Vast majority of serious accidents on Dublins roads involve bikes/peds/motorbikes

Tallon

THE VAST MAJORITY of serious accidents on Dublin’s roads involve cyclists, pedestrians or motorcyclists, Gardaí have said.

Gardaí have launched a major operation to reduce the number of casualties on the capital’s streets after research found that October and November is traditionally a blackspot for serious accidents as clocks go back and evenings get shorter.

Speaking at the launch of the campaign today, Gardaí said:

• Out of 51 people who were killed or seriously injured on Dublin’s roads so far this year, more than three quarters were pedestrians, cyclists or motorcyclists.
• The most risky period for vulnerable users (pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists) is between 4pm and 6pm on a weekday (Monday to Friday).
• The Garda districts which saw the highest levels of fatal/serious crashes were Clondalkin, Tallaght, Coolock, Blanchardstown, Ballymun, Store Street, Lucan, Dún Laoghaire and Raheny.
• Almost 80 per cent of serious accidents happened in 50kph zones.
• There have been eight fatalities on Dublin’s roads so far this year.

The National Transport Authority is to give out up to 75oo sets of lights to cyclists at major events and popular cycling areas in order to increase their visibility as part of the casualty reduction plan.

All four of Dublin’s local authorities will run highly visable signs along roadsides urging drivers to reduce their speeds. Ads will also be placed on Dublin Buses and Luas trams to encourage road safety.

Speaking at the launch, Assistant Commissioner Gerard Philips said that Dublin now has the safest roads of all EU capital cities.

The Asst Commissioner also said that he would support recent calls for an increase in penalty points for drivers who use mobile phones, citing research which said that people are four times more likely to be in an accident if they use their phones while driving.

The plan to reduce casualties on the roads at this time of year, which is now in its third year, has seen a significant reduction in road fatalities. 32 people died on Dublin’s roads in October – November 2009, 19 died in 2010 and there were 11 fatalities during the same period in 2011.

http://jrnl.ie/617881


So what does the Motors forum think?

It's nice to see them implementing these steps

ballooba

"All four of Dublin’s local authorities will run highly visable signs along roadsides urging drivers to reduce their speeds."

I imagine the RSA brainstorming sessions as being like the episode of Father Ted with the bomb on the milk float....

"Is there nothing to be said for another Speed Kills sign?"

As for people on mobile phones, I make no concessions for them as a pedestrian and minimal as a motorist. They should be allowed exit the gene pool with minimal fuss.

JuliusCaesar

I wonder do 90% of these accidents involve motor vehicles? It's hard to imagine that cyclists are running pedestrians down at this rate. :-)

Seasoft

Apart from Store Street, all the other Garda areas with the higher accident rates are in the suburbs. No surprise. Unlike our Continental neighbours, bar the UK, we have a dismal system of pedestrian priority crossings. In France,Spain, Italy, etc. every junction has painted white pedestrian crossings. Here the four local authorities put cinder tracks, which mean nothing, and insist on expensive pelican, light controlled crossings. Due to cost they are few and far between.

Until our towns, and in this case, our suburbs, have properly designed and frequent pedestrian priority crossings motorists will not have a pedestrian safety outlook, and the statistics will continue as they are.

If all the money spent on speed ramps was used for pedestrian crossings I wonder what the result would be? For those that know it, take Whitworth Rd in Drumcondra. I think 5 sets of ramps. Also bus stops. NO pedestrian crossing to or from the bus-stops. Why not?

dudara

ballooba wrote: »

"All four of Dublin’s local authorities will run highly visable signs along roadsides urging drivers to reduce their speeds."

The single best thing that they could do would be to ticket and fine people heavily for parking in cycle lanes. And, for the likes of Rathmines, turn those lanes into 24 hr lanes.

I cycle around at weekends etc (not frequently), but it's flipping dangerous having to weave in and around parked cars.

Atomic Pineapple

I dunno how I haven't seen someone killed on the road at the dart station in Dun Laoghaire, pedestrians do be suicidal after exiting the platform and trying to cross the road there and at the set of lights nearby, I've seen pedestrians literally walk straight out in front of moving cars with total disregard for their own safety.

