A man trapped in an unhappy/unloving marriage

hash for cash

Hi guys,

Looking for some advice. My brother married his wife 2 years ago against all his families better judgement. He wouldn't listen to any of us that she was totally wrong for him and now he is miserabe and we are very worried about him.

He is a very genuine guy, could have had anyone he wanted and went for one of the most horrible, selfish people I have ever had the misfortune of meeting.

She treats him like ****, speaks down to him all the time, gives him dirty looks when he says something to any of us. There is no love in the relationship at all.

He owned his business but lost it due to the recession, he would have survived apart from the money they are hemorraging due to the gigantic mortgage she took out in 2007 on her own. They met a year after she had bought the house and he has been paying half ever since because she knew he had savings. Even though she has a very good job and works ridiculously long hours she has taken a huge cut in income. She went back to work 6 weeks after they had their baby girl in May of this year.

The really annoying thing is, is that he always knew she never wanted children, couldn't stand them, hated other peoples kids etc and he's the complete opposite, she only agreed to that baby because we all feel that she knew she would lose him if she didn't. We were all hoping that it would be the thing to break them up but when we found out she was pregnant we were gobsmacked. She spends very little time with the baby, he is home all day everyday looking after her. He never goes out, she goes out on the weekend because 'shes been working all week' but she never lets him out.

I won't go into too much more detail but basically I would like to hear from anyone who has been in anything similiar to the above situation and has come out the other side and would like to give me any advice on how to deal with this. Myself, my 2 other brothers and our parents feel that if we could just get him and the baby away from the house for a while in a place where we can help him, support him, give him the opportunity to see how easier things would be without her then it might give him a chance.

Even though it is a blessing at this stage that he has realised he is in a dreadful relationship he insists there is nothing he can do to get out of it. That he has no income, he can't support the child on his own, that he has nowhere to go etc...but that's all crap, he has his family. It is just so frustrating to see him suffering. He is still young and has a chance at happiness and meeting someone who will appreciate him.

If anyone can offer any help/information it would be much appreicated. Thank you. T.

Dravokivich

You may be able to get some solid advice in the relationship issues forum:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1174

Read over their charter. There's some links with websites that would have some info that may be handy as well.

aujopimur

He's a big boy, you're a bunch of interferers, mind your own business.
When he's ready for a change I'm sure he'll know where to get advice.

cyrusdvirus

aujopimur wrote: »

He's a big boy, you're a bunch of interferers, mind your own business.
When he's ready for a change I'm sure he'll know where to get advice.

you could probably have phrased that a wee bit better....

We all know that love is blind and makes you do silly things. Look at that teacher in the UK who absconded to France with a student?

Littlehorny

A cousin of mine stayed with a right nasty bully of a woman for about twenty years, they have split up now but he is still under her control. He is back in his mothers while she takes every penny of his wages off him on a joint account. She lives in a lovely 4 bed bungalow that he built on his family land and drives a nice car and is always having trips away, even though she has never worked in all her adult life. He cant even afford a couple of pints at the weekend cause she takes everything.
He thinks he is doing the right thing because they had a couple of kids but even though he is right to look after his children, his ex is no longer his responsibilty. The poor guy is miserable and after doing the right thing all his life he is left with nothing. We said the same thing as you op when my cousin started seeing this girl in his early twentys, could not understand what he say in her and my advice to your brother is get out before he spends his whole life miserable, as the saying goes short term pain for long term gain. Hope all goes well for him.

brno

if he leaves her the court will take his child and more than half his money.even if she is a terrible mother in ireland the mother always gets the child.worth keeping this in mind

vicwatson

There is no love in the relationship at all.

Perhaps he loves her?

the_syco

aujopimur wrote: »

He's a big boy, you're a bunch of interferers, mind your own business.
When he's ready for a change I'm sure he'll know where to get advice.

The light at the end of the tunnel is a train.

