Bit of advice please regarding problem hunters

venger

Hi folks,

I live on the boarder between Fermanagh and Monaghan, quite rurally.

We have a regular problem of hunting dogs running across our land (by land im more referring to drive, yard and gardens rather than actual fields, although we are surrounded by fields.)

They really upset my own pet dogs, have mauled my childrens chickens in the past (pet chickens with names, not just replacement chickens to eat) and mean I have to keep my kids inside until the dogs have gone.

Is there anything at all that can be done? The people who own the dogs are usually nowhere to be seen, and on a rare occasion today I spotted them and went to tell them to control the dogs they surrounded me and tried to intimidate me telling me they are doing nothing wrong and have rights to be out.

This same crowd dont seem to care much for their own dogs, one was recently howling in the back field for 24 hrs, with an obviously damaged leg while the owners had long since called it a day.

Im not here to debate the pro's and con's with you hunting enthusiasts, im sure that has been done to death on these boards. Just looking for some advise or suggestions please. As much as I might disagree with what others chose to do for sport, I also know that there are many responsible, approachable people locally who do get involved. This crowd today of 5 or 6 said they are not in a club or organised (he actually said "nothing is organised these days" no doubt to avoid telling me if they were a club)

The most frustrating thing is they couldnt care less, it was literally like trying to debate with a child who just repeats the question back. If they had said they will try harder to control them, or release them further away from my house I could have lived with that. As I said though, they made it clear they couldnt care less and were more interested in trying to intimidate me away.

Would appreciate any thoughts

Thanks

bazza888

get the registrations if they have vehicles and call the guards if they are in your garden

venger

Thanks, one fella deliberately blocked it when I was arguing with them but ill try and get it next time.

We are just on the Northern side of the boarder and the police were not interested at all when we called them in the past.

garv123

They have absolutely no right to let the dogs into your garden even though some people with dogs think their dogs have the right to enter every single field/house and wreck the place while they are at it.

They obviously have crap dogs that they have no control over for starters because most hunts can control their dogs.

First thing would be to contact who owns the fields around the house and he'll be able to tell you which club/group has permission to be on his land.
They could easily lose the permission too if you inform them they are using your garden to cross his land.

If they enter your garden again you can contact the dog warden too.. and if they dont control their dogs contact the gardai.

There are a lot people out there who hunt with dogs and give all of the hunts a bad name..

EPointer=Birdss

venger wrote: »

Hi folks,

I live on the boarder between Fermanagh and Monaghan, quite rurally.

We have a regular problem of hunting dogs running across our land (by land im more referring to drive, yard and gardens rather than actual fields, although we are surrounded by fields.)

They really upset my own pet dogs, have mauled my childrens chickens in the past (pet chickens with names, not just replacement chickens to eat) and mean I have to keep my kids inside until the dogs have gone.

Is there anything at all that can be done? The people who own the dogs are usually nowhere to be seen, and on a rare occasion today I spotted them and went to tell them to control the dogs they surrounded me and tried to intimidate me telling me they are doing nothing wrong and have rights to be out.

This same crowd dont seem to care much for their own dogs, one was recently howling in the back field for 24 hrs, with an obviously damaged leg while the owners had long since called it a day.

Im not here to debate the pro's and con's with you hunting enthusiasts, im sure that has been done to death on these boards. Just looking for some advise or suggestions please. As much as I might disagree with what others chose to do for sport, I also know that there are many responsible, approachable people locally who do get involved. This crowd today of 5 or 6 said they are not in a club or organised (he actually said "nothing is organised these days" no doubt to avoid telling me if they were a club)

The most frustrating thing is they couldnt care less, it was literally like trying to debate with a child who just repeats the question back. If they had said they will try harder to control them, or release them further away from my house I could have lived with that. As I said though, they made it clear they couldnt care less and were more interested in trying to intimidate me away.

Would appreciate any thoughts

Thanks

A one off incident could be an accident & I'd let it slide. This doesn't appear to be the case! First time out I would however have done what you did as regards confront them. You'll get all sorts of comments here about don't confront them they could be dangerous etc etc but personally i don't live in fear in my own home.

