Elwood to resign at end of season

its_phil

Word from Brendan Fanning is Eric Elwood will resign from his position as head coach of Connacht at the end of the season.

Stress being a motivating factor apparently.

Devastated is the correct word

thomond2006

Looks like Kidney has found his job for next season. ROG to be signed for next season along with Tony Buckley.


Pasted from Team Talk thread:

If he's weary of it, you can't blame him. If anything, it will make him even
more motivated this season to succeed with Connacht.

You'd also wonder if he is gunning for some role with Ireland.

phog

Big blow for Connacht. I wonder will it be filled by another foreign coach.

profitius

If EE does leave, I think Connacht should look to New Zealand for a new coach, if they can afford a good one. Someone to continue where EE has left off and develop the next generation of Connacht players coming through.

Swiwi

profitius wrote: »

If EE does leave, I think Connacht should look to New Zealand for a new coach, if they can afford a good one. Someone to continue where EE has left off and develop the next generation of Connacht players coming through.

I don't know. As much as I do think NZ produces good coaches, does it really benefit Ireland to have a NZ coach at each of the 4 provinces?

I guess Schmidt might have had a chance to apply for the Ireland job by then, although I believe he wants to return to NZ?

[Jackass]

Terrible news for Connacht, he's been doing such a good job.

Eddie O'Sullivan perhaps?

My preference would be Kidney. I'd like him to take any job other than Leinster and sooner rather than later.

Joe Schmidt doesn't finish until the end of next season and will almost certainly return to New Zealand (unless we can talk him into another extension). Conor O'Sheas contract finishes with Harlequins at the same time though.

freyners

Kidney is a good coach and two or three years ago I would have gladly taken him to Connacht

However we are finally playing some expansive rugby with some very talented young backs, exactly the kind of environment I would hate to see Kidney wth his conservative, safety first gameplan. Plus its going to be hard for him to to coach Connacht when he has been so effective at ignoring Connacht players for years

As I said in the Team talk thread, Id rather hear the official word on this before bandying about possible replacements. Said to see Eric go when we finally are getting towards where we want to be

Teferi

You'd have to wonder if this is a play for the Irish job although I could also understand if he is simply worn out.

Podge_irl

If EOS is still sniffing around for a job, Connacht could do a lot, lot worse.

eyeball kid

Really disappointed if this turns out to be the case. The man really is synonymous with Connacht rugby and you can tell how passionate he is about the province. There's no other coach that would give as much as Elwood in the role and his presence would be greatly missed I'd imagine.

profitius

Swiwi wrote: »

I don't know. As much as I do think NZ produces good coaches, does it really benefit Ireland to have a NZ coach at each of the 4 provinces?

I guess Schmidt might have had a chance to apply for the Ireland job by then, although I believe he wants to return to NZ?

What Ireland need to do now is upskill their coaches. I don't care where the coaches are from as long as they're the best coaches. The more NZ coaches here, the better for the long term development of the game in Ireland.

phog

Teferi wrote: »

You'd have to wonder if this is a play for the Irish job although I could also understand if he is simply worn out.

I cant see how resigning from Connacht would help his cause with an Irish job that's not vacant.

And if it was up for grabs I'm not sure that Elwood would be top of the list.

Teferi

phog wrote: »

I cant see how resigning from Connacht would help his cause with an Irish job that's not vacant.

And if it was up for grabs I'm not sure that Elwood would be top of the list.

You don't see how leaving his current role just as a better role opens up could be construed as making a play for it?

I never said he would get it so I don't know how you believe I said that.

Zzippy

[Jackass] wrote: »

My preference would be Kidney. I'd like him to take any job other than Leinster and sooner rather than later.

Thanks a lot! :rolleyes:

Podge_irl wrote: »

If EOS is still sniffing around for a job, Connacht could do a lot, lot worse.

EOS is a great backs coach, with the backs we have coming through I'd be quite happy to have him in charge, I think he would help bring out their potential.

phog

Teferi wrote: »

You don't see how leaving his current role just as a better role opens up could be construed as making a play for it?

