An idea for motor tax

msg11

Would you think this might bring up some more cash tax wise.

Firstly keep the old way, but add in this second bit.

Like insurance you get a disc for year but you can pay in monthly installments. Can we not do this for motor tax? Maybe not give the disc for the year but for 6 months. The person then pays Direct Debits to the Tax office and pays off the disc.

Two problems I can think of.

1. People getting the disc then keeping it and not paying
2. Selling and buying new cars

But both these problems are faced by insurance companies too. ANPR can quickly tell if a car is taxed at a Garda check point and if someone buys or sells a car then they keep there disc and inform the tax office of there new car and they update the payments etc, like the insurance companies do. Change the law too make the penalty's for messing around with tax/tax discs the same as insurance.

I would rather pay like this than forking out 250 every 3 months and the pissing around in the tax office.

Just an idea, if it was just DB from peoples accounts it would be made a lot easier to pay it and the cheaper rates P/M could encourage people to pay.

Anan1

Isn't this what banks are for?

awec

This post has been deleted.

Chris_Heilong

We have enough things going trough direct debit and I don't think adding motor TAX to that list is any kind of solution, motor tax payed at the Pump is the only evolution to the system I can see for the future.

billbond4

yeah exactly, motor tax with its current two tier system is fundamentally flawed.
I dont see any reason why it cant be taxed at the pumps?
It would make more money for the government as everyone will have to pay it.

Can the government get off their arse and do something right for a change, besides sitting around and doing feckall.

awec

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

The main flaw of motor tax system, is that shouldn't be there in the first place.
We should abandon it. There's plenty of countries where there isn't such thing as motortax.

awec

This post has been deleted.

billbond4

If i have a december 2007 registered Ford Focus diesel besides a January 2008 registered Ford Focus, which one generates more CO2?
Its better to keeps well maintained cars on the road(checked by NCT) than to have new cars on the road which take a krud load of CO2 to make in the first place.

--> It was just a way that SIMI paid a few brown envelops to the government so that they could sell more cars, like the 131 132 regs on the way.
Still corruption in the upper levels of government

billbond4

awec wrote: »

And where would you suggest the government make up the shortfall that would be left without motortax?

Property/Local Government Tax

Momento Mori

Ban it altogether? Yeah I like the sound of that...

Either way, I think it should be the same set charge for everyone. Regardless of a car's emissions etc.

seanmacc

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

We have enough things going trough direct debit and I don't think adding motor TAX to that list is any kind of solution, motor tax payed at the Pump is the only evolution to the system I can see for the future.

Get the British establishment out of Ireland and we can do away with the land border and then charge extra at the pump and incorporate 3rd party insurance as well.
Whilst the boarder is there we can only do what the Brits do when it comes to that sort of taxation

CiniO

awec wrote: »

And where would you suggest the government make up the shortfall that would be left without motortax?

Fisrt of all what's the idea of motortax.
Because as far as I know, it's purpose was to bould and maintain road, but at the moment it's not really used for this purpose. That's the first reason, that motorists shouldn't pay it at all.

Secondly, even if it was used for building and maintaining roads, there's not a single reasons why motortists should pay it.

Roads are being used by everyone.
Everyone driving to work is using road. Everyone walking or cycling in most cases is using roads. People who go shopping are buying procucts which were brought to the shop by trucks using roads. Your letters in your mailbox arrive by post vans driving on the roads.
Generally modern society is 100% dependent on transport throght the roads, and therefore it should be our resposibility as society to maintain roads, as we all use them (directly or indirectly). Roads should be maintained from our taxes then.

awec

This post has been deleted.

billbond4

Motortax goes to fund local services/councils (sound familar) ??
The property tax is allegedly is for local services/councils also, hmmm so why are people who pay motor tax paying a property tax when they already have already paid their local services levy for want of a better word??

billbond4

awec wrote: »

Motortax is a general taxation. It goes into one big pot, along with other taxes. From that pot, eventually money ends up being spent on roads. It's not a tax for using the roads, it's a tax for owning a motor vehicle.

If you take away motortax, the shortfall has to be made up somewhere else. Where do you suggest the government get the money from?

Should the government take away your (for example) 500 euro a year motortax, and then put your PAYE tax up by 500 euro a year to make up the difference?