JuliusCaesar

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I wonder do 90% of these accidents involve motor vehicles? It's hard to imagine that cyclists are running pedestrians down at this rate. :-)

Indeed, gnomey drivers quite likely responsible.

alias no.9

Seasoft wrote: »

Apart from Store Street, all the other Garda areas with the higher accident rates are in the suburbs. No surprise. Unlike our Continental neighbours, bar the UK, we have a dismal system of pedestrian priority crossings. In France,Spain, Italy, etc. every junction has painted white pedestrian crossings. Here the four local authorities put cinder tracks, which mean nothing, and insist on expensive pelican, light controlled crossings. Due to cost they are few and far between.

Until our towns, and in this case, our suburbs, have properly designed and frequent pedestrian priority crossings motorists will not have a pedestrian safety outlook, and the statistics will continue as they are.

If all the money spent on speed ramps was used for pedestrian crossings I wonder what the result would be? For those that know it, take Whitworth Rd in Drumcondra. I think 5 sets of ramps. Also bus stops. NO pedestrian crossing to or from the bus-stops. Why not?

Not certain about the rest but while the junctions in Spain may have crossings marked, these are to indicate the only place you may cross, motorists are only obliged to stop if you have clearly signalled your intent to cross. If you cross anywhere else and you can be fined. I'm all for more pedestrian crossings if pedestrians stay off the road everywhere else.

boiledsweets

with bikes and motorbikes by the nature of them,you only(in a car or even worse a lorry with bad mirroring)see them at the last possible second,people on bikes and cyclists should proceed with caution when coming up along side a car or even worse a lorry,they should go that bit slower so we can spot them on time.

Having said that im sure there are a few dickhead drivers too,and we cant say all car drivers are perfect either,thats not what im saying..

awec

This post has been deleted.

Tallon

Will you all stop FFS!!!

Here we go again with the bike v pedestrian v motor arguments

Read the article;

Out of 51 people who were killed or seriously injured on Dublin’s roads so far this year, more than three quarters were pedestrians, cyclists or motorcyclists.

It's saying that the people that were injured were pedestrians, cyclists or motorcyclists

The point being, EVERYONE (Not just motorists) need to be more vigilant of these people on the roads as they are more vulnerable than a person in a car

Hence why they are handing out Lights, hi-vis etc...

One thread without This V That would be nice here...

Eric Cartman

cyclists and pedestrians need to take more care on the road, all the advertising puts the blame squarely on car drivers, often a lot of these accidents are to do with pedestrians and cyclists not paying attention / cyclists ignoring rules of the road.

If there was a campaign to make other road users more aware instead of focusing on cars, after all a bike or person can stop in a few meters, a car takes longer to stop.

ShadowHearth

I'll say it...

I drove in Dublin... Thanks, but no thanks. That place is like Wild West when it comes to people on bikes.
I would not be surprised if a huge part of accidents is caused by careless bicycle drivers themselfs. I not saying all car drivers are saint too, there are alot of idiots too, but **** me, if I drove only twice in Dublin for the last 7 years and the only thing that scared me ****lessly were careless bicycle drivers then I presume there is something wrong in that part of road users.

*getting ready to be hanged by anyone who used a bike at least once in the last 5 years

terrydel

dudara wrote: »

The single best thing that they could do would be to ticket and fine people heavily for parking in cycle lanes. And, for the likes of Rathmines, turn those lanes into 24 hr lanes.

I cycle around at weekends etc (not frequently), but it's flipping dangerous having to weave in and around parked cars.

Stop weaving then!

terrydel

My experience of commuting (via motorbike) daily for the last 8 years, from Tallaght/Clondalkin to Ballsbridge, is that cyclists as a general group are by far and away the worst culprits when it comes to braking the rules and dangerous behaviour. Every day I see at least one thing from one of them that beggars belief.
The impression I get from many is that they expect others to ensure they arent killed or injured, its not their job to ensure that themselves.
For the record, plenty of motorcyclists are no better.

