Creationism: Conspiracy Road Trip (BBC3 9pm tonight)

MagicMarker

Sounds interesting.

Comedian Andrew Maxwell take five British creationists to the west coast of America to try and convince them that evolution, rather than creationism, explains how we all got here...

No idea why they have to go to America, but sure any excuse eh?

Daftendirekt

I hope he brings plenty of aspirin with him. He'll need it after banging his head on that particular wall.

robindch

Some Guy wrote:

Comedian Andrew Maxwell [...]

Oh that it were Andy Hamilton, Sandy Toksvig or Stephen Fry.

Still, at least the Beeb's done the right thing and picked a comedian to look into creationism.

doctoremma

Apologies for this possibly utterly ridiculous question but....you get the BBC there, on normal telly? I've watched lots of Irish TV and never really taken notice (so obviously not watched it closely). I remember my grandad used to watch loads of snooker so that was probably BBC. Do you get all of our channels?

*searches Sky for RTE channels*

Sin City

doctoremma wrote: »

Apologies for this possibly utterly ridiculous question but....you get the BBC there, on normal telly? I've watched lots of Irish TV and never really taken notice (so obviously not watched it closely). I remember my grandad used to watch loads of snooker so that was probably BBC. Do you get all of our channels?

*searches Sky for RTE channels*

We do ineed Doc


Saw his other one about 911 and the conspiracy theorists where he showed them how ridiculous they were

MagicMarker

doctoremma wrote: »

Apologies for this possibly utterly ridiculous question but....you get the BBC there, on normal telly? I've watched lots of Irish TV and never really taken notice (so obviously not watched it closely). I remember my grandad used to watch loads of snooker so that was probably BBC. Do you get all of our channels?

*searches Sky for RTE channels*

Yep, BBC 1/2/3/4, CH4, More 4, E4, UTV (ITV) etc...

MagicMarker

I already hate these people.

doctoremma

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yep, BBC 1/2/3/4, CH4, More 4, E4, UTV (ITV) etc...

Sorry, another Q. When you buy a new TV and auto tune, does BBC One go to the first channel (1, 101, whatever)?

Sin City

doctoremma wrote: »

Sorry, another Q. When you buy a new TV and auto tune, does BBC One go to the first channel (1, 101, whatever)?

No , at the races is (if you still got channels without a box) Then its RTE 1 2 etc. BBc starts after them

Liamario

I'm looking at it now and I feel like every word out of their mouths has been intelligently designed to piss me off!

krudler

doctoremma wrote: »

Apologies for this possibly utterly ridiculous question but....you get the BBC there, on normal telly? I've watched lots of Irish TV and never really taken notice (so obviously not watched it closely). I remember my grandad used to watch loads of snooker so that was probably BBC. Do you get all of our channels?

*searches Sky for RTE channels*

only recently though, we used to have BBC shows transcribed and sent over via telegram, we'd gather round the village fire and be aghast at tales of time travelling doctors and middle aged men driving really elaborate cars.

doctoremma

krudler wrote: »

only recently though, we used to have BBC shows transcribed and sent over via telegram, we'd gather round the village fire and be aghast at tales of time travelling doctors and middle aged men driving really elaborate cars.

I thought as much.

Ectoplasm

Oh man I spotted this thread and turned on. Gaaah! It is an exercise in frustration...I'm not 100% sure I can watch all of this. My tv is in danger of getting something thrown through it.

FouxDaFaFa

Andrew Maxwell? Hmmmm...

Missed the start of this but may take a look later if you guys think it's worth it.

I'm kind of disappointed every time there's a documentary and Louis Theroux isn't there.

Obliq

Oh boy. I'm losing the will to live watching this. But I will persevere in the name of fair-mindedness.

Obliq

doctoremma wrote: »

Apologies for this possibly utterly ridiculous question but....you get the BBC there, on normal telly? I've watched lots of Irish TV and never really taken notice (so obviously not watched it closely). I remember my grandad used to watch loads of snooker so that was probably BBC. Do you get all of our channels?

