Getting ticket or not?

arleitiss

Hey, so before I start I will say one thing:
Don't tell me how wrong I was, how bad I am or how much of morale I lack, I know that!.

So me and friend were driving along N4, I am learner driver and yes my friend doesn't have full license, I know it's wrong!

So it was double lane + bus lane. Check point was set up on bus lane, I was driving in overtaking/right lane. As a learner I thought garda check points are 100% everyone stop, so I changed to left lane, apparently I think I indicated, garda said I didn't, well as I am a learner I didn't fight back or retaliate, I agreed I was wrong. They asked me to pull into bus lane, I did. officer came up and conversation went as follows:
Garda: You are on learners permit right?
Me: Yes.
Garda: [Asks passenger] Do you hold full license?
Passenger: No.
Garda: That's a bad start.... can I see your license please?
Me: Yes one second [gave him license]
Garda: Is that the current address you are living at?
Me: Yes.
Garda: And what is it?
Me: I told him my address.
Garda: He went to windshield, took out a notepad and started writing down all details and tax and insurance etc..
[After about 2 minutes]
Garda: [He gave me my license back]...There you go.
Me: Thanks.
Garda: He kept writing stuff down, including plate number.
Me: Sorry, can I ask you something?
Garda: Yes?
Me: At what point exactly I didn't indicate?
Garda: You were driving in overtaking lane, then changed lane without indicating.
Me: I thought this is check point where everyone is supposed to be stopped.
Garda: Well, were you given instructions?
Me: No.
Garda: Well, should've proceeded then.
Me: Oh.
Garda: You aren't really qualified driving without being accompanied.
Me: Yes I understand that, sorry....
Garda: Alright you can go, don't forget the seatbelt.


And I drove off.

So as I said, don't bash me for being unacompanied, I know it's wrong and I shouldn't do it.

So he didn't mention any fines or tickets, or court, literally not even once that word was there.
So at the moment I am set up and really waiting for like a court summon or something for un-accompanied driving + fines.

But I really hope I will just get like 80 euro fine and 2 points at worst thats what I hope for, as I agree I guess I deserved it.

So any other options? Any chance it was just taking details down?

martyc5674

Forget about the whole thing

arleitiss

martyc5674 wrote: »

Forget about the whole thing

Really? I mean seriously when there is a chance I can get like fined for 1000 euro (not saying it's not fair) but not quite easy to forget.

TestTransmission

You should of just asked him.

arleitiss

TestTransmission wrote: »

You should of just asked him.

He seemed to be in quite a hurry.

Shakti

Unlikely you'll get a ticket, don't worry about it.

arleitiss

Shakti wrote: »

Unlikely you'll get a ticket, don't worry about it.

The point that makes me think I am getting ticket or even better a court summon is that he asked about my address to many times.

Shakti

checking that the name and address on your licence corresponds with the insurance on the vehicle

arleitiss

Shakti wrote: »

checking that the name and address on your licence corresponds with the insurance on the vehicle

Well first thing he did of all was after I called out an address he literally rushed to insurance disc and started shining light at it.

Shakti

that's the big one next is tax followed by nct (+10yr), you have all three no?

challengemaster

Afaik there's no fixed penalty for driving unaccompanied so if you are getting anything, it will be a summons. Time will tell.

Shakti

nope don't buy it otherwise Garda couldn't/wouldn't have let the op continue to drive unaccompanied when the Garda in question let the op continue on their way

arleitiss

Shakti wrote: »

that's the big one next is tax followed by nct (+10yr), you have all three no?

Insurance, Tax, NCT are till 2013 may all.

CiniO

arleitiss wrote: »

Don't tell me how wrong I was, how bad I am or how much of morale I lack, I know that!.

(...)

So as I said, don't bash me for being unacompanied, I know it's wrong and I shouldn't do it.

As you see no one is bashing you for driving unacompanied.
But you should get a proper morale on stopping for a checkpoint while there was no one stopping you.
That's definitely the funniest thing I've heard today, and I must admit I've never heard anyone done it before.

That reminds me of a little conversation my friend had on ryanair checking window. Looked something like that...

