where to find good IT people

crowej

Hi all,

I run an IT outsourcing firm and am trying to fill a junior helpdesk style role but the applicants so far have been terrible, I have been wondering where is the best place to advertise IT jobs ?

any advice would be appriciated

u140acro3xs7dm

Email the colleges, the likes off dit, blanchardstown and tallaght. They will then email past students. Also try the Work & jobs forum. Its over that way somewhere <

---

yoyo

Moved to Work & Jobs.

COYW

What do you mean by terrible?

RacoonQueen

COYW wrote: »

What do you mean by terrible?

Exact question I was going to ask. Different companies have different definitions of what is required of a level one/junior recruit - what are you looking for?

IMO for most junior helpdesk jobss there should be no problem training someone with a basic - decent knowledge of IT, networks and software in for that role and maybe specifying what sort of qualifications they should be expected to achieve.

The Browser

If you're in outsourcing, you possibly pay less than the rates which attract stand-out employees. However, I agree with the poster above: contact ITs and you'll probably get (good) graduates looking for their first gig.

donegal11

what qualifications would you need, comptia A+ Network+ ccna..etc or would a it/cs degree be required.

Hogan1

donegal11 wrote: »

what qualifications would you need, comptia A+ Network+ ccna..etc or would a it/cs degree be required.

I always find it funny when I see the long list of requirements companies put on their ads for junior helpdesk positions. The fact that its a 'junior' role means candidates probably dont have alot of experience.

tony81

Maybe you"re expecting an intermediate level employee while only being prepared to offer trainee/junior Wages? Or perhaps your job spec is so broad you're scaring off suitable employees and just getting the sort of person who applies for anything and everything

Axe Rake

crowej wrote: »

Hi all,

I run an IT outsourcing firm and am trying to fill a junior helpdesk style role but the applicants so far have been terrible, I have been wondering where is the best place to advertise IT jobs ?

any advice would be appriciated

Ah yeah, those garbage roles. There might be your problem.

horgan_p

Heres my 2 cents (I have taken on 3-5 junior IT support people over the last year)

1) if you advertise a junior role , you will get junior people.
2) dont expect the person to walk through the door knowing everything. one of the best people we have knew very little when they started.
3) if you pay peanuts you get monkeys (cliche but true) , don't expect a genius to work for 15k.
4) good and even great IT people are out there , they probably already have jobs though , so be prepared to offer training , mentoring , decent hours and holidays.
5) I know I kind of covered it already but dont advertise for someone with mcse/mcitp , ccna/ccne A+, N+, proficient java programmer with full degree who MUST ALSO BE A LINUX GOD. those people don't really exist. A lot of IT people choose a field and specialise in it.

As I said , just my 2 cents.

edit : Hang on a tic ,if you run an outsourcing company , why are you posting on an internet message board looking for tips on how to find / hire IT people ? aren't you kind of supposed to know how to do that already ?

Mr. Loverman

horgan_p wrote: »

1) if you advertise a junior role , you will get junior people.

I agree.

All too often I see job adverts with "junior" in the title but what they really mean is "we want a non-junior person who is willing to work for a junior wage".

areyawell

Basically anyone coming from an IT/computer science degree need to be trained into most roles regarding networking. These people are computer savvy and wont be long picking up all the skills needed to succeed by learning new skills such as daily backups, Windows server, networking, network security. You can't just expect a graduate to know all this as the only way they will learn it is through experience. I think that they really need to introduce more courses like CCNA and things through undergraduate degrees

COYW

tony81 wrote: »

Maybe you"re expecting an intermediate level employee while only being prepared to offer trainee/junior Wages?

Tends to be the case alright. Certain employers have strange ideas about the skills that a junior person should have. I have seen some down right ridiculous specs for junior roles. A good appetite for the area and a solid knowledge of the basic concepts, is all I would expect from a junior.

starlit

Emailing the colleges is one thing and advertising on the careers sections with the college but to be honest surely there are websites dedicated to IT where you can advertise IT jobs where they have that feature on the site like Silicon Republic.

I have noticed that trend too even for Junior Roles different for a more intermediate or senior role you'd expect a certain amount of skills listed in the job spec. Not every requirement is going to be met even for a Junior Role no matter what candidate they looking for. If they looking for someone more advanced they should state it rather than calling it a Junior Role!? Makes more sense rather than confuse and scare off potential candidates/graduates like.