Assuming the Irish job will be vacant, I'm sure any of the coaches in the provinces that want the job could apply for it from their current position.

Why would someone feel that annoucing their resignation so soon into a new season would help their cause?

I never said he would get it so I don't know how you believe I said that

I never said that you said he'd get it

Cpt_Blackbeard

I think we'll might see Elwood take on the Irish job in a caretaker's role when Kidney is gone in the summer.

It might be worth mentioning that Laurie Fischer is pictured with Gert Smal in the newest shots of Munster training on Sportsfile. I wonder if he is back in the country for the Connacht role?

Podge_irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

It might be worth mentioning that Laurie Fischer is pictured with Gert Smal in the newest shots of Munster training on Sportsfile. I wonder if he is back in the country for the Connacht role?

I bloody hope not.

AngeGal

I really hope Elwood stays on. If he does go though, what about promotion from within? Nigel Carolan has done a great job with the Academy and was/is (?) Ireland backs coach for the u21s I think? Although perhaps he would benefit from being backs coach to Connacht before taking on the head coach position.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Podge_irl wrote: »

I bloody hope not.

I agree, but I'd rather that than him getting involved with Munster or Ireland.

phog

I wonder would Foley or Jackman look at it?

Podge_irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I agree, but I'd rather that than him getting involved with Munster or Ireland.

Well yes, but I wouldn't wish him on anyone.

I think Connacht need a reasonably established coach in order to continue the good work that has been done. The last thing they need is a coach learning on the job. I definitely wouldn't suggest Jackman, Foley would be a runner but I doubt he'd leave Munster for the job.

Dan Parks to be player coach next season after leading Connacht to their best ever RaboPro12 season?

its_phil

Nigel Carolan would be my first choice. Knows the set up and very passionate

porterbelly

Eric is a legend, but hearing from people within the camp and from people close to him, it might be best for his sake that he takes a step back. Eric has been consumed by Connacht since he was playing, when he became head coach that went even further. He's a big worrier, he takes everything to heart and is constantly worried about everything to do with Connacht. He's aged an awful lot in the past couple of years and after all, there's more important things in life.

Eric is and will always be a Connacht legend, a great player and loyal to the core. He has taken us from being the scrubbers of the league to a very respected club around Europe. That's no mean feat with the resources that has been available to him. There is no doubt, Eric will be leaving Connacht in a better place

porterbelly

Don't think the job will go to anyone internally, think Carolan could and will and do a great job down the line but he's happy where he is, and maybe an experienced hand might be best to steer us to the next level

Domestically, Eddie O Sullivan and Brian McLaughlin would have to be the frontrunners

gally74

Eddie o Sullivan please

CatFromHue

freyners wrote: »

Kidney is a good coach and two or three years ago I would have gladly taken him to Connacht

However we are finally playing some expansive rugby with some very talented young backs, exactly the kind of environment I would hate to see Kidney wth his conservative, safety first gameplan. Plus its going to be hard for him to to coach Connacht when he has been so effective at ignoring Connacht players for years

As I said in the Team talk thread, Id rather hear the official word on this before bandying about possible replacements. Said to see Eric go when we finally are getting towards where we want to be

You're gas.

Kidney brought two Heineken cups to Munster as well as a Celtic League and a Celtic Cup but that's not good enough for you. When you talk about young players Kidney has a pretty good record with youth teams but that's not good enough for you.

Even in his season with Leinster he improved big time on what had gone before but again that's not good enough for you. In 04/05 Leinster finished No.1 seed going into the HEC playoffs and finished third in the Celtic League. The season before we didn't get out of our group in the HEC and finished 8th in the Celtic League.

There are alot of problems with Ireland at the moment and i would prefer a new coach at the end of the season but your post is bizarre to say the least.

If anything Kidney is exactly what Connacht need, an experienced coach who has tasted alot of success with the provinces.

fitz

CatFromHue wrote: »

You're gas.

