RTE to visit Kerry in bid to resolve Saorview issues

marno21

Noticed this on Radio Kerry news this evening: (http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/)

RTE to visit Kerry this week in bid to resolve Saorview issue

RTE are to come to Kerry this week in response to concerns about people not being able to get Saorview or Saorsat.
The three South Kerry TDs raised the issue with RTE at a meeting last week.
On October 24th the digital television switchover will take place.
After this date people who get their television signal from an aerial will no longer receive a signal unless they have Saorview, Saorsat or have a satellite television provider.
However, people in some areas of Kerry are concerned that they will not be able to get either Saorview or Saorsat owing to their location.
Deputies Brendan Griffin, Michael Healy Rae and Tom Fleming last week attended the Oireachtas Communications Committee meeting at which RTE was also represented.
RTE gave assurances to the TDs that they will look individually at areas where people cannot get either service.
Representatives from RTE will visit Kerry this week to investigate the issue.
Anyone who is unable to get the service is being urged to contact RTE to make them aware of their situation.

More relays?

JonathonS

How many houses in Kerry can't get either Saorview or Saorsat?
Ten? Twenty?
What is the solution?
And why are RTENL getting involved in these individual cases (if they exist)?

formerly scottish paddy

JonathonS wrote: »

How many houses in Kerry can't get either Saorview or Saorsat?
Ten? Twenty?
What is the solution?
And why are RTENL getting involved in these individual cases (if they exist)?

Healy Rae............political..........every house gets its own relay! :mad:

How likely is it that you won't be able to receive Saorsat?

I can understand individual cases - for example I used to live beside a railway embankment and bridge in Drumcondra which completely blocked my LOS to the south but I can't really see how a whole town or village would be unable to receive Saorsat.

byte

Amusing that it was left to the last few weeks before DSO.

STB

They probably cannot receive the Saorview on their Mitsubishi Black Diamonds.

formerly scottish paddy

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/

If you look, this is at the bottom of their running order, hardly a burning issue.

JonathonS

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

Healy Rae............political..........every house gets its own relay! :mad:

STB wrote: »

They probably cannot receive the Saorview on their Mitsubishi Black Diamonds.

The Cush

The Kerry Saorview/Saorsat issue was discussed at the Oireachtas Joint Committe on Communications last week

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81043551#post81043551

Antenna

The Cush wrote: »

The Kerry Saorview/Saorsat issue was discussed at the Oireachtas Joint Committe on Communications last week

Mr. Michael Keogh: All of those smaller transposers are depending on signals from the big sites. If the transposer serving the Ballymacarbry area is somewhere to the south of the village, it will be getting its signal from Mount Leinster. The small transposer gets the signal from Mount Leinster and repeats it. Therefore, the analogue signal for the whole country has to stay on, or the signal for the whole country has to go off. We cannot decide to leave the signal at an individual small site on for an extra few weeks. Technically, that is not possible.

Did RTENL not do what was 'Technically, that is not possible' a few years ago when they temporarily ran several analogue TV relays in the south and south-west of the country independently from Mullaghanish by feeding them from satellite boxes???
(during the time of the mast replacement works at Mullaghanish)

have a look at this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055741041

Surely it is even easier to do if MPEG4 terrestrial boxes and modulators can be used instead of sky boxes to do the same thing??

Incidentally TV 'deflectors' of the UK channels originally relayed UHF signals - directly from the UK or a 2nd hand/3rd hand etc signal from other deflectors - in the final years they replaced incoming analog UHF signals with digital/satellite receivers and modulators as a signal source - and that when their days were numbered.

To say it isn't justified might be one thing, but to say it is technically not possible is wrong.

It is ironic that (as well as FM etc) RTE transmitted RTE Radio 1 on both MW and LW (which was to replace MW service) for about 4 years (2004-2008) before MW was turned off. Surely there was far less justification (and much greater cost) for this, than some extension of analogue TV in some areas of the country where Saorsat is such an issue???