My friend put his check-in bag onto the scale and it shows 17.2kg. (limit is 15. Lady takes his reservation number and proseeds to print the luggage receipt and sticker.
Then my friend asks her: - Is this luggage not too heavy by any chance?
She looks at the scale and answers: -That's right. In that case it's going to 26.50 euro extra. Are you paying cash or credit card??
We were stanging behing him and literally started laughing ROTFL.



PS - I honestly doubt you will get any fine. I'm sure the guard had a good laugh anyway that unaccompanied learner stopped for roadcheck on his own initiative.

Shakti

arleitiss wrote: »

Insurance, Tax, NCT are till 2013 may all.

good for you next apply for your test it's a piece of piss

Stheno

challengemaster wrote: »

Afaik there's no fixed penalty for driving unaccompanied so if you are getting anything, it will be a summons. Time will tell.

Up to €1000 fine if summonsed to court, as per Road Traffic Act 2002.

The cop has enough info to issue a summons.

arleitiss

oh well after today I am definetely gonna speed up my application for full test. I literally feel like having a huge red mark over my car telling garda I am there.

I heard before to act as polite as possible so I tried to do so.
By the way another thing that happened there on spot:
Garda pulled a a bus over, bus rolled over the garda blue beacon/light which are laid on ground, it exploded and all garda officers suddenly started rushing everyone through. I wonder will bus driver be charged for driving and bashing the beacon.

Guess morale of this is:
1) Get full license to remove red mark off me.
2) Don't stop if not asked to stop.

martyc5674

He would have told you if he was issuing a summons/ fining you.
Most guards are sound and he realises you didn't indicate as u were nervous about checkpoint.
Forget about it... Nothing will cone of it.
Marty.

Henry Ford III

martyc5674 wrote: »

He would have told you if he was issuing a summons/ fining you...

He has no obligation to do so.

djimi

Reading that is after really angering me. What the hell is wrong with the Gardai that they dont feel they should be upholding the law? He just let an unlicensed driver drive away from a checkpoint for christ sake. It defies belief.

Im not having a go at the OP; its just one of my pet hates that the Gardai dont enforce learner driving laws. Makes me wonder why we bother having a driving test if anyone an effectively drive with no consequence having only taken a multiple choice exam.

martyc5674

Henry Ford III wrote: »

martyc5674 wrote: »

He would have told you if he was issuing a summons/ fining you...

He has no obligation to do so.

Maybe the case but most are decent enough and are upfront about the next steps.
In my opinion he didn't say either way just to put a little doubt/fear into the OP about his miss doings.

If it were to go to court the guard would be in trouble for letting him drive away unaccompanied...the guard knows this.

You've nothing to worry about.
Marty.

650Ginge

Freedom of speech, still exist on public Internet forums???

Anyway you will definitely hear more.

Shakti

djimi wrote: »

Reading that is after really angering me. What the hell is wrong with the Gardai that they dont feel they should be upholding the law? He just let an unlicensed driver drive away from a checkpoint for christ sake. It defies belief.

Im not having a go at the OP; its just one of my pet hates that the Gardai dont enforce learner driving laws. Makes me wonder why we bother having a driving test if anyone an effectively drive with no consequence having only taken a multiple choice exam.

I think the Garda made the right choice regarding a blatantly conscientious driver. That law is clearly unfair and discriminatory and considering a learner driver can fail their test then drive off with a wave and a 'better luck next time' unaccompanied by necessity makes it transparently so.

Henry Ford III

Shakti wrote: »

I think the Garda made the right choice regarding a blatantly conscientious driver. That law is clearly unfair and discriminatory and considering a learner driver can fail their test then drive off with a wave and a 'better luck next time' unaccompanied by necessity makes it transparently so.

Nonsense.

OP knows the legals on this, and chooses to simply ignore them. That's not blatantly conscientous, that's blatantly illegal.

The law is what it is. Whilst we mightn't agree with it we're still obliged to obey it.

MrDerp

You have no way of knowing the outcome based on the sequence of events with the Garda. It could go either way.