After that the next time a dog entered my land & killed chickens etc it would be shot where it stood! Mods spare me any warnings but as far as I'm concerned it's legal to protect livestock. Reality is it could be kids playing out there the next day!

After that call the guards, get video evidence yada yada

venger

Thanks for the replies, the main concern is nobody wants to bring trouble to their own doorstep. Ill get plates and try to get video of it.

A farmer up the road has told us he would come shoot them if they attacked the chickens again but its not really practical. They dont usually hangaround for long and to be honest I would feel terrible - I dont blame the dogs at all and im a dog owner myself.

I text the guy who owns the field next door, the dogs had caused his cows to charge trying to get back inside. I dont know the first thing about farming but seem to remember hearing or reading that cows can cause themselves very serious problems when running out of shock.

We seem to have exhausted most options. I think the nearest dog warden is about 30 miles away in Enniskillen.

I try not to dwell on it but the issue comes up every month or two as these scumbags let the dogs run riot across our property. I asked one guy how he would feel if I started causing trouble outside his house, upsetting his family and like a 5 year old child he said "I wouldnt mind"

juice1304

I would go out with a camera and video record the dogs and then confront them they won't be long shutting up if you have a camera. Make sure to make it very obvious you are recording their reg

EPointer=Birdss

See your problem is you can't have a civilized conversation with people that decide they can freely break the laws of civilized society.
Therefore you need to ask yourself - if I were an ignorant f@*k who thinks I can go where I want & snigger at anyone that says otherwise - what would it take to turn me off repeating the offense.
Rationale discussion is not in their vocabulary so your wasting your time!

ace86

Is it hounds they have or is it springers and the likes? I know hounds are alot more harder to control when they are out and about but regardless there should be someone in place to watch them and make sure they are causing no disturbances to anyone or livestock.

deerhunter1

venger wrote: »

Hi folks,

I live on the boarder between Fermanagh and Monaghan, quite rurally.

We have a regular problem of hunting dogs running across our land (by land im more referring to drive, yard and gardens rather than actual fields, although we are surrounded by fields.)

They really upset my own pet dogs, have mauled my childrens chickens in the past (pet chickens with names, not just replacement chickens to eat) and mean I have to keep my kids inside until the dogs have gone.

Is there anything at all that can be done? The people who own the dogs are usually nowhere to be seen, and on a rare occasion today I spotted them and went to tell them to control the dogs they surrounded me and tried to intimidate me telling me they are doing nothing wrong and have rights to be out.

This same crowd dont seem to care much for their own dogs, one was recently howling in the back field for 24 hrs, with an obviously damaged leg while the owners had long since called it a day.

Im not here to debate the pro's and con's with you hunting enthusiasts, im sure that has been done to death on these boards. Just looking for some advise or suggestions please. As much as I might disagree with what others chose to do for sport, I also know that there are many responsible, approachable people locally who do get involved. This crowd today of 5 or 6 said they are not in a club or organised (he actually said "nothing is organised these days" no doubt to avoid telling me if they were a club)

The most frustrating thing is they couldnt care less, it was literally like trying to debate with a child who just repeats the question back. If they had said they will try harder to control them, or release them further away from my house I could have lived with that. As I said though, they made it clear they couldnt care less and were more interested in trying to intimidate me away.

Would appreciate any thoughts

Thanks

Stick up a few signs saying around the place "Lands Poisoned" might deter them a bit,or "uncontrolled dogs will be shot on sight"

venger

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

See your problem is you can't have a civilized conversation with people that decide they can freely break the laws of civilized society.
Therefore you need to ask yourself - if I were an ignorant f@*k who thinks I can go where I want & snigger at anyone that says otherwise - what would it take to turn me off repeating the offense.
Rationale discussion is not in their vocabulary so your wasting your time!

Spot on, and that is what's so frustrating

venger

ace86 wrote: »

Is it hounds they have or is it springers and the likes? I know hounds are alot more harder to control when they are out and about but regardless there should be someone in place to watch them and make sure they are causing no disturbances to anyone or livestock.

