Seems Michael Collins and Padraig Pearse were gay?

tomtherobot

I found myself leafing through yesterdays Irish Times (it's pretty ****e i know) and found an excerpt from David Norris book, he's talking about the gay right movement in Ireland and goes on to strongly suggest that Roger Casement, Padraig Pearse, Michael Collins and Eoin O'Duffy were gay.

Now personally I don't have a homophobic bone in my body (stop) but isn't it a bit weird outing people like this when there dead? Also, I'd love to know what the republicans here think of this?

I know its been widely suggested before that Roger Casement was gay but the other three came as a bit of a shock to me. For one thing i want me money back from the Liam Neeson/Julia Roberts movie. Damn you Hollywood lies....

wes

I can't say that it really matters either way to me.

Mr. Boo

Not that weird. He might be dead, but we all know Haughey focked the whole country.

El Weirdo

I thought that rumours of Eoin O'Duffy being gay were widely known?

Blueshirtlifter.

Nodin

Casement, yes. Pearse, maybe, mabye not. O'Duffy, yes - thats out a while.

Collins though? Never heard that before. I'd like to know what he's basing it on.

p.oconnor

So what if he was Gay .... the man was a fcuking legend END OF!

PhlegmyMoses

Pearse wrote some fairly homoerotic poetry. Wouldn't be a surprise.

sam34

I thought the padraig pearse rumour was quite commonly known, tbh. hadn't heard the other ones though.

1ZRed

Given the source, he could just be looking into things that weren't there but I'd say it could always have been a possibility but not mentioned considering being gay was illegal and heavily punishable back then.
We'll never know though.

In my own family on my grandad's side, they were soldiers and very high up in the army as well. A few of my great uncles never married at all and considering they were good looking men it makes me wonder were they. In fact, I think that's were I got the gene from that influenced my sexuality. But again, it's easy to assume considering I'll never know.

brummytom

OP, any chance you could copy some of the excerpt?

EDIT: Found it

Other heroes of Irish nationalism were also less than 100 per cent heterosexual ... An elderly man came in one night who had been visiting Sinn Féin’s headquarters three doors down.

He had fought in the Civil War more than half a century before and claimed to have been one of Michael Collins’s principal boyfriends. I mentioned this to a well-known popular historian of the period, who confirmed that this was generally known in certain republican circles, who were deeply uncomfortable about it. Well, if Michael Collins was gay, or bisexual – so what? Who cares? It shouldn’t matter as it is just a neutral fact. It certainly isn’t a slur, and the vast majority of the Irish people no longer regard it as such.

Anyway, this all lessened the surprise when it emerged recently that another absurdly macho figure, the leader of the Blueshirts, General Eoin O’Duffy, had been embroiled in a long affair with the great Irish actor Micheál Mac Liammóir.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1008/1224325013269.html

Well that's pretty conclusive proof. A random old man, and an unnamed historian. And it's not like Norris has ever lied before.

Damathon111

Do you know that homosexuality was decriminalized in 1993 or around that time? It's amazing how backward Ireland is for a supposed-first world country.

Guy:Incognito

Could'nt have been gay, sure wasnt he riding Julia Roberts.

TeddyTedson

No no no, Collins wasn't gay. I've seen the film.

Riddle101

I've heard the rumor about Micheal Collins being gay. But wasn't he engaged? I heard O'Duffy was gay too. Never heard about Pearce or Casement though.

Thrill

"strongly suggest" "widely suggested" "rumour" "possibility"

Heh, what more proof do we need.

Seaneh

David Norris in "everyone was gay" statement shocker...

3ndahalfof6

Fantasy, fantasy, fantasy, dear David, but if it filled your sock so be it.

tomtherobot

brummytom wrote: »

OP, any chance you could copy some of the excerpt?

