CSO report on public-private pay gap

ballyharpat

"Would you rather 30 mins with each patient?
Is the PS system in this instance better than the private system?

Does your boss/owner rush you through patients in order maximise people care and profits?

I personally would rather be looked after by a PS HCA as they get to spend that little bit more time with the patient rathert than in out thank you mam."

I would rather 30 min with each patient, it doesn't mean I need 30 min with each patient, I am there to work, from speaking to people that have come from hospitals/public sector, to our establishment, the level of care is much better in ours, they ring a bell and it is responded to much faster than in the public sector, there is more conversing with clients and asking them how they feel etc.
Of course it is a business, unlike the Public service, so therefore the business has to turn a profit and still be competitive, if we had 30 min with each resident, then the rate that the client pays would go up and then we would not be as competitive from a business standpoint, so the business would lose clients and then there would be layoffs.

cosbloodymick

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah they also are up to their t1ts in debt due to over borrowing for the day to day running of their countries and are all in the middle or will soon to be in a bailout program..its time to start joining the dots...The Public sector should be getting paid less than the private sector as they get a bullet proof and very attractive pension and security in their job, something that if you put a price on would seriously skew this report. Look at Germany, France and other countries that are not in the mire..

Yeah, If only the Irish people did copy the French model. Where workers, both public sector and private sector stand up for themselves and don't get involved in trying to destroy the terms and conditions of employment of each other!

not yet

cosbloodymick wrote: »

Yeah, If only the Irish people did copy the French model. Where workers, both public sector and private sector stand up for themselves and don't get involved in trying to destroy the terms and conditions of employment of each other!

So true, It's sickening to listen to some of the crap the past few years, Ain't it funny when all these people where making serious money during the boom we heard none of this. Move on few years and some people would sack the whole PS and replace them with minimum wage employees.

woodoo

kceire wrote: »

Hang on a minute here, then you would have to give the PS back their PRSI as you are aware that they pay that too??? Are you seriously unaware that PS staff pay PRSI, pension contributions and pension levy???????.

I think he was yeah when he posted that bit but getting people to admit they are wrong here is mighty hard

woodoo

cosbloodymick wrote: »

Yeah, If only the Irish people did copy the French model. Where workers, both public sector and private sector stand up for themselves and don't get involved in trying to destroy the terms and conditions of employment of each other!

Yeah the french got together and can retire at 60, we argue amongst ourselves and the government sneak in a 68 retirement age.

woodoo

not yet wrote: »

So true, It's sickening to listen to some of the crap the past few years, Ain't it funny when all these people where making serious money during the boom we heard none of this. Move on few years and some people would sack the whole PS and replace them with minimum wage employees.

Very true, if the economy was back on track and booming tomorrow they would all turn their attention to consumerism again. The Indo would be directing them on that too. Just like they did with property. The masses are easily controlled.

sarumite

not yet wrote: »

Ain't it funny when all these people where making serious money during the boom we heard none of this. Move on few years and some people would sack the whole PS and replace them with minimum wage employees.

Tis about as funny as when the PS were all about benchmarking. Now its the ugly word that dare not rear its head.

cosbloodymick

sarumite wrote: »

Tis about as funny as when the PS were all about benchmarking. Now its the ugly word that dare not rear its head.

12 years of the Celtic Tiger = 4% Benchmark pay increase
1st year of Economic Crisis = 15% pay cut.
Given back in spades buddy (thats only so far)

Farmer Pudsey

cosbloodymick wrote: »

12 years of the Celtic Tiger = 4% Benchmark pay increase
1st year of Economic Crisis = 15% pay cut.
Given back in spades buddy (thats only so far)

Not quite the truth
http://www.finfacts.com/celtictigereconomyireland.htm#Pay_-_Irish_Public_Service_2001-2006

Takes alittle time to load however it put a lot of things in perpective and if you want the complete article
http://www.finfacts.com/celtictigereconomyireland.htm

Now I know it was written in 2006 but it put alot in perpective and debunks the theory that private sector workers were the winners in the Celtic tiger

cosbloodymick

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not quite the truth
http://www.finfacts.com/celtictigereconomyireland.htm#Pay_-_Irish_Public_Service_2001-2006

Takes alittle time to load however it put a lot of things in perpective and if you want the complete article
http://www.finfacts.com/celtictigereconomyireland.htm

Now I know it was written in 2006 but it put alot in perpective and debunks the theory that private sector workers were the winners in the Celtic tiger

I take exception to your not quite the truth comment.
I know what benchmark payment I got and I know what paycuts I got.

not yet

sarumite wrote: »

Tis about as funny as when the PS were all about benchmarking. Now its the ugly word that dare not rear its head.

You really don't know what benchmarking was do you........