A buddy of mine with an unusual last name was once pulled for speeding. Upon checking his license the Garda exclaimed 'oh! Are you anything to so and so?' etc. turned out the guard was married to his fathers first cousin. They chatted away about family members etc and had a laugh. At the end of it all the Garda says there you go now and gave him the ticket (pre points days)

OP, save up some money in case you get fined. If you don't, go on holiday with the money

dieselbug

If it were to go to court the guard would be in trouble for letting him drive away unaccompanied...the guard knows this.

I agree.
If the Garda intended to follow this through he would not have allowed you to continue without a qualified driver.

I saw a similar case where the drivers mother challanged the Garda on the morning of the case in the courthouse. There was a lot of rushing about and the case was dropped before it could be heard and this guy was driving without insurance. But he was allowed to continue on his way.

djimi

Shakti wrote: »

I think the Garda made the right choice regarding a blatantly conscientious driver. That law is clearly unfair and discriminatory and considering a learner driver can fail their test then drive off with a wave and a 'better luck next time' unaccompanied by necessity makes it transparently so.

I dont care how conscientious the OP was; the bottom line is that they are a learner and as such do not hold a drivers license and have no legal right to drive on the road unsupervised. The law is not unfair to anyone.

Shakti

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Nonsense.

OP knows the legals on this, and chooses to simply ignore them. That's not blatantly conscientous, that's blatantly illegal.

The law is what it is. Whilst we mightn't agree with it we're still obliged to obey it.

"If a law is unjust, a (hu)man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Jefferson

Shakti

djimi wrote: »

I dont care how conscientious the OP was; the bottom line is that they are a learner and as such do not hold a drivers license and have no legal right to drive on the road unsupervised. The law is not unfair to anyone.

Tell that to learner female drivers as a quick visit and number crunch at the RSA statistics site will demonstrate.

Henry Ford III

Shakti wrote: »

"If a law is unjust, a (hu)man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Jefferson

How many penalty points did he get?

djimi

Shakti wrote: »

Tell that to learner female drivers as a quick visit and number crunch at the RSA statistics site will demonstrate.

What point are you trying to make exactly? Are you trying to argue that someone who hasnt passed a driving test should have the same rights to drive on the road as a fully licensed driver?

the culture of deference

djimi wrote: »

I dont care how conscientious the OP was; the bottom line is that they are a learner and as such do not hold a drivers license and have no legal right to drive on the road unsupervised. The law is not unfair to anyone.

Why did the garda let him go. The OP was not qualified to be in control of a car. The garda should have impounded your car. Imagine the outcry if you had caused an accident afterwards.

Shakti

djimi wrote: »

What point are you trying to make exactly? Are you trying to argue that someone who hasnt passed a driving test should have the same rights to drive on the road as a fully licensed driver?

The law makes it harder for learner drivers to gain experience driving while it is experience that makes drivers capable and courtesy which makes them safer the OP demonstrated both. I think the current system supports and encourages the thinking that a full licence is a ticket to privilege instead of the acknowledgement of a drivers capabilities which it should be.

_Kaiser_

djimi wrote: »

What point are you trying to make exactly? Are you trying to argue that someone who hasnt passed a driving test should have the same rights to drive on the road as a fully licensed driver?

To be honest (although I agree in principle with the point you're trying to make), given the piss-poor standard of driving from many/most? "fully-licensed" drivers, combined with extremely lax it-depends-who-you-get (as in this case) enforcement, I think I'd rather have someone like the OP who's more acutely aware of the "rules" (such as they are!) and comes across as very genuine and conscientious on the road than some idiot in a "flash" german saloon who got his license in the cornflakes box amnesty

djimi

Shakti wrote: »

The law makes it harder for learner drivers to gain experience driving while it is experience that makes drivers capable and courtesy which makes them safer the OP demonstrated both. I think the current system supports and encourages the thinking that a full licence is a ticket to privilege instead of the acknowledgement of a drivers capabilities which it should be.

