Festivities

Frank Boggins

I have pointed out to my girlfriend after a long thought process that I no longer want to take part in things like Christmas , Birthdays, Valentines day.............. and every standard day that you are expected to take part in a commercial and personal way.



Its not that I'm greedy or anything I just don't wanna be part of societies expected format.



This isn't really going down well with her and to be honest its something I was gonna tell my parents and brother and sisters at the weekend.

yermandan

Did you consider her feelings about it? It sounds like something you probably should discuss together and agree on, as opposed to you just announcing it to her.

That will defo be a deal-breaker for alot of people.

Best of luck

Ickle Magoo

I'm not surprised it's not going down well with her - while I'd be with you on the valentines day stuff, birthday and winter festivals have been around for aeons so it's sounds a bit of a lame cop-out to suddenly declare you won't be partaking because of the society you currently live in...

Like anything in a relationship, you need to sit down and come up with a decent/rational explanation why you've suddenly moved the goal-posts of expectation and see if they are prepared to accept that for their relationship.

While protesting against whatever personal days that commercialism piggy-backs off is all very well, I think you'll probably also need to accept that the majority of people will find such a move quite odd and having little effect on commercialism, rather just you refusing to get your nearest and dearest presents.

Best of luck.

Frank Boggins

Its hardly a cop out I just think that when your identity is defined by society you are expected not to resist.

I do like spending time with family and I enjoy giving gifts cause it makes people happy.

I just dont wanna be held down by "oh its mothers day" cause theres adds on the Telly and then this is the day every sheep in the country makes the florist rich.

WhimSock

These days aren't about giving people presents. They are about spending time with friends and family. If you were to sit at home in a huff with your arms folded to show how non confirmist you are, you are only missing out on all the fun and coming across as anti-social.

Frank Boggins

yeah I agree but im saying if you class playing operation with your Nanny as fun, how come you only do it as Christmas.

If I wanted to hang out with family I only see at christmas why wouldnt I make the effort other times of the year.

WhimSock

Nothing's stopping you from seeing them at any other time. Christmas and birthdays etc are times when gatherings can be planned on a larger scale. People book time off work, make travel arrangements to be together.

Ickle Magoo

Frank Boggins wrote: »

Its hardly a cop out I just think that when your identity is defined by society you are expected not to resist.

I do like spending time with family and I enjoy giving gifts cause it makes people happy.

I just dont wanna be held down by "oh its mothers day" cause theres adds on the Telly and then this is the day every sheep in the country makes the florist rich.

It's still not logical - and still sounds more than a little teenage-angsty. Current society has borrowed name giving celebrations and winter festivities from previous societies going back thousands of years.

There are lots of ways of making a day with someone special, or showing you think their birthday or spending christmas with them is special without making florists rich - it sounds to me more like begrudgery and lack of imagination than a rational, well thought-out action to take...and I suspect your girlfriend and family will think likewise.

Your choice tho - you posted for advice, I'm giving it to you...you'll need to come up with a better/more thought out/more rational reason for taking it upon yourself to shift the goal-posts than you've posted here if you want to get them on-side and not look like you are just being stroppy/begrudging.

All the best. :cool:

Frank Boggins

But why as a person can you not ask to be excluded from taking part without being told your being awkward.

I just dont want to be part of any of the nonsense.

Frank Boggins

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It's still not logical - and still sounds more than a little teenage-angsty. Current society has borrowed name giving celebrations and winter festivities from previous societies going back thousands of years.

There are lots of ways of making a day with someone special, or showing you think their birthday or spending christmas with them is special without making florists rich - it sounds to me more like begrudgery and lack of imagination than a rational, well thought-out action to take...and I suspect your girlfriend and family will think likewise.

Your choice tho - you posted for advice, I'm giving it to you...you'll need to come up with a better/more thought out/more rational reason for taking it upon yourself to shift the goal-posts than you've posted here if you want to get them on-side and not look like you are just being stroppy/begrudging.

All the best. :cool:

How about if I say that I have seen the light and I am joining a religion that does not permit it or deals on a higher level were I dont have to be a sheep.