Im not sure what breed they are but they are not springers, as we own one of them ourselves.

I think they are the sort that you often see on the TV when the blokes are on horseback, brown and white.

The other sickening thing is the state of some of the dogs, they mostly look emaciated, many limp along and they are all mangy looking suggesting they are not cared for very well at all.

The Aussie

venger wrote: »

The most frustrating thing is they couldnt care less, it was literally like trying to debate with a child who just repeats the question back.

I think we have meet the same people, they must drive all the way down to Cork:pac:, and by all means tell them in no uncertain terms that they are 100% in the wrong and,
* Depending on what side of the border you are on you could remind him of this old chestnut.

Defence in action for damages for shooting dog.
4.—In an action for damages for the shooting of a dog, it shall be a good defence if the defendant proves—

(a) that the dog was shot when worrying livestock on agricultural land,

(b) that the livestock were lawfully on the land,

(c) that the defendant was—

(i) the occupier of the land, a member of his family or a person employed by him, or

(ii) the owner of the livestock, a member of his family or a person employed by him, and

(d) that the defendant notified the shooting within forty-eight hours to a member of the Garda Síochána at the nearest Garda Síochána station.

There must be something in Pommy law that is similar, Chickens being Livestock and all.

*im not suggesting you or anyone do it, but its a gentle reminder that they and their dogs have zero rights once on your property and they can debate it after the fact in front of the Garda/Police all they want, it worked down here, they got away with it the first weekend but gee they copped it the next time, and i wonder why they dont even wave to me.

www.irishstatutebook.ie/1960/en/act/pub/0017/sec0004.html#zza17y1960s4

BryanL

venger wrote: »

We are just on the Northern side of the boarder and the police were not interested at all when we called them in the past.

I can't believe the police aren't concerned about dogs running through a garden.

Could you call the army?

Or maybe just get on with your life, let your kids do as they like and try to be a bit more tolerant of other people.

My family home is near a GAA pitch, we have balls and sliothars knocked into the garden continuously. We've never needed to call the police or video anyone. One kid left a gate open in a kennel and to the house,which caused my dog to be killed ion the road. These things happen within a community from time to time.

In the Irish countryside you will often be inconvenienced by horses and horse riders, cattle straying, various sports and maybe even the odd dog stepping on your grass.

garv123

BryanL wrote: »

I can't believe the police aren't concerned about dogs running through a garden.

Could you call the army?

Or maybe just get on with your life, let your kids do as they like and try to be a bit more tolerant of other people.

My family home is near a GAA pitch, we have balls and sliothars knocked into the garden continuously. We've never needed to call the police or video anyone. One kid left a gate open in a kennel and to the house,which caused my dog to be killed ion the road. These things happen within a community from time to time.

In the Irish countryside you will often be inconvenienced by horses and horse riders, cattle straying, various sports and maybe even the odd dog stepping on your grass.

What an absolute load of bollix of a comparison...

It wasn't me!

BryanL wrote: »

I can't believe the police aren't concerned about dogs running through a garden.

Could you call the army?

Or maybe just get on with your life, let your kids do as they like and try to be a bit more tolerant of other people.

My family home is near a GAA pitch, we have balls and sliothars knocked into the garden continuously. We've never needed to call the police or video anyone. One kid left a gate open in a kennel and to the house,which caused my dog to be killed ion the road. These things happen within a community from time to time.

In the Irish countryside you will often be inconvenienced by horses and horse riders, cattle straying, various sports and maybe even the odd dog stepping on your grass.

If you can't see the difference between "there's a dog in my garden" and "There are dogs in my garden which have killed pets/livestock and whose owners refuse to acknowledge that this is a problem" then you have a serious issue.

BryanL

Funnily enough the police obviously don't see a problem either?