MarkK

Antenna wrote: »

Surely it is even easier to do if MPEG4 terrestrial boxes and modulators can be used instead of sky boxes to do the same thing??

Would it be easier to get the old relays to retransmit the Saorview signal itself, than to rig up Saorview boxes and modulators?

Antenna

MarkK wrote: »

Would it be easier to get the old relays to retransmit the Saorview signal itself, than to rig up Saorview boxes and modulators?

I'm not saying that shouldn't be done in the future, but there could be a lot of cost, and there is a lack of time to do so, some extension of analogue with them would give breathing space to decide what to do next (convert the relays to digital or else get Saorsat ).
The costs of converting the relays to digital may reduce if they wait a while (the same could be said for Saorsat receivers/LNBs etc). There is also a lack of experience of how Saorsat set-ups will perform during harsh winter weather, they are significantly more prone to bad weather issues than sky installations.

marno21

RTE should upgrade a final few sites and leave analogue going at those sites (modulated Saorview boxes etc). With the current economy and what not, it's a disgrace that people with perfectly functioning aerial systems have to go out and buy a new satellite system, if RTENL already have a relay in the area it shouldn't cost that much to upgrade.

Places I would upgrade:

Abbeyfeale, Co. Limerick (has had a site since the VHF days)
Lauragh, Co. Kerry (has DTT allocation and is a total blackspot)
Crossbarry, Co. Cork (covers areas like Halfway and Ballinhassig, and has a DTT allocation)
Inistioge, Co. Kilkenny (allocation, relay and blackspot)
Ballymacarbry, Co. Waterford (relay already, and is a blackspot)
Ashford, Co. Wicklow (blackspot)
Avoca, Co. Wicklow (blackspot)
Westport, Co. Mayo (should really have a relay tbh)

That's only 8, and would be another improvement on coverage. If places like Clonmany and Timoleague can get relays, I see no reason why the above shouldn't get relays

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Abbeyfeale, Co. Limerick (has had a site since the VHF days)

Is Abbeyfeale not served by Knockanore nowadays?

The Cush

marno21 wrote: »

if RTENL already have a relay in the area it shouldn't cost that much to upgrade.

€25,000 was mentioned somewhere to upgrade a relay, can't remember where I came across it.

marno21

Karsini wrote: »

Is Abbeyfeale not served by Knockanore nowadays?

According to the coverage checker, parts, although on second look, most of the white areas seem to be out towards Templeglantine and around the town, the town centre iteself looks ok.

lawhec

Saorview coverage is now reaching the area of seriously diminishing returns - their coverage of the ROI population will now be as good if not better than that planned for the three Freeview PSB multiplexes in N. Ireland after the 24th. There comes a point where investment is not a practical pay-off with the cost of providing transmission vs. heads of population served per site. If you're in a part of the state where you cannot get useful reception of either Saorview or Saorsat then you will be extraordinary unlucky - in rural areas for this case the most likely culprit will be that the location is in a valley with significant hills/mountains roughly south/SSE with the result that the sun will be hidden behind it for several months of the year.

If there had been concerns about parts of South Kerry or elsewhere having no Saorview or Saorsat reception, there should have been approaches made several months ago, not as the switch is about to be flicked.

€25,000 was mentioned somewhere to upgrade a relay, can't remember where I came across it.

I remember vaguely that in the UK the average cost of upgrading a relay to be ready to transmit DTT on three multiplexes was in the region of STG£35k per multiplex. The costs vary with different demands e.g. power output, wherever the same frequencies are being used for DTT and so on. I'm told that the relays in N.Ireland which are using the same channel allocations for DTT that they currently use for analogue and where the source frequency is the same across all three PSB multiplexes (Yes for Divis and Brougher but no for Limavady) have all now been fitted with dual analogue/DVB-T(2) receiving components so that they should relay the PSB multiplexes once they come into service at their parent and if all goes well, will only need a quick check to ensure everything runs smoothly on both switchover days. For others more needs to be done e.g. new frequencies being used to relay, new frequencies to receive from its parent additional work needs to be carried out and possibly new transposers installed in a few cases.

lawhec

marno21 wrote: »

According to the coverage checker, parts, although on second look, most of the white areas seem to be out towards Templeglantine and around the town, the town centre iteself looks ok.