The problem now is that some employers rather not have to train you up due to costs whereby they expect you to have done your IT degree/further study/have your certs before gaining any kind of IT experience whether or not you have some or no or a lot of IT work experience, not every IT grad is going to have all the skills sets for a helpdesk role or not all of them will have every programming language under their belt! They may not even have further study and professional IT certs done unless they have specified in an area of IT which is fairly broad when you narrow down the areas where you could specify.

The thing about programming and IT certs you just have to brush up on what you have learnt previously whether that be from college/work or self learning you just keep on keeping yourself up-skilled but is that even enough? Software applications/emerging technologies are constantly changing and evolving so its a matter of catching up with them too.

Why is that some roles have different labels for the same role is it not confusing for applicants when applying for roles if the specs are slightly different but the same role or same role, role spec but different title?

Those that have only a foot in the door/6 months or less/less than 12 months work experience have they any hope of breaking into IT? Is this a recession thing or skills/experience/certs/qualifications the done deal?

The only way grads get trained up whether in IT or what ever else if they do a grad programme/jobbridge or work abroad on a work programme or work abroad and emigrate. Would this not be considered a negative for the growth of the IT industry in Ireland if people are leaving or skimmed on training on placements?

Sometimes basic knowledge, core skills, basic programming isn't enough to land an entry IT job these days!?

Here's me thinking there are loads of jobs in IT but are they really only for more experienced people than grads?

areyawell

doovdela wrote: »

Emailing the colleges is one thing and advertising on the careers sections with the college but to be honest surely there are websites dedicated to IT where you can advertise IT jobs where they have that feature on the site like Silicon Republic.

I have noticed that trend too even for Junior Roles different for a more intermediate or senior role you'd expect a certain amount of skills listed in the job spec. Not every requirement is going to be met even for a Junior Role no matter what candidate they looking for. If they looking for someone more advanced they should state it rather than calling it a Junior Role!? Makes more sense rather than confuse and scare off potential candidates/graduates like.

The problem now is that some employers rather not have to train you up due to costs whereby they expect you to have done your IT degree/further study/have your certs before gaining any kind of IT experience whether or not you have some or no or a lot of IT work experience, not every IT grad is going to have all the skills sets for a helpdesk role or not all of them will have every programming language under their belt! They may not even have further study and professional IT certs done unless they have specified in an area of IT which is fairly broad when you narrow down the areas where you could specify.

The thing about programming and IT certs you just have to brush up on what you have learnt previously whether that be from college/work or self learning you just keep on keeping yourself up-skilled but is that even enough? Software applications/emerging technologies are constantly changing and evolving so its a matter of catching up with them too.

Why is that some roles have different labels for the same role is it not confusing for applicants when applying for roles if the specs are slightly different but the same role or same role, role spec but different title?

Those that have only a foot in the door/6 months or less/less than 12 months work experience have they any hope of breaking into IT? Is this a recession thing or skills/experience/certs/qualifications the done deal?

The only way grads get trained up whether in IT or what ever else if they do a grad programme/jobbridge or work abroad on a work programme or work abroad and emigrate. Would this not be considered a negative for the growth of the IT industry in Ireland if people are leaving or skimmed on training on placements?

Sometimes basic knowledge, core skills, basic programming isn't enough to land an entry IT job these days!?

Here's me thinking there are loads of jobs in IT but are they really only for more experienced people than grads?

I agree. IT/Computer science/software engineering courses need to overhauled big time in Ireland. Cut out the BS subjects which every degree has. Most of things on job specs are not been thought in college. People that have worked in the industry would be much better lecturing in IT than just people who have studied and got there PHD.

starlit

areyawell wrote: »

I agree. IT/Computer science/software engineering courses need to overhauled big time in Ireland. Cut out the BS subjects which every degree has. Most of things on job specs are not been thought in college. People that have worked in the industry would be much better lecturing in IT than just people who have studied and got there PHD.

I haven't done a general IT/computer science degree it be business and IT degree really in the area of business admin/BIS/multimedia/business.
Though saying that I have completed a hdip in computing and would have included the core subjects from an IT/computer science degree but often think it just a starting point into IT.

