Stupid young male drivers: how can we stop them?

Seanchai

So this morning I opened my email to learn that a young friend of our family has just been killed in a road accident. Like so many young guys, he drove like he was invincible, like he'd be young forever. I can only sense acutely the pain he left for his parents' in his wake. Their entire world has collapsed. He defined them and helped make them calmer, more loving people. They grew because of him and what he brought to their world. I just feel so, so, sad for them.

---

Now the anger. Why, why, why must there be so many young men who take stupid risks when driving? Just last Sunday morning a car with 3 or 4 guys in their early 20s forced me off the road because they came speeding over a rural bridge, lost control and I had to swerve into the grass. Bastards. Stupid, stupid, stupid bastards, no doubt still under the influence of some drug from the night before. I couldn't believe it. I just looked at them and I was staring at future road death statistics, and for the first time in my life afraid the people in the car I was driving would also become statistics if I didn't act quickly. These idiot young male drivers seem to have no developed consciousness of the value of life, or of the value of families and couples in other cars and how much a single death ripples through homes and communities causing untold suffering and heartache. These clowns look down on the rest of us because we don't take the risks they take, as if there's no middle ground between a granny driving a Nissan Micra and a boyracer driving a pumped-up Honda Civic. In my early 20s, these emotionally challenged, desensitised male drivers were the cause of the high cost of my car insurance. Now they are threatening the life I've worked hard to develop in the intervening years. Clearly, not all young males are reckless idiots, but the vast majority of reckless idiots on our roads are young males.

What can this society do to rid itself of this boy racer culture on our roads?

smash

It's nothing really to do with driving. It's a male thing in general. Boys climb walls, trees, like guns etc etc. Males take more risks, it's built into us

mikemac1

Seanchai wrote: »

What can this society do to rid itself of this boy racer culture on our roads?

The lack of high paying labouring jobs on building sites and emigration has done a lot already

Very few on the roads now compared to five years ago

School leavers just don't have the money to spend thousands on their cars

Days of quitting school in 5th year to pull several hundred a week on a site are gone

dave1982

Installing restricter in learner drivers car's.

Sorry to hear your news OP

squod

dave1982 wrote: »

Installing restricter in learner drivers car's.

Disagree. Fully intend putting my kids in a big volvo when they choose to drive.

Wanderer2010

I couldnt agree more with your post. Of course there are lots of responsible young male drivers but a huge, huge number of them, when they have fellow male drivers in the car with them, feel the need to puff out their chest and show how cool/dominant/risky they are. Its the willy waving that goes on between most young men but sadly using a deadly vehicle for this purpose leaves a lot of death in their wake. I can only assume that they either dont read papers/watch the news regarding safety on the roads or else they do and they use this to spur them on even more, who knows.

Other male boards users, answer me this- does a speedy/risky male driver actually impress you and make you like them more? Im not trying to patronise, Im genuinely interested in whether you think speeding, swerving etc impresses you or do you get caught up with going along with the crowd? Also, young female members, again if your boyfriend acted like this does he go up in your impression?

OP, I think much longer sentences for drivers who cause death by dangerous driving, more spot checks of young male drivers for drink and drugs and a wider campaign in cinema tv etc may, just MAY improve the situation a bit.

Hannibal Smith

Sorry to hear about your friend op.

I don't know what can be done. To say they're male so its inbuilt is ridiculous. They're just stupid stupid people who will gladly kill themselves, their mates and anyone else on the road because they're too stupid to drive properly.

One thing that needs to be addressed is driving licenses. You're disqualified for 2 years and after that (or sometimes before if your solicitor is any good) you just reapply for your license, end of. You should have to re take your test and no driving till you pass it. And that should include those muppets who drive while on the phone.

Daveysil15

You can't tar an entire demographic with the same brush. I've seen some shocking driving from older male drivers too. There's not much of a boy racer culture nowadays. I rarely see the modified cars on the road anymore.

A better question would be how can this society rid itself of bad driving?

bbam

It's definitely inbuilt into the male being to take risks.
And not necessary to show off to anyone. In my day I was a fast driver, took many risks, crashed cars, but it was usually when I was in the car alone. I drove far more sensibly with others in the car.