The big pot that motortax goes into is for local governments to use

CiniO

awec wrote: »

Motortax is a general taxation. It goes into one big pot, along with other taxes. From that pot, eventually money ends up being spent on roads and other local infrastructure. It gets split out into local councils etc at various rates. It's not a tax for using the roads, it's a tax for owning a motor vehicle.

If you take away motortax, the shortfall has to be made up somewhere else. Where do you suggest the government get the money from?

Should the government take away your (for example) 500 euro a year motortax, and then put your PAYE tax up by 500 euro a year to make up the difference?

Yes.
But I understand that income tax increase, wouldn't be as big, as motortax we pay. Just because income tax is paid by most people, but motortax only by vehicle owners.

PS - also you are saying that motor tax goes to local councils.
Tell me why should I support local council by 660 a year, while my neighbour who doesn't own the car, doesn't spend a cent on it.

awec

This post has been deleted.

dar83

The thoughts of motor tax direct debits sends a shiver down my spine. Do you know how many of those DD's would be bounced each and every month? It would be an absolute nightmare to try and implement and make in any way successful.

awec

This post has been deleted.

billbond4

Motor tax is a necessity, but the problem is as the government decided to go down the line of CO2 taxation it really should be the polluter pays and that should be taxed directly at the pumps, but i fear the bean counters have done their sums and figured out that the government would loose money if this happened so they will keep things the way they are.
this is what happened when pre-08 imported cars were supposed to get the CO2 based motortax.

awec

This post has been deleted.

msg11

dar83 wrote: »

The thoughts of motor tax direct debits sends a shiver down my spine. Do you know how many of those DD's would be bounced each and every month? It would be an absolute nightmare to try and implement and make in any way successful.

Well I rather pay by month that fork out a huge amount every 3 months.

PaulKK

msg11 wrote: »

Well I rather pay by month that fork out a huge amount every 3 months.

Its not costing you any more, so in effect its the same.


I lob a set sum into a deposit account each month to run the car, and then when tax or insurance is due or I need tyres I have it there ready to pay.

I pay both fully for a year, one transaction a year, cheaper for tax, and less complicated. My thinking is you have to pay it anyway so just get on with it.

Just add up your insurance, tax, tyres and average service cost for the year and divide by 12. Might be painful for some though!

CiniO

awec wrote: »

And how do you calculate the rate that someone pays?

Does everyone pay the same?

Simple.
They know who much they make on motortax.
They know who much they make on income tax.
It's really simple calculation now, to know how much % to increase income tax, to get rid of motortax and remain their taxation income at the same level.

You should support your council by 660 cause you own a car. If you don't want to pay that, don't own the car. Your neighbour will of course pay other taxes, I find it hard to believe that he pays none whatsoever.

Of course she pays other taxes. I pay them as well.
Still idea of paying a tax for a privilage of having a car is nonsense.
Car is not luxury good anymore. In todays rural Ireland it's pretty much necessity.

Mar4ix

CiniO wrote: »

Simple.
They know who much they make on motortax.
They know who much they make on income tax.
It's really simple calculation now, to know how much % to increase income tax, to get rid of motortax and remain their taxation income at the same level.

if i have no car, why i have to pay for somebody drive a car ?

bazz26

CiniO wrote: »

PS - also you are saying that motor tax goes to local councils.
Tell me why should I support local council by 660 a year, while my neighbour who doesn't own the car, doesn't spend a cent on it.

Motor tax is an ownership tax. It is everyone's choice to own a vehicle or not but you are liable for the associated ownership tax on it if you chose to, your neighbour has chosen not to own a car so isn't required to pay motor tax. This doesn't have any direct association with how revenue generated from that tax is distributed or spent.

msg11

PaulKK wrote: »

Its not costing you any more, so in effect its the same.


I lob a set sum into a deposit account each month to run the car, and then when tax or insurance is due or I need tyres I have it there ready to pay.

I pay both fully for a year, one transaction a year, cheaper for tax, and less complicated. My thinking is you have to pay it anyway so just get on with it.

Just add up your insurance, tax, tyres and average service cost for the year and divide by 12. Might be painful for some though!

I do actully have a seperate account for stuff like tax and that put 100 away each week for stuff.

But the idea is too generate more money for the goverment so they won't hike motor tax up anymore.

We all agree the system we have now is a joke, it needs to be changed what I suggested is an improvement on helping people that say they can't pay too expensive etc..

