Dogs in cages.

kneemos

I know of several people who keep thier dogs in a cage in the garden for some reason.What's the point having a dog if it's locked in a cage,at night fair enough but surely it's just a bit cruel to have them locked up all day.Just bugs me a bit when I see it so I thought I'd have a moan about it.

loveisdivine

I know of some people that have dog runs in the garden. the dogs are kept in them at certain times of day.
Not sure about cages though, I assume you mean something smaller than a run? I dont know what the piont of that would be.

andreac

kneemos wrote: »

I know of several people who keep thier dogs in a cage in the garden for some reason.What's the point having a dog if it's locked in a cage,at night fair enough but surely it's just a bit cruel to have them locked up all day.Just bugs me a bit when I see it so I thought I'd have a moan about it.

Do you mean a dog run? Its much safer to keep a dog in there, esp if theres a risk they can get out of the garden or escape if you arent there all day. Once the dog is getting enough exercise apart from that, theres nothing wrong with a dog being in a proper dog run for a few hours during the day.

kneemos

No just cages.

andreac

Sounds like a puppy farm to me if you ask me.... Sure how would the dog have shelter if its in a cage? I would def report that to the ISPCA.

andreac

Is it a cage like this one?
http://www.dogcagesdirect.ie/category-item-1/dog-crate-medium-dcg01-m.html

kneemos

andreac wrote: »

Is it a cage like this one?
http://www.dogcagesdirect.ie/category-item-1/dog-crate-medium-dcg01-m.html

No much bigger,maybe ten by ten foot and four or five feet high.There not puppy farms just peoples pets who are kept in cages at the end of the garden.I can think of about five that I've seen.

SillyMangoX

You are talking about a run, it is a safe and effective way of containing your dog. A lot of working dogs would be left in a run all the time whereas pets would be kept there while owners are away or giving the dog air.

kneemos

SillyMangoX wrote: »

You are talking about a run, it is a safe and effective way of containing your dog. A lot of working dogs would be left in a run all the time whereas pets would be kept there while owners are away or giving the dog air.

Looks cruel to me whatever you call it.

SillyMangoX

Be more cruel to let the dogs wander.

kylith

Less cruel than risking the dog getting out and being run over, or risking an opportunistic thief stealing the dog, or forcing it to try hold its bladder and bowel for up to 8 hours, which they'd have to if they were in a house. Actually, if they were in a house they'd probably have even less space than that.

A lot of dogs tend to nap a lot during the day, often the only reason that mine would move more than 5' from the bed is to demand a belly rub. Being in a 10' run for a few hours while their owner is at work isn't cruel.

westies4ever

kylith wrote: »

Less cruel than risking the dog getting out and being run over, or risking an opportunistic thief stealing the dog.

A lot of dogs tend to nap a lot during the day, often the only reason that mine would move more than 5' from the bed is to demand a belly rub. Being in a 10' run for a few hours while their owner is at work isn't cruel.

This. As long as the dog has food/water/shelter and isnt there 24/7, I think this is responsible dog ownership. Granted, mine are indoors but thats my preference. I dont see the issue?

andreac

Then its a dog run not a cage, as thats what i thought it was. Nothing wrong with them at all. They are the safe and responsible way to keep your dog contained when you arent there.

kneemos

westies4ever wrote: »

This. As long as the dog has food/water/shelter and isnt there 24/7, I think this is responsible dog ownership. Granted, mine are indoors but thats my preference. I dont see the issue?

The issue is having the dog locked up for most of it's life.What's the point having it if you have to keep it caged.

westies4ever

kneemos wrote: »

The issue is having the dog locked up for most of it's life.What's the point having it if you have to keep it caged.

But are you sure its 'most of its life'? If the dog is in there 24/7, its owners never interact with it or take it for walks then yes its an issue. Containing the dog while they are at work, out for a while, have visitors etc - theres no issue.

Like I said, not my preference, I keep mine indoors but thats not for everyone.

Keeping them in a run is far safer and more responsible than letting them wander.