I doubt there is anything you can do to reduce this, stamping out drink and drugged driving would be the priority. Then your just left with testosterone fuelled kicks.

Roadtrippin

You can't... They have taken over the planet's roads and will not release them!

No, but seriously, I think I read before somewhere that neurological research revealed that men, particularly young men of a certain age, are more likely to have 'boy racer brain'
It has something to do with the testosterone's effect on the male brain etc. Will try to find the reference somewhere for you.

What can society do?
Harsher punishment for speeding, dont buy a potential boy racer a car, mam & dads of the world! They can take the bus until they are at least 22 for all of our sakes!

I think speeding is seen as a cool thing by younger people (not just guys) and that attitude needs to change!

Laws in Ireland are too lenient when it comes to road offences IMHO. That could be changed as well, to send a very clear message in the future.

Bruthal

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

S
To say they're male so its inbuilt is ridiculous.

Is it? Are all young wreckless male drivers killed off, or is it that they develop some cop on when they get older, and drive sensibly then?

They're just stupid stupid people who will gladly kill themselves, their mates and anyone else on the road because they're too stupid to drive properly.

They wont gladly kill themselves or others. Its a young male thing to believe that it wont happen to them. If they do kill others and survive, they wont in any way be glad about it.

Bruthal

squod wrote: »

Disagree. Fully intend putting my kids in a big volvo when they choose to drive.

Maybe they will end up in a squod car

Wabbit Ears

Ive seen some adverts on UK TV for cheaper car insurance if they are allowed to fit a tracking device of sorts. Perhaps this should be mandatory for all young drivers?

nlgbbbblth

Proper media reporting of crashes would help.

- Likely cause
- Speed at time of impact
- Whether alcohol was involved
- Whether seat belts were worn
- Detail of injuries suffered

etc

Or we can continue to cover it up on the basis that "the families won't like it".

Hannibal Smith

robbie7730 wrote: »

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

S
To say they're male so its inbuilt is ridiculous.

Is it? Are all young wreckless male drivers killed off, or is it that they develop some cop on when they get older, and drive sensibly then?

They're just stupid stupid people who will gladly kill themselves, their mates and anyone else on the road because they're too stupid to drive properly.

They wont gladly kill themselves or others. Its a young male thing to believe that it wont happen to them. If they do kill others and survive, they wont in any way be glad about it.

Yes, it is ridiculous. It's a way of excusing it. There are plenty of ways our instinctive compulsions try and manifest themselves, it doesn't excuse a person following them, if that compulsion is wrong or dangerous.

And yes they do gladly kill themselves or others, because by driving recklessly or dangerously you are putting your mates at risk all for a laugh, or to make yourself look good. They don't give a hoot about their mates' safety and boohooing about it later if they survive is too late. They need to engage their brains.

miamee

Sorry to hear your news OP.

Like with many other problems, education is key. We should be teaching kids how to.drive when they are still in school as well as best driving practice, how to deal with different weather conditions. Obviously driver safety should play a large part as well.
As for the young guys already on our roads, really not sure how we can slow them down. Those shocking* tv ads aren't doing the trick.
(*I am a woman in my thirties finding them shocking, I don't think they have the desired effect on the target audience though)

Regarding thinking someone was great for speeding/dangerous driving - I'd think he was an idiot. I wouldn't get in the car with someone who couldn't drive properly.

dan dan

If every driver under 25 was allowed drive only small less than one litre cars.It would go somewhere towards removing a teenager driving daddys big volvo.like his testerone dictates. That would help some. The biggest problem we have on our roads is what we do not have on our roads, Law Enforcement..

We have no garda presence in Ireland ,except by appointment. We have no justice system,which recognises the concept of justice. Burglary,mugging,unsocial behaviour,Road carnage. all will be fixed by garda presence and real Justice.Not before.

Bruthal

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Yes, it is ridiculous. It's a way of excusing it.

No one is excusing it. Being young and male is the cause, not an excuse.

There are plenty of ways our instinctive compulsions try and manifest themselves, it doesn't excuse a person following them, if that compulsion is wrong or dangerous.

Ever do anything dangerous in your life? Probably not.

And yes they do gladly kill themselves or others, because by driving recklessly or dangerously you are putting your mates at risk all for a laugh, or to make yourself look good.

