Galway overtaken by Limerick?

beardybrewer

I always knew this was a skewed statistic having lived in Limerick, but I understood that Galway was Ireland's 3rd biggest city. This was clearly down to how they drew the lines in Limerick at the time. Yet I searched online this morning and clearly we're in the number 4 slot. Was I dreaming?

biko

From Wiki:

Galway (Irish: Gaillimh, pronounced [ˈɡalʲɪvʲ]),... It is the third most populous city in the State.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/population/
2006 we were third, is there newer numbers somewhere?

liamhana

Just to let you know that Galway City Council will be doing a workshop on friday the19th in City Hall at 11am on the Census results from 2011. Including small areas - ie estate by estate data!
Details will be on the website today.

Sponge Bob

Lots of Limerick is not in Limerick...is the problem.

Limerick is and always was BIGGER THAN GALWAY.

liamhana

census 2011 - population Galway City = 75,529
Limerick City - 57106

While limerick city's suburbs as a whole incorporates Clare/Limerick county areas, the administrative/electoral area is clearly defined & this is whats counted for censi.
http://census.cso.ie/sapmap/

glineli

liamhana wrote: »

census 2011 - population Galway City = 75,529
Limerick City - 57106

While limerick city's suburbs as a whole incorporates Clare/Limerick county areas, the administrative/electoral area is clearly defined & this is whats counted for censi.
http://census.cso.ie/sapmap/

Leave Clare out of this

dloob

liamhana wrote: »

census 2011 - population Galway City = 75,529
Limerick City - 57106

While limerick city's suburbs as a whole incorporates Clare/Limerick county areas, the administrative/electoral area is clearly defined & this is whats counted for censi.
http://census.cso.ie/sapmap/

Interesting that CSO map includes the future M18 from Gort to Rathmorrissy.

Limericks problem is having major suburbs like Dooradoyle and Castletroy officially part of Co. Limerick and not the city.
The county doesn't want to give up those rates either and they push the development of the Cresent shopping centre to the detriment of the centre of Limerick.

Robbo

biko wrote: »

From Wiki:


http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/population/
2006 we were third, is there newer numbers somewhere?

The 2011 Census are nearly complete.

As has already been pointed out, Limerick City's population has always been an issue due to the turf wars between the local authorities.

Sponge Bob

Robbo wrote: »

Limerick City's population has always been an issue due to the turf wars between the local authorities.

If they copped themselves on it would be about 90,000, 20% larger than Galway City. Could even reach 95000 if given expansion room like Galway City was in the 1980s ( much of which was used up since)

Going by the pre 1985 Boundary Galway would be back to being a lot smaller than Limerick as Knocknatallaght and Roscam and Doughiska and Merlin Park and Gentian Hill and parts of Renmore are returned to the county.

Description of Area

The area forming part of the County Health District of Galway and comprising the townlands of Coolagh, Curragrean and Doughiska in the district electoral division of Ballintemple; the townland of Ballindooly in the district electoral division of Carrowbrowne; the townlands of Ballybaan Beg, Ballybaan More, Ballybrit, Castlegar, Coolagh, Glenanail, Menlough, Merlinpark, Murroogh, Parkmore, Rahylin Glebe, Roscam, Ballagh, Barnacranny, Bushypark, Dangan Lower, Letteragh and Rahoon in the district electoral division of Galway Rural; and the townlands of Ballyburke, Ballymoneen East, Ballymoneen West, Ballynahown East, Barna, Cappagh, Cloonagower, Clybaun, Keeraun, Kimmeenmore, Lenabower, Mincloon, Shanballyduff, Shangort, Acres, Derryloney, Gortnalecka, Knocknacarragh, Pollnaroorna West and Rusheen in the district electoral division of Barna.

kayos

dloob wrote: »

Limericks problem is having major suburbs like Dooradoyle and Castletroy officially part of Co. Limerick and not the city.

And Galway city does not include Barna, Oranmore, Claregalway, Athenry etc...

antoobrien

newkie wrote: »

I always knew this was a skewed statistic having lived in Limerick, but I understood that Galway was Ireland's 3rd biggest city. This was clearly down to how they drew the lines in Limerick at the time. Yet I searched online this morning and clearly we're in the number 4 slot. Was I dreaming?

Limerick "City" is larger when the suburbs are included. The tables below has details from two census tables #115, 116.

Area
| Total | City Area
Limerick|57 km sq | 28.38 km sq
Galway| 53 km sq | 50.00 km sq


Population
| City | Suburbs |Total
Limerick | 57,106 |

34,348

| 91,454
Galway| 75,529 |

1,249

| 76,778


For Galway it appears that the suburbs include small areas near the city boundary as suburbs e.g. Boleybeg & Tonabrukey in the west and Ballintemple & Twomiledtich in the east.