*searches Sky for RTE channels*

In Dublin only I think, via analogue (digital now?). In the west here, so have free-to-air satellite channels. RTE not on that of course. All bbc's, itv's and channel 4,5, film4, etc. HD too, yay!

Liamario

That show has given me a migraine.
The Northern Ireland guy needs his head kicked in- he wasn't there for truth, but to reaffirm his own ignorance. He didn't get the reaffirmation, so he decided to ignore it and put his fingers in his ears.

The two girls are the only ones with any hope. So frustrating to watch.

Obliq

I wouldn't go that far....he was set in his beliefs alright, but looking at his eyes, all I could see was fear masked by defensiveness. The girls were open, but also scared. I felt for the black-haired one who was so worried that if she questioned creationism, it would open the door to questioning her whole belief system. Well, yes.....that is the problem.

JuliusCaesar

Belief/faith and science are worlds apart, as Father (Professor) O'Doherty used to tell us when we were designing experiments at university.

Craptacular

Sin City wrote: »

Saw his other one about 911 and the conspiracy theorists where he showed them how ridiculous they were

It was the London attacks on 7/7.

Andrew was on a loser here. 7/7 conspiracies are opinions that can be analysed and have the flaws exposed. Creationism is faith based and that's a different kettle of logic & evidence resistant fish.

Delirium

Show is now up on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oju_lpqa6Ug

joseph brand

Well I enjoyed watching this Creationism Road Trip. Maxwell did well, by not pushing the evidence on them too much, just letting the evidence speak for itself, aided slightly by real-life experts in separate fields.

That 'Northie' Phil was his typical self. He's either very dumb or just enjoys getting paid to peddle tripe. A sinister character.

‘You exert an air of subtle menace,’ Maxwell told Phil

I almost feel sorry for Sam. Young and deluded, he looks up to Phil. My guess, is that Sam wants to get into Phil's pants.

At least Maxwell admitted that it would be near impossible to change their minds over the course of the trip, but still, he may have sown some seeds of doubt. Especially amongst viewers watching at home.

Zamboni

I like Maxwell and I dislike New Earth Creationists...

..but what a completely utterly futile pointless program.

jackofalltrades

Good point in the video at 51:50 where the Professor of Astrophysics puts Phil in his place.

Liamario

Phil was a complete and utter douche. I found it both irritating and hilarious that he was disappointed that they never spoke to a creationist geologist.
That's like asking to speak to a cabbage that walks.

5uspect

That northern guy was a right creep.

gaius c

5uspect wrote: »

That northern guy was a right creep.

Went proper mental about the gay thing, didn't he?
Bit of a closet case maybe?

mewso

gaius c wrote: »

Went proper mental about the gay thing, didn't he?
Bit of a closet case maybe?

That avatar had me doing a double-take at your comment gaius as another well known poster using that avatar would no doubt be defending him I see Maxwell did the same thing with 11/9 and 7/7 conspiracy folks. Just as frustrating to watch but entertaining none the less (all on youtube). I like that Maxwell isn't too overbearing but shows his exasperation just as we might be feeling it.

Corkfeen

Repeat of it just started for anyone that missed it, BBC 3. One thing that is already standing out to me already is the fact that they misunderstand the fundamentals of the likes of evolution so much....

mewso

Corkfeen wrote: »

Repeat of it just started for anyone that missed it, BBC 3. One thing that is already standing out to me already is the fact that they misunderstand the fundamentals of the likes of evolution so much....

Like so many of these people they misunderstand the fundamentals of science never mind evolution.

Corkfeen

mewso wrote: »

Like so many of these people they misunderstand the fundamentals of science never mind evolution.

Indeed, they basically boil inexplicable topics down to 'Well, the thing is god changed physics(Or biology and chemistry) for the day'. I watched his conspiracy theory one from last week and he did manage to change some of their viewpoints but creationists are always going to be a losing battle.

Jimoslimos

Liamario wrote: »

Phil was a complete and utter douche. I found it both irritating and hilarious that he was disappointed that they never spoke to a creationist geologist.
That's like asking to speak to a cabbage that walks.

The irony that he tries to accuse the directors of bullying him yet attempts to direct the others into what they say.