OP: ensure you let him know that you're there to help, as him feeling like he has no options is never a good thing.

brno wrote: »

if he leaves her the court will take his child and more than half his money.even if she is a terrible mother in ireland the mother always gets the child.worth keeping this in mind

Although the mother always gets the child, I'm thinking in this case the mother will still give the child to the OP's brother as she won't look after it herself.

hash for cash

the_syco wrote: »

The light at the end of the tunnel is a train.

OP: ensure you let him know that you're there to help, as him feeling like he has no options is never a good thing.


Although the mother always gets the child, I'm thinking in this case the mother will still give the child to the OP's brother as she won't look after it herself.

Thanks, this is EXACTLY what would happen. I never saw anyone as cold hearted with her own baby in my life....you never see her holding her or cuddling her, nothing...she always tells him that shes crying or needs feeding or changing etc...that she's tired and has been at work all day and more or less tells him that this is what he wanted not her so get on with it.

And with reference to the poster above, we are not interferers at all by any standards. We are always polite to her, try and help him out WHEN HE asks for help. We completely keep our distance from their home. I do resent that comment as we don't interfere at all, we spent alot of time 'hoping for the best' without saying much until he married her. We all went to wedding and smiled for photographs for him, so no, you are incorrect there, we are only guilty of caring for his future happiness.

Thanks also to the first poster, I will take a look at that link.

Starokan

Its good that you care so deeply about your brother but the reality is that only he can change this situation. Have you any indication that he really wants to get out, he may not be happy with some of what is happening but its a huge leap to leaving her.

It sounds to me like its probably tough on both of them, they have lost a huge chunk of their respective incomes each and life is now pretty rough as a result. I can empathise with him as I lost my job and for a good while I was living just day to day with mounting bills. Its serious pressure, but their is also pressure from her side in that she is working and by sounds of it at end of week the money is eaten up by expenses etc. That can be quiet demoralising too .

I would say be there for him if he needs you , be supportive but dont be negative, families can have a skewed perspective of whats really going on based on their natural inclination towards their own loved one. One thing is for sure he loved her enough to marry her, have a child with her etc so there is a good chance there is something good between them beyond what everyone sees

Piliger

I am happy you care, OP. But my advice is to stay close to him. Stay talking to him. Stay out of his business unless he asks.

Munstermissy

Littlehorny wrote: »

A cousin of mine stayed with a right nasty bully of a woman for about twenty years, they have split up now but he is still under her control. He is back in his mothers while she takes every penny of his wages off him on a joint account. She lives in a lovely 4 bed bungalow that he built on his family land and drives a nice car and is always having trips away, even though she has never worked in all her adult life. He cant even afford a couple of pints at the weekend cause she takes everything.
He thinks he is doing the right thing because they had a couple of kids but even though he is right to look after his children, his ex is no longer his responsibilty. The poor guy is miserable and after doing the right thing all his life he is left with nothing. We said the same thing as you op when my cousin started seeing this girl in his early twentys, could not understand what he say in her and my advice to your brother is get out before he spends his whole life miserable, as the saying goes short term pain for long term gain. Hope all goes well for him.

My first thought would be for him to stop paying into the joint account and then take himself off to a solicitor quick sharp. Fair enough he wants to provide for his children but that doesn't mean that he has to hand over all his moola.

juan.kerr

hash for cash wrote: »

but she never lets him out.

Probably not very constructive, but he needs to grow a pair. He's an adult not a child or a pet.

sam34

moved from tgc to pi. please note the pi charter applies from here onwards

Littlehorny

Munstermissy wrote: »

My first thought would be for him to stop paying into the joint account and then take himself off to a solicitor quick sharp. Fair enough he wants to provide for his children but that doesn't mean that he has to hand over all his moola.

He won't do it, too soft of a lad. I asked him to come to a stag do one night and told him i'd give him a few quid and he still wouldnt do it cause his ex would go mental and she wants rid of the kids for the weekends so she can go out. He just has himself convinced its best for all involved to just keep the peace.
As other posters said all you can do is support your relative and hope they can work it out for themselves.