And you keep saying 'caged'. Its not a cage, its a run. Some dog owners even have their dogs sleep in cages - they're called crates. My fella slept in one for a few weeks when I had him first as it's what he was used to. He loved it - it was his little den - I'd often find him climbing into it during the day for a nap. He's even close the door on it himself. He prefers sleeping with his mate now so i dont use it anymore.

Point is, it might look wrong to you but the dogs are probably quite happy.

kneemos

Why have you got a problem calling them cages?

andreac

Because they arent cages, they are dog runs, very big difference.

westies4ever

kneemos wrote: »

Why have you got a problem calling them cages?

no problem if thats what they are but they're not. I think you are falling into the trap of humanising the dog. Looks like no matter what I say, you're not going to listen anyway. from my last post, you latched onto the 'cage' word? Did none of the rest of it register?

kneemos

If they are used responsibly I'd imagine a few hours a day locked up is probably no harm but from what I've seen they seem to spend most of thier lives in these things.Not making judgements just find it strange.

westies4ever

But sure then that probably makes me cruel. I work full time, getting home at lunch for 45 minutes. The rest of the day, my dogs are 'locked up' inside the house.

Like I said, as long as the dog has shelter, water and food and is walked and interacted with when the owner comes home, I see no issue.

kneemos

westies4ever wrote: »

no problem if thats what they are but they're not. I think you are falling into the trap of humanising the dog. Looks like no matter what I say, you're not going to listen anyway. from my last post, you latched onto the 'cage' word? Did none of the rest of it register?

Sounds like your trying to make them more humane by calling them dog runs,which thier clearly not.

andreac

kneemos wrote: »

Sounds like your trying to make them more humane by calling them dog runs,which thier clearly not.

Of course they are humane. Do they hurt or injure the dog?? No, they keep them safe from harm, being stolen and stop them from wandering the streets or escaping from someones garden.
Please tell me how they are not humane?

My dogs are in a stable from 9-1pm, get a run at lunch, then back to the stable from 2-5pm then home to my house for the eve where they get walks etc. So they are kept confined and SAFE for the hours that im not with them, its what RESPONSIBLE owners do and looks like these owners are being responsible too with their dog runs.

Dogs sleep for most of the day in case you didnt know, they dont go galloping around the garden all day, so once they are getting their daily exercise, putting them in a dog run is prefectly fine.

Do you own a dog btw?

westies4ever

kneemos wrote: »

Sounds like your trying to make them more humane by calling them dog runs,which thier clearly not.

:rolleyes: ok kneemos, i give up - you're right and i'm wrong. maybe you should ring the ISPCA and report the owners if you feel so strongly.

kneemos

westies4ever wrote: »

:rolleyes: ok kneemos, i give up - you're right and i'm wrong. maybe you should ring the ISPCA and report the owners if you feel so strongly.

I don't feel that strongly,I'm not trying to have a go at anyone,but as I said from what I've seen these things aren't used responsibly.

andreac

kneemos wrote: »

I don't feel that strongly,I'm not trying to have a go at anyone,but as I said from what I've seen these things aren't used responsibly.

How and in what way are they not? Do the dogs looks distressed?

gregers85

@kneemos where do you keep your dogs when you are not at home???

kneemos

gregers85 wrote: »

@kneemos where do you keep your dogs when you are not at home???

When I had a dog they were left in the garden.

kneemos

andreac wrote: »

How and in what way are they not? Do the dogs looks distressed?

One of looked distressed,he was trying his best to get out,the others maybe didn't know anything else which is worse.

Toulouse

Well then report the owners http://www.ispca.ie/suspect_animal_cruelty/ and let someone who knows what they are talking about decide whether it's cruelty and neglect or not.

gregers85

kneemos wrote: »

When I had a dog they were left in the garden.

is your garden enclosed?? if it is I dont see the difference in having them in an enclosed run! All my dogs are kept in dog runs during the day while I'm at work and they are all healthy and happy dogs!!

andreac

If you are seriously concerned for the welfare of the dogs then report them.

OldNotWIse

SillyMangoX wrote: »

Be more cruel to let the dogs wander.

True...provided the dogs are brought out for sufficient exercise of course

kneemos

gregers85 wrote: »

is your garden enclosed?? if it is I dont see the difference in having them in an enclosed run! All my dogs are kept in dog runs during the day while I'm at work and they are all healthy and happy dogs!!