If they knew getting into the car on a particular day means death, I doubt they would get in.

Young males take higher risks in all aspects of life than any other section. You see that as an excuse, I see it as an established and common sense fact.

They don't give a hoot about their mates' safety and boohooing about it later if they survive is too late.

If they boohoo about it later, then they did not gladly kill them.

They need to engage their brains.

Their brains do change and engage them more, when older, hence the young male thing you say doesnt exist.

Cee-Jay-Cee

The short answer is, there is nothing we or anyone else can do. The message doesn't get through to those it needs to as they're too arrogant/thick/stupid to realise they're the ones at risk.

Milk & Honey

The pre frontal lobes in the male brain are not fully developed until the age of 25. These are the areas of the brain concerning future planning. The younger male is more inclined to take risks and think less of the future.

How about the stupid people of any age driving? The ones who weave all over the road and don't use indicators? The ones who think it's cool to merge onto a 120kph motorway doing 50? The ones who pull straight out in front of you without looking despite you doing near the speed limit? The ones who brake from nearly 120 to 0 so they can rubberneck at an accident, nearly causing one themselves? The ones who hog the overtaking lane and refuse to check their mirrors or let anyone by because they're kings/queens of the road and to hell with you if you needed to get to the hospital in a hurry?
Of all the people that have driven me nuts on the road, "young male drivers" weren't half


I'm sorry for your loss, though.

Bruthal

bluewolf wrote: »

How about the stupid people of any age driving? The ones who weave all over the road and don't use indicators? The ones who think it's cool to merge onto a 120kph motorway doing 50? The ones who pull straight out in front of you without looking despite you doing near the speed limit?

I actually believe many if not most bad drivers are in fact stupid people. And driving just happens to be where they display this stupidity in public. The merging into the 120 motorway at 50 is a prime example of this. You dont have to be a driver to work out the problem. Yet these thick people cant.

Of all the people that have driven me nuts on the road, "young male drivers" weren't half

Drivers other than boy racer drivers can do stupidly annoying things without being lethal dangerous like boy racers can be. Slow crawl along dozy drivers for example, can be very annoying.

These days the boy racers are a small percentage probably.

Light Switch

dan dan wrote: »

If every driver under 25 was allowed drive only small less than one litre cars.It would go somewhere towards removing a teenager driving daddys big volvo.like his testerone dictates. That would help some. The biggest problem we have on our roads is what we do not have on our roads, Law Enforcement..

We have no garda presence in Ireland ,except by appointment. We have no justice system,which recognises the concept of justice. Burglary,mugging,unsocial behaviour,Road carnage. all will be fixed by garda presence and real Justice.Not before.

In fairness, you could do as much damage in a Polo as you would in a Volvo.

Plus a Volvo would probably be a safer car if it were in an accident due to their size.

minidazzler

There are some restrictions on Motorcyclists about what they can and can't ride while a learner and even after being a learner, why do similar restrictions not apply to learner car drivers? Low powered cars only until a certain point.

The precedent is there.

Where To

The 'boy racer' culture is disappearing, albeit not quickly enough. Compare any town in Ireland now with what it was like ten years ago and the difference is astounding.

However, bad manners, bad habits, bad decision making, bad awareness and just plain bad driving from ALL sections of society are increasing, in my experience.

cruiser178

bluewolf wrote: »

How about the stupid people of any age driving? The ones who weave all over the road and don't use indicators? The ones who think it's cool to merge onto a 120kph motorway doing 50? The ones who pull straight out in front of you without looking despite you doing near the speed limit? The ones who brake from nearly 120 to 0 so they can rubberneck at an accident, nearly causing one themselves? The ones who hog the overtaking lane and refuse to check their mirrors or let anyone by because they're kings/queens of the road and to hell with you if you needed to get to the hospital in a hurry?
Of all the people that have driven me nuts on the road, "young male drivers" weren't half

My thoughts exactly, just last year my car was completely destroyed by an 82 year old driver whose excuse was "my leg got stuck under the peddles" my passenger was 7 months pregnant. If i was to point the finger at bad drivers, young males would not be top of my list.

KindOfIrish

dan dan wrote: »

The biggest problem we have on our roads is what we do not have on our roads, Law Enforcement..