Ellsbells

hash for cash wrote: »

They met a year after she had bought the house

Do they live in 'her' house?

hash for cash wrote: »

Even though she has a very good job and works ridiculously long hours she has taken a huge cut in income.

Doesnt sound blissful to me. Is that to keep the bills paid and the family going.

hash for cash wrote: »

She went back to work 6 weeks after they had their baby girl in May of this year.

god love her...

hash for cash wrote: »

he always knew she never wanted children, couldn't stand them, hated other peoples kids etc ..... she only agreed to that baby because we all feel that she knew she would lose him if she didn't.

so she felt like she had to have kids to keep him and he, knowing this, was happy nonethe less. I feel sorry for the girl that she was forced to have a baby

hash for cash wrote: »

little time with the baby, he is home all day everyday looking after her. He never goes out, she goes out on the weekend because 'shes been working all week'

he doesnt work so why wouldnt he mind the baby???? He wanted the baby so its only fair he minds her.

hash for cash wrote: »

she never lets him out.

Really?

Morag

get him a copy of this
http://www.amazon.com/Venus-Dark-Side-Roy-Sheppard/dp/190153412X


It can take a long time for any person to admit they are in an abusive relationship.
It can often take men longer.
Get him a copy of that book which the founder of Amen.ie co wrote and it may help.

username123

Op - you are talking about your brother as though he is a child who was made to do things instead of an adult who made his own decisions. You also talk about his wife in derogatory terms. How you speak about him and his wife does not come across well and almost seems as though you want to split them up because you didnt like her in the beginning. Personally I would be disgusted if any family member of mine was speaking about me or my spouse in such terms.

I think, based on your post, you need to emotionally distance yourself from this families business, but at the same time provide support for your brother - if he asks for it. So let him know you are there for him, but stop being so emotionally attached to the situation yourselves. Dont offer him solutions, be there to listen to him, but allow him to make his own decisions. There is a fine line between helping someone and interfering in their marriage. I would also add that no one knows what goes on behind closed doors in a relationship except the 2 people in the relationship and making assumptions on what you think is happening is probably a bad idea.

Gary The Gamer

Leave him at it. It's his life and if he wants to make it a miserable one then good luck to him.

strandroad

It sounds like plenty of couples in today's Ireland TBH, only with genders reversed. He is working hard and burdened with financial responsibility, has no energy to play with children when he's finally at home, dreaming about his weekend pint, dodging letters from the bank. She is stuck at home minding kids, cooking and cleaning, depressed about lack of work or career, no money for anything special, husband out all day. Now switch roles and you have your brother and his wife - it's not great, but it's not the end of the world either. People get through it. How do you know if there is or there isn't love between them? How do you know it's not only external circumstances that make them unhappy?

Offer your brother help or company if he needs them but stay out of his affairs, just make sure you're there for him should anything happen. It looks like what they need now is a couple of counselling sessions to learn how to cope together and not separately.

ongarboy

OP, your brother is an adult and should be able to make his own decisions. You have described him as someone who facilitates a lot of the unpleasant circumstances (ie not going to the stag because his OH would go mad) so he does have some input/control on how bearable or satisfactory things can be if he was assertive enough. However, this is his problem and not yours so unless he actively seeks your input and advice on how to change things, I would stay out of his affairs and just be there for him when he asks.

TBH, I do pick up a bit of bias and general dislike from you against his OH which I can't help thinking is clouding your judgement on her. Unless you are the man trapped in the unhappy or unloving marriage as per your thread title, then I can't see how this is your "Personal Issue".

FrogMarch

aujopimur wrote: »

He's a big boy, you're a bunch of interferers, mind your own business.
When he's ready for a change I'm sure he'll know where to get advice.

This is a man in an abusive relationship. People are entirely entitled to give their opinions. If it was a woman in this situation, would your response be the same?

Ellsbells

How exactly is he in an abudive relationship? He forced her to have kids ?!?!

FrogMarch

Ellsbells wrote: »

How exactly is he in an abudive relationship? He forced her to have kids ?!?!