P. Breathnach

It looks to me as if you have not thought enough about which battles to fight.

Some events are commercially-driven (pretty well commercially-created): things like Mother's Day. I'd love to see them eliminated from the calendar, but in taking a personal stance I would think it wise to explain my reasons in a sympathetic way to people who do not yet see things as I do.

Other events have been ramped up by commercial interests - traditional festivals like Easter and Hallowe'en. But their origins reflect things that were important to earlier generations, the celebration of spring and the celebration of the harvest. It seems to me a bit curmudgeonly to turn your back on all of that. I would support an argument for avoiding some of the crass commercialisation that has been added on in recent times.

But birthdays, anniversaries, and the like? Come on, they are personal.

I think yermandan makes a fair point: it's not really good to take a position and announce it.

WhimSock

Because you are essentially saying 'no, I don't want to spend any time with my friends and family'
Forget the religious aspect of it, that's not what is important here.

tinkerbell

OP, what is your problem? Saying you no longer want to buy your loved ones a birthday gift or your girlfriend an anniversary gift or any of your family a christmas present is a cop-out tbh and there has to be some other underlying reason here. Do you actually genuinely not want to buy your girlfriend a birthday gift (however small it is) ever again? If so, I really think that is insulting. It doesn't have to be an expensive gift like an iPad or something that costs the earth, it could be something small like a book she wants to get, a meal in her fav restaurant, or whatever.

Holidays like Valentine's Day, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Easter, Halloween, etc. and all those other holidays which have turned into total money-markets I would agree with but deciding you don't want to be part of birthdays, christmas, etc. it will portray the notion that you are a Scrooge. Blaming "commercialism" really can only go so far as the whole V-Day, Easter, etc. thing but dumping birthdays, anniversaries and christmas into the same pot is just implying that you are tight with your money and don't want to spend your money on anybody, and that is how you family and loved ones will view it.

And your argument on Mother's Day and florists is neither here nor there. There are plenty of us who put better value on say cooking a nice meal for your mother on Mother's Day or spending time with her or whatever that doesn't involve going to the florist and buying a standard bouquet which has no thought or imagination gone into it.

Frank Boggins

I agree with you that if you wanna be a part of this you can.

I am saying that I dont wanna be and why cant I just go about my day without being expected to be part of traditions I dont want to.

Its 365 days from the day you were born for the 26th time heres an ipod . its just stupid.

Ickle Magoo

You can very much go about your day refusing to partake in anything you wish...

What you won't be able to do is escape the consequences of doing that. We don't live in a vacuum. When you refuse to compromise, refuse to partake in events other people enjoy and want you to be a part of, there will be consequences to that - not least how that kind of behaviour or calling things other people treasure "stupid" comes across to others.

You either have to accept those consequences, or learn to compromise/accept if you share your life with other people, what they want is/are as important as those you want.

Taltos

As much as you want them to respect your views you have to respect theirs.

It is not important to you at all.
It is very important to them.

Now you have a choice.
a) Become a hermit and cut off all contact with others
b) Bite the bullet and try to get enjoyment from their enjoyment.
c) Every year become an insufferable pain to be around until sometime in the future when you are sitting alone in a cold room on your birthday or someone elses birthday you wonder why life is so cruel to you...

Personally I would choose the 2nd option here - getting pleasure from watching someone have fun is a good way to see the day. Instead of focusing on the now material aspects remind yourself that for this one day or whatever they are able to let the inner child out again.

Do you really want to be the bloke that spoils that for them?
Look you have informed them of your wishes - if they choose to still try to spoil you then remind yourself that they are doing this because they care.
Finally maybe coming up to these events where it is your birthday you could drop a reminder and maybe ask to just a few of you go out for a meal or a drink but that you would prefer there to be no fuss otherwise.

meeeeh

Frank Boggins wrote: »

I agree with you that if you wanna be a part of this you can.

I am saying that I dont wanna be and why cant I just go about my day without being expected to be part of traditions I dont want to.