What would your alternative be? The current system allows learners to either drive accompanied by a fully licensed driver, or with a driving school. You cant seriously be suggesting that learners should be allowed out on the road unsupervised are you?

djimi

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

To be honest (although I agree in principle with the point you're trying to make), given the piss-poor standard of driving from many/most? "fully-licensed" drivers, combined with extremely lax it-depends-who-you-get (as in this case) enforcement, I think I'd rather have someone like the OP who's more acutely aware of the "rules" (such as they are!) and comes across as very genuine and conscientious on the road than some idiot in a "flash" german saloon who got his license in the cornflakes box amnesty

So youd sooner have someone on the road who has never passed their test but thinks that they are a good driver (despite the fact that in the case of the OP they pulled across lanes of a dual carraigeway without indicating...) rather than someone who has at least demonstrated that they have the necessary level of ability to pass the driving test?

Youre not wrong in saying that there are many fully licensed drivers who are of an awful standard, but that arguement seems to come up when defending learners and honestly I dont see how it is of any relevance? I agree that its an issue that needs to be tackled, but its a totally seperate issue and has no bearing on how we should view the law relating to learner drivers.

As for drivers on an amnesty license; well Im sure we all know that that is just a nonsense situation, but again its a totally seperate issue.

Shakti

I think we are all quite aware of the current system djimi, TBH I don't care if they have a full licence or not I'd be happy with them driving safely with due regard and courtesy to other road users (and not just car drivers). Question is can you legislate for that? well if you can it isn't by discouraging and discriminating against people who wish to learn.

_Kaiser_

djimi wrote: »

So youd sooner have someone on the road who has never passed their test but thinks that they are a good driver (despite the fact that in the case of the OP they pulled across lanes of a dual carraigeway without indicating...) rather than someone who has at least demonstrated that they have the necessary level of ability to pass the driving test?

I've seen worse on a dual carriageway/motorway/any road really

As for the standard of the test, I know it's changed somewhat these days, but when I did it, it wasn't exactly hard. I spent most of the time chatting with the tester (which he initiated) than anything else. However since then I've also done about 200,000 km in the last 4 and a half years in all weather/conditions/road types so I think that (while I'm not a perfect driver either), I think that experience counts for a lot more than a piece of paper (which doesn't even cover motorway driving, parking, night-time driving etc etc)

Youre not wrong in saying that there are many fully licensed drivers who are of an awful standard, but that arguement seems to come up when defending learners and honestly I dont see how it is of any relevance? I agree that its an issue that needs to be tackled, but its a totally seperate issue and has no bearing on how we should view the law relating to learner drivers.

Again in theory I agree with you completely, but the facts are that here in Ireland we don't really go by law or common sense most of the time - it's more the "ah shure it'll be grand" and (as I mentioned) the it-depends-who-you-get approach to everything.

In theory for example the Gardai would be a competent, professional police force interested in enforcing all of our traffic laws, not just racking up the stats for "speeders" doing 125 on a motorway. I'd much rather see them pulling people for driving around in the dark/poor visibility with no lights on for example, or tailgaters, or idiots dawdling along at 60 km/h on a 100 km/h N-road, oblivious or just not caring about the line of traffic behind them, despite the nice wide hard shoulder to their left, or clowns driving all the way down the motorway in the outside lane etc etc

Besides, even the Gardai themselves get to drive around unqualified ("on chief's permission" they call it), breaking lights/abandoning the car anywhere just to get into the chipper in Blanch, and/or with phones plastered to their ear so if it's good enough for them... :rolleyes: (and no I don't buy for a second that the average cop is somehow immune to the distracting effects of a mobile phone that the rest of us can be prosecuted for)

So while I do agree with your point, given the reality of where we are, I'd rather the OP on the road than any of the above examples myself

ljpg

martyc5674 wrote: »

He would have told you if he was issuing a summons/ fining you.
Most guards are sound and he realises you didn't indicate as u were nervous about checkpoint.
Forget about it... Nothing will cone of it.
Marty.

would'nt be so sure,i was with a work mate who was driving on the phone and stopped by the garda,the garda asked him all the usual,checked the insurance and tax and sent us on our way,HE NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT THE PHONE,a couple of days later he got his points and fine in the post for a mobile phone offence.

djimi

Shakti wrote: »

I think we are all quite aware of the current system djimi, TBH I don't care if they have a full licence or not I'd be happy with them driving safely with due regard and courtesy to other road users (and not just car drivers). Question is can you legislate for that? well if you can it isn't by discouraging and discriminating against people who wish to learn.