Cienciano

The groups of people who are injured are the ones without a metal cage around them with crumple zones and lined with airbags? Who'd have thought it!
Handing out a few hi viz jackets isn't going to do anything, but as we all know, political decisions aren't about doing the right thing, it's about looking like your're doing something.
Policing the existing traffic laws would be far more effective. I travel across the city every day for 12 years and it's only once I've seen someone pulled over for a dangerous move.

terrydel

Cienciano wrote: »

The groups of people who are injured are the ones without a metal cage around them with crumple zones and lined with airbags? Who'd have thought it!
Handing out a few hi viz jackets isn't going to do anything, but as we all know, political decisions aren't about doing the right thing, it's about looking like your're doing something.
Policing the existing traffic laws would be far more effective. I travel across the city every day for 12 years and it's only once I've seen someone pulled over for a dangerous move.

Spot on. The EU nanny state nonsense coming down the tracks for motorcyclists is a load of rubbish. Won't make a difference.

Guy:Incognito

As I said in another thread, I'm amazed cyclists arent being killed or inured all the time on the roundabout over the M50 at Tallaght. Despite a lovely cycle lane routed under the road and kept completey seperate from the dual carriageway all the way down to Templeogue, an increaseing number of cyclists seem determind to cycle on the road , including over the roundabout over the M50.

https://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.291091,-6.331558&spn=0.002572,0.006968&t=h&z=18

Cienciano wrote: »

The groups of people who are injured are the ones without a metal cage around them with crumple zones and lined with airbags? Who'd have thought it!
.

You'd think the ones without the metal cage would be much more cautious about their own safety so , wouldnt you?

There seems to be an awful lot of "it'll never happen to me" and "the cars will stop for me" attitude from pedestrians, cyclists and motor bike riders on the roads.

Mycroft H

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I'll say it...

I drove in Dublin... Thanks, but no thanks. That place is like Wild West when it comes to people on bikes.
I would not be surprised if a huge part of accidents is caused by careless bicycle drivers themselfs. I not saying all car drivers are saint too, there are alot of idiots too, but **** me, if I drove only twice in Dublin for the last 7 years and the only thing that scared me ****lessly were careless bicycle drivers then I presume there is something wrong in that part of road users.

*getting ready to be hanged by anyone who used a bike at least once in the last 5 years

I'm a person who owns a bike. And cycles pretty regularly in the city centre. I would agree with you partway. A lot of accidents, in my opinion could be prevented by prominent road positioning, sensible cycling and being lit up.

Although for some interesting facts on the matter have a look at this

<DCC Report on cycling fatalities >

11 Fatalities
8 of these deaths were of cyclists killed by left-turning Lorries.
1 involved a vehicle hitting a cyclist when changing lanes
1 a vehicle rear-ended the cyclist
1 was caused by a stolen vehicle driving head on into a cyclist.

Cars involved in 70% of cyclist accidents

Almost 70 per cent off all cycle collisions involved cars.

Left-turning vehicles were involved the majority of fatalities,
The most common collision involved right-turning cars. These accounted for just fewer than 20 per cent of incidents.

The next most common type is classified as “side swipes”, accounting for 15 per cent of collisions. These occur where a vehicle overtaking a cyclist or changing lanes hits the bicycle.

Door opening accidents accounted for about 14 per cent of incidents
Left-turning vehicles hitting cyclists accounted for just over 12 per cent.

Crashes where the fault is more likely to be attributable to the cyclist accounted for a much smaller proportion of incidents. In just over 4 per cent a cyclist hit a pedestrian, while in fewer than 3 per cent of collisions a cyclist turned right into on-coming traffic

http://www.traceysolicitors.ie/blog/cyclists-in-dublin-facts-figures-on-accidents/

sean_d

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

As I said in another thread, I'm amazed cyclists arent being killed or inured all the time on the roundabout over the M50 at Tallaght. Despite a lovely cycle lane routed under the road and kept completey seperate from the dual carriageway all the way down to Templeogue, an increaseing number of cyclists seem determind to cycle on the road , including over the roundabout over the M50.

Have you ever attempted to use that cycle lane?