Kidney brought two Heineken cups to Munster as well as a Celtic League and a Celtic Cup but that's not good enough for you. When you talk about young players Kidney has a pretty good record with youth teams but that's not good enough for you.

Even in his season with Leinster he improved big time on what had gone before but again that's not good enough for you. In 04/05 Leinster finished No.1 seed going into the HEC playoffs and finished third in the Celtic League. The season before we didn't get out of our group in the HEC and finished 8th in the Celtic League.

There are alot of problems with Ireland at the moment and i would prefer a new coach at the end of the season but your post is bizarre to say the least.

If anything Kidney is exactly what Connacht need, an experienced coach who has tasted alot of success with the provinces.

All of Kidney's success came in an era when his gameplan was effective.
He has been shown as completely inept when it comes to the modern game and is the last person any of the provinces should want if they're looking to be successful.

bamboozle

Eddie O'Sullivan or Brian Mclaughlin with the likes of Jackman/Foley/Bob Casey/Flannery as specialist forwards/line-out/scrum coaches.

i'd much rather see a young Irish coach be given the chance.

Hats off to Eric, here's to a big season ahead for Connacht.

CatFromHue

fitz wrote: »

All of Kidney's success came in an era when his gameplan was effective.
He has been shown as completely inept when it comes to the modern game and is the last person any of the provinces should want if they're looking to be successful.

He is struggling big time at the international stage, you know the highest level there is, but he is not inept. He has a coaching career and success that most modern coaches would love. He has his faults but he is not a Lievremont or Martin Johnson type coach.

I think you're over estimating the modern game too......Saracens are pretty successful with an awful style of rugby. Munsters was never as bad as theirs too.

GerM

I'll be the akward one. Elwood is a Connacht legend and bleeds green. He has been there in one capacity of another for a very long time now. However, this should be seen as an exciting opportunity for Connacht. Yes, Elwood has done some good work, put off field structures in place and overseen promising development in youth. However, the results on the pitch don't lie. There was a record 14 match losing streak last season. Take the results against the Italian sides out of the equation and the league points achieved aren't much different to those under Bradley in his last season. The presence in the HEC is great for out west but it was a matter of right place, right time rather than qualification.

I wish Elwood all the best but I think he has taken this squad as far as it can go. His work behind the scenes has been excellent. I can only assume he has been heavily involved with the improved treatment of Connacht by the IRFU with additional NIQ players being signed and the scouting of players from elsewhere. However, a proven coach who can instil the right systems in place on the field could see Connacht move steadily up the table. They have the talent on the field to do it. They still rely on absolute adrenalin and manic ferocity in games to get a result rather than patterns and systems being implemented correctly. They remind me of Ireland in the 90s to be honest. A very good, solid coach could be the catalyst to Connacht moving up beyond the likes of Dragons, Edinburgh and Cardiff to a mid table spot along with taking a scalp or two in Europe.

fitz

CatFromHue wrote: »

He is struggling big time at the international stage, you know the highest level there is, but he is not inept. He has a coaching career and success that most modern coaches would love. He has his faults but he is not a Lievremont or Martin Johnson type coach.

I think you're over estimating the modern game too......Saracens are pretty successful with an awful style of rugby. Munsters was never as bad as theirs too.

We'll agree to disagree.
I think his record since the rule changes came in speaks for itself.

On topic, I'd agree with GerM.
Elwood has done incredible work for Connacht, but fresh ideas could be just what they need to bring them forward after last seasons stagnation.

freyners

CatFromHue wrote: »

You're gas.

Kidney brought two Heineken cups to Munster as well as a Celtic League and a Celtic Cup but that's not good enough for you. When you talk about young players Kidney has a pretty good record with youth teams but that's not good enough for you.

Even in his season with Leinster he improved big time on what had gone before but again that's not good enough for you. In 04/05 Leinster finished No.1 seed going into the HEC playoffs and finished third in the Celtic League. The season before we didn't get out of our group in the HEC and finished 8th in the Celtic League.