Watching it now, what a nutcase, a dangerous one.

gaius c

mewso wrote: »

That avatar had me doing a double-take at your comment gaius as another well known poster using that avatar would no doubt be defending him I see Maxwell did the same thing with 11/9 and 7/7 conspiracy folks. Just as frustrating to watch but entertaining none the less (all on youtube). I like that Maxwell isn't too overbearing but shows his exasperation just as we might be feeling it.

Just picked the avatar at the top of the pile because I couldn't see an option to upload my own.

krudler

that guy from Norn Iron, fcuk me what a tool.

shizz

I think i remember him being on some talk show in england if anyone remembers? Pretty sure i saw the clip here.

the_monkey

I love this argument - that dinosaurs and man co-existed -

"No doubt there would have been fatalities with T-rex and men, just as
there are fatalities today with men and lions"


Brilliant


She should be a detective.

mewso

gaius c wrote: »

Just picked the avatar at the top of the pile because I couldn't see an option to upload my own.

Ah I say keep it. Make it your own. I think uploading avatars is only available to fools like me that give boards money.

Galvasean

the_monkey wrote: »

I love this argument - that dinosaurs and man co-existed -

"No doubt there would have been fatalities with T-rex and men, just as
there are fatalities today with men and lions"


Brilliant


She should be a detective.

You'd think, given how often lions show up in the Bible, T. rex would get more mentions. Why it's almost as if the lion was the mightiest/scariest predator they could find...

Galvasean

Galvasean wrote: »

You'd think, given how often lions show up in the Bible, T. rex would get more mentions. Why it's almost as if the lion was the mightiest/scariest predator they could find...

Duh, cause the T. Rex was a scavenger. And now the bible proves it.

Galvasean

Oddly I did once see a Creationist argue that T. rex not being in the Bible was evidence that it existed at the time. You see, so fearsome was its reputation that people gave it a wide berth.

TruthToTell

The Qur’an is the final revelation from god to humanity. The Qur’an is not primarily a science book, but it does contain scientific facts that have been scientifically discovered only recently through the advancement of technological equipment. Indeed, studying and understanding the nature of creation enables people to further appreciate their creator and the extent of his Sovereignty. Some examples follow:

1- Human embryonic development

In the Qur’an, god speaks about the stages of man’s embryonic development: “We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)...” (Qur’an, 23:12-14)

The Arabic word alaqah has three meanings: (1) leech – when comparing a leech to an embryo in the alaqah stage, we find similarities. Also, the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to a leech . (2) suspended thing. (3) blood clot – the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage are similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage.

The next stage mentioned is the mudghah stage which means “chewed substance.” If one were to chew a piece of gum and compare it to the embryo at this stage, we would conclude that the embryo resembles a chewed substance.This is due to somites (cells that form the vertebrae) at the back of the embryo that, according to Dr. Moore and Persaud, “somewhat resemble teeth marks in a chewed substance.”

2- The Creation of living beings from water
“Allah created every [living] creature from water. Some of them go on their bellies, some of them on two legs, and some on four.Allah creates whatever He wills. Allah has power over all things.”(Qur’an, 24:45)

Water is the main component of organic matter.Between 50-90% of the weight of living things consists of water.Furthermore, 80% of the cytoplasm (basic cell material) is water.The analysis of cytoplasm took place hundreds of years after the revelation of the Qur’an.

3- Mountains As Stabilisers
Mountains play an important role in stabilising the crust of the earth, by hindering its shaking. God has said:
“And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you...”(Qur’an, 16:15)

Likewise,the modern theory of plate tectonics agrees that mountains work as stabilisers for the earth.The knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilisers has just begun to be understood by scientists in the framework of plate tectonics.

What do modern scientists say?

Dr Keith L. Moore, Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology, was associate dean of basic sciences at the faculty of medicine as well as the chairman of the department of anatomy. He is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person.

During one conference, Professor Moore stated:
“It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur’an about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.”

After all these examples mentioned and others not mentioned due to space limitations, Can you ask yourself these two questions:

- Could it be a coincidence that all this recently discovered scientific information was mentioned in the Qur’an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago?

