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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    pauldla wrote: »
    Not a little harsh, perhaps...?
    Given jank's history of posting things like that -- sorry, nope.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    robindch wrote: »
    Given jank's history of posting things like that -- sorry, nope.

    If anything, you were being charitable.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Cabaal wrote: »
    I really got to say this type of mindset is pretty damn insulting to this whole situation...

    ...
    But Jank, go right ahead, try make light of the situation this country is in. Sure its just people ranting
    :rolleyes:

    I am not making light of any situation. I was responding directly to a good point made by Gordon regarding peoples opinions being formed by their own personal experiences and in a wider context their environment. I just offered my 2 cents and it was not meant to be a sly dig at anyone or anything. Seriously, you guys need to calm down a bit and take people at their word.

    I think my comment on the nature of Irish people is fairly accurate. This is a serious issue of course but unfortunately we do not do 'serious' very well. Hence the general reaction we see now. I wish it was not the case, I wish we were a more serious people but ...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    robindch wrote: »
    If I wasn't aware of your history of posting a continuous stream of "ah, yer all just bloody begrudgers" comments, I'd be quite annoyed at this kind of trivializing note too.

    Again, I am not trivialising anything, I was responding directly to a good point made by Gordon. Do I need to have some paragraph stating my feelings regarding this topic in every single post where I am calling for the truth to come out of the mother and baby homes? Do I need to say this every. single. time. I. post. over. and. over. So that I do not have someone jumping down my throat for instating things I am not insinuating?

    robindch wrote: »
    As it is, well, Cabaal's rolling eyes kind of sum up my feelings - can't you post anything worth reading? Can't you change your tune for just one topic?

    Post anything? How about my own personal experience in this very thread where I revealed that I was born in a mother and baby home (where I was later mocked for, great modding there!). Why do you take such joy in belittling someone else's opinion?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    So that I do not have someone jumping down my throat for instating things I am not insinuating?
    In this post, you insinuated that "most people on this forum" "perpetuate a certain narrative" ("negative"), possibly "judgmental, insecure and insincere" and that, as a nation, we're the "Brazil in World Cups at giving out". In one form or another, you've said the same thing time and time again - a comment free of any evidence which tars most or all people here in the forum and the entire country too, not only with an unpleasant negativity but also with being a pack of disconsolate begrudgers for the sake of disconsolate begrudgery.

    And I'm tired of being tarred in this fashion, as others seem to be too. Why can't you post without making nasty comments about your fellow posters and without making equally nasty comments about the country?
    jank wrote: »
    How about my own personal experience in this very thread where I revealed that I was born in a mother and baby home (where I was later mocked for, great modding there!).
    A post which made a positive contribution and which fifteen thanks, including one from me.

    You were not "mocked" that I can immediately see, though I did pick you up on your un-evidinced comment that "Today people don't want to hear any of the good news" - more of the same "yer all just begrudgers" posting tone which is what I am specifically asking you to stop - this continuous refrain adds nothing to your posts and does nothing but annoy people.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    robindch wrote: »

    In this post, you insinuated that "most people on this forum" "perpetuate a certain narrative" ("negative"), possibly "judgmental, insecure and insincere" and that, as a nation, we're the "Brazil in World Cups at giving out".

    That is some nice editing in fairness which of course reading like that presents a certain agenda from my part. However, you have to read the entire post to get context. For example I did not say that "Most people on this forum, perpetuate a certain negative attitude..."

    What I did say was "Most people on this forum are Irish and have a certain mindset (not wholly positive) when it comes to Ireland, its history, society and culture. It then helps perpetuate a certain narrative about the country that tends to feed into a negative feedback loop about the place"

    Some what different to what you posted above. At least quote me in full if you want to argue points I made, not snippets that you then edit into sentences to present a different picture of what I actually said.
    robindch wrote: »
    In one form or another, you've said the same thing time and time again - a comment free of any evidence which tars most or all people here in the forum and the entire country too, not only with an unpleasant negativity but also with being a pack of disconsolate begrudgers for the sake of disconsolate begrudgery.