We have no garda presence in Ireland ,except by appointment. We have no justice system,which recognises the concept of justice. Burglary,mugging,unsocial behaviour,Road carnage. all will be fixed by garda presence and real Justice.Not before.

It's amazing, how few people in Ireland understand this simple thing! Law Enforcement is an alien concept here.

mattser

It's every age. There is an epidemic of all types of drivers crashing red lights too. Gone is the day when one would be an amber gambler. Nowadays two or three more follow him/her through blatant red.
It's just another example of the arrogance and ignorance our people in latter years.

Pherekydes

robbie7730 wrote: »

Is it? Are all young wreckless male drivers killed off, or is it that they develop some cop on when they get older, and drive sensibly then?

The ones that are killed off are definitely not wreckless.

bluewolf wrote: »

How about the stupid people of any age driving? The ones who weave all over the road and don't use indicators? The ones who think it's cool to merge onto a 120kph motorway doing 50? The ones who pull straight out in front of you without looking despite you doing near the speed limit? The ones who brake from nearly 120 to 0 so they can rubberneck at an accident, nearly causing one themselves? The ones who hog the overtaking lane and refuse to check their mirrors or let anyone by because they're kings/queens of the road and to hell with you if you needed to get to the hospital in a hurry?
Of all the people that have driven me nuts on the road, "young male drivers" weren't half


I'm sorry for your loss, though.

The skill of merging is sadly lacking in this country. I was on the N4 eastbound at Woodies Lucan and I saw a car driving along the sliproad. As I got closer I slowed down to give her space to merge, but she slowed and kept slowing until she stopped (yes, stopped!) at the end of the slip road.

Another time, I was at the lights at Courtneys in Lucan. A garda van driven by a Ban Garda on a mobile made an illegal right turn. Offences, two for the price of one.

Doddery drivers, boy racers, timid drivers, arrogant van drivers, I hate 'em all.

MJ23

I hate when people say "accident". It's not an accident if a fella crashes a car that he was driving 100 mph on a narrow country road.

Hannibal Smith

robbie7730 wrote: »

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Yes, it is ridiculous. It's a way of excusing it.

No one is excusing it. Being young and male is the cause, not an excuse.

There are plenty of ways our instinctive compulsions try and manifest themselves, it doesn't excuse a person following them, if that compulsion is wrong or dangerous.

Ever do anything dangerous in your life? Probably not.

And yes they do gladly kill themselves or others, because by driving recklessly or dangerously you are putting your mates at risk all for a laugh, or to make yourself look good.

If they knew getting into the car on a particular day means death, I doubt they would get in.

Young males take higher risks in all aspects of life than any other section. You see that as an excuse, I see it as an established and common sense fact.

They don't give a hoot about their mates' safety and boohooing about it later if they survive is too late.

If they boohoo about it later, then they did not gladly kill them.

They need to engage their brains.

Their brains do change and engage them more, when older, hence the young male thing you say doesnt exist.

Driving a car dangerously is the cause....nothing else. Whatever your excuse for driving in that manner might explain why you did it but doesn't give you a get out clause.

Have I ever acted dangerously that would put my life, or anyone else's life in danger? No I haven't. I didn't know acting dangerously was a badge of honour?

If they thought getting into the car meant death, they wouldn't get in? I bet their mates families wished they never got on too! What a bizarre thing to say. So they have no idea that their driving poses a threat to anyone? So what's the thrill in doing it so? They know full well its dangerous but they're too stupid and cocky to give a crap.

They boohoo about it later, later being the operative word. At the time I'm sure they're laughing their heads off about how fast they can drive. So yea, they are gladly killing people, at the time.

So we all have to wait till they're older for their brains to engage so they stop? Yeah, you tell that to the families in arklow this morning.

You race behind a wheel you're a gormless idiot. Anyone one who's chatting on the phone, breaking red lights, you're just as stupid, but the thread was about young racers.

Jhcx

Had few boy racers pass my house with lightning speed at 2.30 this morning. Someday it will just be easier let a car roll down the hill and let them understand a car has brakes. Or just buy a speed cam or lots of flashing blue lights. Or stingers or the possiblities can go on.... Like I don't care how fast they go. It's the jet the stick on the back that just make a sh t load of noise and no speed.

up for anything

Daveysil15 wrote: »

There's not much of a boy racer culture nowadays. I rarely see the modified cars on the road anymore.