- Could this Qur’an have been authored by Muhammad or by any other human being?

The only possible answer is that this Qur’an must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him.

Galvasean

I must have missed that bit where science says that man is made from clay...

Sarky

TruthToTell wrote: »

The only possible answer is that this Qur’an must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him.

You're forgetting the possibility that the Qur'an is total bollocks made up by a series of nutjobs who spent too much time in the sun. There's nothing there about biology that couldn't be discovered by, oh I don't know, cutting apart non-believers and unmarried mothers because the laws at the time were brutal and stupid.

Skrynesaver

TruthToTell wrote: »

1- Human embryonic development

This is a rehash of Hamza Tzortzis’ “paper”, Embryology in the Qur’an: A scientific-linguistic analysis of chapter 23: With responses to historical, scientific & popular contentions. Which is an obsessive reworking of 2 sentences in the Qur'an. A genuine refutation of that paper is available here and can be read by those with an open mind on the subject.

TruthToTell wrote: »

2- The Creation of living beings from water

Really, the observation that animals are damp and squishy is a divine revelation?

TruthToTell wrote: »

3- Mountains As Stabilisers

Ah go on, you're having a laugh now...

TruthToTell wrote: »

- Could it be a coincidence that all this recently discovered scientific information was mentioned in the Qur’an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago?

Any book as vague and florid as a religious text is open to re-interpretation in the light of new knowledge, this allows us to re-frame the original words as representing something beyond the knowledge of the original author.

TruthToTell wrote: »

- Could this Qur’an have been authored by Muhammad or by any other human being?

Well not Muhammad, no, seeing as he was an illiterate warlord, if he actually existed, but certainly it could have been written by a human being of the time.

Penn

Galvasean wrote: »

Oddly I did once see a Creationist argue that T. rex not being in the Bible was evidence that it existed at the time. You see, so fearsome was its reputation that people gave it a wide berth.

T Rex > Satan.

krudler

TruthToTell wrote: »

The Qur’an is the final revelation from god to humanity. The Qur’an is not primarily a science book, but it does contain scientific facts that have been scientifically discovered only recently through the advancement of technological equipment. Indeed, studying and understanding the nature of creation enables people to further appreciate their creator and the extent of his Sovereignty. Some examples follow:

I thought it was that Twink is actually a giant lizard in a human disguise.

Dades

TruthToTell gone for spamming.

joseph brand

shizz wrote: »

I think i remember him being on some talk show in england if anyone remembers? Pretty sure i saw the clip here.

Here's his web****e.

Phil Robinson gained his Bachelor of Education degree from Stranmillis University College in Religious Studies, with a subsidiary in Physical Education and has a Masters of Divinity degree from Union Theological College.

To put it in layman's terms, a P.E teacher full of horsesh1t!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sP63mfn0gg

I never seen anyone so uptight and stiff. The man has issues.

Phil, who is a creationist, knows that all the; geologists, biologists, astronomers, physicists, archaeologists et al are wrong and/ or lying.

One can see from his vacant stare that, 'the lights are on, but there's nobody home'. He definitely needs some man-to-man love. I'm sure Maxwell could hook him up with Sam. Creationist Blind Date!

ShooterSF

joseph brand wrote: »

Here's his web****e.



To put it in layman's terms, a P.E teacher full of horsesh1t!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sP63mfn0gg

Watched the conspiracy episode last night and found him annoying, but this, wow I got 1 minute 55s in and he claimed that natural selection opposes evolution because you can only select from what already exists. Did he even read the cliff notes of Darwin's work. Even a one page summary would clear that issue up for him.

krudler

At least the two girls on the show were somewhat "ok maybe there's more to this" at the end, but Phil was still with his "no! word of god!" reasoning, despite being shown in front of his eyes how basic physics and geology works, oh except that day when god changed the rules for the lulz, its baffling to be so blinkered in your views.

iDave

Watched it on BBC3 last night. Atheist myself but dont post here usually but feel compelled to do so now.
All i can say is how sad it is young bright people turning their back on blatent facts staring them in the face. Whats gone so wrong in their lives and communities they come from that makes them so repulsed by such a simple notion as evidence.