Some problems, listed in order going from Tallaght towards Tempelogue:
1)Requires knowing that you need to leave the road early.
2)Requires negotiating the steel gate and descending the hairpins onto the under-roundabout complex
3)The entire of the cycle lane under the over the M50 is littered with glass
4)Several of the drainage channels are liable to cause a puncture
5)At certain times of day, it can involve a run in with groups of youths hanging around in the underpass
6)The tarmac is badly damaged in places, often due to fires being lit there by aforementioned youths
7)Slalom through the steel bollards at the far side of the M50
8)The section alongside the Spawell is lumpy, bumpy, cracked, undermined by tree roots and unsuitable for anything above walking speed
8)It spits you out in an awkward place at the roundabout, on the pedestrian crossing

The roundabout isn't that bad, if you have your wits about you and hold your lane. Certainly I'd put it at least on a par with the cycle lane option.

Chuck Stone

Better cycle lanes protected with concrete dividers would probably slash the accident rate.

Guy:Incognito

sean_d wrote: »

Have you ever attempted to use that cycle lane?
.

Yes. From April to July this year I was cycling from tallaght to Ballasbridge and used it.

I found it fine. A couple of damaged parts of tarmac but it was grand.

Its a 15 yard stretch then a hairpin. Hardly a massive inconvenience. https://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.290284,-6.333107&spn=0.000002,0.001742&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=53.290284,-6.333107&panoid=Ra8bcvs8fr1S7o49UrqEVg&cbp=12,321.71,,0,-10.6

sean_d wrote: »

The roundabout isn't that bad, if you have your wits about you and hold your lane. Certainly I'd put it at least on a par with the cycle lane option.

Any car driver that misses the slip road on to the M50 comign from Tallaght or just changes their mind about heading down towards Templeogue and takes the M50 instead isnt going to be expectign a bike to be crossing their lane from their left there.

The lanes are not wide enough for a car to go past a bike while staying in lane.

It's bad enough in a car with people drifting across lanes. I've lost count of the amount of near misses I've had with idiots.

goz83

draffodx wrote: »

I've seen pedestrians literally walk straight out in front of moving cars with total disregard for their own safety.

Sure they know if they're hit, they'll be able to inject some sweet, sweet cash into their bank account, courtesy of the motorists insurance.

Roanmore

Walking around Dungarvan today (wouldn't have a fraction of the traffic in Dublin) and I was amazed at the the amount of school kids walking out in front of cars at junctions forcing the cars to stop. It was as if having a school uniform made them immune from getting hit.

Pottler

I think a zero tolerance approach should be taken in light of the horrendous figures. Immediate ban on walking, cycling and motorbiking. It's the only answer.

Chuck Stone

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Better cycle lanes protected with concrete dividers would probably slash the accident rate.

A bit difficult if you want to turn right in that image though.

opti0nal

goz83 wrote: »

Sure they know if they're hit, they'll be able to inject some sweet, sweet cash into their bank account, courtesy of the motorists insurance.

That's because the drivers were found to be blameworthy. Look around you...78% of drivers break urban speed limits. Cell phone use, not stopping on amber, not giving way to pedestrians.....small wonder insurance costs so much.

ThisRegard

This thread, again?

Rocheydub

I fall into all categories. I cycle to work, jog to work, walk to work and often drive... I can assure you all, there are guilty parties on all sides. But some car drivers are utterly ignorant of cyclists, and "cycle lanes" are in very poor condition throughout the city of Dublin...

I have been 'hit' 3 times in the last 5 years by vehicles turning left, no indicators on, and turning in on top of me...

I use the term 'hit' very loosely, I haven't been injured once, but have had massive amounts of road rage as a result!!!

Funnily enough, 2 of the incidents mentioned above involved aircoach buses. I find their drivers most ignorant of other road users... Like taxi drivers in the city of a Saturday night!!! The other involved an L driver, maybe 18 years old, on is own in the car, who proceeded to tell me I was in the wrong.... I doubt he'll do it again!!!

Eric Cartman

Rocheydub wrote: »

I fall into all categories. I cycle to work, jog to work, walk to work and often drive... I can assure you all, there are guilty parties on all sides. But some car drivers are utterly ignorant of cyclists, and "cycle lanes" are in very poor condition throughout the city of Dublin...

I have been 'hit' 3 times in the last 5 years by vehicles turning left, no indicators on, and turning in on top of me...