There are alot of problems with Ireland at the moment and i would prefer a new coach at the end of the season but your post is bizarre to say the least.

If anything Kidney is exactly what Connacht need, an experienced coach who has tasted alot of success with the provinces.

i had a response typed but fitz has laid out my concerns a good bit better than I could. all I can add is that the list of achievements hes won is back when his approach to the game was effective.

btw sarries gameplan may not be the best (im takign your word on this as they are not a team I follow), they are palying in a league where alot of teams play muck rugby anyways

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

He is struggling big time at the international stage, you know the highest level there is, but he is not inept. He has a coaching career and success that most modern coaches would love. He has his faults but he is not a Lievremont or Martin Johnson type coach.

I think you're over estimating the modern game too......Saracens are pretty successful with an awful style of rugby. Munsters was never as bad as theirs too.

Funnily enough I was reading the BBC column by Guscott the other day, and he was talking about Saracens' style of play, the both he and English fans in the comments universally agreed that they needed to change it.

It will win games and the occasional one-off big match, but it's certainly not the future of rugby and you just have to look at the best teams in the world recently, and those winning leagues and cups, to see that. New Zealand, Leinster and Harlequins all take a more more creative approach.

I'm not a fan of Sarries' play. I understand winning is what it's all about but I believe they will suffer in the long run if they don't change and adapt. They need to develop their players in the more creative and attacking direction the game is moving.

I really don't think Connacht should be looking to Kidney, EOS would be a good appointment.

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

You're gas.

Kidney brought two Heineken cups to Munster as well as a Celtic League and a Celtic Cup but that's not good enough for you. When you talk about young players Kidney has a pretty good record with youth teams but that's not good enough for you.

Even in his season with Leinster he improved big time on what had gone before but again that's not good enough for you. In 04/05 Leinster finished No.1 seed going into the HEC playoffs and finished third in the Celtic League. The season before we didn't get out of our group in the HEC and finished 8th in the Celtic League.

There are alot of problems with Ireland at the moment and i would prefer a new coach at the end of the season but your post is bizarre to say the least.

If anything Kidney is exactly what Connacht need, an experienced coach who has tasted alot of success with the provinces.

In fairness Sarries are doing reasonably well in a league where the kind of game they play is the norm. In the HEC they haven't been blowing sides out of the water with any regularity.

I think the point re Kidneys inability to utilise a back line effectively in the modern game is a fair criticism given what we know. We haven't seen him do it under the new rules and it's not as though Munster were known for their world class back line while Kidney was in charge. Even at Leinster there were serious issues, with Drico saying he learned nothing new under him. On that basis I think he'd be a very poor choice for Connacht coach.

its_phil

GerM wrote: »

However, the results on the pitch don't lie. There was a record 14 match losing streak last season. Take the results against the Italian sides out of the equation and the league points achieved aren't much different to those under Bradley in his last season.

However, a proven coach who can instil the right systems in place on the field could see Connacht move steadily up the table. They have the talent on the field to do it. They still rely on absolute adrenalin and manic ferocity in games to get a result rather than patterns and systems being implemented correctly. A very good, solid coach could be the catalyst to Connacht moving up beyond the likes of Dragons, Edinburgh and Cardiff to a mid table spot along with taking a scalp or two in Europe.

I am going to have to sharply disagree with you here.

Please do not compare Elwood with Bradley. Bradley was abysmal with Connacht for his last couple seasons and while you may be taking the Italians into consideration we had a 50% win ratio against them in 10/11 and 25% in 11/12. Those results don't make that much of a difference. So while the results against the Italians were poor, the improvement against the rest of the league was outstanding. There was no more of this 'targetting' crap we had under Bradley where we would get drubbed everytime we went abroad. We started to pick up LBP's which were vital. The 14 game losing streak was very poor but there was some desperately unlucky times. It was still unacceptable though but it was made up for with a great run after the Quins game which still saw us finish in our best ever finish of 8th.

