Ideal classic ff340 gas boiler

jordo76

hi guys

i have a major problem with the boiler at the min! it just don't want to fire up, OK i might have done something wrong ill give you the low down now first the rad in the front bedroom seemed to be half hot and cold top cold so tough to bleed the rads so what i done was

1) fire up the boiler and let the rads heat up a little then turned off
2) started to bleed from the that rad which i think is the furthest away from the boiler, air pressure released and rad heated up
3) carried on to the rest of the rads in the house
4) fired back up the burner and job was OxO so i tough (for the night)
5) turned boiler back on this morning and nothing

now there is power to the unit itself it sounds like it is trying to kick in but not firing i checked the thermostat and made it click to confirm the it was set to over the already cold house and nothing, the gas is on and no problems there (fire in sitting room) could i have drained to much water out of the system or are they a self contained unit which don't need to be topped up

thanks for any advice

Dave

gdavis

have u filler loop on system to top up?what does pressure gauge at boiler read?

jordo76

hi gdavis

thanks for the reply, unfortunately i don't know what a filler loop is can you explain what it looks like and were i should find it and the pressure gauge is reading 0bar, it has kicked it 3 times since the last post just for about 30secs and only the rads upstairs are slightly heating up just enough that u can feel the difference

gdavis

u need to repressurise system through filler loop.it may be in hot press,silver flexi pipe with valve on it.maybe few pics of hot press pipework and any visible pipes above boiler and will be able to sort for u

jordo76

hi guys

here's a few pics i took if there's anything else you need just shout and ill do my best

thanks again

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4625696839485.2193531.1204697100&type=3

gdavis

pic wont load

jordo76

sry can you try this link please

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4625696839485.2193531.1204697100&type=1&l=64a7a78106

jordo76

or even this lot

crosstownk

You have zero system pressure and I'd say that this is your problem. The gauge in one of those photos reads zero. It should read a minimum of 1 bar. Essentially, you don't have enough water in your system to heat the radiators.

Every time you bleed a radiator you release system pressure. This pressure can only be restored by topping up the system via the filling loop. Find the filler and top up accordingly. It looks like you have a sealed system so the filler valve will be closed under normal circumstances and is only opened to top up the system.

gdavis

the copper pipe in the back corner of hot press,its hard to tell but does tht link in to heating pipes at cylinder and if so is there a gate valve up bit higher out of range of ur photo?its the 1/2 inch copper at back right hand corner of hot press. im presuming it is fed from tank in attic into ur heating system,should have valve on it?

jordo76

thanks for all the info crosstownk

is this a major job or could i do it myself and it this filler tank easy access ??? do i need to get a plumber or what would be the next step to take

thanks again

crosstownk

Its as simple as turning a tap on. You just need to identify where the filler tap is. Usually it's fed by the water mains. Look for a tap that feeds from the mains that is normally closed. When you open it you'll see the needle in the gauge rise rapidly.

gdavis

all u need to do it is a vent key for rads and if u have a valve on copper pipe i mentioned u just have to open that and let water back into system,before venting rads starting downstairs,be sure to keep eye on gauge and turn valve off when u are happy that u have water at all rad vents and pressure is at 1 bar.although it may not even reach 1 bar if it is tank fed

crosstownk

The second and third pictures show a silver braided pipe. Follow it and see if there is a tap that's closed in line. If there is it will be your filling loop.

jordo76

just u/l more photos now and yea gdavis there is a feed coming from the attic with a gate valve on it

jordo76

crosstownk

jordo76 wrote: »

there is a feed coming from the attic with a gate valve on it

If you open (turn anti clockwise) this valve does the pressure gauge rise? You may need to open a radiator bleed valve to expel air as the filling water takes it's place.

jordo76

clock wise closed anti clockwise open and it seem to be very tight should i force the issue

crosstownk

jordo76 wrote: »

clock wise closed anti clockwise open and it seem to be very tight should i force the issue

If it's closed it won't turn clockwise.

Will it turn anti-clock?

gdavis

crosstown,that flexi is just off expansion vessel,jordo if that is same pipe as in pic 7 above,the furthest pipe away, then it is feeding ur heating system and should be closed,if u turn anti clockwise u are opening it and letting water into system.if it hasnt been open in long time it will be stiff

crosstownk

gdavis wrote: »

crosstown,that flexi is just off expansion vessel,jordo if that is same pipe as in pic 7 above,the furthest pipe away, then it is feeding ur heating system and should be closed,if u turn anti clockwise u are opening it and letting water into system

Yep - it looks like the filler loop.

gdavis

u may need to put teatowel/towel over handle to get good grip!

jordo76

the valve on this was already open along with the other 2 in the pic just not seen

crosstownk

They look more like balance valves for your coil in the hot water cylinder.