I use the term 'hit' very loosely, I haven't been injured once, but have had massive amounts of road rage as a result!!!

Funnily enough, 2 of the incidents mentioned above involved aircoach buses. I find their drivers most ignorant of other road users... Like taxi drivers in the city of a Saturday night!!! The other involved an L driver, maybe 18 years old, on is own in the car, who proceeded to tell me I was in the wrong.... I doubt he'll do it again!!!

you should never be on the left hand side of a truck or bus where it might turn left, they have a massive blind spot , stay behind or infront but never alongside.

Spook_ie

A lot of this can probably be explained by the phenomenon of taxis not stopping for people hailing them at night, it works very simply

Just because YOU can see the taxi, don't assume the taxi has seen you!



So if you have a reflective whatever, a torch, a lamp stuck on top of your head whatever, then use it!!!! and give every road user a chance to spot you

Colonel Sanders

What I see quite often is a pedestrian stop (not at a pedestrian crossing btw), look at a car coming & then still decide to walk across. If the driver beeps the horn the pedestrian often laughs or sticks their finger up

I was about to post I've twice nearly killed cyclists who've broke through red lights but the reality is twice I've nearly had cyclists kill themselves by breaking red lights & slamming into the side of my car. Both times the cyclist in question has stuck their fingers up at me

Irish Steve

OK, time to add some serious fuel to the controversy.

No it's NOT April 1st, and as far as I'm concerned, this is NOT a joke, far from it.

Change the attitude of the educators.

It STARTS long before bikes, at about the age of 5, when OUR TEACHERS instill into the kids under their control that things like RED LIGHTS AT PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS DONT APPLY TO THEM.

We've all seen it, a long crocodile of school kids, moving from the school to the local church (or similar), and there's maybe one teacher for the entire class. They wait at the crossing for the green man, and then, when half of them are across and the lights start to change, what happens? The TEACHER JUMPS INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD, and encourages the rest of the crocodile to cross against the red man, and when the traffic has a green light.

What subliminal message is that giving to the kids? Several, all of them bad, like, :-

The red stop sign is only optional, it can be ignored and nothing will happen.

The rules don't apply to me, teacher says so.

As long as I wave my hands enough, vehicles will stop for me, teacher showed me how it works.

Some of the school crossing patrols don't help in that respect, some of them seem to have a death wish, and jump off the kerb at the last possible second, leaving very lttle time to stop, let alone do so in a gentle manner.

So, our young children move on to bikes, and lo and behold, the attitude they learned when at school, when young, impressionable and in either fear or respect of the teacher, now extends to cycling, where the same concept effectively applies.

Stop signs, one way, no entry, give way? They don't apply to me, I'm special, and I can do what I want, teacher told me that I can do things like that when we were going to the church all those times.

If I had my way, kids would have to get off their bikes and walk across roads at all school crossings, especially where there's a warden patrol as well, to reinforce the clear message that roads have to be treated differently to pavements, and cars won't automatically stop for them.

That's even more important where school patrols over ride the lights, stopping traffic when the pedestrian phase has finished and the lights are green for the road.

That is absolutely the wrong time to let young kids ride their bikes across the road, as it's giving them totally the wrong attitude and message for the future.

It's no wonder that kids on foot and cyclists have such a blatant disregard for road rules, they learned them at a very young age from the people that they've been taught to respect, and the pattern is reinforced every time they leave the school in a large group. It's no wonder that accidents happen as much as they do.

Then there's the problem of the yummy mummys that MUST park their chelsea tractors right by the gates so that their little darlings don't have to walk anywhere, regardless of how much they block the road, and the entry or exit. And, too often, they are late either arriving to drop them off, or collect them, so they HAVE to rush to get there. And, of course, if there's an option to park legally 100 metres away, or illegally at the gate, we all know which option will be taken. And we also know how rarely there is any real enforcement of the rules around schools, probably because enforcement would cause even more chaos than is already happening, and also because of the (unjustfied) resentment that proper enforcement would generate. We've all heard it, "But I HAD to park to pick up my kids, and then they give me a ticket for it!" A much better idea would be a total parking ban within 200 metres of school gates at the "critical times" when arriving, but more importantly, when they are leaving.