The coverage checker is notoriously conservative in its predictions. It's a shame RTÉNL haven't published coverage details DigitalUK have done, where they have two coverage standards - service & marginal.

formerly scottish paddy

I think what will happen is that after ASO the situation will be examined as to to how many people are genuinely without any service, and how cost effective it will be to remedy.
I would be concerned that some of the reports seem to indicate that "people may not be able to get Saorview" maybe I am wrong but it sounds like no attempt has been made to see if reception is possible. I think some people believe Saorview only becomes available on the 24th. RTE NL have actually asked that if anyone has made an attempt to get Saorview and failed, to contact them.

The Cush

Sponge Bob posted here previously that RTÉNL has indicated to equipment suppliers that 5 new Saorview sites could be switched on in 2013.

lawhec

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

I think what will happen is that after ASO the situation will be examined as to to how many people are genuinely without any service, and how cost effective it will be to remedy.
I would be concerned that some of the reports seem to indicate that "people may not be able to get Saorview" maybe I am wrong but it sounds like no attempt has been made to see if reception is possible. I think some people believe Saorview only becomes available on the 24th. RTE NL have actually asked that if anyone has made an attempt to get Saorview and failed, to contact them.

The claim of 98 percent coverage would leave around 92,000 people in the state outside of official coverage - however these 92,000 people won't all be living in dead spots for Saorview. I would say that the majority of them would be able to receive Saorview with a better aerial installation corresponding to a fringe or near-fringe set-up i.e. using a grouped aerial rather than wideband, a bigger aerial (18 elements vs 10) and possibly a masthead amp. That will leave an undetermined about in dead spots who'll have to rely on Saorsat but as I said again you'll need to be very unlucky if you couldn't receive that either. After the analogue switch-off there might be a case or two where unexpected gaps in Saorview coverage appear and the population to be served is high enough to justify installing a relay especially if there was an analogue service previously - but it just isn't feasible to ensure every half-dozen property ribbon development can easily access Saorview.

The Cush wrote: »

Sponge Bob posted here previously that RTÉNL has indicated to equipment suppliers that 5 new Saorview sites could be switched on in 2013.

Probably the case that with more demand now internationally for DVB-T(2) transmitters and transposers especially in developing countries the respective prices for such kit is likely to have come down in price and as a result RTÉNL reckon that a handful of sites more targeting some larger dead spots is viable.

zg3409

Those in true fully dead spots never had the option of Sky and either had no TV at all or basic channels from a tiny relay. It would be fairly easy to predict coverage black holes for Saorsat and Sky based on topography and overlay that with Saorview coverage. People in those areas would be best served probably with a cable system or a cable running down a hill or even a 2.4Ghz wireless video sender. I have seen in the past many "DX" aerials mounted on the top of a nearby hill with cables ran down a field etc. I have seen a wind turbine powered "deflector" at the edge of a forest beaming into a valley. I would say it was DIY and not licenced. When I saw it it was rather worse for wear and was out of service.

I would say the numbers of people truly unable to get anything and totally reliant on a current small relay are tiny.

I do know of people in Wicklow who only received the UK channels from Wales and never the Irish channels, although they could get Sky or Saorsat.

We have to be realistic. 99.99% coverage is more than even Sky offer. There comes a point where people are living in a location that is unviable to serve. It's up to them to come up with an innovative solution and pay for it or give up. It would be like trying to provide mains sewage to every house in the country. People just don't expect it.