FYI

She treats him like ****, speaks down to him all the time, gives him dirty looks when he says something to any of us. There is no love in the relationship at all.

Ellsbells

The man is not on posting here its s family member who seems to want them up fail. Loss of a business, a pressurised job, financial problems and a new baby will all cause pressure. On top of that he was going to leave her if she didn't have a baby (they they could not afford) and she had to go back to work to provide for the family just 6 weeks after the naby was born. Hardly surprising she didn't have time to bond with the baby.

Esoteric_

OP, I really think you and your family need to back off a bit. I totally understand that you do not like your brother's partner, but he chose her, it's his life, not yours.

At the end of the day, I'd give the same advice here as I'd give to a woman in an abusive relationship (I am NOT saying your bother is in an abusive relationship, I don't think there's enough information to come to that conclusion) - don't force him to leave. There is very, very little you can do until your brother decides for himself that he has had enough and wants to leave.

Until that day comes, just be a support for him if he needs to talk. If you're constantly telling him to leave, or badmouthing his partner, that will just serve to make him defensive and could alienate him from the family as he will not be as willing to seek help if he feels he is only going to have his life scrutinised and judged.

All in all, OP, leave well alone until the day your brother specifically asks for help. He's a grown man and can make his own decisions.

aujopimur

FrogMarch wrote: »

This is a man in an abusive relationship. People are entirely entitled to give their opinions. If it was a woman in this situation, would your response be the same?

Yes, and I'm speaking from experience on all sides.

Ickle Magoo

FrogMarch wrote: »

If it was a woman in this situation, would your response be the same?

While this thread began in tGC, it has been moved to PI and will be moderated in accordance with the PI charter.

Please note PI is strictly moderated and we expect all advice to be civil, mature and constructive for the OP. Quizzing other posters on their responses to a thread/issue that has not been presented by the OP is not helpful OR on-topic.

Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If you haven’t done so already, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter before posting again.

Many thanks.


As per site policy, if you have an issue with any moderator instruction or request please contact a relevant moderator via PM - DO NOT drag the thread further off-topic by responding on-thread

The Corinthian

hash for cash wrote: »

If anyone can offer any help/information it would be much appreicated. Thank you. T.

These are the reported facts, from what I have read, and so my own extrapolated views:

The relationship does appear to be quite emotionally abusive at this stage.

He married in the full knowledge of whom he was marrying, with no suggestion of deception or entrapment. He was aware of her mortgage, presumably of her views on parenthood and had even been counselled against marrying her. He's an adult and he did make his own bed, to a great extend.

That he is paying into her mortgage is perfectly understandable. If it is the family home then they both own it now automatically. If not, he still has an automatic legal claim to part of the property (and a strong one if he is paying towards the mortgage). Additionally, his savings are no longer his own as they too are essentially shared - legally, there is no 'I' in marriage.

She made a sacrifice to have a child for him. She did not want to have children - he did. As such, and given his business went under and he is presumably unemployed, then not only does it make sense that he remains at home to take care of the child and home, due to his lack of employment, but as even more-so as the child was principally his desire, not hers.

Overall, I believe his wife is likely under tremendous stress and pressure financially. She's carrying the whole family at present (from what I can make out) and it's not unusual for someone in that situation to resent the partner who stays at home. Added to this is the fact that we're less used to a man in that role and more likely to see him as a parasite than a woman doing the same thing.

I would suggest that he gets his wife to go to couples counselling so she can work through her resentments and he through his own, that are undoubtedly building up. Especially in recessions, relationships can go through serious stresses, and these are better off not left alone to build up, because sooner or later they will explode.

The Princess Bride

OP- it is wonderful that he has the support of you all on this.
However,he is the only one who can walk in his shoes and only he can decide what he wants to/should do.
Perhaps he should seek professional advice at this stage?