On our estate, the entrance to the school is about half a mile by road. There's a footpath entrance that's 15o metres away, and then 75 metres across the grounds, and you'd not believe how many parents around us get the car out to take the kids to school, or collect them. It would be quicker and better for all concerned to leave the car at home and walk, but for some reason, that doesn't happen. When I was at primary school, we walked to and from school, nearly 2 miles, and there were no cars to collect us, and we had to allow the time for that to happen. We went on our own, and there were never any serious problems to cause concerns, and it was an urban area. Now, the attitude is that it's "too dangerous" for kids to walk even 200 metres. Has the world really changed that much, or is it an excuse? I do wonder.

And before someone asks, yes, I have had children, or to be pedantic, my wife actually had them, and we've 5 wonderful grandchildren. Our kids walked to school when it was possible, and when it wasn't, because the school was 10 miles away, they were taken there, but they learnt that some of the insanity they saw at the gates and the like was exactly that, and they are now teaching their own children the right rules and ways to behave.

It's interesting that they've not had "incidents" with vehicles, or bikes, that many of their contempories have had, and they have also managed to avoid the sort of accidents with cars that many of their friends seem to have, perhaps because they learned from an early age to respect the damage that vehicles can do, and they learned the right level of respect for the rules that are relevant to the safe relationship with vehicles.

And yes, having had too many very close encounters with cyclists and the like in places and ways that were simply too dangerous for comfort, I do have a bee in my bonnet about this subject, simply because I have no desire to kill some stoopid eejit that insists on riding the wrong way down a one way street at night while wearing dark clothing and with no lights on the bike. in the pouring rain.

I came very close to killing one a good few years ago when coming off the City quay towards Lombard St, it's a right turn from a one way street on to another one way street, and I missed him by less than 2 inches, more by luck than judgement, and I was doing nothing wrong, yet the cyclist seemed to think it was my fault that I'd nearly killed him.


Controversial? Yeah, too darn true it is. Think about, it, think about your own experiences, and think about how kids are taught to respect, or disrespect the basic rules of the road.

I think it's time for a change, from the top down, and maybe then, there would be some serious reductions in the problem.

Mr Simpson

dudara wrote: »

The single best thing that they could do would be to ticket and fine people heavily for parking in cycle lanes.

They'd have to make it illegal first, stupidly enough afaik cars can park in dotted line cycle lanes (which seems to be most of them).

awec

This post has been deleted.

Mr Simpson

awec wrote: »

I'm guessing that's because the dotted line ones are optional cycle lanes and the cyclist can just cycle on the road instead.

Dedicated cycle lanes are a waste of time and money. Just make the road wider.

I'm pretty sure if a cycle lane is there, a cyclist must use it. However a car may drive in a dotted line cycle lane

Yep, I just checked, they must use it, however the Government is in the process of revoking the law (infact it may have been done already, but only very recently)

awec

This post has been deleted.

opti0nal

awec wrote: »

Soon all lanes will be optional. They are redundant as they are not safe and put cyclists at increased risk.

Unfortunately, making cycle tracks optional will help the city council avoid liability where the track is defective but leave cyclists open to blame for not using one.

Another source of risk is motorcyclists, already illegally using bus lanes, swinging into cycle tracks without looking.

Mycroft H

opti0nal wrote: »

awec wrote: »

Soon all lanes will be optional. They are redundant as they are not safe and put cyclists at increased risk.

Unfortunately, making cycle tracks optional will help the city council avoid liability where the track is defective but leave cyclists open to blame for not using one.

Another source of risk is motorcyclists, already illegally using bus lanes, swinging into cycle tracks without looking.