Ficheall

Does it matter?

Playboy

kayos wrote: »

And Galway city does not include Barna, Oranmore, Claregalway, Athenry etc...

lol you cant compare Barna, Claregalway and Athery to Casteltroy... maybe there is an argument for Oranmore

Mrs OBumble

Sponge Bob wrote: »

IKnocknatallaght

Oops, looks like you made a typo in your post.

antoobrien

Playboy wrote: »

lol you cant compare Barna, Claregalway and Athery to Casteltroy... maybe there is an argument for Oranmore

Really - explain then why Castletroy is enumerated as part of the Limerick City and suburbs for census purposes, where none of the towns mentioned above are part of Galway? After all Oranmore & Bearna are as close to the Galway City boundary as Castletroy is to the Limerick City Boundary.

For comparison purposes I've taken two screenshots from the map viewer. Areas in Orange(ish) are the legally defined cities, the purplue colours are the suburbs, browns are nearby settlements/enumerated townlands.

Galway


Limerick

amiable

Yes let's look at a map and decide if Dooradoyle can be compared to Barna

kayos

Playboy wrote: »

lol you cant compare Barna, Claregalway and Athery to Casteltroy... maybe there is an argument for Oranmore

Explain?

amiable

kayos wrote: »

Explain?

Dooradoyle is a massive place that is part of the city and everybody that lives there considers it part of the city.
It's bigger than Knocknacarra by a long way and has a massive Shopping Centre that would be busier than the city centre itself. Therein lies part of the problem.

Anyone who has lived for a considerable time in both cities would agree in my opinion that Limerick is bigger size wise as you drive around it.

But logistically it's Galway City that is the bigger city according to the authorities.

It's no big deal in my opinion. It's just the way it is. As far as I know though County Limerick Council and Limerick City Council will soon amalgamate so Limerick will probably be a bigger city when that happens

Playboy

antoobrien wrote: »

Really - explain then why Castletroy is enumerated as part of the Limerick City and suburbs for census purposes, where none of the towns mentioned above are part of Galway? After all Oranmore & Bearna are as close to the Galway City boundary as Castletroy is to the Limerick City Boundary.

For comparison purposes I've taken two screenshots from the map viewer. Areas in Orange(ish) are the legally defined cities, the purplue colours are the suburbs, browns are nearby settlements/enumerated townlands.

Galway


Limerick

If you have lived in both cities (maybe you have?) you would know that Castletroy and Dooradoyle are essentially part of Limerick city in a similar way that knocknacara is in Galway. Athenry, Barna etc. are total distinct towns that sit outside the city

antoobrien

Playboy wrote: »

If you have lived in both cities (maybe you have?) you would know that Castletroy and Dooradoyle are essentially part of Limerick city in a similar way that knocknacara is in Galway. Athenry, Barna etc. are total distinct towns that sit outside the city

Castletroy & Dooradoyle (Suburbs of Limerick) are enumerated as part of the City, where Bearna & Oranmore (which are now suburbs of Galway) are not. Not exactly comparing like with like.

Athenry is extracting the urine a bit, but there is a case for Claregalway being described as a suburb of Galway.

kayos

Well I've have lived in Limerick and while there lived in Annacotty and worked in Castletroy so I do have some idea of the place.

charlemont

newkie wrote: »

I always knew this was a skewed statistic having lived in Limerick, but I understood that Galway was Ireland's 3rd biggest city. This was clearly down to how they drew the lines in Limerick at the time. Yet I searched online this morning and clearly we're in the number 4 slot. Was I dreaming?

Are you for real ??? Did you ever do Geography in school ?

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

Castletroy & Dooradoyle (Suburbs of Limerick) are enumerated as part of the City

They are not , they are enumerated as two separate EDs ( Ballycummin and Ballysimon) with a population of over 30,000 between them and are shown in purple as settlements on your graphic, turn off settlements and leave on cities ( the orange bit)

City + those two EDs = most of the real city of Limerick. There are other fragments in the Parteen ED to the north in Clare. Put another way, of the 130,000 population of county Limerick 30,000 are ACTUALLY in the City.

The Urban area of Limerick has a population somewhere between 91000 and 93000 or thereabouts and is a lot bigger than Galway although Limerick was twice the size of Galway (or more) until the 1960s.

dloob

kayos wrote: »

Explain?

There are just tiny strips of countryside between Dooradoyle and Castletroy and the city, blink and you'd miss it small if going by car.