Continue to listen,but the rest is up to him.
Best of luck.

jdsk2006

Hi Op, I know you think (along with your family) that your perception of what is going on within your brothers marraige is absolutly accurate but im replying here cos I feel ye are way off the mark.
Ellsbells nutshelled a whole other possibility/probability for you there. It is painfully obvious to me from just reading your post that you and the rest of the family despised this girl long before today. Now Iv seen families conduct themselves in this manner a few times before and let me just warn you that it never ends well - this type of behaviour is destructive and toxic and only serves to shred families to pieces. I bet my last cent that she is under no illusions as to what you guys think of her.......a woman is very intuitive. Of course she resents anything he says around ye, her inlaws are trying to pull her family apart!!!!!!!! Seriously, I feel like screaming at my PC right now!!!!!! And my guess is that you guys are the butt of your brothers unhappiness...........god above it would get me right down in the dumps too if I went to visit my folks and have to put up with such negativity towards my husband. They are a young couple, stressed on the cusp of a recession, adjusting to parenthood and lacking support from extended family - naturally there will be symptoms of this. I too agree they may need a little therapy to get back some focus and teamwork. If your brother was a friend of mine Id advise him to man up to his family, distance himself from ye, thicken up his skin and take control of his family.

maybe her family have plenty to say about your brother op????

FlexPlexico

Ive been in this situation, there is nothing anyone can do unless he decides to leave !

Payton

Hi OP, as other posters have pointed out its your brothers and partners problem. Stay out of it!
He needs to "man up" to what's going on and deal with it.
There is nothing worse than interfering family members telling him how to lead his life. He needs to decide what HE wants and how HE is going to deal with HIS future. By all means be an ear for him but don't throw your personal opions into what seems to be a very tramatic time for your brother and his wife.
There are kids involved here, they above all should be priority.
By the sounds of things (only one side of the story) he needs mediation or legal advice, not family advice.
All the best.

bef

Payton wrote: »

Hi OP, as other posters have pointed out its your brothers and partners problem. Stay out of it!
He needs to "man up" to what's going on and deal with it.
There is nothing worse than interfering family members telling him how to lead his life. He needs to decide what HE wants and how HE is going to deal with HIS future. By all means be an ear for him but don't throw your personal opions into what seems to be a very tramatic time for your brother and his wife.
There are kids involved here, they above all should be priority.
By the sounds of things (only one side of the story) he needs mediation or legal advice, not family advice.
All the best.

and if hes looking for help Accord are good been to them myself theyre free also look them up online,could be very beneficial (if they want help)

FrogMarch

Payton wrote: »

Hi OP, as other posters have pointed out its your brothers and partners problem. Stay out of it!

If he's being emotionally abused then why would the OP stay out of it? If you had a sister who was being physically abused in her marriage, would you 'stay out of it'?

Now I'm only taking the OP's version of events at face value here but I think it's about time that society started to realise the dangers of emotional and psychological abuse in interpersonal relationships and stopped assuming that abuse is always physical and inflicted on women by men.

OP - if you feel your brother's wife is being abusive towards him, you have every right to intervene IMO. Having been in a very abusive relationship with a personality disordered woman for several years, I would have, from hindsight, really appreciated my family supporting me.

a posse ad esse

FrogMarch wrote: »

If he's being emotionally abused then why would the OP stay out of it? If you had a sister who was being physically abused in her marriage, would you 'stay out of it'?

Now I'm only taking the OP's version of events at face value here but I think it's about time that society started to realise the dangers of emotional and psychological abuse in interpersonal relationships and stopped assuming that abuse is always physical and inflicted on women by men.

OP - if you feel your brother's wife is being abusive towards him, you have every right to intervene IMO. Having been in a very abusive relationship with a personality disordered woman for several years, I would have, from hindsight, really appreciated my family supporting me.

I agree with this post and somehow cannot thank it. No one needs to be put in a situation and tolerate any abuse whether physical or emotional whether the victim is male or female. In fact, male victims are more likely than female victims NOT to seek help. We live in a society where many still think that victims in abusive relationships are only females.