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

OldNotWIse

westies4ever wrote: »

But sure then that probably makes me cruel. I work full time, getting home at lunch for 45 minutes. The rest of the day, my dogs are 'locked up' inside the house.

Like I said, as long as the dog has shelter, water and food and is walked and interacted with when the owner comes home, I see no issue.

I beat myself up over my dog being in during the day (only short time as parents away, I usually just have her thursday night to monday - shared custody lol) but now she is with me full time for a few weeks. Am driven demented rushign home to her at lunch on buses etc and trying to organise my time around her. I'm lucky I have an understanding colleague thats all I can say

kneemos

andreac wrote: »

If you are seriously concerned for the welfare of the dogs then report them.

For being kept in a humane "dog run"?

kylith

kneemos wrote: »

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

And where would they toilet while you're out? Do you have a lot of rooms in your house that would be bigger than 10'?

I videoed my dogs in my garden for a week. The furthest they moved was about 6' to have a pee, and then straight back to bed.

andreac

kneemos wrote: »

For being kept in a humane "dog run"?

You are the one with the problem, not us. You dont think they are humane, so if thats what you think then report them as YOU obviously dont think they are humane.

westies4ever

kneemos wrote: »

For being kept in a humane "dog run"?

:rolleyes: make your mind up - either its cruel or it isnt; if you think it is, report them; arguing on Boards isnt going to help.

gregers85

kneemos wrote: »

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

stimulation can be provided through chew toys such as kongs and the dogs bark should be all the intruder deterrent that is needed!

westies4ever

kneemos wrote: »

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

my dogs spend their day in the living room - generally on the same arm chair; in the corner of the room is a box full of their chew toys and old shoes etc. they can access it when they want. i have yet to come home to find them using any of the toys. they use them when me or my husband are around and they want to play. during the day they seem more interested in sleeping. more often than not they are in the same place they were when i left.

kneemos

westies4ever wrote: »

:rolleyes: make your mind up - either its cruel or it isnt; if you think it is, report them; arguing on Boards isnt going to help.

Obviously not.

Dunny

I have a cage for my dog which she goes in at night or am out for a short period or i am cleaning. Is there a problem with that?

Ms Tootsie

I think the main issue here is that the OP does not understand how dog runs or even crates work for dogs.

A dog run provides ample space for a dog while ensuring it is safe and secure from potential hazards such as predators, weather conditions, other dogs etc. They can be a good place for the dog to have a time out when there are visitors that might be afriad of dogs.

A crate provides a safe place for a dog to relax away from the normal hussle and bussle of a house. It acts as a den of sorts where the dog can go when he or she wants some down time. Crates serve a useful purpose to prevent (and rectify) problems associated with destructive behaviour and fear of strangers or other types of people. They help with house training, with visitors who are afraid of dogs and can be used when travelling with a dog.

Dog runs are not cruel when used correctly i.e. by owners ensuring their pet gets plenty of exercise.

I crate my dog when I leave the house for a few hours, this DOES NOT make me a cruel pet owner, rather the opposite. I know my guy will not get himself into any trouble when I am not there to help. Having vidoed him while I have been out I can tell you he spends the majority of his short time in their sleeping or chewing on the frozen kong we leave to keep him entertained. He gets plenty of exercise and usually as soon as we let him out he is taken for a good 45 minute to an hour long walk / run.

The main gripe I have is that the OP has come on here to spout nonsense about something he/she does not fully understand. The rest of the posters have simply been trying to explain what exactly a dog run is and how it serves its purpose to provide a safe enviornment for a dog so it is a bit rude for the OP to say they are cruel treatments for a dog.

westies4ever

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Excellent post.

kylith

I actually used to be in the 'crates are cruel' camp until I had to get them for travelling. After a bit of hassle getting Ra into one to start with I realised how much they love them. Tee likes to go in and have a sleep, and these days I can barely put the crates together because the two dogs are both trying to get in as soon as they see it.

lisa_celtic

this post almost has me feeling bad.. Im keeping my 4 month old yorkie in a large metal crate when I'm at work, saying that i have gone home every lunch time to let him out and my boyfriend is home before me in the evenings and he does be out when i get home. I personally think the crates are great, he doesn't go toilet in it and also it keeps him out of trouble (chewing etc) so were never mad at him, i was thinking about getting a large run in the garden for next summer hope my neighbor doesn't try report me

mariecxx

most people in ireland cant look after their animals!

sionnaic

I think the key thing is that runs and crates are great **when used correctly * *

I can see both sides of the argument here - these are perfectly acceptable tools in the hands of responsible pet owners.