"Other heroes of Irish nationalism were also less than 100 per cent heterosexual ... An elderly man came in one night who had been visiting Sinn Féin’s headquarters three doors down.
He had fought in the Civil War more than half a century before and claimed to have been one of Michael Collins’s principal boyfriends. I mentioned this to a well-known popular historian of the period, who confirmed that this was generally known in certain republican circles, who were deeply uncomfortable about it. Well, if Michael Collins was gay, or bisexual – so what? Who cares? It shouldn’t matter as it is just a neutral fact. It certainly isn’t a slur, and the vast majority of the Irish people no longer regard it as such.
Anyway, this all lessened the surprise when it emerged recently that another absurdly macho figure, the leader of the Blueshirts, General Eoin O’Duffy, had been embroiled in a long affair with the great Irish actor Micheál Mac Liammóir."

TeddyTedson

He may have been engaged, but it wasn't that long ago when Freddie Mercury was married to a woman either.
I don't think people were openly gay 100 years ago :P

I'd be willing to bet at least one boardies father is secretly gay.
My friends Dad is openly gay but only for about 15 years.
I still think his wife must have known...everyone else did.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

No way was Collins gay, our uniforms would be much fancier if he had been gay.

Aenaes

Collins was engaged and reported to be head over heels in love by his close friends.
In a couple of biographies of him it's suggested he was pretty successful with the ladies during his time spent in London.

Just seen he might have been gay OR bi-sexual so the above doesn't really matter. Maybe he was secretly ginger too? Oh well, I guess Frongoch wouldn't have helped.

I think Norris is just fishing for reactions.

1ZRed

It wouldn't surprise me if they might all be gay/bi. Some older people seem to think that everyone was straight back then when in fact the percentage of gay people has never changed, even now.
People just weren't aware of it because it was carefully hidden. I'd say there was bound to be a good few high profile leaders of the time who were actually gay or bi but were closeted for obvious reasons.

Maire2009

benwavner wrote: »

No way was Collins gay, our uniforms would be much fancier if he had been gay.

Only if he was Louis Spence gay

tayto lover

I heard that David Norris was straight.

Nodin

tomtherobot wrote: »

"Other heroes of Irish nationalism were also less than 100 per cent heterosexual ... An elderly man came in one night who had been visiting Sinn Féin’s headquarters three doors down.
He had fought in the Civil War more than half a century before and claimed to have been one of Michael Collins’s principal boyfriends. I mentioned this to a well-known popular historian of the period, who confirmed that this was generally known in certain republican circles, who were deeply uncomfortable about it. Well, if Michael Collins was gay, or bisexual – so what? Who cares? It shouldn’t matter as it is just a neutral fact. It certainly isn’t a slur, and the vast majority of the Irish people no longer regard it as such.
Anyway, this all lessened the surprise when it emerged recently that another absurdly macho figure, the leader of the Blueshirts, General Eoin O’Duffy, had been embroiled in a long affair with the great Irish actor Micheál Mac Liammóir."

What better way to get attention than to say that you've shagged a famous character.....

I suggest its wishful thinking on the part of Norris. After the split over the treaty their would have been no hesitation in opening the gob then. I've never heard a hint of this, ever.

TeddyTedson

Shure aren't we all bisexual

Nodin

tayto lover wrote: »

I heard that David Norris was straight.

An old woman came in one night and told me he was a divil for the wimmin allright, and that she was one of his favourites.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Maire2009 wrote: »

Only if he was Louis Spence gay

Thats proper gay!

Nodin

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Shure aren't we all bisexual

Only if we're staying in your gaf and miss the bus.

martic

Pearse,Collins and O'Duffy are Gays :eek: and there was me thinking Daffyd Norris was thee only gay in the village

Nodin

benwavner wrote: »

Thats proper gay!

Ye can't imagine a louis spence level gay collins surviving long on the run though.....

Hazys

tomtherobot wrote: »

Also, I'd love to know what the republicans here think of this?

Why specifically republicans?

IvySlayer

I hate the way every single historical figure has some source claiming they were gay. Kitty Kieran, his fiance would say different....