I agree with that get rid of pointless subjects and focus on what be expected in the future of an IT economy. Its like big hype in social media/digital marketing/cloud computing what are they really?

They were jobs that did not exist 10 years ago but all the rage now but will they be as popular in years to come compared to multimedia/gaming/medical technology/energy and environmental technology/programming (all types including OS, application, software, web, multimedia etc). Programming will always be around but of course will evolve similar to software. And now the hype of android/mobile programming?! Will that still be popular or more popular than ever before until something bigger and better comes along to replace it?

Regarding technical support it waning a bit is it not? Due to so many working in the area but only so many can work in it due to special skills requirements/experience and needing not only a programming language of some sort depending on the role but also a foreign language?

For example the Business Analyst/System Analyst/technology consultant/IT project manager/IT quality manager are they the same thing or different?
Can't get into without a certain level of skills/qualifications/experience like? A lot harder an area to get into compared to programming/tech support.

So what is the future for IT jobs and what are they likely to be? Who knows, IT is constantly changing!? Is it best to stay out of the rat race or stay in and hope for good job prospects in IT is it worth it? Or do you have to be a real nerd to be any bit successful in IT?; other than just having an interest and being good at it but having a knack and flare all the same!

For me even my career options is varied but not specific in one area of IT/business so most of the areas I have mentioned myself I could transition into most of them but finding it hard to get into any of them at the moment or not sure about pursuing some of them due not sure if the likes of social media/mobile programming/multimedia/web programming/digital marketing/cloud are stable areas to pursue?!

Unless you go into lecturing which I think might be something I end up in for job security reasons in the future! Never thought I might end up going down that road myself and thought a more general IT or business role be enough for me or is it? Sales/IT sales no luck, general office work no luck, any other areas i've tried pursuing no luck and now have be left to just paddle my own canoe by self learning and brushing up my programming and freelance stuff!?
So i'm going around in circles so any grad that might be considering a path in IT at the moment think twice!? Are the entry jobs at the moment throwing IT grads off from applying cause of the extreme job specs for junior roles? I guess think twice about going into IT in that case unless you set on a dream job in something IT!? Pursue else where.

There is a lot to be said about being passionate about IT!

Axe Rake

doovdela wrote: »

Emailing the colleges is one thing and advertising on the careers sections with the college but to be honest surely there are websites dedicated to IT where you can advertise IT jobs where they have that feature on the site like Silicon Republic.

I have noticed that trend too even for Junior Roles different for a more intermediate or senior role you'd expect a certain amount of skills listed in the job spec. Not every requirement is going to be met even for a Junior Role no matter what candidate they looking for. If they looking for someone more advanced they should state it rather than calling it a Junior Role!? Makes more sense rather than confuse and scare off potential candidates/graduates like.

The problem now is that some employers rather not have to train you up due to costs whereby they expect you to have done your IT degree/further study/have your certs before gaining any kind of IT experience whether or not you have some or no or a lot of IT work experience, not every IT grad is going to have all the skills sets for a helpdesk role or not all of them will have every programming language under their belt! They may not even have further study and professional IT certs done unless they have specified in an area of IT which is fairly broad when you narrow down the areas where you could specify.

The thing about programming and IT certs you just have to brush up on what you have learnt previously whether that be from college/work or self learning you just keep on keeping yourself up-skilled but is that even enough? Software applications/emerging technologies are constantly changing and evolving so its a matter of catching up with them too.

Why is that some roles have different labels for the same role is it not confusing for applicants when applying for roles if the specs are slightly different but the same role or same role, role spec but different title?

Those that have only a foot in the door/6 months or less/less than 12 months work experience have they any hope of breaking into IT? Is this a recession thing or skills/experience/certs/qualifications the done deal?

The only way grads get trained up whether in IT or what ever else if they do a grad programme/jobbridge or work abroad on a work programme or work abroad and emigrate. Would this not be considered a negative for the growth of the IT industry in Ireland if people are leaving or skimmed on training on placements?

Sometimes basic knowledge, core skills, basic programming isn't enough to land an entry IT job these days!?

Here's me thinking there are loads of jobs in IT but are they really only for more experienced people than grads?