If there not mandatory, a court could never find a cyclist negligent for not using them. The law is black and white. (or will be hopefully)

John_Rambo

ShadowHearth wrote: »

but **** me, if I drove only twice in Dublin for the last 7 years and the only thing that scared me ****lessly were careless bicycle drivers then I presume there is something wrong in that part of road users

Not sure what's wrong with you, inexperience, lack of awareness or just bad driving, but I never have any hassle with cyclists when driving in Dublin, I see bad driving from all road users, but I don't have close calls like you all the time. I have had a few accidents on the bike and they were all car drivers fault, one a hit and run. As the report says, Dublin is one of the safest cities for driving in the EU so you may need to look at your driving style, are you aggressive or do you drive very fast?

blackwhite

terrydel wrote: »

.....
The impression I get from many is that they expect others to ensure they arent killed or injured, its not their job to ensure that themselves......

Driving along Shelbourne Road last night at 9pm, I came up behind a cyclist wearing all black, with no lights on the bike. Because of traffic parked on the opposite side of the road it wasn't safe to pass him , and I followed him up to the lights where I was turning right, and pulled alongside him.
Rolled down the window and told him that I could barely see him, and if he was going to be wearing all-black then maybe some lights would be a good idea.
The response.......... "F*ck off and mind your own business."

Sums up the attitude that a sizable minority of cyclists seem to have to the safety of both themselves and other road users.

djimi

Just once Id love to see the RSA run a campaign aimed at cyclist/motorbikes/pedestrians along the lines of "in an accident with a car being in the right is not going to keep you alive; take responsbility for your own safety". Im not saying that they shoudnt be targetting car drivers because obviously they have a large responsibility to the safety of everyone on the road, but the message has to be put out there that ultimately everyone is responisble for their own safety. There are an awful lot of cyclist/motorbikes/pedestrians who put themselves in situations where they may technically be in the right, but will come off worse every time, and it is usually down to their own arrogance (the "Im in the right" attitude) or stupidity (not knowing/caring about the rules of the road).

SerialComplaint

blackwhite wrote: »

Driving along Shelbourne Road last night at 9pm, I came up behind a cyclist wearing all black, with no lights on the bike. Because of traffic parked on the opposite side of the road it wasn't safe to pass him , and I followed him up to the lights where I was turning right, and pulled alongside him.
Rolled down the window and told him that I could barely see him, and if he was going to be wearing all-black then maybe some lights would be a good idea.
The response.......... "F*ck off and mind your own business."

Sums up the attitude that a sizable minority of cyclists seem to have to the safety of both themselves and other road users.

You were right to tell him. And despite his bravado response, when he hears the same message from five or ten people, it might start sinking into his small brain.

Supergurrier

blackwhite wrote: »

Driving along Shelbourne Road last night at 9pm, I came up behind a cyclist wearing all black, with no lights on the bike. Because of traffic parked on the opposite side of the road it wasn't safe to pass him , and I followed him up to the lights where I was turning right, and pulled alongside him.
Rolled down the window and told him that I could barely see him, and if he was going to be wearing all-black then maybe some lights would be a good idea.
The response.......... "F*ck off and mind your own business."

Sums up the attitude that a sizable minority of cyclists seem to have to the safety of both themselves and other road users.

I see this all the time, it's ridiculous, even met a jogger in all black on a bend with no reflective gear, pure insatity

Cienciano

blackwhite wrote: »

Driving along Shelbourne Road last night at 9pm, I came up behind a cyclist wearing all black, with no lights on the bike. Because of traffic parked on the opposite side of the road it wasn't safe to pass him , and I followed him up to the lights where I was turning right, and pulled alongside him.
Rolled down the window and told him that I could barely see him, and if he was going to be wearing all-black then maybe some lights would be a good idea.
The response.......... "F*ck off and mind your own business."

Sums up the attitude that a sizable minority of cyclists seem to have to the safety of both themselves and other road users.

I drove from Bluebell to Goatstown a week ago at about 10pm with the wife, it actually became a running joke along the way to point out cyclists without lights. We stopped counting at around 12. My mate from Germany said you'd barely make it down the street over there without getting stopped for cycling with no lights, here you know you won't be stopped.
We have all the laws in place here, they're just not enforced, making new laws won't make a difference.

blackwhite

SerialComplaint wrote: »

You were right to tell him. And despite his bravado response, when he hears the same message from five or ten people, it might start sinking into his small brain.

That's all I can hope.

I cycle during the winter to keep fitness ticking over in the football off-season. If there's even a possibility that I'll be out after twilight kicks in I'll have the lights with me, and my reflective rain-jacket.