Nodin

Hazys wrote: »

Why specifically republicans?

He might think its 1930 in Republicanland and we'll have a cry or something? Bit odd he included O'Duffy in the list though....

efb

I'll be dreaming of the burly Corconian tonight so!!!

tomtherobot

tayto lover wrote: »

I heard that David Norris was straight.

I heard he got a young lady in trouble once.....

He told her mother she'd been smoking.

3ndahalfof6

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Shure aren't we all bisexual

If this statement means I love wimmins, it is correct.

Mr. Boo

Could make for some gritty fan fiction.

Nodin

IvySlayer wrote: »

I hate the way every single historical figure has some source claiming they were gay. Kitty Kieran, his fiance would say different....

Kitty Kiernan, well known lesbian and raconteur?

tayto lover

IvySlayer wrote: »

I hate the way every single historical figure has some source claiming they were gay. Kitty Kieran, his fiance would say different....

She must have been gay too

beaver111

who gives a ****

Shryke

I don't know what's with the gay assumption. If a man was engaged to a woman you would call it evidence he liked women. If some random guy spreads a rumor Collins was gay then it becomes a more likely case?
I couldn't care less what he preferred but I hope he played with everything. And if he didn't then maybe he wasn't as sex obsessed as some people. I don't know why people have to go on like this, it's rampant in the year 2012 ffs. A persons sex life is their own. Speculation is for assholes.

tomtherobot

Hazys wrote: »

Why specifically republicans?

Yup you've caught me on a generalization but surely most people would see that republicanism is widely associated with Catholicism and sectarian violence. While that doesn't apply to all republicans i think it's fair to say it's a common perception and one somewhat at odds with gay culture.

Lapin

I couldn't care less if they were gay or not.

What písses me off are people like Norris outing people almost a century after they are dead.

Whats his agenda?

I doubt most hetrosexual people really care.

Why are gay people so obsessed with other peoples sexuality?
What business is it of theirs (or anyone elses) if Roger Casement rogered his own ?

brummytom

tomtherobot wrote: »

Yup you've caught me on a generalization but surely most people would see that republicanism is widely associated with Catholicism and sectarian violence. While that doesn't apply to all republicans i think it's fair to say it's a common perception and one somewhat at odds with gay culture.

Republicans are far more open-minded than loyalists, though (generalisation, yes. Wrong? No).

LuciusPax

Every so often someone comes out with one of these 'revelations' about famous historical figures. Like Hitler enjoyed golden showers or Ghengis khan was a cross dresser. It's nearly always because they are trying to flog a book or something and they need to bring something new to the table. Besides like others have mentioned who cares if they were gay?....though it would have been fantastic to see Patrick Pearse read the 'Proclamation of the irish Republic' in a ferociously camp voice.

IvySlayer

LuciusPax wrote: »

Every so often someone comes out with one of these 'revelations' about famous historical figures. Like Hitler enjoyed golden showers or Ghengis khan was a cross dresser. It's nearly always because they are trying to flog a book or something and they need to bring something new to the table. Besides like others have mentioned who cares if they were gay?....though it would have been fantastic to see Patrick Pearse read the 'Proclamation of the irish Republic' in a ferociously camp voice.

Maybe he was so good at fashion, they had to shoot him :P

Praetorian Saighdiuir

IvySlayer wrote: »

Maybe he was so good at fashion, they had to shoot him :P

Oooh too soon. Thats bad form altogether.

CreepingDeath

It would explain the camp IRA berets and leather gloves.

Nodin

tomtherobot wrote: »

Yup you've caught me on a generalization but surely most people would see that republicanism is widely associated with Catholicism and sectarian violence. While that doesn't apply to all republicans i think it's fair to say it's a common perception and one somewhat at odds with gay culture.

Sinn Fein advocatied legalising gay marriage before any other major party, afaik. You'd want to be a bit more specific in your allegations.

3ndahalfof6

Hazys wrote: »

Why specifically republicans?

It is probably because he was one.