But get yer guns and video surveillance out lads there's dogs in the garden.

juice1304

Would you be saying the same thing if one of their children was hurt and or bitten. I think that is what the op was on about. The children should be able to play in their own garden without the fear of being bitten by a dog because local idiots who think because they are from the area they and their dogs can do as they please.
Grow up.

garv123

Easy to spot the fella who hunts with hounds

They should have control of their dogs just like every other person who owns a dog should.

owelfisherman

garv123 wrote: »

Easy to spot the fella who hunts with hounds

They should have control of their dogs just like every other person who owns a dog should.

Ye this sounds like lads with hounds f*****g about.there loads round my area.destroy the place..drive cattle through fences.people with no manners at all.now theres no way im putting down lads with hounds its the lads i came across.im sure theres plenty who know there dogs by name and can control them
Atb

dicky82

BryanL wrote: »

Funnily enough the police obviously don't see a problem either?

But get yer guns and video surveillance out lads there's dogs in the garden.

Tom Was Almost There!!!!

brno

there's alot of merit in the "poison laid" signs.if these guys invade your land again you could make it clear that you are concerned for your childrens saftey and have been forced to lay poison as you can't have uncontrolled dogs in your garden.be reasonable but firm.if they respond aggressively ( and it sounds like they will) ACT like you dont give a f**k about how many of their dogs you kill, you've had enough!!! unfortunately ignorant people only respond to ignorance!!hopefully you won't actually have to lay the poison but if they persist you have little choice, you can't have your kids unsafe in their own garden!.
lastly, you don't seem to be a hunter yourself but please don't judge the rest of us by these guys.i've only recently gotten into hunting myself and the vast majority of the guys i've delt with in the sport are complete gents,they couldn't help you enough!!

TriggerPL

BryanL wrote: »

venger wrote: »

We are just on the Northern side of the boarder and the police were not interested at all when we called them in the past.

I can't believe the police aren't concerned about dogs running through a garden.

Could you call the army?

Or maybe just get on with your life, let your kids do as they like and try to be a bit more tolerant of other people.

My family home is near a GAA pitch, we have balls and sliothars knocked into the garden continuously. We've never needed to call the police or video anyone. One kid left a gate open in a kennel and to the house,which caused my dog to be killed ion the road. These things happen within a community from time to time.

In the Irish countryside you will often be inconvenienced by horses and horse riders, cattle straying, various sports and maybe even the odd dog stepping on your grass.

You will find that if my cattle or livestock went into you gardened and plough the place , and I turned to you and said joy of the Irish country side you would change ur tune .

Being honest I'd talk to them the first time and the next time is get all the neighbours together and boycott them I'm sure ur not the only one . People are getting sick if this hunts on there land breaking hedges and fences

brno

this attitude is frankly unbelievably, the dogs didn't "run through through his land" they killed his livestock,if dogs are in the mood for killing whatever they come accross then a small child would be in danger.also it's not a one off it's repeated

thelurcher

I have no clue who these guys are hunting in your area so I'm not going to try defend them but getting the farmer down the road to shoot the hounds is a no no.
Trespass alone also doesn't give you the right to shoot them. Also just because dogs killed your chickens in the past doesn't give you the right to shoot every dog that crosses your garden afterwards.

On the subject of control - didn't the Limerick Foxhounds have a case when Hugh Robards was hunting them on what constitutes effectual control? The courts found that the huntsman doesn't have to be field for field with the hounds to have them under control. Also it's not 'illegal' for them to cross lands in the pursuit of a fox or hare but the huntsman must remove them if someone objects?

I can't say I'm familiar with every hunt in the country but I don't know of any pack that hunts small children - just my opinion but I think that there'd be no sport in it - how fast can a 3 year old run?
The threat to the children is all in your heads - keep an eye out next summer for any open day at your local hunt kennels and visit - you'll see just what savage untamed beasts your dealing with.
Try and understand what fox hunting is about - the hounds are pursuing they're intended quarry - why would anyone keep a hound that riots constantly on other animals or people It doesn't make sense. Would you keep a setter or springer with similar faults???????

This cavalier attitude to shooting dogs needs a bit more thought as to the consequences - if someone ever happens to shoot one of my dogs they better have a damn good reason........