As a recent IT graduate, I agree with everything you have written. Great summary.

starlit

What is bugging me is that they supposedly crying out for IT people and IT skill shortages that they need to fill IT jobs! What's happening is that they are employing people from outside Ireland and is it any wonder that us Irish IT grads are left out in the cold to look else where!? Is the skills we have is outdated or not sufficient or the quality of our qualifications aren't up to scratch or not getting what we should out of our IT courses? Its like a lotto really and all luck if you get a starting job in IT!

So as I say the IT grads are finding it harder to gain employment compared to those who are already experienced whether Irish or from outside of Ireland seem to be the only ones filling in the IT jobs gaps at the moment and that's a sad state of the IT industry when IT grads are in competition to land a role in an entry IT role and often or not may not get in because they don't have this that and the other or not enough experience. Hard to win!?

Is it as simple as do a grad programme/jobbridge/further study/certs/work abroad scheme/placement/emigrate? And come back in the hope of landing a secure IT role in Ireland is that what it comes to? Its not fair really if we have to do that when we could do it in Ireland but due to lack of resources and not enough money to train us up after graduation and the free labour to train its not as effective to keep us here.

So what are we to do like? Set up our own companies, self learn/further study get involved in all things IT in the hope of a dream job on the horizon? We should just be able to learn the ropes as we go but we don't have that option any more to go straight into a job after graduation not everyone has that opportunity! Which is a terrible pity!

Something has to be done in order to sustain the IT Industry to attract IT grads whether Irish or not. For that we need money and job creation to suit and be filled by all IT grads not just experienced IT professionals!

msg11

One of the reasons I have pulled out of the IT industry is because of the ridiculous skill set required to get a start. I'm certified to CCNA level and IT has become more of hobbie to me, wouldn't see it as a stable job, instead I would do the odd nickser for a friend with computer speed issues or BB problems/installations.

Even in my current job, Tesco I wouldn't touch a problem they have with a stick even if I could fix it, they have a help desk they can fix it.

IT in Ireland is a joke to be honest.

areyawell

doovdela wrote: »

What is bugging me is that they supposedly crying out for IT people and IT skill shortages that they need to fill IT jobs! What's happening is that they are employing people from outside Ireland and is it any wonder that us Irish IT grads are left out in the cold to look else where!? Is the skills we have is outdated or not sufficient or the quality of our qualifications aren't up to scratch or not getting what we should out of our IT courses? Its like a lotto really and all luck if you get a starting job in IT!

So as I say the IT grads are finding it harder to gain employment compared to those who are already experienced whether Irish or from outside of Ireland seem to be the only ones filling in the IT jobs gaps at the moment and that's a sad state of the IT industry when IT grads are in competition to land a role in an entry IT role and often or not may not get in because they don't have this that and the other or not enough experience. Hard to win!?

Is it as simple as do a grad programme/jobbridge/further study/certs/work abroad scheme/placement/emigrate? And come back in the hope of landing a secure IT role in Ireland is that what it comes to? Its not fair really if we have to do that when we could do it in Ireland but due to lack of resources and not enough money to train us up after graduation and the free labour to train its not as effective to keep us here.

So what are we to do like? Set up our own companies, self learn/further study get involved in all things IT in the hope of a dream job on the horizon? We should just be able to learn the ropes as we go but we don't have that option any more to go straight into a job after graduation not everyone has that opportunity! Which is a terrible pity!

Something has to be done in order to sustain the IT Industry to attract IT grads whether Irish or not. For that we need money and job creation to suit and be filled by all IT grads not just experienced IT professionals!

Yea something needs to done. They have all these jobs up with skills where grads in most IT courses have never done before. I've giving up with recruitment companies as well. There a shower of *****. If you have no experience in the skills in the job they immediately bin your C.V or back to the very back of the pile.
I know plenty of graduates who would be happy to work 15k for the year to up there skill set. The job bridge thing of an extra 50 euro is absolute joke, should at least be an 120 euros on the top of dole to be able to relocate to do the job bridge program.

areyawell

msg11 wrote: »

One of the reasons I have pulled out of the IT industry is because of the ridiculous skill set required to get a start. I'm certified to CCNA level and IT has become more of hobbie to me, wouldn't see it as a stable job, instead I would do the odd nickser for a friend with computer speed issues or BB problems/installations.

Even in my current job, Tesco I wouldn't touch a problem they have with a stick even if I could fix it, they have a help desk they can fix it.

IT in Ireland is a joke to be honest.