You legislate for it by assuring that people have proven they are of a necessary standard before they are allowed to drive on their own. Im not suggesting that all learers are terrible drivers, and Im not suggesting that all those on full licenses are saints, but the difference is that at least those on a full license have proven themselves capable.

A learner could be anyone from Johnny who has been driving for two years and is perfectly capable, to Mary who has just turned 17, has never sat behind the wheel of a car before and passed the theory test by learning off a book and getting some answers correct in a multiple choice exam. Its the likes of Mary that are the reason why learners cannot be allowed to drive unaccompanied. There is no way of telling how experienced a learner is; the only way of showing that a driver is capable is for them to pass the test, and until they do in the eyes of the law they must be seen as complete novices with zero experience rather than someone who is ready to pass the test. The risk in letting a complete novice loose on the road unaccompanied is too great to take a chance, and that is why I am so annoyed when I see the Gardai take such a relaxed attitude towards it. The Garda that pulled over the OP has no idea how experienced they are; they just saw a learner demonstrate their inexperience by committing a driving offense and they still let them drive away.

djimi

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

So while I do agree with your point, given the reality of where we are, I'd rather the OP on the road than any of the above examples myself

Id rather see them all dealt with if Im honest; there is no "lesser of two evils" here. Im not trying to say that Gardai should be pulling over and checking every car on the road that has an L plate, of course they havent got the resources for that. But in the case of someone like the OP where the Garda has pulled them over and it has turned out that they are not licensed then they should not be allowed to drive off. In my mind its no different to a Garda pulling someone over, discovering that they are drunk, and letting them drive off with a warning telling them to take it easy. Ive seen learners who are every bit as dangerous on the road as someone who has had a few drinks in them.

arleitiss

Update:
Just got a ticket in mail. 80 Euro.
Not saying I didn't deserve it, I am just glad not the court summon. Will I get points as well? it doesn't say anything about that.
Also is 28 days from the date of getting letter or from date of when the garda stopped me?
Also shows to many of you that officer isn't supposed to say, he can just send

Guess that's a lesson for me, deserved it as I did indeed break rule by not changing lane indicating.

TestTransmission

arleitiss wrote: »

Update:
Just got a ticket in mail. 80 Euro.
Not saying I didn't deserve it, I am just glad not the court summon. Will I get points as well? it doesn't say anything about that.
Also is 28 days from the date of getting letter or from date of when the garda stopped me?
Also shows to many of you that officer isn't supposed to say, he can just send

Guess that's a lesson for me, deserved it as I did indeed break rule by not changing lane indicating.

You get points aswell, what does the fine say?28 days from getting the letter if I recall correctly.

arleitiss

TestTransmission wrote: »

You get points aswell, what does the fine say?28 days from getting the letter if I recall correctly.

oh yeah, thanks.

ghogie91

Nothing to worry about, no one died

Henry Ford III

What was the offence? I'm slightly confused by all this. Was it driving unaccompanied, or the cutting across lane(s) without indicating move?

I wonder will the OP's insurer need to be told come renewal time? I assume so.

ljpg

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What was the offence? I'm slightly confused by all this. Was it driving unaccompanied, or the cutting across lane(s) without indicating move?

I wonder will the OP's insurer need to be told come renewal time? I assume so.

if you get points your meant to inform your insurer straight away.

Tigger

Stheno wrote: »

Up to €1000 fine if summonsed to court, as per Road Traffic Act 2002.

The cop has enough info to issue a summons.

will you stop
your interperatation of the rotr is wrong at nearly every turn
no need to scare the lad

arleitiss

So I have to let my insurance know I got penalty points? I thought it's all automated and they will see it?

Tigger

no if you are awarded points you let them know
but i don't think they can go on a learner permit so you will get them with the lisence (if you are due them )

ironclaw

Do you not have to be issued a ticket when stopped if you are to expect a summons/fines/points? Akin to a receipt?