BryanL

What calibre are guys recommending for shooting dogs in a garden and what kind of a back stop?

EPointer=Birdss

thelurcher wrote: »

I have no clue who these guys are hunting in your area so I'm not going to try defend them but getting the farmer down the road to shoot the hounds is a no no.
Trespass alone also doesn't give you the right to shoot them. Also just because dogs killed your chickens in the past doesn't give you the right to shoot every dog that crosses your garden afterwards.

On the subject of control - didn't the Limerick Foxhounds have a case when Hugh Robards was hunting them on what constitutes effectual control? The courts found that the huntsman doesn't have to be field for field with the hounds to have them under control. Also it's not 'illegal' for them to cross lands in the pursuit of a fox or hare but the huntsman must remove them if someone objects?

I can't say I'm familiar with every hunt in the country but I don't know of any pack that hunts small children - just my opinion but I think that there'd be no sport in it - how fast can a 3 year old run?
The threat to the children is all in your heads - keep an eye out next summer for any open day at your local hunt kennels and visit - you'll see just what savage untamed beasts your dealing with.
Try and understand what fox hunting is about - the hounds are pursuing they're intended quarry - why would anyone keep a hound that riots constantly on other animals or people It doesn't make sense. Would you keep a setter or springer with similar faults???????

This cavalier attitude to shooting dogs needs a bit more thought as to the consequences - if someone ever happens to shoot one of my dogs they better have a damn good reason........

Second nonsense post in this thread! :rolleyes:
I've never seen hounds out after chickens before but by your logic it's only their designated quarry they are after so they must have gotten those roadrunner type chickens that can evade the pack!

As said a once off can happen. Dogs can get out of control with a nose full of scent. However to be ignorant, dismissive & a general w****r to someone who confronts you for repeat offences is plain retarded & you bring the consequences on yourself.

It's nothing got to do with being caviliar it's to do with having Kop on & not ruining your own sport as well as others as well as having some respect for those around you! Here In the adult world you must be responsible for your actions!

The dogs killed livestock therefore gloves are off. Just because it's chickens makes no less of a crime of it. They were obviously pets as well. What gives some c**t the right to allow his dog into a back yard to do it & not expect it to get shot! If the chickens were out in the fields then these things happen - they're not penned so run the risk of it but inside the boundaries of a private home give it a rest!!
Oh & last time I checked you have to have permission to walk, hunt, play or whatever else you wanna do on land that's not yours. No one or no ones dogs has a legal position to cross your lands without permission unless they hold the hunting rights in the property deeds. Even at that I'd have my doubts in this day & age!

BryanL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

After that the next time a dog entered my land & killed chickens etc it would be shot where it stood! Mods spare me any warnings but as far as I'm concerned it's legal to protect livestock. Reality is it could be kids playing out there the next day!

After that call the guards, get video evidence yada yada

"Think of the children" isn't that a line from the Simpsons?

So what calibre for shooting dogs in the garden? :eek:

Anyone consider maybe an electric fence around the garden, just turn it on when you have problems?

No, Shoot 'em up!

TriggerPL

BryanL wrote: »

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

After that the next time a dog entered my land & killed chickens etc it would be shot where it stood! Mods spare me any warnings but as far as I'm concerned it's legal to protect livestock. Reality is it could be kids playing out there the next day!

After that call the guards, get video evidence yada yada

"Think of the children" isn't that a line from the Simpsons?

So what calibre for shooting dogs in the garden? :eek:

Anyone consider maybe an electric fence around the garden, just turn it on when you have problems?

No, Shoot 'em up!

Something in the lines of a 223 mayb and as for back stop , the dog rib cage .

You have no right to enter a persons property with out permission to hunt that goes for dogs as well . So your talking right from you bum hole . And why should u go to expense of electric fence round you garden because some ejit can control there dogs .

A lad up our way was ordered to move his hounds kennels or the dogs would be disposed of by the courts for noise pollution.

So what makes ya think hounds on someone else property have any right .