Its 365 days from the day you were born for the 26th time heres an ipod . its just stupid.

Because it is not just about you. You are part of a society (with all the rituals, dress codes, ceremonies), part of different family and friends networks and a lot of those celebrations are making other people happy.

ManOfMystery

OP, I'd be interesting in hearing your thought process on this and why you've suddenly turned against these festivities.

Assuming you're in a fairly 'normal' setup where you get on with the vast majority of family and friends, then Christmas/Birthdays/etc should be times of fun and happiness and the chance to spend some decent time together.

So I have to assume that your reasoning for this is purely down to being anti-commercial. In which case you can still celebrate these events with your family and friends, but without buying into it - don't decorate your own place, don't buy presents (make them, or do things for people which don't involve massive £££), etc.

If it's not a case of just seeing it as a waste of money, then I'd have to ask exactly why you don't want to have a few days a year where you can just take a break from the norm of 9-5 work, and enjoy some food, drink and good company?

Lorna123

I sort of agree with the OP that present giving has seen its day. Most people don't get what they would like to get as presents anyway and there is an awful lot of money wasted on them. It is very hard to get someone a present that they really like. As far as Christmas and birthdays go I would be all on for celebrating by buying someone a meal out, but buying presents for one another is just a money making racket encouraged by advertising to get the shopkeepers rich by making you feel guilty if you don't do it. If I want to give someone a present I would prefer to do it when I decide and not when I am told to do it.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, you don't want to "buy into" the money racket of these days. That is completely fair and I think many other people are heading in that direction these days. With less emphasis on the price of the gift and more emphasis on the gift itself, be that time together, a cheap but well thought out gift, shared meal etc..

But you mentioned if playing Operation with your granny is so much fun why wouldn't you do it other times... so does that mean that you are happy at random times during the year to treat your gf, or your parents etc to something nice, 'just because' but don't want to be forced to do it on a specific day? Or do you just not want to give gifts ever?

I think people would be ok with you opting out of Christmas, and days like that if you show your appreciation and love of the person at other times during the year.

Edit: But if you're happy to give gifts at random times throughout the year, I find it hard to understand why you wouldn't give a Christmas or birthday gift! (I agree with all other makey-up days being a just that, by the way!)

Frank Boggins

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OP, you don't want to "buy into" the money racket of these days. That is completely fair and I think many other people are heading in that direction these days. With less emphasis on the price of the gift and more emphasis on the gift itself, be that time together, a cheap but well thought out gift, shared meal etc..

But you mentioned if playing Operation with your granny is so much fun why wouldn't you do it other times... so does that mean that you are happy at random times during the year to treat your gf, or your parents etc to something nice, 'just because' but don't want to be forced to do it on a specific day? Or do you just not want to give gifts ever?

I think people would be ok with you opting out of Christmas, and days like that if you show your appreciation and love of the person at other times during the year.

Edit: But if you're happy to give gifts at random times throughout the year, I find it hard to understand why you wouldn't give a Christmas or birthday gift! (I agree with all other makey-up days being a just that, by the way!)

Yes I do agree with being nice and giving gifts.

If I saw a phone , cd , weekend away I could afford I would gladly buy it and enjoy the surprise it created.

I am just against the structure we are expected to take part in and I am saying we dont have to.

I love spending time with friends family and all that but dont think we should have to do it when told.

kiffer

OP, just toe the line like everyone else.
I hate Christmas, it's horribly stressful and distressing time.
Just toe the line and fake a smile, many other people are trying to hold it together for the sake of the others that seem to have a good time. The rest don't care that you don't enjoy it and in fact your lack of enjoyment ruins it for them which is whats most important.

Birthdays are a little different, and while I have avoided celebrating my own birthday for the last decade or so, and would have done so even earlier if my family hadn't insisted on it, wishing someone a happy birthday or going to a little meal or something is not too bad.