The OP is the only one in this entire thread that knows what's really going on. All I can ask is has your brother's behaviour changed much? Has he become more withdrawn or isolating himself from you and the rest of the family?

All you can really do thus far is be there for him and help him out as much as you can. It may encourage him to open up more and then maybe you will be able to find out if something is really wrong.

Payton

In no way am I saying physical/emotional abuse is OK, I've been on the receiving end of both and its horrendous, soul destroying, and can sink you into a state of depression.
Unlike most posts here we are hearing this third hand, The OP's brother. So I'm being mindful that this is the OP's view albeit through his eyes.
As I said that the OP should be there for his brother, but my point is don't go giving your view eg "you should do this, you should say that" by all means be an emotional crutch for him but just be mindful of the OP's input and others input and not to cloud his brothers already messed up situation. There are organisations and support groups (Checkout the sticky in the Relationship Forum) who would help him, that do fantastic work that I have dealt with them and possibly deal with what the OP's brother is going through.
From personal experience everyone is willing to throw their 2c worth in but very few are willing to listen.

bef

juan.kerr wrote: »

Probably not very constructive, but he needs to grow a pair. He's an adult not a child or a pet.

would he be worried about the child if he did go out seeing as she doesnt seem to want to care for the baby,not normal

Seanchai

vicwatson wrote: »

Perhaps he loves her?

Or perhaps she turns him on? We don't know, but the fact is that plenty of people are in relationships with people for the most basic of reasons, many of which have to do with sexual turn-on.

Decent men and decent women get stuck with bitches/bastards because it does it for them. Simple. They are not powerless. They just sacrifice a healthy relationship in exchange for being turned on.

There is no rational reason why a person cannot walk away from another. Money comes and goes and it would not stop anybody with a medium-long term perspective from leaving. If they are not walking, they evidently figure on balance they are better off in that relationship.

In summary, therefore, I'd stay out of a relationship between any adult couple, and only help when asked (even then I'd be very reticent about talking in case they make up and your words are remembered)

Distorted

You sound very unempathetic and one sided and against "outsiders" to your family. Do you have any idea what it must have been like for this woman to have been financially forced to go back to work six weeks after having her first child, to pay a huge mortgage on her own, to provide a house for her unemployed husband to live in? And to have to deal with his snooty, unsympathetic family who do nothing but look down on her attempts to keep her family financially afloat, while attempting to break up her family and possibly steal her child away from her?

You should never interfere in other people's relationships, unless it involves minors or the most blatant ill treatment. Your assertsions of "abuse" are simply guesswork. What isn't guesswork is that your brother is unemployed, living in this woman's house quite likely free of charage and has a wife who works long hours to provide food for the table.

Aside from that, your brother is a grown adult. He is capable of making his own decisions, and tbh he seems to be doing quite well out of the marriage so far...

shantolog

Distorted wrote: »

You sound very unempathetic and one sided and against "outsiders" to your family. Do you have any idea what it must have been like for this woman to have been financially forced to go back to work six weeks after having her first child, to pay a huge mortgage on her own, to provide a house for her unemployed husband to live in? And to have to deal with his snooty, unsympathetic family who do nothing but look down on her attempts to keep her family financially afloat, while attempting to break up her family and possibly steal her child away from her?

You should never interfere in other people's relationships, unless it involves minors or the most blatant ill treatment. Your assertsions of "abuse" are simply guesswork. What isn't guesswork is that your brother is unemployed, living in this woman's house quite likely free of charage and has a wife who works long hours to provide food for the table.

Aside from that, your brother is a grown adult. He is capable of making his own decisions, and tbh he seems to be doing quite well out of the marriage so far...

To be frank it seems like you may have missed a few key pieces of information from the original post, so I will quote them for you;

As regards to the mortgage:

Distorted wrote: »

Do you have any idea what it must have been like for this woman to have been financially forced to go back to work six weeks after having her first child, to pay a huge mortgage on her own, to provide a house for her unemployed husband to live in?