Think u need to take your arms from around that tree your hugging and start to live in the real world , where you respect people's property

thelurcher

Sparks seems to be a good lad for digging up legislation etc. - any chance you'd be able to get the decision on that Robards case I mention with the Limerick Foxhounds?
I still have his book so will check it out again.

Lads it's like this - during the season I see the gun club lads shoot on land they shouldn't - I don't think they even realize they shouldn't be there - will I encourage the land owners to shoot their dogs because henny penny was killed by an errant lab ten years ago?

As I said already I won't defend the guys the OP is on about - but we've only heard one side of the story. Over the years I've been on both sides of this for one reason or another and both side always go away believing they were reasonable but the others 'intimidated' them.


One thing I will stress again - hounds are NO threat to children - seriously!
I've seen a lot of hunting as has BryanL no doubt - and in the normal course of a days hunting I've never seen a person hurt by a hound in any way. Hounds stuck in wire etc. - you need to be careful cutting them free but the same would go for a shih tzu.

TriggerPL

thelurcher wrote: »

Lads it's like this - during the season I see the gun club lads shoot on land they shouldn't - I don't think they even realize they shouldn't be there - will I encourage the land owners to shoot their dogs because henny penny was killed by an errant lab ten years ago?

That does not make it right or legal ! It's law that u must have you dog on lead at all time in a public place that goes for roads as well so for a start you breaking the law!

If I came round a bend in my car and into your hounds u would find out very quick who at fault , same applies if your hounds kill livestock or poultry on someone's property

meathstevie

For starters, whatever a disctrict court judge in Limerick says will have no relevance for the OP's problem. From what I can gather the OP lives somewhere near Rosslea or Wattlebridge or down that neck of the woods so it will be the magistrate in Enniskillen dealing with any issues potentially coming from it.

The legislation in Northern Ireland although maybe phrased slightly differently than in Ireland when it comes to out of control marauding dogs is very similar. The OP had livestock in his yard, it has been killed by out of control dogs and if that particular pack comes back to the OP's yard at a future time and the OP from assessing the pack behaviour and past experience believes that his animals are again in danger can take action to prevent more losses and that includes shooting the dog(s).

If you know the identity of the dog owners you could also make a statement to Police relating to an incident of criminal damage. Due to the dog owners being careless your livestock has been killed.

deerhunter1

garv123 wrote: »

What an absolute load of bollix of a comparison...

I agree absolute bollix of a comparision:eek:

deerhunter1

meathstevie wrote: »

For starters, whatever a disctrict court judge in Limerick says will have no relevance for the OP's problem. From what I can gather the OP lives somewhere near Rosslea or Wattlebridge or down that neck of the woods so it will be the magistrate in Enniskillen dealing with any issues potentially coming from it.

The legislation in Northern Ireland although maybe phrased slightly differently than in Ireland when it comes to out of control marauding dogs is very similar. The OP had livestock in his yard, it has been killed by out of control dogs and if that particular pack comes back to the OP's yard at a future time and the OP from assessing the pack behaviour and past experience believes that his animals are again in danger can take action to prevent more losses and that includes shooting the dog(s).

If you know the identity of the dog owners you could also make a statement to Police relating to an incident of criminal damage. Due to the dog owners being careless your livestock has been killed.

Plus if you know their identity send them a bill via your solicitor for loss/damage

thelurcher

With regard to trespass in Ireland -
At present, it is an offence to hunt any wild animal using a firearm, other weapon, trap, snare, net, birdlime, poison, stupefying bait or other devices or instruments, including decoys, lures, lamps and other dazzling devices on land without the permission of the owner.

Dogs are deliberately not on this list. The antis have for years tried to get dogs ferrets and hawks added to this but I don't think they have yet?

This is the next piece of legislation that people try to use in the OP's scenario -
Control of Dogs Act 1986, Section 9(1) that "a dog must be under the effectual control at all times".
This is where the Robards case comes in - with hounds the huntsman doesn't have to be in close proximity to the hounds to have them under effectual control.