Sam Russell

Surely the answer to the smaller groups of house is a self-help scheme. There should be one design for 'deflecting' Saorview, and a second one for Saorsat to Saorview retransmission. The power requirement would be low as a few watts would be enough for the transmitter, with the whole installation mounted on a hill top, so it could be powered by solar panels.

This whole process should have been planned for 12 months ago.

formerly scottish paddy

zg3409 wrote: »

I do know of people in Wicklow who only received the UK channels from Wales and never the Irish channels, although they could get Sky or Saorsat.

And I have heard of people in the West of Wales who could only get RTE, unlike mountains the sea is not a barrier to tv signals.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

Surely the answer to the smaller groups of house is a self-help scheme. There should be one design for 'deflecting' Saorview, and a second one for Saorsat to Saorview retransmission. The power requirement would be low as a few watts would be enough for the transmitter, with the whole installation mounted on a hill top, so it could be powered by solar panels.

This whole process should have been planned for 12 months ago.

The reason that there was a fuss in Timoleague is because they were told they couldn't upgrade their self help system. If they were given the green light for this before it became an issue there would've been no problem, but the solution was to step in from RTENL and upgrade it to Saorview as an official site.

A self help system would go a long way in solving the coverage issues, seeing as a lot of sites not upgraded yet are either self help or ex self help TXs that the operators would have no bother upgrading. There wouldn't be an issue with power or interference either as most of the remaining sites are under 100W (if not lower)

Sam Russell

Self-help is the way to go for small communities as it would be cheaper for a group of, say 50 houses, to pay €200 each to build a €10,000 self help installation that allows them to operate readily available AV equipment without the problems that 50 individual Saorsat installations would give rise to. Obviously, a larger community would be more economical.

With the benefit of a standard RTE NL design would be cheaper and more reliable, besides being fully compliant with regulations.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

The Kerry Saorview/Saorsat issue was discussed at the Oireachtas Joint Committe on Communications last week

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81043551#post81043551

Some Dáil questions recently on the Kerry and Saorview issue

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012092000056?opendocument#Broadcasting Services
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012092500070?opendocument#Broadcasting Services
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012092600081?opendocument#Digital Television Service
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012092700080?opendocument#Television Reception
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012100200066?opendocument#Written Answers Nos 335-354 (Q.351)

With specific reference to Kerry I have been informed by RTÉNL that SAORVIEW has delivered a significant improvement in terrestrial coverage in both geographical and population coverage terms as follows:

• Population
• RTÉ One Analogue 90% population / SAORVIEW 95% / + 5%
• RTÉ Two Analogue 90% population / SAORVIEW 95% / + 5%
• TV3 Analogue 44% population / SAORVIEW 95% / +51%
• TG4 Analogue 75% population / SAORVIEW 95% / +20%

• Geographical
• RTÉ One Analogue 75% area / SAORVIEW 87% / + 12%
• RTÉ Two Analogue 75% area / SAORVIEW 87% / + 12%
• TV3 Analogue 40% area / SAORVIEW 87% / + 47%
• TG4 Analogue 64% area / SAORVIEW 87% / + 23%

watty

But the snag is it's not the SAME areas enlarged.

Stinicker

One of the biggest problems in Kerry is Wind Farms which have been causing havoc down here to the Reception from Mullaghanish for years. Nobody wants Saorsat either as it is too expensive and lacks TV3 & 3e and the dish is a total eyesore.

The Cush

Another Dáil yesterday on the Saorview in Kerry issue

Wednesday, 10 October 2012

152. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

asked the Minister for Communications; Energy and Natural Resources in view of the fact that large areas of County Kerry will lose television reception after 24 October 2012 if he will ensure that existing TV transmission masts will be upgraded to ensure that some technical solution will be found for the problems that are continuing to exist; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43579/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): RTÉ has built, owns and controls the SAORVIEW TV network and is responsible for the roll-out, coverage and operation of that network. This includes information on transmitter sites being used. This is in accordance with Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act 2009, which provides that the development of the RTÉ network is an operational matter for RTÉ.