Yea an absoulte joke. Im sure any IT graduate has expierence in all of this.

http://irishjobs.ie/Jobs/IT-Graduate-6903329.aspx:rolleyes:

People in government and colleges are clueless to what is really needed in the IT industry

Question 2:
Do you have a valid work permit
lol

I think that companies realise that IT degrees in Ireland are an absolute joke

msg11

areyawell wrote: »

Yea an absoulte joke. Im sure any IT graduate has expierence in all of this.

http://irishjobs.ie/Jobs/IT-Graduate-6903329.aspx:rolleyes:

People in government and colleges are clueless to what is really needed in the IT industry

It's a joke alright, like I am fairly good with cars too. So was going to mix the too up and hopefully become something to do with car electronics and networking.

But been honest, Tesco is decent. Not exactly where I expected to end up and I am tired of people telling me I am wasted in Tesco but been honest, at leased they want me around and there's good progression in there.

The CCNA is the most useless cert in my life right after the leaving cert.

BostonB

Its partially the result of using agencies, and outsourcing, fewer and fewer get trained, resulting in a smaller and smaller pool of skilled people. Technology is always changing. Many companies don't facilitate staff training, or train people up.

Its over harvesting the skill pool without re-populating it.

reeb

Its always been difficult to enter a professional industry with no experience. I took a non technical customer service role within an IT firm on graduation and used basic networking (not the TCP/IP kind) to get into a technical role. This is how business works.

For those grads griping about not being able to get into the industry, bear in mind you have a good qualification in one of the best performing industries in the country. Imagine you had studied architecture or quantity surveying. Get the head down, get into the service desk at paypal or customer service at Symantec or EA or MS or HP or Vodafone or any one of the dozens of other firms looking for grads to answer the phone, get some industry experience and some contacts and take it from there. The world does not owe you a living. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

BostonB

Great but the OP can't find people for a junior role. Which I would assume means people lacking in experience.

reeb

OP doesnt mention anything about experience. I would read it as the quality of applications being poor. I saw the same thing last time I was involved in recruitment in Ireland. IT BSc. qualified people with spelling mistakes in their poorly formatted CVs.

BostonB

That why I said assume.

tk123

BostonB wrote: »

Great but the OP can't find people for a junior role. Which I would assume means people lacking in experience.

I'd love to see the job spec and what its expecting applicants to have considering I'm sitting on a helpdesk atm (having been placed by an outsource/managed service agency) with a degree, mcse, mcitp and 10 years experience - 5 desktop and 5 of Sys/enterprise admin. I'm logging tickets all day an climbing up the walls because I'm not using the skills I've built up and have an interest in. Why in the name of god did they make me do 2 tech tests for this?!

Deliverance XXV

I'm finding it hard to break through myself. I just finished my degree in the summer after three years part-time studying in Waterford, while living in Carlow (for the last year) and working full-time in Kilkenny. As the course was part-time and I was already working (in a non-IT environment) it would've been impossible to get work experience.

I have a nice little design and development portfolio set up but I find it hard to get past recruitment companies for an interview who are looking for graduates with experience.

Catch 22!

starlit

reeb wrote: »

Its always been difficult to enter a professional industry with no experience. I took a non technical customer service role within an IT firm on graduation and used basic networking (not the TCP/IP kind) to get into a technical role. This is how business works.

For those grads griping about not being able to get into the industry, bear in mind you have a good qualification in one of the best performing industries in the country. Imagine you had studied architecture or quantity surveying. Get the head down, get into the service desk at paypal or customer service at Symantec or EA or MS or HP or Vodafone or any one of the dozens of other firms looking for grads to answer the phone, get some industry experience and some contacts and take it from there. The world does not owe you a living. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Ya but not every IT grad has a foreign language making it harder and harder to get into technical support role!? Meaning they outsource their staff that do!

ethernet

As a recent graduate (B.Sc. and M.Sc. in comp sci), I'm also finding it rather difficult to get onto the ladder.

What *really* grates me are the job listings sent to the university for so-called graduate roles but, in the requirements, demand 1-2 years of experience. What planet are these people on? All too tempting to name and shame the tools.

starlit

ethernet wrote: »

As a recent graduate (B.Sc. and M.Sc. in comp sci), I'm also finding it rather difficult to get onto the ladder.