Boy Racer Syndrome doesn't reside solely in the 'cockpit' of a modified car. It is within the driver - be he a boy or a middle aged man or an old lady. It is in the mindset of the driver.

In the 70s all you had to do to achieve outward boy racer status was stick a few go faster stripes on the sides of your car.

somefeen

People don't see driving as a serious thing. The test is a waste of time, go around a roundabout, three point turn, hill start etc etc. Its a mickey mouse exam, and making people take 10 lessons before hand won't make any difference as long as that's the case.
Driving is a much more serious business than the test would have anyone believe.

To drive safely you need to be constantly taking in and assessing information. Your typical motorist probably has more to be thinking about driving through Dublin than a light aircraft pilot flying over it.
And yet who is better trained?

We should adopt the Finnish driving test system in Ireland.

jaffacakesyum

Why not raise the age for driving?

You look at the statistics. The cause of most road deaths in Ireland is from young male drivers at the wheel. If it takes raising the age of driving to 21 to make people realise that they're being idiots speeding and drink driving, then so be it.

Extreme solution that won't be very popular, I know.

shar01

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Proper media reporting of crashes would help.

- Likely cause
- Speed at time of impact
- Whether alcohol was involved
- Whether seat belts were worn
- Detail of injuries suffered

etc

Or we can continue to cover it up on the basis that "the families won't like it".

As hard as it may be for the families of those killed or injured in crashes, there needs to be an official report made available. There have been a few crashes lately where one person in the car is killed but others in it are reported as "having minor injuries".

Add to the mix the state of the road.

mikemac1

Around 2005-2006 there were plenty of boy racers in their left hand drive cars around Ireland

Techno music pumping, those dark windows and if they hit you do they even have insurance? Who knows

Long gone

Gardaí must have cracked down
Or more likely the Revenue looking for their money from these foreign regs

mikemac1

shar01 wrote: »

As hard as it may be for the families of those killed or injured in crashes, there needs to be an official report made available. There have been a few crashes lately where one person in the car is killed but others in it are reported as "having minor injuries".

Add to the mix the state of the road.

Won't happen
Families don't want to know

There was heavy fog on the N7 (maybe M7?) a few years ago, a lady drove into the back on a fire engine with lights & sirens on and died

RTÉ radio tried to discuss and a furious sister rang up demanding they stop talking. And then blamed the government/NRA about signage

We had a thread on it
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055167358

minidazzler

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Why not raise the age for driving?

You look at the statistics. The cause of most road deaths in Ireland is from young male drivers at the wheel. If it takes raising the age of driving to 21 to make people realise that they're being idiots speeding and drink driving, then so be it.

Extreme solution that won't be very popular, I know.

I'd more go for the American approach where you do Drivers Ed as part of a school curriculum in a lot of schools. Teach kids young the awareness they need and it will stick with them, older people tend to think they "should" be good at something so pretend they are.

Marsden

In Russia its now compulsory to have a built in camera looking out your front window and monitoring your driving, this should act as a deterrent but will not completely wipe out road deaths due to dangerous driving. It will eventually be stamped out when autonomous cars are fully operational on Irish roads but this is still a good few years away.

shar01

@mikemac1

Thanks for the link. I remember that incident.

You're right though about publishing accident reports. Wishful thinking on my part.

TURRICAN

This happens all pver the world every day of the week,some drunk some high some tired etc etc. it's never going to stop its just a part of life.

Hurts when it arrives on your doorstep though.

nlgbbbblth

mikemac1 wrote: »

Won't happen
Families don't want to know

There was heavy fog on the N7 (maybe M7?) a few years ago, a lady drove into the back on a fire engine with lights & sirens on and died

RTÉ radio tried to discuss and a furious sister rang up demanding they stop talking. And then blamed the government/NRA about signage

We had a thread on it
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055167358

The most recent message (headed up "IN MY OPINION") on her Gone Too Soon page rightly pulls no punches.

Bruthal

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

?