Section 130 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 Act provides that RTÉ must roll out a national digital TV network to the same extent as its existing analogue network. In this regard, I understand from RTÉ that its analogue network covers 98% of the population and the SAORVIEW network will also provide 98% population coverage.

The SAORVIEW network is largely completed. The remaining thirteen sites, including Dingle in Kerry have been on air since 1 October and will provide increased coverage in the relevant areas. It must be understood that it is simply not possible to provide 100% coverage by terrestrial means. Reasons for this include, for example, local topography.

In addition to SAORVIEW, RTÉ has developed SAORSAT, a new free-to-air satellite service unique to Ireland to ensure the RTÉ television services are available to the remaining 2% of the population. SAORSAT launched in March 2012. Currently, SAORSAT provides access to the RTÉ channels, including the new RTÉ channels developed for SAORVIEW, and TG4. TV3 has not yet made a decision regarding carriage on SAORSAT. SAORVIEW and SAORSAT coverage and reception information is available on www.saorview.ie and www.rtenl.ie.

Specifically in relation to Kerry, as I explained to the Deputy in a parliamentary question reply of 26 September, according to RTÉ Networks Limited (RTÉNL) six of the sixty four SAORVIEW transmission sites are located in County Kerry (Mullaghanish – Cork/Kerry border, Kilkeaveragh, Maamclasagh, Dingle, Knockmoyle, Cnoc An Oir). Additionally, parts of County Kerry are covered by transmission sites in other counties (Castletownbere, Bantry – Cork, Maghera – Clare).

Furthermore, as also explained to the Deputy, I have been informed by RTÉNL that SAORVIEW has delivered a significant improvement in terrestrial coverage in both geographical and population coverage in County Kerry as set out in the following tables:

Population
•RTÉ One Analogue 90% population / SAORVIEW 95% / + 5%
•RTÉ Two Analogue 90% population / SAORVIEW 95% / + 5%
•TV3 Analogue 44% population / SAORVIEW 95% / +51%
•TG4 Analogue 75% population / SAORVIEW 95% / +20%

Geographical
•RTÉ One Analogue 75% area / SAORVIEW 87% / + 12%
•RTÉ Two Analogue 75% area / SAORVIEW 87% / + 12%
•TV3 Analogue 40% area / SAORVIEW 87% / + 47%
•TG4 Analogue 64% area / SAORVIEW 87% / + 23%

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012101000079?opendocument#Written Answers Nos. 151-159

formerly scottish paddy

Healy-Rae who else.....:(

The Cush

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

Healy-Rae who else.....:(

He is their local representative after all and you never know when the next general election will be, in a constituency reduced from 2 three-seaters to 1 five-seater.

The Cush

Another Dáil question last Thur on Saorview coverage in Kerry, Brendan Griffin this time. RTÉ ran a Saorsat training course for 10 installers on Oct 1st, mentioned at the Oireachtas Committee on Communications at the end of Sept.

Thursday, 11 October 2012

Television Reception

40. Deputy Brendan Griffin

asked the Minister for Communications; Energy and Natural Resources if he will intervene to find a positive outcome for the residents of areas of west Kerry (details supplied), where Saorview will not be available on 24 October and where Saorsat installers have come back with negative results; if he will work to ensure that these areas will have a viable television service available to them; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43507/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): RTÉ has built, owns and controls the Saorview TV network and is responsible for the roll-out, coverage and operation of that network. This includes information on transmitter sites being used. This is in accordance with Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act 2009, which provides that the development of the RTÉ network is an operational matter for RTÉ. Section 130 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 Act provides that RTÉ must roll out a national digital TV network to the same extent as its existing analogue network. In this regard, I understand from RTÉ that their analogue network covers 98% of the population and the Saorview network will also provide 98% population coverage. It is impossible to cover 100% of the population by terrestrial means.