ShadowHearth

CiniO

Mar4ix wrote: »

if i have no car, why i have to pay for somebody drive a car ?

You missed my point.
No one should be paying for privelage of having a car.
And roads should be build and maintained by everyone (both car owners and those who don't own the car) as they are needed by everyone.

CiniO

bazz26 wrote: »

Motor tax is an ownership tax. It is everyone's choice to own a vehicle or not but you are liable for the associated ownership tax on it if you chose to, your neighbour has chosen not to own a car so isn't required to pay motor tax. This doesn't have any direct association with how revenue generated from that tax is distributed or spent.

It is indeed.
We already pay tax on properties, on cars, on tv-set, on dogs...
Soon we'll all be paying taxes for privelege of owning a washing mashine, cooker, kattle, or hairdryer.
What comes next?

Supergurrier

There is no way to revise the current system as we pay motor tax twice, on fuel and in a lump sum every 3/6/12 months.

Put €83.50 in the car today how much of that is tax ?

Nothing will change, it's too much of a cash cow atm

CiniO

Supergurrier wrote: »

There is no way to revise the current system as we pay motor tax twice, on fuel and in a lump sum every 3/6/12 months.

You forgot about levy on your insurance, and about VAT on your NCT price.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Supergurrier

So how many loose chippings will my tax buy out of interest ?

CiniO

awec wrote: »

They are.

So why does everyone here say, that we need a motortax?
What's the purpose of it?
To discourage people from using their cars?

goz83

Tax at the pump would suck for those on classic tax rates.

CiniO

goz83 wrote: »

Tax at the pump would suck for those on classic tax rates.

I don't think so.
AFAIR classic tax is about 50 euro.
Average tax for normal car is probably about 500 euro, which is 10 times more.

But classic car, probably on average drive 10 times less then normal, so they would end up paying the same.

Supergurrier

goz83 wrote: »

Tax at the pump would suck for those on classic tax rates.

Classic cars are rarely daily drivers and would represent a very very small part of irish motorists, whats's needed is a balanced system that is fair to everyone w/o being extreme in either way

awec

This post has been deleted.

Supergurrier

Ok 20c every time i wipe my arse and we call it quits

Chris_Heilong

awec wrote: »

And how do you calculate the rate that someone pays?

Does everyone pay the same?


You should support your council by 660 cause you own a car. If you don't want to pay that, don't own the car. Your neighbour will of course pay other taxes, I find it hard to believe that he pays none whatsoever.

This makes no sense what so ever, the council has nothing to do with owning a car, also you dont have to pay tax for owning a car, you pay it for using it on Public roads, so if I just raced my car and got it towed to and from the race track I would legally not have to pay any tax.

Like I said before, the only fair way to tax cars is at the pumps because everyone that drives must fill up their cars and so cant avoid paying as many in Ireland do at present, also it would mean you are paying by how much you use your car and not by what year it was manufactured. The reason I dont see the Government jumping at this option is the advent of Electric cars, the Government lacks foresight and are scared to introduce any new systems now as they are playing a wait and see game as usual.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Chris_Heilong

Actually looks like you didnt read what you posted:P

awec wrote: »

Yep, and it's used on a variety of things, including roads. Motor tax isn't a direct tax for road usage and upkeep, it's a tax for owning a motor vehicle, some of which is coincidentally used for road upkeep.

If motortax is done away with (and one has to assume motor tax is a serious source of government income given the amount of people who pay it and the rates that people pay) the shortfall left will have to be made up by some other form of tax.

You will still be paying out either way.

awec

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

Guys I still can't understand one thing.

We all agreed motor tax is not for upkeeping the roads - stupid IMHO but let it be.
We all agreed that motor tax is taxation on privalege of being able to use car on public roads.

Thing which I can't understand is - why?
Why should we pay a tax for this privalege?

goz83

Supergurrier wrote: »

Ok 20c every time i wipe my arse and we call it quits

I have a bidet, sothey can tax jax roll all they like

Oh crap....they gonna tax water aint they?

awec

This post has been deleted.

goz83

awec wrote: »

Governments spend money. That money doesn't grow on trees.

Where do they get the paper from?

argosy2006

Taxed per miles covered would be great, Not sure how you would do this though,
But let the people who use the roads the most pay for them,

colm_mcm

€500 a year for everything. Higher users spend enough on fuel taxes already, and €200 is too little for use of the roads for a year anyway.