Gift giving can be stressful too, especially when it's non spontaneous like at Christmas and Birthdays.
Else where in the year, seeing something a friend or loved on might like/has mentioned looking for or whatever and getting it for them is fine... but finding something for Xmas or birthday is hellish.
Receiving gifts is very stressful to, especially from people you didnt expect one from and now you've only 3 days to find them something that isn't complete dross.

That said not saying happy birthday is criminal.
If people want to celebrate their birthday you should take the excuse for a party and just ignore the gift giving part.

Kevcol

It's like this OP. You say you want to go about your normal routine during these occasions. It's practically impossible to do at Christmas. Are you going to sit in your room while everyone else opens presents downstairs. And then at dinner time are you going to sit there pretending that it's no different to every other day and sulk if others are trying to enjoy the Christmas cheer. As others have said, by no means do you have to buy into the commercialism that's involved with certain occasions but I think you're making life more difficult for yourself if you point blank refuse to join in in some celebration with everyone else around you.

Neyite

Op, if you want to avoid the commercialism of the likes of Christmas, why not suggest a kris kringle with an upper limit - say €50. Names into a hat and get one gift to give and recieve. I know a lot of families that do this and it really makes the day about family, not gifts.

While I think its perfectly fine that you if you are a mother or father, insist you dont want a gift to commemerate it, I dont think its very nice that you dont acknowledge your parent on just one day a year. Same for birthdays - if you dont want to recieve a gift, grand - tell people you dont, but dont gladly receive gifts for your special day then turn around and fail to reciprocate their generosity.

You dont have to give gifts - on mothers day/valentines day, what is wrong with insisting she put her feet up and you cook the dinner instead? Or tackle some DIY that they want done.

But I'm getting from your post that you dont want to even admit that occasions like christmas/valentines/birthdays/anniversarys exist? So maybe my suggestions are useless to you?

I'm also curious as to where you stand on having Christmas/St. Stephens day off since it lands on a Tues/Wed this year since you dont acknowledge Christmas would you go into work as normal those days?

thefeatheredcat

Everyone wants to live life they want to, but other people have slightly different values and to get along with others there's give and take and compromise.

Dismissing even commercial events like Christmas/Valentines/Birthdays and other personal and meaningful events like Anniversaries and personal milestones as nonsense and stupid can be hurtful to others, especially if you are not willing to share in the happiness of the occasion with the person celebrating them their way, which might be of a total different set of values from yourself.

I hope you didn't put it to your girlfriend stating that they are stupid and nonsense occasions and are able to provide a rational she can understand.

What people value more is the time spent, and the sharing of an event with them not the money and not necessarily the effort either. In an ideal world elderly relatives we would all go and see every day and spend time with and all go out of our way to make homeless and those most marginalised feel visible and human by being kind, considerate and compassionate every day to them, not just coming up to Christmas or whatever. That should be the expectation within society but it just doesn't work like that. You can as an individual choose to be like that to show compassion, consideration and kindness to others on an every day basis, that actually would be how we would live if society isn't what it is imo.

It's one thing going into a relationship knowing that events like Christmas/Valentines/Mother Fathers Days and anniversaries or birthdays and other occasions that people want to include others in their happiness and share it with are not going to be part of it....but your partner needs to share in those values and have there be a trade off of that one day as per the ad be celebrated on an every day basis and have the same expectations as you.

Many people would be open to not participating in the hype of say Valentines Day but other things like birthdays, anniversaries, or celebrating personal achievements and milestones beyond things like passing exams people might find hard to understand and may place different values on how it is celebrated.

It is a nice way of seeing something and surprising a loved one with something as a surprise however, that also creates an expectation, although it is without social pressure to conform, but that person could see that as something as a norm in a relationship and might expect that generally as part of the relationship or you might find that others aren't as equally considerate or prepared to show that in the same way which could lead to frustration.

I think it is only fair that in a relationship if your values/beliefs and expectations have changed, it is more of a sit down and talk about to find out if your partner is on the same page and wavelength and evaluate together considerately with values of both people involved if those match or clash. Being thrown it without a real basis for feeling that way would not only be hurtful out of the blue, but confusing and hurtful if your girlfriend values those things and is simply told by argument that they are stupid and nonsense.