The SAORVIEW network is largely completed. Regarding cover in County Kerry I have been informed by RTÉ Networks Limited (RTÉNL) that SAORVIEW is a significant improvement over Analogue Terrestrial Television coverage in County Kerry as follows:

RTÉ One analogue 90% population compared with SAORVIEW 95% - an increase of 5%
RTÉ Two Analogue 90% population compared with SAORVIEW 95% - an increase of 5%
TV3 Analogue 44% population compared with SAORVIEW 95%- an increase of 51%
TG4 Analogue 75% population compared with SAORVIEW 95% - an increase of 20%

Geographical SAORVIEW coverage of Kerry is also far better than analogue was and is as follows:
RTÉ One Analogue 75% area compared with SAORVIEW 87% - an increase of 12%
RTÉ Two Analogue 75% area compared with SAORVIEW 87% - an increase of 12%
TV3 Analogue 40% area compared with SAORVIEW 87% - an increase of 47%
TG4 Analogue 64% area compared with SAORVIEW 87% - an increase of 23%

As I mentioned above it is simply not possible to provide 100% coverage by terrestrial means. In relation to the specific areas as referenced, according to RTÉNL, because of local topography they are SAORVIEW challenged. The information in relation to SAORVIEW coverage is on the SAORVIEW and RTÉNL web pages (www.saorview.ie and www.rtenl.ie). I would point out to the Deputy that these coverage maps are conservative and RTÉNL recommend people in these marginal areas talk to a competent local aerial installer.

In addition to SAORVIEW RTÉ has developed SAORSAT, a new free-to-air satellite service unique to Ireland to ensure the RTÉ television services are available to the remaining 2% of the population. RTÉ is not obliged to provide this satellite service and is doing so on its own initiative. I have been informed by RTÉNL that they arranged additional SAORSAT training for installers on Monday 1st October. Ten installers attended a training course in Kerry. The course was open to any installer and the ones that attended were from areas such as Firies, Killorglin, Kenmare, Killarney, Cahersiveen, Beaufort, Waterville and Castleisland. The course showed, inter alia, the best dish type to use, how to attach the dish correctly and how to position it correctly.

According to RTÉNL, the parameters for SAORSAT are a little bit tighter than installers would be used to with Sky or Freesat but a good SAORSAT installation is well within the capabilities of any competent installer. Installers that are having difficulty installing SAORSAT should contact RTÉNL directly and RTÉNL will arrange the necessary training.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012101100041?opendocument#Television Reception

Mr. Michael Keogh:
...

Installing a 1 metre dish seems to be an issue for some installers, but we have provided training and will provide more. As there seems to be a particular issue for some installers in south Kerry, we are providing extra training for them next week.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/TRJ2012092700016?opendocument

Sponge Bob

Rtenl have written a series of reports on replacing a number of deflectors and transposers in Kerry. These reports do not exclude the possibility of new infill relays but they do insist that the communities provide a proper site in each case. Many of the analogue relays are not optimally located or have access issues or have been degraded by forestry since they were originally installed.

I understand that 6 or 7 communities in east and south Kerry are being looked at.

Antenna

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Rtenl have written a series of reports on replacing a number of deflectors and transposers in Kerry. These reports do not exclude the possibility of new infill relays but they do insist that the communities provide a proper site in each case. Many of the analogue relays are not optimally located or have access issues or have been degraded by forestry since they were originally installed.

I understand that 6 or 7 communities in east and south Kerry are being looked at.

Unless they 'swallow their pride' and announce some extension of analogue TV from the Mullaghanish transmitter and relevant relays its a bit late to be considering this now.

Are viewers really going to temporarily get Saorsat and then changeover to Saorview in a few months time if it becomes available in those places? How much is all that going to cost? Viewers later trying to sell the Saorsat dish/receiver secondhand would only yield a fraction of the initial costs + installation.

I said before that a single date for the whole country was Dublin-centric thinking, and that there should have been an extension in areas where Saorsat was an issue.