However on the flip side, they are all too frequently abused by bad pet owners and that should be recognised.
People who do leave their poor dogs out in all weathers without appropriate shelter, care and attention, who don't walk or ensure their dogs are stimulated or care that their dogs are lonely & bored with no life. THESE people shouldn't be allowed have animals, let alone a crate or run to put them in.

And if the OP thinks that the situations he is talking about fall into this category then yes he definitely should report them.

maggiepip

sionnaic wrote: »

I think the key thing is that runs and crates are great **when used correctly * *

I can see both sides of the argument here - these are perfectly acceptable tools in the hands of responsible pet owners.

However on the flip side, they are all too frequently abused by bad pet owners and that should be recognised.
People who do leave their poor dogs out in all weathers without appropriate shelter, care and attention, who don't walk or ensure their dogs are stimulated or care that their dogs are lonely & bored with no life. THESE people shouldn't be allowed have animals, let alone a crate or run to put them in.

And if the OP thinks that the situations he is talking about fall into this category then yes he definitely should report them.

This is an excellent post and my thoughts exactly.

I cannot stand people who think it is ok to leave a dog in a crate all day while they are at work - or even worse still just to keep the dog out of the way.

For gods sake dogs need room to move around - there is also lots of research now that dogs are developing muscle wastage, and kidney problems (from holding too long) and BIG behavioural problems from being locked in crates all day.

It is inhumane - and I also cant stand the "repeaters" who have been brainwashed by the companies who sell these crate chant out the mantra "they are the dogs den and they love it" OMG!!! - if a crate is left OPEN for a dog and they love it then thats great - and it does mimic a den because the dog has a CHOICE to go into it or not and leave as they please. If someone MUST lock their dog in for the odd hour here and there that is ok, but not 5,6,7 hours a day (and often more)

A dogs den in the wild is NOT a place they are LOCKED into by humans and have to wait hours for humans to let them out.

The OP sounds like she is upset seeing dogs out in runs all the time - and so would I be. Why in the name of god cant people who decide to get a dog put up some fencing???? - answer they couldnt be bothered and a pen is an easy solution. Give them some space. Runs are also ok for SHORT periods of time here and there but out all day (and god forbid maybe night) in an area of a few feet is horrible for a dog - even if they do get their 1 hour walk - that leaves 23 hours locked up. Wow ..what a life for a dog!!!!!

Of course the people who do this tell us their dogs are really happy.......thats talk to suit themselves - or the dog sleeps all the time....REALLY ? perhaps they have nothing else to do and are bored off their trollies. When people do have to leave their dogs alone fence off some garden space - if you are leaving your dogs indoors while you are out for hours and hours - why cant you just plug out electric wires if you are concerned about safety (perhaps that would be too much trouble??) or leave them in the kitchen with wires unplugged.

Why cant people include dogs a a family member?? why cant they train them not to be destructive - if thats an issue. What a lot of people have intense ignorance about are dogs are not "just a dog, and dogs should be outside" Dogs are happiest and also programmed to be in the company of their human family with lots of stimulation - DOMESTICATION did this to them - it changed their DNA. They want fun, company, interaction and love and thrive on family life balanced between being indoors and out.

So to the OP - I know exactly where you are coming from.

kneemos

Well said.

kneemos

I would feel uneasy about reporting it if I'm honest as I don't think it would achieve much,plus from what I've seen and the posts here it appears to be quite a common thing to lock up your dog.Don't know if there's much they could do anyway if the dogs being well fed and exercised.Its the pointlessness of it that get's me,why have a dog if you have to keep it locked up and if you do have to keep it locked up perhaps you shouldn't have one in fairness to the dog.