I think that you would need to be very clear, more so than you have been in this thread, and most expressive in a way that people can relate and understand for it to be accepted that is now where you are and where you stand and your values. Simply saying celebrating an occasion as part of the sheep and criticising those who do as sheep might be taken badly even as mockery if it is dismissed as being stupid and nonsense if you cannot express what you feel beyond expensive gifts as and when the ads says so. In short be expressive about what your values are and what your feelings about these occasions are and have people see where you are coming from to build an argument.

jdsk2006

Frank Boggins wrote: »

How about if I say that I have seen the light and I am joining a religion that does not permit it or deals on a higher level were I dont have to be a sheep.

I was just about to ask was this something to do with religon. Each to their own is what I say..........what does it matter which flock of sheep you roam with.

jellygems

Frank Boggins wrote: »

How about if I say that I have seen the light and I am joining a religion that does not permit it or deals on a higher level were I dont have to be a sheep.

by celebrating your birthday or christmas ur a sheep , erm would u not channel the nrg your putting into 'oh this is to commerial for my liking' and go hiking in a mountain for charity or something

Taltos

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Taltos

Lorna123

Frank Boggins wrote: »

I have pointed out to my girlfriend after a long thought process that I no longer want to take part in things like Christmas , Birthdays, Valentines day.............. and every standard day that you are expected to take part in a commercial and personal way.



Its not that I'm greedy or anything I just don't wanna be part of societies expected format.



This isn't really going down well with her and to be honest its something I was gonna tell my parents and brother and sisters at the weekend.

Do you like celebrating these occasions but you just don't like being forced to give present? Is that it? That's how I feel. I hate having to look for a present for someone, now I would love to give someone a present that I knew they would appreciate, but people seem to have everything these days and nothing I could give them would please them. I would be like you OP and I would prefer to just celebrate the festivities but not be forced to give presents. To me that is just a money making racket that will never be let go because there is too much profit to be made from it.

decmanning

Why wouldnt you want to celebrate and remember the date of birth of your girlfriend? Why wouldnt you want to show your girlfriend on valentines day how much you love her? After all it is a day to celebrate the love of couples, i bet you go out and drink on paddys day and arthurs day, could they be considered "societies expected format"??

Batgurl

OP do you expect to keep your girlfriend?

By her reaction, I imagine she is not too happy about your decision. Which is totally within her rights. But she can dump you for it...I know I would.

If she turned around to you and said that she no longer believes in sex and has decided to abstain from it in future because she doesn't buy into the conformity of it all, then you would probably dump her...as is your right to.

Just realise that everyone has the right to their own decisions but they do not have the right to control the reaction to their decision.

Richy06

In life, when young, sometimes you fight battles and waste energy on things which, in hindsight, you will end up regretting that you ever even bothered in the first place.

This is one of those occasions.

I'm guessing you're pretty young and beginning to question things and not accept stuff at face value. Sure, most holidays have become industries in and of themselves and there is a tonne of money poured into advertising to us shi*e we don't need but which we must have. That doesn't mean you have to treat every one of those occasions as such. As opposed to lashing out so broadly, take a more considered approach to it.
There's been loads of good suggestions thus far - Kris Kringle for Christmas etc etc.
For something like Valentine's, discuss it with your girlfriend. Compromise. It doesn't have to leave a huge hole in your pocket.

There's ways and means around this without just stone facing the whole lot of it and isolating yourself in the long run. Which is exactly what will happen.
I used to feel the same, to a certain degree. I hated the crassness and the 'I WANT' attitude inherent with these holidays and celebrations. But I learned to kind of rail against them in my own way and I do things a little differently. The choice is yours as to how you participate and the extent to which you allow yourself to be influenced by the commercial entities that drive these holidays.

But we thrive on social contact. It helps us grow and stops us becoming bitter, sad, lonely individuals later on - which is exactly the road you're starting on if you approach it as you are. You can't just inform your girlfriend of your decision without discussing it with her, especially if you want to keep her. Same with the family.