The defence and attack were improved remarkably. In Bradley's final season we score 20 tries and conceded 53. In Elwood's last seasons we scored 32 conceded 43 in 10/11 and 27-36 in 11/12. We had the 6th best try line defence in the league after being dead last under Bradley. That isn't adrenaline and manic ferocity, that's better systems implemented by a coach. Your record like that doesn't improve by accident.

As for moving ahead of the Dragons and Edinburgh, well we did that last season.

Believe me watch Connacht under Bradley vs Connacht under Elwood and you'll see a sharp difference

GerM

its_phil wrote: »

I am going to have to sharply disagree with you here.

Please do not compare Elwood with Bradley. Bradley was abysmal with Connacht for his last couple seasons and while you may be taking the Italians into consideration we had a 50% win ratio against them in 10/11 and 25% in 11/12. Those results don't make that much of a difference. So while the results against the Italians were poor, the improvement against the rest of the league was outstanding. There was no more of this 'targetting' crap we had under Bradley where we would get drubbed everytime we went abroad. We started to pick up LBP's which were vital. The 14 game losing streak was very poor but there was some desperately unlucky times. It was still unacceptable though but it was made up for with a great run after the Quins game which still saw us finish in our best ever finish of 8th.

The defence and attack were improved remarkably. In Bradley's final season we score 20 tries and conceded 53. In Elwood's last seasons we scored 32 conceded 43 in 10/11 and 27-36 in 11/12. We had the 6th best try line defence in the league after being dead last under Bradley. That isn't adrenaline and manic ferocity, that's better systems implemented by a coach. Your record like that doesn't improve by accident.

As for moving ahead of the Dragons and Edinburgh, well we did that last season.

Believe me watch Connacht under Bradley vs Connacht under Elwood and you'll see a sharp difference

You obviously have a lot of time for Elwood and that's understandable. But the results are there regardless of the manner or the defence or attack stats. There's one stat that matters and it's the points on the table at the end of the day. Connacht took 9 points from Italian sides last season (50%, not 25% win ratio) which would have had them on 28 points last season. Bradley's last season was 26. Elwood has taken them some of the way down the road they needed to but a change will be good for these guys. The young players have only had one voice coaching them and new ideas will be great for them and their development.

Fair point on Connacht getting ahead of Dragons and Edinburgh last season but, keep in mind, the Dragons had a number of important players at the WC and they were abysmal through that period (shipping 50 points in Treviso). Edinburgh basically threw in the towel after Christmas when the HEC looked to be coming good. Connacht need to push on and not be in that area at the bottom of the table (they were one win from finishing second last, last season).

It's not a direct criticism of Elwood, just a note that this isn't the worst thing from Connacht's perspective. He did some good work there undoubtedly. Connacht are never going to play the prettiest or most attractive rugby in the world. What they need is simple, effective rugby that wins games. I don't think Elwood can deliver that from what we've seen. They still perform at their best only in the biggest games with pure adrenalin and incredible effort such as we saw against Quins. The error count is still high, the mistakes are still basic. The players in the squad have improved but they need more direction now and new input.

porterbelly

I would presume that the new coach would have to go in under the existing structures, with Millard as backs coach and Dan McFarland as forwards coach. They are 2 well respected coaches, Millard was key in getting Dan Parks to sign and is well thought of in Australia and left a lasting impression at cardiff. I would certainly hope he will be retained

Gambas

fitz wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree.
I think his record since the rule changes came in speaks for itself.

On topic, I'd agree with GerM.
Elwood has done incredible work for Connacht, but fresh ideas could be just what they need to bring them forward after last seasons stagnation.

How is your clubs best league finish in a season where you have prioritised 6 HEC games considered stagnation? League placing is the ultimate yardstick.

jacothelad

CatFromHue wrote: »

He is struggling big time at the international stage, you know the highest level there is, but he is not inept. He has a coaching career and success that most modern coaches would love. He has his faults but he is not a Lievremont or Martin Johnson type coach.

I think you're over estimating the modern game too......Saracens are pretty successful with an awful style of rugby. Munsters was never as bad as theirs too.