What *really* grates me are the job listings sent to the university for so-called graduate roles but, in the requirements, demand 1-2 years of experience. What planet are these people on? All too tempting to name and shame the tools.

I find that annoying too when I see that.

markpb

ethernet wrote: »

What *really* grates me are the job listings sent to the university for so-called graduate roles but, in the requirements, demand 1-2 years of experience. What planet are these people on? All too tempting to name and shame the tools.

Not all graduates will have no experience leaving university. In my case, I had 6 months (a mixture of full and part time) doing tech support and 6 months (full time, as part of my degree) doing development work.

Alternatively, if a job spec says 1-2 years, apply anyway and see what happens. Some recruiters may bin your CV if they spot that you don't have 2 years relevant experience but not all will.

ethernet

markpb wrote: »

Not all graduates will have no experience leaving university. In my case, I had 6 months (a mixture of full and part time) doing tech support and 6 months (full time, as part of my degree) doing development work.

Alternatively, if a job spec says 1-2 years, apply anyway and see what happens. Some recruiters may bin your CV if they spot that you don't have 2 years relevant experience but not all will.

That's true. I also had a full-time 5-month work placement. But it should be a 'nice to have' more than a prerequisite - or just leave it out altogether!

starlit

I've 6 months IT work-placement but no other IT experience, have a variety of work experience outside of IT but not enough to get into IT or any other area I am interested in.

reeb

ethernet wrote: »

As a recent graduate (B.Sc. and M.Sc. in comp sci), I'm also finding it rather difficult to get onto the ladder.

What *really* grates me are the job listings sent to the university for so-called graduate roles but, in the requirements, demand 1-2 years of experience. What planet are these people on? All too tempting to name and shame the tools.

People work part-time during college. Many return to college as mature students when they feel their careers are inhibited by the lack of a degree. These people have experience at graduation.

Deliverance XXV

reeb wrote: »

People work part-time during college. Many return to college as mature students when they feel their careers are inhibited by the lack of a degree. These people have experience at graduation.

Not necessarily experience in their studied fields though. I have 10 years experience (In retail management positions - not very relevant to companies requiring commercial development experience!)

T-K-O

As someone who studied computer science(degree level) but only started working in that sector recently I agree the job specs are ridiculous for graduates.

Companies want graduates with

Degree
CCNA
Microsoft certs
VMWARE

It's just not realistic for graduates. I also agree that the degree courses are not geared toward employee. I gradated in 06, the course felt like a jack of all trades master of none.

starlit

T-K-O wrote: »

As someone who studied computer science(degree level) but only started working in that sector recently I agree the job specs are ridiculous for graduates.

Companies want graduates with

Degree
CCNA
Microsoft certs
VMWARE

It's just not realistic for graduates. I also agree that the degree courses are not geared toward employee. I gradated in 06, the course felt like a jack of all trades master of none.

Explains why some IT degree grads go onto do a Masters in IT and might specialise in a specific area than just CompSci!

T-K-O

doovdela wrote: »

Explains why some IT degree grads go onto do a Masters in IT and might specialise in a specific area than just CompSci!

Not really, I looked into a masters at the time but and couldnt find anything specific, could be different now.

Even so someone with a masters will not be certified or have real world experience.

Most companies want experienced guys for entry level salaries- they should just say that.

the_syco

crowej wrote: »

a junior helpdesk style role but the applicants so far have been terrible

I smell bullsh|t recruitment speak. I'm guessing the company wants someone that would have the expertise of a 2nd level agent, who may be "junior" in their organisation (maybe business supporting other business?), but not what passes for a 1st level agent.

starlit

T-K-O wrote: »

Not really, I looked into a masters at the time but and couldnt find anything specific, could be different now.

Even so someone with a masters will not be certified or have real world experience.

Most companies want experienced guys for entry level salaries- they should just say that.

Might make a difference in applications at least if they state that though sometimes get the impression for some jobs that you need a Masters now a days. Not everyone in IT have experience starting off in entry level jobs but I guess they should state so to have experience rather than confuse applicants.
So guess a cert is better than a Masters then?

I've looked into a Masters in IT too but think the computer science route be a bit broad to be honest. The most specific ones be BIS, Multimedia, Games, Cloud, Networking/Forensic Computing, Software Development, Mobile Computing/Networking. I've looked into other areas outside to IT like business/strategy/social media/project management/digital marketing/quality management and other potential areas to pursue in greater detail as my degree be similar to business and IT while my hdip is in computing.