    You mentioned the term begrudery a few times, yet when did I ever use that word on this forum? Again if you are going to accuse me of something at least quote me on things I actually said.
    robindch wrote: »
    And I'm tired of being tarred in this fashion, as others seem to be too. Why can't you post without making nasty comments about your fellow posters and without making equally nasty comments about the country?

    I am not directing those comment to anyone in particular, it was a general comment about Irish society which of course people are free to disagree with but I feel that you are using ad-hominon attacks against me rather than refuting the key points I am making.


    robindch wrote: »
    A post which made a positive contribution and which fifteen thanks, including one from me.

    You were not "mocked" that I can immediately see, though I did pick you up on your un-evidinced comment that "Today people don't want to hear any of the good news" - more of the same "yer all just begrudgers" posting tone which is what I am specifically asking you to stop - this continuous refrain adds nothing to your posts and does nothing but annoy people.

    Well a poster did mock me for being lucky not to be raped, a comment you had no issue with but I make a general comment on Irish society, well can't have that now can we.

    Regarding the "Hearing the good news.." comment I did clarify this with this post.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90701130&postcount=984

    A post you thanked and presumably accepted and moved on. So again, clearly I do write posts worth reading, only when I write something you disagree with you come out all guns blazing with statements like "can't you post anything worth reading?" That is pretty strong language which I feel makes any contribution I make unwanted and your continuous paternal judgement on my posts is in my opinion borderline bullying.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    You mentioned the term begrudery a few times, yet when did I ever use that word on this forum?
    I'm really at a loss to explain this in any more precise detail, so let me be as clear as I can.

    I, and so far as I can see, most other posters here, are tired of you making grand, un-evidinced sweeping statements in which you demean the motives of people who are upset about one issue or another. Most, though not all, of your posts also tend to be content free. When you post something worth reading, as you did about your experiences in the M+B home, you can post with the best of the forum posters, for which I thank you.

    However, if you can't stop the continual fist-waving that occupies most of the rest of your posts -- an activity which I interpret as borderline trolling -- then I, or one or other of the moderators, will take action against you to stop it. You have been warned about this repeatedly in the past, not so far as I recall by a string of private messages, but also by virtue of the collection of 35 cards that you've picked up here in A+A and elsewhere for similar content-vacuity.

    If you feel that this is unfair, then please take the issue to the feedback forum where your complaint will be reviewed by senior site administrators.

    You can consider this a formal warning of an impending forum ban if your posting style does not improve.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,733 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Just wondering, how is the exchange (between jank and others) that was moved here today, forum feedback? Would it not have been better that there was either an on-thread warning or PM exchange?

    I personally don't think that singling out individual posters (even if they have dug their own hole) in this thread is the way to do things.

    Then again, maybe I'm just being a grump due to this fecking heat >.<

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    SW wrote: »
    Just wondering, how is the exchange (between jank and others) that was moved here today, forum feedback? Would it not have been better that there was either an on-thread warning or PM exchange?
    Might be the alchohol talking but I think we need a sniping super-thread. Move all they hissy posts from all over in there. Put manners on the whole lot of ye so it would.
    :pac:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    robindch wrote: »
    I'm really at a loss to explain this in any more precise detail, so let me be as clear as I can.

    You have mentioned many times where I have made sweeping statements about other posters here where I have called them begrudgers, blah, blah, blah.., yet have never as far as I can see used that specific term or another terms like it. I think it is fair to ask why are you implying that I use this term when in fact I have not.
    robindch wrote: »
    I, and so far as I can see, most other posters here, are tired of you making grand, un-evidinced sweeping statements in which you demean the motives of people who are upset about one issue or another.

    Where am I demeaning the motives of people in that reply to Gordon?? :confused: It was a general observation I made regarding Irish people, not designed to be some side dig at any group or people in particular. You do know that I am also Irish? If there is problem or a disagreement with the points I made then by all means refute them but if you think I have some agenda then you are seeing ghosts I am afraid.
    robindch wrote: »
    Most, though not all, of your posts also tend to be content free. When you post something worth reading, as you did about your experiences in the M+B home, you can post with the best of the forum posters, for which I thank you.