Barna and Oranmore on the other hand have a good bit of country side between them and the city.
I'm sure it will close up in time though and they will eventually be considered suburbs.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They are not , they are enumerated as two separate EDs ( Ballycummin and Ballysimon)

According to the map Castletroy is in Ballyvarra not Ballysimon, but that's besides the point because EDs are irrelevant, as they cover multiple independent areas e.g. Ballyvarra includes Annacotty and parts that are considered Limerick Suburbs (by he map). Using the EDs to calculate the urban area will end up bring in extra villages (a bit like bringing say kiltullagh into Galway city becuase part of Ballintemple ED is counted as the city).

Interestingly the Suburb maps that the CSO have put up ignore the county boundaries - Parteen is in Co Clare but counted as a suburb of Limerick - so that isn't skewing it smaller either.

The area mapped (including D & C) matches the population given for Limerick City & suburbs on table 116 - at 91,454.

Robbo

Debating what provincial conurbation Castletroy's in?

Mannix1888

Playboy wrote: »

If you have lived in both cities (maybe you have?) you would know that Castletroy and Dooradoyle are essentially part of Limerick city in a similar way that knocknacara is in Galway. Athenry, Barna etc. are total distinct towns that sit outside the city

I think that's true for Athenry, but increasingly not the case for Barna. Would you consider Oranmore part of Galway City at this stage, I would.

donfers

Having lived in both cites and liked then both there is no doubt in my mind that Limerick city centre is far bigger than Galway city centre, the rest is just politics about what subarbs are and are not included, the central question of which "city" is bigger, if we take out the politics is easy to answer for anyone who has visited both places

c_man

Ficheall wrote: »

Does it matter?

Well it is boards.ie... I've read so many posts from irate Dubs arguing that Tallaght is bigger than either Galway or Limerick. Why not have both sets of our lads team up against them?

ErnieBert

There are way more cops in Limerick than Galway. What does that tell us? Limerick is bigger!

" there are 100 more gardaí in Limerick than in Galway, despite the fact that the Galway borough has the same population as Limerick"
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/1995/11/02/00008.asp


I don't give a toss if Galway is the 37th biggest village in Ireland and Limerick becomes the new capital city. I ain't budging.

amiable

ErnieBert wrote: »

?There are way more cops in Limerick than Galway. What does that tell us? Limerick is bigger!

" there are 100 more gardaí in Limerick than in Galway, despite the fact that the Galway borough has the same population as Limerick"
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/1995/11/02/00008.asp


I don't give a toss if Galway is the 37th biggest village in Ireland and Limerick becomes the new capital city. I ain't budging.

Do you really need to ask that question?

cooperguy

Im from Limerick and have lived in Galway for 4 years. Limerick is undoubtedly bigger than Galway (and to add to the controversy it has a much better market aswell ). Galway however has a much better buzz around the city centre.

Mrs OBumble

liamhana wrote: »

census 2011 - population Galway City = 75,529
Limerick City - 57106
http://census.cso.ie/sapmap/

Ahh, is Dublin one city, or several?

Also don't forget

Belfast - 280962
Derry - 107877
Lisburn- 120165
Newry and Mourne - 99480
Newtownabbey - 85139

(source: 2011 census, NI Statistics and Research Agency. http://www.ninis2.nisra.gov.uk/public/pivotgrid.aspx)

I think that puts us about 9th. Mmm ... except some of the NI figures may include surrounding rural areas, I not sure.

charlemont

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, is Dublin one city, or several?

Also don't forget

Belfast - 280962
Derry - 107877
Lisburn- 120165
Newry and Mourne - 99480
Newtownabbey - 85139

(source: 2011 census, NI Statistics and Research Agency. http://www.ninis2.nisra.gov.uk/public/pivotgrid.aspx)

I think that puts us about 9th. Mmm ... except some of the NI figures may include surrounding rural areas, I not sure.

Well, Those Northern figures do include the rural areas as they are pop stats from the Districts. Except Belfast.

Derry wouldn't be far ahead of Limerick pop wise.

kraggy

antoobrien wrote: »

Castletroy & Dooradoyle (Suburbs of Limerick) are enumerated as part of the City, where Bearna & Oranmore (which are now suburbs of Galway) are not. Not exactly comparing like with like.

Athenry is extracting the urine a bit, but there is a case for Claregalway being described as a suburb of Galway.

There is zero case for Claregalway being part of Galway City. Ditto, Oranmore.

Regardless, Limerick City is much bigger than Galway. There's no debating to be done here. Boundaries don't mean crap when you're talking about traffic, number of schools, shopping etc.

Limerick is bigger. By a good margin. End of.

And yes, I have lived in both.

galwayrush

What does it matter?

pleasant Co.

galwayrush wrote: »

What does it matter?

It only matters to the few people posting in this thread...so not a lot really :pac:

liamhana

kraggy wrote: »

. Boundaries don't mean crap when you're talking about traffic, number of schools, shopping etc.
.