I think this should answer that question:

hash for cash wrote: »

He owned his business but lost it due to the recession, he would have survived apart from the money they are hemorraging due to the gigantic mortgage she took out in 2007 on her own. They met a year after she had bought the house and he has been paying half ever since because she knew he had savings

He is paying half a mortgage he had NO part in getting, and paying it from his savings no less, I don't see how that could be interpreted as having a house provided to you by your wife. Also the use of the word "unemployed" in your statement, in my opinion, is used in an unfairly pejorative manor, although if this is not intended I apologise.

In regards to the child:

Distorted wrote: »

...while attempting to break up her family and possibly steal her child away from her?

You should never interfere in other people's relationships, unless it involves minors or the most blatant ill treatment...

I think I would be correct in saying that she doesn't even want the child, and only had the baby to keep her relationship with the man in question intact, what type of a proper mother is that?

hash for cash wrote: »

The really annoying thing is, is that he always knew she never wanted children, couldn't stand them, hated other peoples kids etc and he's the complete opposite, she only agreed to that baby because we all feel that she knew she would lose him if she didn't... She spends very little time with the baby, he is home all day everyday looking after her

hash for cash wrote: »

... I never saw anyone as cold hearted with her own baby in my life....you never see her holding her or cuddling her, nothing...she always tells him that shes crying or needs feeding or changing etc...that she's tired and has been at work all day and more or less tells him that this is what he wanted not her so get on with it...

Of course all we have to go on is the OP, and the woman in this story cannot have a say, unless she adds to the thread, so there is no way to tell how accurate this story is. But in my opinion this thread has swung disproportionately into the "it's their relationship so butt out" category, but should a family stop caring about a member because they are an adult?

I think not, adults after all can make the worst of choices despite their better sense,who hasn't? To me this seems like it's neither "butt out it's not your business" or "he needs to leave" scenario, a lot of people involved needs to change their mindset.

Distorted

shantolog wrote: »

To be frank it seems like you may have missed a few key pieces of information from the original post, so I will quote them for you;

I didn't miss that information. Your perception is that I've missed agreeing with your spin on it, which are different things.

shantolog wrote: »

He is paying half a mortgage he had NO part in getting, and paying it from his savings no less, I don't see how that could be interpreted as having a house provided to you by your wife. Also the use of the word "unemployed" in your statement, in my opinion, is used in an unfairly pejorative manor, although if this is not intended I apologise.

Yes, thats what you do when you get married. You share things. Presumably he didn't have his own house they could move into, so they moved into hers. He is getting a roof over his head in return for his payments. What do you suggest she does otherwise, if she can't sell the property? Give up paying, and go bankrupt? Or go out to work and pay the mortgage, like she is doing?

As for him being unemployed, is there something so special about the members of your family that render them immune from the normal descriptions applied to people in that situation? Does the man currently work for a living or not? If not, he is unemployed. ie he is without paid unemployment. Its a black and white situation. He is in fact a stay-at-home father.

And if he has such a vast amount of savings, to pay what you describe as a vast mortgage for so long, why didn't he use them to save his business? That doesn't make sense.

shantolog wrote: »

In regards to the child:

I think I would be correct in saying that she doesn't even want the child, and only had the baby to keep her relationship with the man in question intact, what type of a proper mother is that?

Again, this is your spin on it, the other interpretation is that she saw it wasn't a good time financially to have a child, but he encouraged her to have one when she did. Sounds like she must really love him. Its a very common scenario and has nothing to do with whether someone is a "proper mother" or not - your spin on it again.

Originally Posted by hash for cash
The really annoying thing is, is that he always knew she never wanted children, couldn't stand them, hated other peoples kids etc and he's the complete opposite, she only agreed to that baby because we all feel that she knew she would lose him if she didn't... She spends very little time with the baby, he is home all day everyday looking after her

Originally Posted by hash for cash
... I never saw anyone as cold hearted with her own baby in my life....you never see her holding her or cuddling her, nothing...she always tells him that shes crying or needs feeding or changing etc...that she's tired and has been at work all day and more or less tells him that this is what he wanted not her so get on with it...