    Yes, so clearly I do post things worth reading so why did you say "can't you post anything worth reading? Can't you change your tune for just one topic?"
    when clearly its not the case.
    robindch wrote: »
    You can consider this a formal warning of an impending forum ban if your posting style does not improve.

    What was wrong with that post I replied to Gordon and how did that reflect my style? It was actually just an honest opinion and I did not have any secret ax to grind at all.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    You have mentioned many times where I have made sweeping statements about other posters here where I have called them begrudgers, blah, blah, blah.., yet have never as far as I can see used that specific term or another terms like it. I think it is fair to ask why are you implying that I use this term when in fact I have not.

    In description of tone and intent its all too accurate...."fist waving" also works. "permanently angry" too. A very small sample...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90567063&postcount=243

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90485937&postcount=96

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89572479&postcount=100

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88862600&postcount=1449

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87599681&postcount=110

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87912393&postcount=42

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88721785&postcount=1230

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88894192&postcount=1267

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88759470&postcount=593

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88896113&postcount=17

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89312465&postcount=77


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89572664&postcount=103

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89572620&postcount=175

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90484685&postcount=86

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90540709&postcount=193

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90679354&postcount=561


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Clearly have time on your hands Nodin to carry out such a 'meticulous' search, so I am left wondering why you have to chime in on this conversation.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    You have mentioned many times where I have made sweeping statements about other posters [...]
    Nodin has provided a small sample of your angry output. There are many more examples which you can find by checking back through the 45 cards and bans you've received over the last six or so years, from 16 or so moderators other than me. If you still can't accept that you're obstreperous, then all I can do is suggest you contact a friend or some family and show them some of this output and ask them to comment.

    Regardless, you have received your final moderator warning and you will receive a week's ban for your next intemperate, fist-waving, nose-thumbing or obnoxious post. If you are unhappy with this warning, then please open a thread on the feedback forum.

    This topic is now closed in A+A.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    jank wrote: »
    Clearly have time on your hands Nodin to carry out such a 'meticulous' search, so I am left wondering why you have to chime in on this conversation.

    Errrr this is a public thread in a public forum, not really your place to tell people they can't post in it


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    He proved the point Rob was making and now your response just adds grist to the mill. We call what he did there 'gathering evidence'.

    Petards and hoisting spring to mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Jank will be banned for being a plank in far too many posts.

    Moderators are tolerant with bile directed at various ideologies and groups but not at posters - and not soapbox bile. Though even at all these the forum is lenient.

    If you want start a thread bashing extreme left nutters and make it fun. (Within reason!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Some of Jank's posts are good, unfortunately others aren't. There's a line and he's crossed it several times in my opinion. Regardless of my general contributions to boards.ie if I'm a plank too often then there's going to be conseqences. Regardless of the majority quality of an individuals posts if 1% of their posts are over line then on this site there will generally be action taken.

    Turtwig's definition of plank:
    Repeatedly dragging up vague contrarian positions in unnecessary thread topics that derails thread, making vague swipes at members of the forum that often seem inflammatory and finally, most pertinently, insulting posters mental and physical acuity and finally whataboutery.

    Contrarians are about the most useful posters you can have in any discussion forum. This is why Jank was tolerated, and still is being, tolerated for so long. The problem there is that too often his posts are nothing other than vacuous contrarians or personal snipes, derails, potential inflammation. Anyone can contradict stuff, that's the easiest thing in the world to do. But there's an etiquette to be expected. Substantiate the point and for the love of gods making the point in a somewhat relevant topic and tone.

    I've infracted at least three posters for insulting dissent 'right wing', I guess you could call them those, opinions. Banned two, not sure if it was the same person or a different person each time. But I recall that. In fact, one rather, I guess, funny? story is that two posters on this forum I've been reluctant to action on the Christianity forum for the simple reason that they might feel it's an existing bias brought forward from this forum. So I had to ask benny to look after them. He'd already run into trouble with one of them too. So, by right we should have played rock paper scissors lizard spock but we didn't. :o


    Go ahead, start the thread bashing extremist left wingers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Example of a contrarian post:
    You're wrong Permabear.