It was to bring PS workers in line with private sector, It was 10% over 4 years which is 2.5 % a year. That has been totally reversed with pay cuts and pension levy.

sarumite

not yet wrote: »

You really don't know what benchmarking was do you........

It was to bring PS workers in line with private sector, It was 10% over 4 years which is 2.5 % a year. That has been totally reversed with pay cuts and pension levy.

I understand it. I actually supported benchmarking and still do (Which is why I am wholly opposed to the CPA). However the argument that the private sector were raking it in during the tiger period doesn't actually fit the data. If you look at charts on Ronan lyons blog for example (as he used numbers from the CSO) it shows that the average PS wage increased by €19,500 while the average private sector wage increased by €15,600. Certainly that increase has been affected by the pay cut and the levy, though between redundancies and pay cuts its arguable that the private sector has been hit equally hard (if not harder?) as a result of the recession however it does not have a taxpayer backed guarantee of no more pay or job cuts. Maybe it is time to "bring PS workers in line with private sector"?

Japer

cosbloodymick wrote: »

12 years of the Celtic Tiger = 4% Benchmark pay increase 10 years of Celtic Tiger = doubling of public sector pay
1st year of Economic Crisis = 15% pay cut. 5 years of economic crisis =8% net pay cut

fixed that for you

Gumbo

Japer wrote: »

fixed that for you

Your talking crap, the overall pay bill may have doubled but individual salaries did not and you know that. Another idiotic post.

fliball123

cosbloodymick wrote: »

Yeah, If only the Irish people did copy the French model. Where workers, both public sector and private sector stand up for themselves and don't get involved in trying to destroy the terms and conditions of employment of each other!

Mick the private sector is being decimated, there are some sectors flourishing and making a profit the ps see some pay incresases and think that they should be entitled to the same..They neglect to see the companies in trouble cutting an slashing and inevitably going to the wall..The gov is borrowing 2.5million an hour...now do you think the ps should follow the model of the flourishing sectors or ones that are in trouble...I mean increments and allowances are a complete jock given the state the country finds itself in.. I think the majority of people here are looking for common sense...cuts from the top..major cuts at the top and maybe tiny ones from those under say 30k...People are looking for the ps to adhere to the real world...like no more allowances for holding a key or making a fcuking box or for traveling to work or paying unvouched expenses. They are looking for the gov to stop paying increments temporarily until we are out of the sh1tstorm which in any private sector company which is in the same financial mess the gov are in would of happened back in 2008... The private sector has woken up to the fact that every cent that cannot be brought back in from the ludicrous social partnership agreement will have to come from increased taxes.... The private sector do not want to destoy the ps terms and conditions all we want is value for the taxes we pay..We have seen our taxes increased by a very large % when both direct and indirect taxes are taken into account and yet the service being offered has been diminished year in year out for the last 5 years....

Sorry but to give you an analogy with in the private sector...if you were shopping in Dunnes and you had 100 euros a week to do your shopping and Dunnes upped their prices and cut service such as no more trollies, no more cleaning etc and then you found that your 100 had been cut to 60...would you still shop in dunnes? No you wouldnt you would be off to Aldi or Lidle but unfortunately we have no competition for the public sector in this country so the private sector are told to shut up and get on with it..So sorry if you think we are having a go at your terms and conditions as we look at the sick and dying in this country not having a bed to die on due to cuts to services instead of core pay

fliball123

not yet wrote: »

So true, It's sickening to listen to some of the crap the past few years, Ain't it funny when all these people where making serious money during the boom we heard none of this. Move on few years and some people would sack the whole PS and replace them with minimum wage employees.

And yet the PS made such a racket that they got 2 bouts of benchmarking...Dont hear you guys asking to be benchmarked again when things have hit the ****s

fliball123

cosbloodymick wrote: »

12 years of the Celtic Tiger = 4% Benchmark pay increase
1st year of Economic Crisis = 15% pay cut.
Given back in spades buddy (thats only so far)

Sorry on average 7% how anyone can defend the pension levy when what the ps pay with levy will not cover the costs of the existing members is a joke..Hows about you take you pension levy back and look after your own pensions

frankosw

fliball123 wrote: »

And yet the PS made such a racket that they got 2 bouts of benchmarking...Dont here you guys asking to be benchmarked again when things have hit the ****s

I'd be happy to be benchmarked against a java programmer or a senior bank official.

"Average" pay is skewed by the huge number of minimum wage employees in the private sector and nothing more.

people like you talk as if everybody in the private sector has taken a huge paycut and are living a hand to mouth existence..complete BS..many,many companies are flourishing and paying increases to thier employees and prices are being ramped up for goods and services right accross the board...example the Porterhouse pub has increased the price of a pint by 30 c in the last year...what does that indicate to you,mr backseat economist?