jordo76

ok i have everything open anything with a valve on it still nothing tryed bleeding from the bottom up no pressure water out of all rads downstairs and nothing out of the rads upstairs tryed with boiler on and off nothing now trying with all rads off and workin from bottom up after this am i looking at a healty bill ?? or am i totaly ****ing up somewere

gdavis

follow that pipe up to attic and see where it comes from,possibly another valve on it,u havent f.cked aanything up,chill !

jordo76

followed up to attic and leads straight to tank no valves on it apart from the 1 in the hotpress and it was open already

could it be any chance be on the mains

thanks for you patience

jordo76

just looking at the boiler and the are 3 pipes going into it 2 at the top and 1 on the bottom which has a ground attached to it

gdavis

thats gas pipe with earth dont go near it

gdavis

valve must be f.cked,does happen to gate valves,that is definitely feed to heating

K.Flyer

If that 1/2" from the tank is the feed then by right there should be an NRV on the line after the gate.
Jordo,
There might be a non return valve further down that 1/2" from the tank, it could be stuck.
Follow the pipe down from the gate valve, you are looking for a brass piece approx 2.5 inchs long. If you find it, give it a few sharp taps with a spanner.

jordo76

hi guys this is the pipe from that valve which seems to go from a small pipe to a bigger 1

gdavis

yeah,thats connecting to ur heating system,there is nothing else on the pipe below valve til it connects to bigger pipe?u sure u have opened that gate valve?and there is no other valve on that pipe between tank in attic and that valve,it may be just a penny valve with a flat head screw type valve,u could easily miss it,if not then i would say gate valve is problem,it is stuck in off position

jordo76

ok i striped the insulation from the pipe to see if there is anything on it nothing, if it is the valve do i just drain the tank in the attic and replace valve or is there sill going to be some pressure in the system

gdavis

what u could do is loosen nut slowly on bottom/heating side of valve,u will need two adjustable spanners/grips.hold valve with one and nut with the other.dont undo it off all threads so u can tighten back up quickly if needs be.have a towel or 2 handy.u should get no water at nut if valve is ceased.u should be able to disconnect nut now,leaving "live " side connected.u should now be able to gland/body of valve from underneath it.and with a basin /bucket u can turn handle to see if anything opens.before u do this,u could undo nut holding handle on valve,remove red handle and put adjustable spanner on spindle and see if it will turn anti clockwise i.e. the handle was problem and just spinning

jordo76

well if i looked properly i might have found this, is it what im looking for and do i just open the nut on it ???

gdavis

that is ur non return,u might get lucky by giving it a tap with a spanner,if not if u loosen top nut on it a little,using 2 spanners again,and if u get a decent bit of water,u will know that valve is ok and nrv is problem.only loosen maybe 3/4 of a turn

jordo76

ok opened up the to nut and water flowed out of it so its not the gate valve then opened the bottom and nothing, should i separate it and make sure as it looks like that it was soldered together ???

gdavis

u can now turn off gate valve and remove nrv,blow through it in direction of arrow.but i would say its off to woodies with u to get new one and replace !!

gdavis

before u do that just check arrow is pointing towards heating coil i.e downwards and that its not installed wrong way around

K.Flyer

Bingo!!
Always a problem with them on low pressure systems.

Jordo,
In trying to get things working, did you open the two valves fully that are to the right at the bottom of your cylinder?

gdavis

it took a while.......... but result lol

K.Flyer

gdavis wrote: »

it took a while.......... but result lol

But now the cylinder balancing valve may be wide open as a result!

jordo76

lads still not a result yet, changed the nrv and got water at that point and nothing after that now in fairness it was fu*ked and seems to be open constantly

any other ideas at this stage tried bleeding again and no joy there

and all valves are open atm what do i need to do

gdavis

did u open up gate valve again? did u check to see gate valve opened up when u had nrv out? and did u install new nrv right way round i.e arrow facing down towards downstairs?

K.Flyer

Did you fit it with the arrow facing to the hot water cylinder

jordo76

yea gate vale open water to nrv and arrow facing down

K.Flyer

Ok. Had this prob before where the head of pressure was to low to push past the spring on the nrv. Possibly the same problem now.
Is this pipe from your large storage tank in the attic or a smaller one about the size of four shoe boxes?

jordo76

it leads straight from from the main attic tank i took off the nrv and put on a manual valve with it open and its like a blocked pipe or something

gdavis

thats very odd.u 100 percent sure u are getting waterdown to new valve u put in and beyond??

K.Flyer

jordo76 wrote: »

it leads straight from from the main attic tank i took off the nrv and put on a manual valve with it open and its like a blocked pipe or something

Has the pipe got some sort of a build up of dirt / scale or something in it that you can feel or see?