Peter Rhea

Antenna wrote: »

Are viewers really going to temporarily get Saorsat and then changeover to Saorview in a few months time if it becomes available in those places? How much is all that going to cost?

I've wondered about that myself, where this subject of terrestrial coverage being restored sometime after ASO has been brought up. All seems a bit odd, even for self-help setups.

Sponge Bob

As many of these Kerry transmitters (5 at least) are fed by Sky boxes there is actually no reason to turn them off this month at all.

Stinicker

Sponge Bob wrote: »

As many of these Kerry transmitters (5 at least) are fed by Sky boxes there is actually no reason to turn them off this month at all.

Some of them are fed by a mix of VHF from Mullaghanish and the TV3 and TG4 part is fed from a sky box.

marno21

Were these locations of the transposers fed by Sky published? I know Kilkeveragh (plus is Killurley West etc rebroadcasting Kilkeveragh) was fed by Sky for analogue.

There was discussion on Kerry Today yesterday but I missed it and it's not published online

Sam Russell

Why is this an issue eighteen months after the official launch of Saorview?

Was there no planning?

Hold on, planning is a different matter in Kerry. Something to do with one-off houses, and nothing to do with TV.

The Cush

Switchover leaves some staring at snow - Irish Times

Villagers angry they need 'unsightly dishes' to get TV signal - Irish Independent

'Black spot' viewers left in the dark - Irish Independent

byte

That Dolly O'Reilly wan would want to try that aerial she has a bit higher up, like the roof if it's not working there :pac: Also, it must've started to rain.

Sponge Bob

The problem with the Bonane ( and other) relays is that RTE never OWNED them. Had the locals transferred the site and mast to RTE then perhaps something would have been done.

RTE are also abandoning masts they do own, eg Cornamona, this morning although it will continue to pull in €30k a year for them as a mobile tower.

The Cush

Annascaul was one of 7 transmitters switched off early the night before. It went off air at 7pm according to a report on the Six One News yesterday evening

Six One News: Digital switchover creates problems in southwest Kerry

watty

I'm sure maybe 0.5% to 1% have lost reception and RTE NL should help and also have a spec and help with licence of self help DTT (not analogue) schemes fed by Satellite.

BAI should make being on Saorsat mandatory for any DTT license holder (i.e. TV3)

But about 20% have gone from rubbish reception to good reception and more than 2% have got RTE, more than 5% TG4 and more than 10% got TV3 that could only get Sky before.

While it's terrible to lose reception when you had it I do think that the problem is being overstated by some people / politicians by highlighting the most unfortunate individuals.

The original main sites of previous network chosen for maximum coverage at any quality on VHF for one channel with minimum number of sites. It was never a well engineered network for UHF, which is why planning it better the coverage while much better with fewer sites (than the UHF analogue ended with) isn't the same coverage.

There should be subsidies and engineering support for solutions to areas that genuinely have lost reception.

formerly scottish paddy

watty wrote: »

There should be subsidies and engineering support for solutions to areas that genuinely have lost reception.

I think you'll find that that's what will happen..........................once the local TD's get involved

sligotrain

watty wrote: »

I'm sure maybe 0.5% to 1% have lost reception and RTE NL should help and also have a spec and help with licence of self help DTT (not analogue) schemes fed by Satellite.

BAI should make being on Saorsat mandatory for any DTT license holder (i.e. TV3)

But about 20% have gone from rubbish reception to good reception and more than 2% have got RTE, more than 5% TG4 and more than 10% got TV3 that could only get Sky before.

While it's terrible to lose reception when you had it I do think that the problem is being overstated by some people / politicians by highlighting the most unfortunate individuals.

The original main sites of previous network chosen for maximum coverage at any quality on VHF for one channel with minimum number of sites. It was never a well engineered network for UHF, which is why planning it better the coverage while much better with fewer sites (than the UHF analogue ended with) isn't the same coverage.

There should be subsidies and engineering support for solutions to areas that genuinely have lost reception.