If they thought getting into the car meant death, they wouldn't get in? I bet their mates families wished they never got on too! What a bizarre thing to say.

You dont get that simple statement?

They get into the car, and no chance do they think they will be in a crash. This contradicts you sayng they are happy to kill others.

You dont grasp that?? As in they are young males, will take higher risks than the average person. Every time you get into a car there is a risk also, but again, you wont grasp why I say that either.

You dont believe young males take more risks by virtue of being young males. Im stating this not as as excuse, but a fact of life. At least try to grasp that part.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

freedominacup

minidazzler wrote: »

Low powered cars only until a certain point.

The precedent is there.

What is that point? There are plenty of guys in their late teens and early twenties who I would be much happier to see in charge of highly powered cars than some older people. Is your point based on ability or experience? How do you measure experience? I was covering north of 60,000 miles per year in my late teens and early twenties which would have equated to roughly 5 years of the average drivers experience based on miles covered per year I was driving. I saw at least one stupid/dangerous thing per day when driving for work and in my experience middle-aged men in fairly high powered cars were as likely as anyone to be the ones behaving stupidly. Their number one action was to ignore right-hand indicators and attempt to overtake a vechicle turning right. Happened me once a week at least. What saves them from becoming a fatality is the strongly built high powered car they are driving.

Older drivers and some women drivers were likely to be the cause of accidents on the main roads before the motorway network was established and are still a problem on routes like the N25, and the routes between Waterford and Limerick. They often show no regard for other users, refuse to travel at a reasonable speed and drive in a manner that makes overtaking difficult. These drivers again were unlikely to become statistics despite causing accidents. Their bad driving was likely to be a cause, in fairness someone else took the risk to get past them and the ones taking the risk were unlikely to have had a gun to their head.

None of this is to condone or excuse the behaviour described by the op and may be whataboutery but young males are not the only risk group. They are however the ones most vilified. I have often wondered how badly they would fare in a measure of accidents per mile/kilometre travelled as they are highly likely to have to travel as part of their job.

Poxyshamrock

Stupid young rural male drivers.

partyatmygaff

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

I reckon people my age should so be restricted in the engine sizes they drive. The my first car was a 1 litre polo. now I'm on to a 1. 2 opel corsa.

Why? An idiot driving too fast for the conditions in a Polo isn't any safer than someone doing the same speed in a BMW M3. In fact, the traction control and better suspension, braking and grip of the bigger car makes it a lot less dangerous.

A friend of mine (Who was 27) used to drive his Polo up and down the main street of a town at 140kph. There are very few inherently dangerous cars, their drivers make them dangerous.

ejmaztec

A lot of them have joined the "hoons" in Australia, and have got their hands on bigger cars with bigger engines than they had here.

freedominacup

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Stupid young rural male drivers.

I don't think so actually. I think it's more likely to be drivers that do a lot of their mileage in built-up areas. As soon as they see a bit of open road i.e. one with no traffic in the immeadiate vicinity they put the shoe in and are unused to the speed or road conditions. Rural drivers are less likely to get excited by the sight of a road with little or no traffic on it.

the culture of deference

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Proper media reporting of crashes would help.

- Likely cause
- Speed at time of impact
- Whether alcohol was involved
- Whether seat belts were worn
- Detail of injuries suffered

etc

Or we can continue to cover it up on the basis that "the families won't like it".

All we hear on TV and the papers is some fckin priest droning on about the waste of life, some sad looking photos of the family left behind, pointless comments about how they were good lads/girls, instead of using the coverage as a way to stop more tragedy.

Light Switch wrote: »

In fairness, you could do as much damage in a Polo as you would in a Volvo.

Plus a Volvo would probably be a safer car if it were in an accident due to their size.

I was walking with the dog in my estate, large estate in palmerstown, loads of speed humps. A young boy on his own in a red polo with L plates nearly hit me on the footpath because he was texting. I was going to do something but didn't.

10 mins later he passes me again on his way out of the estate, now there are 5 in the car, all lads. The polo is nearly touching the ground with the weight and he was texting again. I think extreme measures should be used to deal with people like this.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Why? An idiot driving too fast for the conditions in a Polo isn't any safer than someone doing the same speed in a BMW M3. I

The level of control in an M3 is much better than a polo.