity and age at which one stopped believing in Santa?

Note: Second quote is actually taken from a discussion here on Boards.

opinion guy

The Corinthian wrote: »

Note: Second quote is actually taken from a discussion here on Boards.

I can guess who said that....

iguana

The Corinthian wrote: »

Wait till she gets older...


I wonder if there's a correlation between adult religiosity and age at which one stopped believing in Santa?

I believed in Santa up until about 11 (sort of, my belief came away in layers so when I finally knew for sure it was more of a 'yup - knew it, next' moment than any big revelation) and it hasn't in anyway prevented me from becoming atheist as an adult. If anything it probably helped as I have a good understanding of how sincere belief doesn't mean what you believe in is real, along with first hand experience of very much wanting to believe in something that I know deep down is a fantasy.

I also knew how to embrace a world that is empty of the thing I used to enjoy believing in, as once I absolutely gave up on any belief in Santa being real, I got to be on the adult side of the divide, which provides a happy confidence and surity that your life is on the right track.

fishy fishy

opinion guy wrote: »

Why does every kid go throuhg this ?
Because we set it up so they have to.

why do people then act surprised that teenagers get all moody ??? You've only been filling their heads full of nonsense for ten years ish and then turn around an go - actually all that cool stuff we told you - all horseshlt - the truth is everything sucks and you need to compete and do better than all your friends for things to suck a bit less.

just send him out to work and be done with it - tell him money doesn't grow on trees and he'll have to realize life is hard and there is no such thing as fantasy or stupid things like childhood. That should make you happy. :rolleyes:

fishy fishy

opinion guy wrote: »

On this subject of santa - no. I'm not soo ancient that I've forgotten my own experiences. I like to think you can have celebratory festive times without you know - all of society collectively lying to kids in order to indulge adult dreams of being kids again.

On religion - no way no kid of mine is getting indoctrinated into a cult.

Of course you can't tell a kid everything - but there is no need to create a civilisation wide lie for them either.

It was a pagan holiday before the church hi-jacked it.

fishy fishy

Ahava wrote: »

Yep, I agree.

make sure you ban books from your house also - can't have them dealing with that nonsense. They might "imagine" too much. :o

Ahava

fishy fishy wrote: »

make sure you ban books from your house also - can't have them dealing with that nonsense. They might "imagine" too much. :o

But can you see the difference between self directed imagination (which I agree with Einstein, that it is more important than knowledge) and a made up story that is being fed to a child as the truth?

In my view, there is nothing wrong with stories (quite the opposite!), as long as they are appreciated for what they are - ideas, not reality.