I would broadly agree with the points you've made in the above post. I'm not sure of the real need for any self help scheme now that Saorsat is available. However if a small community wishes to set up a self help scheme - presumably fed by Saorsat - then there should be no real issue provided planning regulations are met, broadcasting standards I.e. Saorview spec is met and the right frequency and transmission power is used.

I am less comfortable with your assertation that TV3 be forced to go onto Saorsat. Saorsat was developed as a commercial initiative by RTE NL and as such is not specifically regulated in the same way the Saorview platform is. However Saorsat IS in my opinion a satellite platform operating in Ireland so is there the possibility that RTE would themselves be forced to provide both TV3 and 3e and even the Oireachtas channel on Saorsat at RTE's expense?

watty

Government has a stupidly designed by Comreg auction to sell off part of TV spectrum (so called Digital Dividend).

RTENL has entirely funded the Digital roll out over 70M. RTE has entirely funded the Saorview campaign.

Government backtracked and cancelled box subsidies for poor (even US which regards ANY state support of poor as raging red communism gave box subsidies).

The Government "godigital.ie" campaign was cheap and near useless practically promoting Sky & UPC.

The UK has a box scheme.

They should have set aside a fund and partly paid for rollout as it's for PSB and they are getting the spectrum to waste sell. Then the network would have been bigger.

Also they should have had a separate process for pay DTT with END date for awarding licences in March 2008.

ASO could have been announced in March 2008 for the date of October 2010 or perhaps October 2011 if a two year rather than 1 year pre-ASO ban on incompatible gear.

The Government should have banned import and sale of unapproved gear (except for individuals) 1 to 2 years before ASO. Like they did in France.

So now very belatedly they need to fund RTENL doing properly engineered fill in fed by Saorsat and pass a law that ALL DTT must be on Saorsat. No more CATV/Hotel systems masquerading as Relays.

Of course this is a country where we can't deliver fibre Broadband to everyone via sewers because 440,000 rely on septic tanks.

A Country where the Politicians convince themselves that Mobile Phone companies will deliver Broadband by 4G, when Comreg is mandating less than 30% population coverage, it can't do BB anyway and even 50% geographic coverage costs more than fibre to everyone.

watty

sligotrain wrote: »

I am less comfortable with your assertation that TV3 be forced to go onto Saorsat. Saorsat was developed as a commercial initiative by RTE NL and as such is not specifically regulated in the same way the Saorview platform is. However Saorsat IS in my opinion a satellite platform operating in Ireland so is there the possibility that RTE would themselves be forced to provide both TV3 and 3e and even the Oireachtas channel on Saorsat at RTE's expense?

Saorview is a commercial platform for FTA TV. Everyone has to pay to be on it. Saorsat is an extension of it not envisaged by BCI (now BAI). Of course TV3 has to pay. No-one can have a free ride on Saorsat anymore than Saorview.

In UK no-one gets on Freesat for free. They all pay.

If legislation is passed the TV3 problem vanishes as the Saorview carriage price would rise slightly as it would include the mandatory Saorsat coverage. The only reason it's not like that is because BAI is more obsessed with PayTV than doing our own national TV properly.

It's the only sensible way to do it on a small country's Free to Air TV platform.

sligotrain

In his speech yesterday Pat Rabbitte did refer to the so-called Digital Dividend obtained by selling off the spectrum formerly occupied by Analogue TV. But since RTE have had to fund the Saorview rollout, shouldn't they be compensated for the cost if the Government makes money out of the selling of spectrum?

Strange that RTE have had to fork out for something the government benefits from.

sligotrain

watty wrote: »

If legislation is passed the TV3 problem vanishes as the Saorview carriage price would rise slightly as it would include the mandatory Saorsat coverage. The only reason it's not like that is because BAI is more obsessed with PayTV than doing our own national TV properly.

Legislation may or may not be passed by the Oireachtas or whatever's left of it if FG have their way, but just because legislation exists that doesn't mean something will be done.