He was lucky to coach the Ireland under age team when it had the likes of BOD, DOC Mincer etc in it.

He was lucky enough to coach Munster when the best players, Hayes, Wood, Horan, POC, DOC, Wally, Axel, ROG, Stringer, Halstead were in their absolute prime. Add in players like Jim Williams et al and a game that favoured up the jumper and line kicking, mauling rugby.

He was lucky to take over a great Ireland side from Eddie. One however that had gone stale. He is now responsible and he hasn't stepped up when the pressure of difficult decision making has exposed his lack of ideas now that kicking the ball away and strangling the receivers doesn't work.

How do you think Munster would do this season if Kidney was in charge? I sghudder to think. As for the Saracens comparison, then perhaps Mark McCall should be Ireland coach if we are overestimating the modern game. As you say, they at least show signs of life.

connemara man

http://www.connachtrugby.ie/2012100383021/eric-elwood-to-step-down

its official now

CIARAN_BOYLE

jacothelad wrote: »

He was lucky to coach the Ireland under age team when it had the likes of BOD, DOC Mincer etc in it.

In fairness those three lads were the only three to go onto have professional careers from his U19 WC panel which is a relatively small group

jacothelad

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

In fairness those three lads were the only three to go onto have professional careers from his U19 WC panel which is a relatively small group

Yes, some of the others were cracking under age players who would / might go all the way these days.

pappyodaniel

Ah that's a pity but you know there's more to life than rugby. I know he's not leaving just yet but for us rugby people I hope we see Elwood involved back in the game some time down the road.

I strongly believe Eddie O'Sullivan would be an ideal candidate but from reading his autobiography it seemed like he has history (through no fault of his own) and was never fully accepted in Connacht. But to be fair that's going back to the mid 90s when the game was pre-professional or just in it's infancy.

In my mind he could make a very strong input out West...but not quite just yet, lets see how Eric does this season.

ouncer

rugby is a business. since eric came to connacht we have seen the clan stand, HEC rugby (and in that yes we were lucky due to regulation changes) but eric elwood has been pivotal in all developments within connacht due to the respect he is held with by his peers. to compare him to michael bradley is a joke. to think o'sullivan/kidney would be a replacement is an insult to what eric has achieved. look at what connacht is now as compared to what it was when bradley left both on and off the field

[Jackass]

Connachts Curse. Finally get a good coach and making real progress and he resigns (his reasons are more than fair enough - he's been at Connacht for 16+ years)

Hope whoever replaces him can continue the upward spiral of progress...

porterbelly

[Jackass] wrote: »

Connachts Curse. Finally get a good coach and making real progress and he resigns (his reasons are more than fair enough - he's been at Connacht for 16+ years)

Hope whoever replaces him can continue the upward spiral of progress...

Something like 25 years between playing and coaching

CatFromHue

jacothelad wrote: »

How do you think Munster would do this season if Kidney was in charge? I sghudder to think. As for the Saracens comparison, then perhaps Mark McCall should be Ireland coach if we are overestimating the modern game. As you say, they at least show signs of life.

I probably shouldn't have made the Saracens link as it's thrown us off topic. I was also trying to highlight that Munster didn't play as poor a style as they did.

There's been a few responses to my post, all fair enough, but I just think we're getting a bit of revisionism here about what Kidney has done. There really isn't anyone who is that lucky to have had the success he's had at club level. I just don't think it's possible. Maybe he sold his soul to the Devil for it but I don't think the Devil is a rugby fan :pac:

The Munster job and the Connacht job are two very different things for a start. What Connacht need is an experienced coach who has managed in the Rabo (or any club level) and had success there before. Whether that's Kidney or not is irrelevant but to rule Kidney out as he's struggling with Ireland and ignore his past club success is wrong to me. He did well with Munster in both stints and helped Leinster improve in his stint there.