Like it or not - it's not trespass for the hounds to be on your land. Before ye all get ye're knickers in a twist I'm not saying the foot or mounted followers can enter. The hunt staff can enter AFAIK but only to remove the hounds.
This is my understanding.

deerhunter1

thelurcher wrote: »

With regard to trespass in Ireland -
At present, it is an offence to hunt any wild animal using a firearm, other weapon, trap, snare, net, birdlime, poison, stupefying bait or other devices or instruments, including decoys, lures, lamps and other dazzling devices on land without the permission of the owner.

Dogs are deliberately not on this list. The antis have for years tried to get dogs ferrets and hawks added to this but I don't think they have yet?

This is the next piece of legislation that people try to use in the OP's scenario -
Control of Dogs Act 1986, Section 9(1) that "a dog must be under the effectual control at all times".
This is where the Robards case comes in - with hounds the huntsman doesn't have to be in close proximity to the hounds to have them under effectual control.

Like it or not - it's not trespass for the hounds to be on your land. Before ye all get ye're knickers in a twist I'm not saying the foot or mounted followers can enter. The hunt staff can enter AFAIK but only to remove the hounds.
This is my understanding.

I dont think you are understanding it right, though I cautiously agree with what
you say, if it was my property and livestock involved and had arrogant pricks allegedly doing what this thread was about I would shoot the ****ers and send the bill to the owners

garv123

You are completely missing the point.. This is someones garden for start.. not a field... And if the dogs enter the garden then they are not under control at all times..

salarluttra

i think you would find these lads are amateur huntsmen( they certainly act like it), there would be I'm sure a distinction in law between them and a professional huntsman
if dogs are loose on land and causing or about to cause damage/distress to livestock they can be shot legally .

meathstevie

thelurcher wrote: »

With regard to trespass in Ireland -
At present, it is an offence to hunt any wild animal using a firearm, other weapon, trap, snare, net, birdlime, poison, stupefying bait or other devices or instruments, including decoys, lures, lamps and other dazzling devices on land without the permission of the owner.

Dogs are deliberately not on this list. The antis have for years tried to get dogs ferrets and hawks added to this but I don't think they have yet?

This is the next piece of legislation that people try to use in the OP's scenario -
Control of Dogs Act 1986, Section 9(1) that "a dog must be under the effectual control at all times".
This is where the Robards case comes in - with hounds the huntsman doesn't have to be in close proximity to the hounds to have them under effectual control.

Like it or not - it's not trespass for the hounds to be on your land. Before ye all get ye're knickers in a twist I'm not saying the foot or mounted followers can enter. The hunt staff can enter AFAIK but only to remove the hounds.
This is my understanding.

Thelurcher, no disrespect but that bit of legislation has no releveance to the OP, he's not in the jurisdiction. Also, in Ireland I'm quite confident that it doesn't imply a "do whatever the hell you like licence" as some less sociable caracters who hunt with dogs appear to think it does.

I suggest you have a look at this http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/criminal_damage/#a02
and this
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/controlling-your-dog-in-public
and this
http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/forums/general-wildlife/64002-shooting-dogs.html, good bit of debate in this one.

Tommy87

salarluttra wrote: »

i think you would find these lads are amateur huntsmen( they certainly act like it), there would be I'm sure a distinction in law between them and a professional huntsman
if dogs are loose on land and causing or about to cause damage/distress to livestock they can be shot legally .

Amateur huntsmen but professional pr**ks!!

EPointer=Birdss

BryanL wrote: »

"Think of the children" isn't that a line from the Simpsons?

So what calibre for shooting dogs in the garden? :eek:

Anyone consider maybe an electric fence around the garden, just turn it on when you have problems?

No, Shoot 'em up!

Get your head out of your arse - you are being severely small minded. Maybe too much tv that you like to reference!
Kids in a garden & a pack of hounds chasing a pet. They are in the middle of it. So many potential outcomes that are not good. Besides the risk of bitten which may or may not happen - would you like your child to see it's pet killed in front of them? I regularly kill Chickens turkeys etc at home. Would I do so with a child around. No I would not. There is a level of conditioning needed before they are ready to see such things & the OP is not a hunter type so will not have exposed their kids to such things. Irregardless I would wish it on no adult let alone child to see a pet killed in front of them! It could do any length of damage that would last much longer than a bite!