Actually they're the exact reasons that Boundaries do mean 'crap'. Boundaries - city/county zones decide traffic plans/speed zones/ school planning & projections/zonings for shopping centres/housing/funding packages etc.

antoobrien

kraggy wrote: »

There is zero case for Claregalway being part of Galway City. Ditto, Oranmore.

Under the old census rules settlements were defined as areas with groups of dwellings that were within 200m of each other (it's now 100m). Under those rules I could make a good go of finding dwellings that link Ballintemlpe to Claregalway & Doughiska to Oranmore.

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

Under those rules I could make a good go of finding dwellings that link Ballintemlpe to Claregalway & Doughiska to Oranmore.

You could if each is no more than 99m from the next one, off with ya so.

bluecode

ErnieBert wrote: »

There are way more cops in Limerick than Galway. What does that tell us? Limerick is bigger!

" there are 100 more gardaí in Limerick than in Galway, despite the fact that the Galway borough has the same population as Limerick"
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/1995/11/02/00008.asp

Well they need more cops in Limerick. The only shooting going on in Galway city is when the army is out practising on the range in Renmore.:D

kraggy

liamhana wrote: »

Actually they're the exact reasons that Boundaries do mean 'crap'. Boundaries - city/county zones decide traffic plans/speed zones/ school planning & projections/zonings for shopping centres/housing/funding packages etc.

antoobrien wrote: »

Under the old census rules settlements were defined as areas with groups of dwellings that were within 200m of each other (it's now 100m). Under those rules I could make a good go of finding dwellings that link Ballintemlpe to Claregalway & Doughiska to Oranmore.

You're both missing the point. I'm saying that you can in no way consider Galway to be a bigger city than Limerick. If one has to resort to techicalities of census law, then it just shows that there is no contest. Limerick City is bigger than Galway City. Even if you're not talking in terms of Galway v Limerick and are simply addressing my point about Claregalway, then those census rules are old for a reason. They're bull****.

Galway is basically a town in the grand scheme of things. Swallowing up Claregalway or Oranmore isn't going to make a difference in a European, or especially, World context.

And regarding the proximity of dwellings, then one could argue that there are plenty of places outside of Limerick that aren't considered part of the city that would adhere to those very same rules therefore making Limerick City even larger again.

liamhana

ah but the census is a technical document - maths/stats/graphs/co-efficiencies etc...within the boundary of Limerick City Council the pop is 53000, within the boundary of galway city council the boundary is 75000. Any other 'add-ons' are irrelevant...


Adding areas shouldnt be considered for either city - oranmore/claregalway (both galway county council) or annacotty (limerick coco) or Parteen (clare) is irrelevant...there's no way clare will let parteen go and most people in Parteen use the Clare address & they dont want to 'be from' limerick!

Sponge Bob

Most of Parteen is in Clare but if they permit Limerick sprawl at the southern tip they deserve to lose that bit to Limerick

Daisy78

Doesn't really matter which is bigger. Galway is by far the nicer city, its.pointless comparing the two. Limerick is a ****hole regardless of its size.

Straight Talker

Daisy78 wrote: »

Doesn't really matter which is bigger. Galway is by far the nicer city, its.pointless comparing the two. Limerick is a ****hole regardless of its size.

I actually quite Limerick and im not from either Limerick or Galway.Despite the hype about crime i find it to be a nicer and safer city than Dublin and no worse than Cork or Galway.I quite like the layout of it's streets and i've always found the locals to be very friendly.I have never had any bad experiences in the city centre anyway.Of course Galway is better marketed in Limerick and as such people dismiss Limerick without even visiting it.That's their loss because imo Limerick is just as good as Dublin Waterford and Galway although it wouldn't be as good as Cork.:pac:

charlemont

bluecode wrote: »

Well they need more cops in Limerick. The only shooting going on in Galway city is when the army is out practising on the range in Renmore.:D

Renmore brings back memories, I fired a Gustov smg on that range by the beach.

beardybrewer

Straight Talker wrote: »

Galway is better marketed in Limerick and as such people dismiss Limerick without even visiting it.

Limerick's problems are overstated but there is no doubt in my mind, having lived in both cities, Galway has a verve and vibe that Limerick does not. I think it's the better integrated student population (and that's the last kind thing I'll say about them). That said I was less frustrated by traffic, weather, and day to day chores like shopping in Limerick.

Greaney

I think all that answers the original posters question. I had wondered about Galway overtaking Limerick and that exlplains it for me, with knobs on

KKBL

During the winter Galway City would probably have a bigger population than Limerick City due to the massive amount of students who move into Galway for the college year.

amiable

KKBL wrote: »

During the winter Galway City would probably have a bigger population than Limerick City due to the massive amount of students who move into Galway for the college year.

Source?