Hogan1

T-K-O wrote: »

As someone who studied computer science(degree level) but only started working in that sector recently I agree the job specs are ridiculous for graduates.

Companies want graduates with

Degree
CCNA
Microsoft certs
VMWARE

It's just not realistic for graduates. I also agree that the degree courses are not geared toward employee. I gradated in 06, the course felt like a jack of all trades master of none.

Exactly. I have 2 years experience and am in my 4th year part time and I dont have the ccna or any microsoft certs. The job descriptions are ridiculous.

imitation

You really shouldn't be put off by high standards for job positions, I think its a standard enough poker face thing done by HR people to try and filter down on applications. Apply anyway, odds are that you will have then passed the first test. Honestly I know when I was a graduate and looking at applications I thought I didn't have a shot, from the inside looking out, I can definitely see I wasn't the only one. I've actually heard of an entire class of graduates running in terror from the offer of interviews for one company.

T-K-O

doovdela wrote: »

Might make a difference in applications at least if they state that though sometimes get the impression for some jobs that you need a Masters now a days. Not everyone in IT have experience starting off in entry level jobs but I guess they should state so to have experience rather than confuse applicants.
So guess a cert is better than a Masters then?

I've looked into a Masters in IT too but think the computer science route be a bit broad to be honest. The most specific ones be BIS, Multimedia, Games, Cloud, Networking/Forensic Computing, Software Development, Mobile Computing/Networking.

Cert better that a masters, IMO absolutely not. But someone who has a degree and a cert will get the job before someone with a masters. On the other side of the coin the masters could enable a more successful career whilst picking up certs on the job.

What I mean is that employers cant expected graduates to have the college education and the professional certs. It's just not realistic.

My position list a degree and ccna as a job requirement. I had the degree and got the job but obviously a lot of people are struggling to find work. The recruitment agencies / job requirements must be very disheartening.

reeb

Just go and get the CCNA in that case, whats the problem?

T-K-O

Hogan1 wrote: »

Exactly. I have 2 years experience and am in my 4th year part time and I dont have the ccna or any microsoft certs. The job descriptions are ridiculous.

Keep at it mate.

I found the job I wanted and it was 5/6 years after graduation and with no experience or certs.


Note: I was working for those 6 years just not in I.T

T-K-O

reeb wrote: »

Just go and get the CCNA in that case, whats the problem?

Yeah and VMware and MCITP and CISSP :rolleyes:

Cuddlesworth

Ahh this old argument about IT certs.

IT certs are a amazing concept that isn't really in force in other industry's. They are specifically aimed at job roles, carry a wealth of information and actually teach people something useful. Unfortunately this is mis-taken as a guaranteed job and they are two a penny with the unemployed graduates of the last few years.

The CCNA is a great example. Its a moderately difficult course which teaches the basics of a lan networking setup. What it does not tell you is how to do practically most of a network admin job, because the networking taught is a small part of the day to day work required.

In the same way the A+ and N+ are great courses but useless in a helpdesk role. Your job will work out as logging calls, resetting passwords and answering stupid questions.

So what most IT support hopefuls are missing are the starting blocks. Getting fully certified in Microsoft office is better than a CCNA which will never get used. Getting certified as a MCSE and CCNA when in that job, is great for both the CV and your personal development. It gives you opportunity within the company and sets you apart from the day to day workers. Good habit to build for the rest of your life as well.

Raekwon

I agree that Irish employers are taking the piss when it comes to IT related roles.

I have 8 years experience working in Desktop Support/Systems Admin roles coupled with a degree, MCSA/MCITP, CCNA, VCP, ITIL v3, A+, Network+ and I'm finding it difficult finding a better job with a better salary.

Most employers that I've come across seem to want candidates to have the total package yet don't seem to want to pay anything more then the average industrial wage or less in some cases. It's an absolute joke. Plus I cringe everytime that I hear that we have a huge shortage of highly skilled IT workers in Ireland as it's simply not the case.

I actually used to update my certs regularly but I've slacked off recently and let my CCNA expire and I can't find the motivation to take the new Microsoft certs as I'm constantly finding that my efforts (and personal expense!) are not being rewarded.