The more you post the more damage you do yourself. Take some advise & brush aside your bravado & listen to the logic been expressed by the majority! If you can't then something tells me I'll be into a pointless discussion much like the OP & you'll be covering your license plate next! :rolleyes:

thelurcher

I have to admit I enjoy arguing points on here but ye can be very annoying sometimes
I started my last post by specifying the country of IRELAND as opposed to Northern Ireland.

I hate seeing these posts where fells get wound up and it turns into a case of shoot every dog that enters your land. There are very specific circumstances where you can do this but I'm trying to make people aware of the legalities - fellas are going to end up losing their firearms otherwise and maybe worse.

meathstevie - I've tried in my amateurish way to illustrate my understanding of possible hunt trespass with the relevant legislation and case law - even the antis would be in agreement with me on this - I cheated by copy and pasting from one of their sites
If you think what I say is incorrect please clarify with something other than just your personal interpretation. Not getting smart with you but I would like to know for definite myself.

thelurcher

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Get your head out of your arse - you are being severely small minded. Maybe too much tv that you like to reference!
Kids in a garden & a pack of hounds chasing a pet. They are in the middle of it. So many potential outcomes that are not good. Besides the risk of bitten which may or may not happen

He could have something there alright BryanL. Google images turned up some savagery by hounds -
What chance has this fella -


This is even worse - the huntsman is clearly encouraging them to attack the young'uns -

EPointer=Birdss

Hey OP is this the same attitude you came across when you confronted them?

garv123

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Hey OP is this the same attitude you came across when you confronted them?

Id thank that twice if I could

TriggerPL

garv123 wrote: »

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Hey OP is this the same attitude you came across when you confronted them?

Id thank that twice if I could

Right behind ya

homerhop

TriggerPL wrote: »

That does not make it right or legal ! It's law that u must have you dog on lead at all time in a public place that goes for roads as well so for a start you breaking the law!

The dog act doesn't state a dog has to be on a lead just under effective control.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0009.html#sec9

homerhop

This is what the control of dogs act states regarding the shooting of dogs. Lads be very careful before you pull that trigger, young chap in Carlow lost his license after shooting a dog that he said was worrying livestock.


23.—(1) It shall be a defence to any action for damages against a person for the shooting of a dog, or to any charge arising out of the shooting of a dog, if the defendant proves that—


(a) the dog was shot when it was worrying, or was about to worry, livestock and that there were no other reasonable means of ending or preventing the worrying; or


(b) (i) the dog was a stray dog which was in the vicinity of a place where livestock had been injured or killed, and


(ii) the defendant reasonably believed that the dog had been involved in the injury or killing, and


(iii) there were no practicable means of seizing the dog or ascertaining to whom it belonged; and


(c) he was the person in charge of the livestock; and


(d) he notified within forty-eight hours the member in charge at the nearest Garda Station to the place where the dog was shot of the incident.


(2) The provisions of subsection (1) (a) and subsection (1) (b) (i) and (iii) of this sec
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0023.html#sec23

garv123

homerhop wrote: »

(a) the dog was shot when it was worrying, or was about to worry, livestock and that there were no other reasonable means of ending or preventing the worrying; or

This is the bit people always seem to forget about when it comes to shooting dogs in a field with sheep..

TriggerPL

You right but do u think a guard or a judge will see it that way , and if you were walking you dog with out a lead and it got hit by a car is it there fault because you had it under control , think about it

BryanL

Just because you have guns doesn't mean you should use them to solve every dispute.

Advising people to shot dogs in their garden makes you all sound like very irresponsible gun owners. A dogs rib cage as a suitable back stop for a .223?
Some very angry men with guns on here.

Again a small electric fence would be very helpful for the OP. I have guns, I just don't threaten people with them.