Too many cyclists seem to forget that they are the primary person responsible for their own safety. I have to drive to work due to a combination of distance and a lack of shower facilities in the office (i.e. it's far enough that I couldn't cycle in the suit, and would have worked up enough of a sweat to need a shower:D!!) and passing through Ballsbridge every morning I an guaranteed to see at least 2 cyclists breaking the lights at the Anglesea Rd, despite traffic turning across into it. Somebody will eventually get hurt there, and they'll only have themselves to blame.

Heroditas

Will we have Owen Keegan on George Hook's show tonight declaring how he'll make Dun Laoghaire a safer place for cyclists and pedestrians with the addition of yet more speed ramps and traffic lights?

SerialComplaint

Cienciano wrote: »

I drove from Bluebell to Goatstown a week ago at about 10pm with the wife, it actually became a running joke along the way to point out cyclists without lights. We stopped counting at around 12. My mate from Germany said you'd barely make it down the street over there without getting stopped for cycling with no lights, here you know you won't be stopped.
We have all the laws in place here, they're just not enforced, making new laws won't make a difference.

You might try counting the number of drivers on their phone over the same journey? Or the number of speeding drivers? Or the number of drivers who don't how what indicators are for?

djimi

SerialComplaint wrote: »

You might try counting the number of drivers on their phone over the same journey? Or the number of speeding drivers? Or the number of drivers who don't how what indicators are for?

Two wrongs dont make a right. A driver on their phone does not make a cyclist with a death wish any less stupid. Its my view that cyclists, pedestrians and motorbikes need to do everything in their power to take responsibilty for their own safety, regardless of what other road users may be doing. Its my experience that too many two wheeled/legged road users are far too flippant about their own safety, and seem far too concerned with the other drivers being in the wrong and them being in the right, when they should be more concerned about them being alive...

blackwhite

SerialComplaint wrote: »

You might try counting the number of drivers on their phone over the same journey? Or the number of speeding drivers? Or the number of drivers who don't how what indicators are for?

To be fair, is this not the sort of attitude that causes so many of our problems on the road?

"Everyone else is doing something stupid, so me doing something stupid is perfectly fine"

Anytime anything mildly critical of poor cycling behaviour is posted there is a predictable chorus of "drivers do this, that and the other".

Whataboutery doesn't make your mistakes/bad habits any better.

When I cycle (as when I drive), I try to obey the rules of the road, try to be courteous and considerate to other road users, and I do my utmost to look after my own safety.
When I do something stupid, make a mistake, or break one of the rules of the road (which happens from time to time on both bike and car), I don't try to justify it by thinking to myself "it's ok, there's somebody changing lanes on the M50 without indicating right now, so I'm ok to break the speed limit."

Every road user (no matter how good or bad) should be always trying to find ways to improve their driving/cycling. Responding to criticism with aggression, or by pointing at someone else unrelated to YOUR mistakes is just a sign of a bad driver/cyclist.

daenerysstormborn3

boiledsweets wrote: »

with bikes and motorbikes by the nature of them,you only(in a car or even worse a lorry with bad mirroring)see them at the last possible second,people on bikes and cyclists should proceed with caution when coming up along side a car or even worse a lorry,they should go that bit slower so we can spot them on time.

Having said that im sure there are a few dickhead drivers too,and we cant say all car drivers are perfect either,thats not what im saying..

Nothing appears out of nowhere. If you are taking correct mirror observations and aware of your surroundings at all times then you will be aware of a motorbike approaching you long before it is "coming up alongside a car or even worse a lorry" so it shouldn't ever surprise you on the rare occasion when you bother to check your blindspot and find a motorbike there. Motorbikes tend to be quite noisy (loud pipes save lives) so if you don't see them you should be able to hear them.

"They should go that bit slower so we can spot them on time" - you need to look to see, if you're not looking for a motorbike/bicycle/pedestrian you're not going to "spot" them anyway.

The biggest mistake most car drivers (and drivers of bigger vehicles) make is that they only look for vehicles the same size as theirs, if they don't see a car/jeep/bus coming they assume the way is clear.