    What about your own posting style that's no saint either. Just kicking your toys out of the pram when things you don't go the way you want them to.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    You're so in trouble if people on mobile sites don't see that subject heading :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    I thought they was shuttin that thing down?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Turtwig wrote: »
    I thought they was shuttin that thing down?

    I'll shut YOU down!

    No, their being nice and doing a hybrid eventually
    Anyway, continue! Just letting you know posters miss those subject lines sometimes


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I'll shut YOU down!

    No, their being nice and doing a hybrid eventually
    Anyway, continue! Just letting you know posters miss those subject lines sometimes

    Go ahead and try!

    Oh awesome, I really ought to try reading threads again. This skimming lark is clearly missing some important stuff.

    Yeah, thanks very much, no way I'd have known that, edited it, can only imagine Perma's expression if he read that on mobile? :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Also folks, what the fck is it with gay marriage creeping into every thread topic? Is this the gay agenda at work? :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    There is the inevitable fact that mods make mistakes. We're human and have biases. I don't agree with your criticism of Rob. Considering how adamant and lenient is Rob against enforcing bans on posters. Can't name specific names but Rob is largely the reason that lefties and righties from both sides stick around for so long. To drag Jank up again. Rob's the mod who's been the most lenient with him. Used your own reasoning too. [Jank does make some very good posts. So let's put up with him as long as possible.]

    One of the issues with this forum is that the demographic is largely lefty economically and lefty socially. This means that as a general rule the majority of the reported posts will be by left orientated posters. The downside to this is the minority sides will be drowned out. As moderators we need to take this bias into account but it's not always going to be practical - we can't read entire threads and every so often the 'trigger' for inflammatory spats is going to be missed. There is always the fundamental problem of when reports warrants action then action must be taken. If a reported post warrants action then action will be taken, and rightly so. In a forum dominated by lefty there's going to be an apparent moderator bias of against righty's because that's where the majority of reported posts will likely lie. Even more so, when many posters don't bother reporting posts. Minority opinions on any thread should be biased towards by the moderator. By this I mean the moderator shows extra leniency and patience with the minority side. The reason being is that the majority of reported posts will be by people biased against the minority whereas the minority will have fewer reported fewer posts - if any at all . And, it is so easy to miss the 'trigger' post that ignites a discussion into a tomato splat fest.
    That's in a nutshell the spirit of how moderation in A&A works.

    I wrote a more detailed post about that somewhere but I'm too lazy to type it out again. :o So I mostly just cut up a similar one that was a nutshell of a previous one. :o Christ! I is lazy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    No, it usually means somebody with multiple bans from multiple forums by multiple mods. If you're going to back a horse, you should know its form.
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    There is no evidence of that. There is however a large body of evidence for what I refer to above.


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    It's a conspiracy, and you're being persecuted?

    Robindch wrote:
    Anyhow, the point of my feedback here is not about jank specifically. It's
    about robindch using this forum to bash conservatives or libertarians,
    effectively instating progressive leftism as the only acceptable political
    ideology on A&A, and using his position as a moderator to threaten and
    silence those who don't toe his ideological line.

    I'd say it is.
    Robindch wrote:
    And yet this poster is being threatened with a ban if this kind of "angry output" continues.

    .

    You realise he's already had a site ban for behaviour here and elsewhere? Are the admins in on it too?


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Nodin wrote: »
    You realise he's already had a site ban for behaviour here and elsewhere? Are the admins in on it too?

    its all a big conspiracy man! :pac:
    h73F2EACE


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Jank will be banned for being a plank in far too many posts.


    Dades has already said jank should have a new leaf, that rch was out of line in some comments, and that regulars should start reading his posts away from his history in A&A

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90824067&postcount=13

    So maybe the "he will be banned" stuff is a bit unfair


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