K-9

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry on average 7% how anyone can defend the pension levy when what the ps pay with levy will not cover the costs of the existing members is a joke..Hows about you take you pension levy back and look after your own pensions

They also pay the pre-existing pension deduction of about 5%.

fliball123

frankosw wrote: »

I'd be happy to be benchmarked against a java programmer or a senior bank official.

"Average" pay is skewed by the huge number of minimum wage employees in the private sector and nothing more.

people like you talk as if everybody in the private sector has taken a huge paycut and are living a hand to mouth existence..complete BS..many,many companies are flourishing and paying increases to thier employees and prices are being ramped up for goods and services right accross the board...example the Porterhouse pub has increased the price of a pint by 30 c in the last year...what does that indicate to you,mr backseat economist?

Is that what you do in the PS..I dont doubt that some in the PS would be brought up in line but the majority would take big pay cuts ... I never said all in the private sector have taken pay cuts..I pointed out that 4 companies a week since the beginning of 2010 have gone to the wall and that they go though processes such as pay cuts, hours cut, redundancies before going to the wall. I also pointed out that 350k joined the dole queue since 2008 ...a very low % less than 1% of those were from the public sector. Anyone in the private sector not getting a pay cut means that their company is not in difficulty..now the public sector is borrowing 2.5million an hour..show me a private sector company in that much trouble and paying pay rises?

fliball123

K-9 wrote: »

They also pay the pre-existing pension deduction of about 5%.

Which is a contribution to a defined benefit..,listen I would be all on for you keeping your pension deductions and levy..and take away pensions for all existing PS workers...It would save a small fortune for the tax payer

K-9

fliball123 wrote: »

Which is a contribution to a defined benefit..,listen I would be all on for you keeping your pension deductions and levy..and take away pensions for all existing PS workers...It would save a small fortune for the tax payer

They pay on average 7% plus another 5% plus PRSI towards the state pension part, that's a pretty significant contribution.

fliball123

K-9 wrote: »

They pay on average 7% plus another 5% plus PRSI towards the state pension part, that's a pretty significant contribution.

And yet with all the PS paying it we will still not be able to afford existing and future pensions for the next century. As I say keep your contributions and levy but look after you own pension simple we would save a fortune going forward

frankosw

fliball123 wrote: »

show me a private sector company in that much trouble and paying pay rises?

Aib.

Bailed out by the taxpayers and still paying bonuses top senior staff.

Gumbo

fliball123 wrote: »

Hows about you take you pension levy back and look after your own pensions

And pension contributions. Your again ignoring the fact that ps pay pension contributions and pension levy. If your gona rant about something at least be truthful and don't post pure ill informed opinions and try maintain them as fact.

frankosw

fliball123 wrote: »

And yet with all the PS paying it we will still not be able to afford existing and future pensions for the next century. As I say keep your contributions and levy but look after you own pension simple we would save a fortune going forward

The usual pension contribution for a PS worker is in the region of 15%.

Anybody hired after 1996 must pay this and has no choice in the matter.


This is in addition to prsi that they also pay.

Head The Wall

cosbloodymick wrote: »

12 years of the Celtic Tiger = 4% Benchmark pay increase
1st year of Economic Crisis = 15% pay cut.
Given back in spades buddy (thats only so far)

So you had a 15% pay cut in the first year . Yeah right, are you the taoiseachs right hand man or what?

K-9

fliball123 wrote: »

And yet with all the PS paying it we will still not be able to afford existing and future pensions for the next century. As I say keep your contributions and levy but look after you own pension simple we would save a fortune going forward

I'll look after my own pension seeing as I'm private sector but as others and me have pointed out, they do pay a significant portion towards pensions, not the 7% you tried to make out. That's one error you've been corrected on so I'll expect not to see it repeated again.

The pension issue is a major issue, not just with the public sector, the pension levy goes in some way to help with for the future. I'd say they'll be asked to pay more and private sector workers will be asked for a compulsory deduction, but that's a Government policy decision.

Tipp Man

K-9 wrote: »

I'll look after my own pension seeing as I'm private sector but as others and me have pointed out, they do pay a significant portion towards pensions, not the 7% you tried to make out. That's one error you've been corrected on so I'll expect not to see it repeated again.

The pension issue is a major issue, not just with the public sector, the pension levy goes in some way to help with for the future. I'd say they'll be asked to pay more and private sector workers will be asked for a compulsory deduction, but that's a Government policy decision.

why don't they just axe the public sector defined benefit pension (obviously they would keep what they currently have), axe the pension levy and let the workers look after their own pension

not yet

fliball123 wrote: »

And yet the PS made such a racket that they got 2 bouts of benchmarking...Dont hear you guys asking to be benchmarked again when things have hit the ****s

The 7% pay cut was in effect reverse benchmarking....then again thats noyt good enough for some people, the same people who would have PS workers pay cut by 40% as I've read on these forums.