If it's a case of money, though, and you just don't want to admit it....then cop on and buy yizzer bleedin' loved ones a card and a small, thoughtful gift!

I dunno if you've mentioned it, either OP, but what about you? Does the moratorium on gift giving extend to your family & loved ones giving you gifts on birthday/Christmas et al?

Frank Boggins

Richy06 we trive on social contact , we being?

Richy06

Human beings.

jellygems

Taltos wrote: »

jellygems - please have a read of our charter and site rules. Text speak is not welcome and can result in a ban if continued to be used.

Thanks
Taltos

by use of the letters nrg bit harsh

Esoteric_

Not wanting to buy into commercialism and being 'expected' to spend time with people you wouldn't normally spend time with is fair enough, but you sound like you're having a teenage tantrum to be honest, especially with your post about 'what if I said I was part of X religion?'

I don't like the commercialism of holidays, but I still buy my loved ones presents because I enjoy seeing the smile on their face. I don't buy flowers and chocolates, I put thought and effort into gifts that I know they do not expect but will love and appreciate. It's the thought that counts about the holidays, not the gift itself.

As for playing operation or whatever else with your granny and not doing it any other time of the year - that makes you sound really selfish actually. I play cards with my grandmother and visit her for dinner over Christmas. I don't particularly enjoy it because I don't like hearing her bitch about my extended family, and I hate card games, but it brings her joy so I do it. I don't just do it at Christmas, though. I do it at least once a fortnight because I know that a few hours out of my day, while causing me some boredom, brightens up her day and makes her extremely happy.

Instead of focusing on money, gifts and things you don't like, why not focus on the fact that by making an effort (not necessarily spending money), you are making people close to you happy. Surely making your loved ones know that they're appreciated and loved is a good thing?

If you don't want to buy Christmas gifts, make them. My best friend has an extremely strange body shape because of her height (she's 4'6) and weight, and finds it difficult to find flattering clothes that are her style. So, when it comes to Christmas, her birthday or just whenever the hell I feel like it, I grab out my sewing machine, buy some fabric (fabric shops are not like flower shops, they will not be booming and making a fortune at Christmas!) and make her a nice top. Costs me about a fiver in material and a few hours of my time, but it shows her just how much I love and appreciate her because I put a lot of thought into what she would like and appreciate.

It's not about money. It's about respect and showing your love and care to people.

If my boyfriend told me that he didn't want to ever buy me a gift again, I'd accept it. However, I'd only accept it on the basis that he either made or did something to show that he appreciated me because while money means very little to me when it comes to gifts, I'd sure as hell be annoyed if somebody close to me chose not to even acknowledge me on a day such as my birthday, especially if I go to an effort to make them happy on their birthday.

I'd really re-think what you're doing and how you're going about things, if I were you. Not liking commercialism and expectations is one thing, acting selfish around the people you love is another thing all together.

LegacyUser

I think I felt the same way as the OP for years about stuff like this, all pomp and social convention, going about these sorts of occasions in the manner they've always be conducted. It's basically an exercise in institution propogation but after complaining about it to myself and a few others I realised the problem wasn't with the other people or the tradition, it was with me.

It was a simple case of me not being myself on these sorts of occasions (which I had been guilty of around family for just about every sunday lunch since childhood). Nowadays I generally don't do anything I don't want to do and not only do I enjoy this kind of thing more but the people around me do as well.

Essentially events like christmas, birthdays, valentines are about building relationships with the people around you. It's so easy to get caught up in yourself and the day to day it's healthy to have a time designated to others. They're worthless if you're not yourself because you're not sharing yourself and your time with the people around you.

To OP: If you make a firm decision not to participate in these sorts of conformities/events/whatever you want to call them, you'd definitely have to make the time at other stages to give them some attention and show them you care. In my opinion (by which I mean myself) I'd be worried I'd procrastinate and not get around to it. However, if you could do that then there's really nothing wrong with giving up the formal occasions.

Maybe the way I'm looking at this is way off the mark from OP but I figured I'd share anyway.