Tends to be what happens when one partner has a job and the other doesn't. You are seriously suggesting that because this woman goes out to work to pay the bills while her husband is unemployed, that makes her a bad mother?? I also know plenty of female friends who say they never want children, etc - some do, some don't. I hardly think the ones that do get constantly reminded of their previous remarks, as if its taken down and noted in evidence against them in some value judgement.

Yes, I suspect she is very tired, because as you say, she works long hours and she had to go back to work to pay those bills only six weeks after giving birth. Do you have any idea how hard that must have been, physically as well as mentally? Perhaps she is so tired she is frustrated that her husband pressurised her into having a child in those circumstances. Perfectly understandable.

I should also say that there are many women (and men) out there who don't come across as Perfect Mother of the Year candidates. To extrapolate from that that they must be bad mothers and their husbands should leave them is ridiculous. My sister-in-law, for instance, behaves in exactly the same way as you describe. She nearly always gets her husband to change nappies, do other tasks with the baby, etc. And she doesn't work! In fact, there are a lot of women out there who simply look for a man to pay their way in the world and who would leave and go back home or start trying to find someone else if they found themselves in the position of having to support the entire family through their job, as your sister-in-law is doing.

shantolog wrote: »

Of course all we have to go on is the OP, and the woman in this story cannot have a say, unless she adds to the thread, so there is no way to tell how accurate this story is. But in my opinion this thread has swung disproportionately into the "it's their relationship so butt out" category, but should a family stop caring about a member because they are an adult?

I think you should support your brother and not interfere and put your own prejudices and imagination into their relataionship. I honestly find the sheer "spin" on what you are writing quite shocking (far more shocking than the supposed "abusive" behaviour on the part of your sister-in-law), it is as if you have overstepped some mark as to what you should and should comment about in another person's relationship, and are unaware that the rest of the world doesn't see things in the same prejudiced light as yourselves.

You have however described perfectly understandable reasons as to why this relationship may be under pressure. But theres no getting away from the fact this woman is carrying the burden of working for the whole family, just after giving birth. I think she deservers a medal! Not criticism, wheres your humanity, for goodness sake?

shantolog wrote: »

I think not, adults after all can make the worst of choices despite their better sense,who hasn't? To me this seems like it's neither "butt out it's not your business" or "he needs to leave" scenario, a lot of people involved needs to change their mindset.

You've described a hard working woman who hasn't walked out on her husband and family despite his unemployment and horrifically unsupportive and critical family. It sounds like a nightmare for her.

I think your family should examine their discomfiture over your brother not working, and stop pretending its something this hard working woman is doing. Alternatively, recognise this is a young family struggling in a harsh economic climate, with a new baby. I doubt you will though, because there seems to be an attitude to interpret innocent things as evil. I have to say I'm honestly really shocked at your posting, but I doubt you will see it that way so you are just going to have to accept that some people in the outside world don't necessarily see things in the way your family do.

FrogMarch

Distorted - your interpretation of what the OP has written is, well, distorted.

If we are to take what the OP has said at face value then really all we can conclude is that both his brother and his brother's child are being emotionally abused.

hash for cash wrote: »

She treats him like ****, speaks down to him all the time, gives him dirty looks when he says something to any of us. There is no love in the relationship at all.

hash for cash wrote: »

I never saw anyone as cold hearted with her own baby in my life....you never see her holding her or cuddling her, nothing...she always tells him that shes crying or needs feeding or changing etc...that she's tired and has been at work all day and more or less tells him that this is what he wanted not her so get on with it.

The saddest thing in all of this is the situation with the child IMO. Kids who are neglected by their primary caregivers often develop personality disorders when they reach adulthood and perpetuate the toxic and abusive cycle of terror on their own families and 'loved' ones.

Ickle Magoo

As multiple perspectives have been covered and the thread is going around in circles with little to no relevant/constructive advice directed towards the OP, I'm locking.

OP, if there is anything else you wish to add/discuss further please PM a PI mod.