It's very easy to say he doesn't give young players a shot as he hasn't done a huge amount of that with Ireland. With Munster though he gave TOL, Dowling, Barry Murphy, Dennis Hurley etc all a good run in big games for example. Hell even ROG, Stringer, POC, and DOC were young players he gave gametime too back in the day. We may say now looking back that it was obvious that these players would be major players but when they came on the scene first off all had serious competition.

totallegend

ouncer wrote: »

rugby is a business. since eric came to connacht we have seen the clan stand, HEC rugby (and in that yes we were lucky due to regulation changes) but eric elwood has been pivotal in all developments within connacht due to the respect he is held with by his peers. to compare him to michael bradley is a joke. to think o'sullivan/kidney would be a replacement is an insult to what eric has achieved. look at what connacht is now as compared to what it was when bradley left both on and off the field

Don't agree here at all.

Rugby is a business, but that's what a club has a CEO for. The head coach's job begins and ends with rugby itself. If he's trying to build a new stadium or sell tickets, then he's taking his eye off where it should be.

In pure rugby terms, I'm not sure if Bradley was that much worse than Elwood? Maybe the Connacht fans are on a high after the win last Friday, but had Elwood resigned after losing 14 games in a row last season, would there have been the same outpouring of support? There's lots of talk about HEC qualification, but Connacht have Joe Schmidt to thank for that, not Eric Elwood.

If Eddie O'Sullivan puts his name forward, they should take the hand off him.

fitz

CatFromHue wrote: »

I probably shouldn't have made the Saracens link as it's thrown us off topic. I was also trying to highlight that Munster didn't play as poor a style as they did.

There's been a few responses to my post, all fair enough, but I just think we're getting a bit of revisionism here about what Kidney has done. There really isn't anyone who is that lucky to have had the success he's had at club level. I just don't think it's possible. Maybe he sold his soul to the Devil for it but I don't think the Devil is a rugby fan :pac:

The Munster job and the Connacht job are two very different things for a start. What Connacht need is an experienced coach who has managed in the Rabo (or any club level) and had success there before. Whether that's Kidney or not is irrelevant but to rule Kidney out as he's struggling with Ireland and ignore his past club success is wrong to me. He did well with Munster in both stints and helped Leinster improve in his stint there.

It's very easy to say he doesn't give young players a shot as he hasn't done a huge amount of that with Ireland. With Munster though he gave TOL, Dowling, Barry Murphy, Dennis Hurley etc all a good run in big games for example. Hell even ROG, Stringer, POC, and DOC were young players he gave gametime too back in the day. We may say now looking back that it was obvious that these players would be major players but when they came on the scene first off all had serious competition.

I think you're missing the point a bit here.
Personally, I'm not ignoring Kidney's previous achievements, he was a great coach for Munster back in the day, and is his success during that era is not debatable.

However.

Success in the past does not mean success now and in the future.
The game has moved on, and Kidney has shown repeatedly that he can't cope with how it is now played.

A person's track record should be judged in the context of their ability to the job as it currently is, not on what the job was like 5 years ago. In that regard, Kidney's track record is appalling.

Connacht need a coach who can bring them forward. Kidney would bring them backwards.

CatFromHue

fitz wrote: »

I think you're missing the point a bit here.
Personally, I'm not ignoring Kidney's previous achievements, he was a great coach for Munster back in the day, and is his success during that era is not debatable.

However.

Success in the past does not mean success now and in the future.
The game has moved on, and Kidney has shown repeatedly that he can't cope with how it is now played.

A person's track record should be judged in the context of their ability to the job as it currently is, not on what the job was like 5 years ago. In that regard, Kidney's track record is appalling.

Connacht need a coach who can bring them forward. Kidney would bring them backwards.

How would you feel about Eddie O Sullivan getting the job so?

The knives were out for him before he left his job with Ireland and he's been away from top class rugby since. He's effectively been unemployed at the high end of rugby since he left Ireland.

I personally think he is a good coach and would also be good for Connacht I'm just curious to see if your criteria would be similar for Eddie as it would be for Kidney.

The reason I'm defending Kidney here is that I think people are judging his whole career on the last season or two.